I feel abandoned by men, what has caused so much anger?

helloiseeyou2020 · 2025-02-03T23:28:19+00:00

First, and foremost, and most importantly... I'm truly sorry for what you've experienced. It is a travesty and I hope you're well on your path to healing. Such threats in your DMs are a lesser wound but still unacceptable - a fact so obvious that typing it at all feels trite.

Second. If you want to truly understand why so manyen have a deeply cynical skepticism toward feminism and internet feminists in particular, go read your own r/feminism post where you tried to start a dialogue. Read the things they say about men. In particular, read the things that they say about men's issues and the snide, acidic language they use to describe the idea of taking them seriously. Simply not opening the lines of communication in a combative and hostile way is described as "infantilizing".

Then imagine yourself for a moment a a discarded, socially awkward, mentally ill man who cannot be a industrious provider nor a more collegial university adonis or any of the other incredibly narrow archetypes of men that are treated with any value by their peers individually or society more broadly. Really put yourself in the shoes of someone with no support from family, friends, love, career, society or government. Someone

Really, truly imagine yourself as that person, and imagine staring down decades more of life to trudge through before your body finally gives you the kindness of dying younger

Then reread that thread again.

Then write to me here:

What did that feel like?

Karmaze · 2025-02-03T19:22:52+00:00

Feminist efforts to reform masculinity have been a huge, maladaptive, destructive mistake.

The presentation is that we're all socialized to be these monsters that have to be fixed, but the problem is for a lot of us that moves us to a place where the lack of confidence, self-esteem, assertiveness, etc become real problems and it hinders our lives. And society hasn't changed one bit to value this actual movement, both romantically (socially really as it blocks friendships too) or professionally.

Punder_man · 2025-02-03T20:52:16+00:00

For me, what has caused a lot of my anger and frustration is constantly being vilified for things I have NEVER done and WILL NEVER do based on the immutable characteristics of my birth..

From a man's perspective we are constantly being bombarded from all sides telling us how "Men oppressed / continue to oppress women"
or "Men need to do better!"

or "Everything is the fault of The Patriarchy (Which is specifically gender coded to imply men are at fault)

or the entire discussion around "Toxic Masculinity" and how despite us constantly being told "Toxic Masculinity doesn't mean men are toxic!" when that is EXACTLY how it is often used..
All of this compounds to create a society that seems to be heavily anti-men..

Or how we as men are told we need to care about women's issues yet the issues we face are dismissed as "Not as bad" or "Well, those issues are caused by MEN so MEN need to fix it themselves!"

But by far the worst thing of all has to be the double standards..
Men are held to a certain standard / expectation.. yet women are often not held to the same standard at all..

Case in point, Female on Male violence..
As a man I have been brought up and conditioned that it is NEVER acceptable for me to hit a woman..
Yet there are many videos out there that show women going slap happy on a man or scratching him with her nails etc and in the comments you ALWAYS see things like: "What did HE do to DESERVE that?"
Or people will leap in to claim "Self-defense" even when it's clear the woman is the aggressor.

This of course bleeds into Domestic Violence where, thanks to feminists and their Duluth Model of Domestic Violence, male victims of domestic violence are all but impossible because their model claims that MEN are aggressors and WOMEN are victims..
Add on to this, look at how in the UK men who come forward to report domestic violence get added to the statistics under the "Violence Against Women and Girls" Statistics

How invalidating must it feel for men to know that the only way they can be counted as "Victims" of domestic violence is if they get listed under the statistics for girls / women?

So yeah.. I'm rightfully angry at a society that seems hellbent on treating me as a criminal for crimes I have never committed or ignoring the issues my gender face or even refusing to properly acknowledge that I can be a victim of violence or only doing so with the caveat of "At the hands of other men"

OGBoglord · 2025-02-03T21:19:57+00:00

Let me begin by saying that I'm so sorry that you were assaulted, and for the harassment you've received.

Its admirable that you're looking to bridge the gender divide in order to build communal support for other victims of assault, especially in today's political climate, but after reading this post I think I might understand why your efforts thus far have been met with such pushback.

In this post, you've posed a question to the subreddit: what causes the discomfort that prevents you from aiding me? The problem is that we haven't actually denied you aid - certain men did. The very question implies that we are of the same sort as those who denied you, and those who harassed you, simply because we share the same gender.

Now I have no idea what precise aid you were asking for, or why those men were unwilling or unable to help, but I do know that few people enjoy being mischaracterized; if your calls for aid felt accusatory, whether you meant them to or not, then that might explain some of the reactions.

Another possible explanation is that, although you yourself may be sympathetic, many men feel as though women in general are dismissive of men's issues (personally, I believe that all genders are conditioned to be dismissive of male vulnerability, and other men can often be the most dismissive). Those men likely wouldn't feel motivated to lend support if they didn't expect reciprocation from women.

Without knowing the details of your interactions, I can only speculate to why they've ended so poorly. Nonetheless, my advice going forward would be to temper your expectations and try not to internalize rejection. People have their own personal stressors and concerns, so if someone turns you down, it isn't necessarily because of anything you did or because they don't care about women.

Also, if you want to build a rapport with men and demonstrate that you genuinely sympathize with their struggles, I strongly suggest putting aside whatever preconceptions you may have about the nature of those struggles (what they are, why they're happening) and simply listen with an open mind. Lately, men have often been offered a sympathetic ear only to be told that all of their addressed issues are ultimately a product of misogyny, patriarchy, and men themselves - a lot of us are tired of it. This doesn't mean you have to agree with whatever theories or explanations the men you speak to assert, of course.

Anyway, if you'd like to stay and keep engaging with this community, or simply lurk from the sidelines, you're more than welcome.

johnthegreatandsad · 2025-02-03T19:45:59+00:00

There are a number of broad strokes that seem misplaced to me. I'm not confident that generalisations about every and all blokes completely support the claims you make.

That being said, one reason I am always angry is that dating is extra hard for many of us. Some women sadly feel that any and all attempts to draw attention to sexual violence towards us is 'drawing attention away from the real victims', as if our existence needs assent.

For me, it feels like there is an unexploded bomb when I talk to a potential partner because I never know if they're normal or angry at me for existing.

There also insidious assumptions about what a man ought to be. So when I have informed people I was dating I had a very low body count because of my repeated CSA the-would-be relationship has ended abruptly not long after.

This doesn't even to take into account PTSD flashbacks that can ruin your day caused by the CSA.

2025-02-03T21:23:52+00:00

I'll tell you a secret a lot of men don't want you to know I know I'm going to get torn apart and attacked for telling you this but just as many men have experienced exactly what you have. The one talking to you right now is very open about being a recent survivor and escapee of trafficking but also the fact that I and many other men have been through being raped and not by men like the narrative says for us but by women.

My inbox is always open if you want to discuss some of the things we've been through in private but I'm sorry that those monsters hurt you too, I'm sorry that anyone has to go through the soul rending experience that is rape.

Men aren't really allowed to talk about it even in therapy we get silenced, these men are hurting We also deal with conditions that people think aren't real, and things that cause us physical pain under certain conditions. There are those like me that are scared to get close to women because I have a condition that let's say I get rejected, I don't get upset with women I'll go home and cry and then immediately suffer a violent autoimmune flare up. I know it's causing it but essentially it's like my body swallows up the pain as to avoid burdening women, and once I get home I've gotten so sick that I've almost died. So now not only do you have men like me that are survivors of assault and trafficking, but these same men develop conditions that were still researching on in the medical field where we can't speak up when we're hurt because we don't want to be seen as bad and misogynistic so we swallow it and sometimes it almost kills us. Today I'm having a hard time and when I saw your post it was very triggering but I wanted to share some of my experiences with this kind of pain and create an invitation to ask me about some of these traumas that I've faced that I know some men may or may not be able to relate to. Once again I'm sorry you experienced that pain no one deserves that.

helloiseeyou2020 · 2025-02-04T01:59:28+00:00

So where's the dialogue? You haven't responded to a single comment. Not one.

Sewblon · 2025-02-03T23:09:06+00:00

I am a trans woman. But I am only out online. So, I am speaking as someone who deals with the expectations placed on men in the real world every day. But, I suspect its that most people think of rape as something that men do to women, because under the law, at least in the state of New York, you need a penis to rape. https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/rsa/rape-and-sexual-assault/what-is-rape-and-sexual-assault/

But if you look at all sexual assault, including being made to penetrate someone else without your consent, then the rates of sexual victimization and perpetration of men and women are not that different. So, I think, that men feel unjustly vilified and don't know how to express that constructively, because most people, both men and women, still don't know about this. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4062022/ https://malesurvivor.nz/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/StempleFloresMeyer2016femaleperpetators.pdf

Low-Philosopher-2354 · 2025-02-03T20:18:26+00:00

The honest answer, though not a salient one as I'm kind of tired is that feminism absolutely ruined my perception of women and the horrible acts it's committed make every attempt like yours feel like a cruel joke in the face of the reality I experienced.

The gaslighting, demonization and factually incorrect assertions that stem from feminism's unififying theory has turned me away from advocating for women at all since every attempt to do so outside of that shitty feminist framework is met with accusations of misogyny, or some desire to hold women down.

If this truly interests you then there are a few posts that detail how difficult feminism makes men's lives, and the ways in which it perpetuates the demonization I mentioned earlier.

Incidentally, I believe that's a large part of what's causing this anger. Feminism has quite the hand in creating and perpetuating advantages for women while making seemingly every effort to leave men as second class citizens serving women's wants without even a single consideration for themselves. I know that's how I was conditioned, at least.

You might find people more receptive if you were willing to ditch the whole patriarchy idea, as it's incredibly frustrating how little that word actually means to say nothing of how "patriarchy" as in the feminist usage is completely unproven and always has been as far as I can tell. This is a problem with a lot of feminism, actually.

Claims are simply made, there's no scrutiny applied to them and no research intended to find a result aside from the one desired. It's effectively doctored to serve an agenda. I recall someone in this sub posting about the fact that domestically abused men are often recorded as women in statistics, further "proving" that more initiatives to protect women are needed and pushing men further down.

On a personal level, I find it hard to believe that any woman would give up the advantages given to them by feminism, and so I suspect you of paying lip service to the idea of men having issues without actually doing anything about it, or even worse blaming it on "patriarchy" or men themselves and throwing your hands in the air.

I cannot stress enough how much damage was dealt to me by feminism and the attitude towards men that it causes, and that's a lot more than just discomfort. I simply cannot coexist with feminism in the long term. Though I do appreciate you trying, if it's earnest.

EDIT: I want you to explain this post in detail and tell me how it isn't pure sexism especially as you call insulting women "punching down" and call men "privileged" and I truly doubt you hold yourself to that same standard when it comes to men. You come across as just another person who wants to use men for your purposes and is faking sympathy to do it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Feminism/comments/1i5lyih/comment/m85p47c/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

eldred2 · 2025-02-03T23:31:44+00:00

You have described what life is like for most men when interacting with women. Women tend to judge all of us based on the actions of the worst of us. Then when we try to point that out, we are called "incel" and told that we're more dangerous than a bear.

jojoblogs · 2025-02-03T23:49:39+00:00

I don’t know what the psychological phenomenon is called, but if you want someone to act a certain way one of the best ways to do is to reinforce that they already have that quality, and then that person will always strive to live up to that if they take it on board.

So you might start telling your 7 year old how “responsible” you think they are and they’ll grow up always trying to live up to that.

Whereas if you tell a child “you always such a screw up”, then they’ll use that to rationalise poor decisions, risk taking, etc.

You tell a bunch of young men and boys they’re problematic they’ll make sure they live up to it.

Butter_the_Garde · 2025-02-03T22:14:00+00:00

we can’t continually break away from discussion with men while they trample on our rights and freedoms.

This you?

Men collectively trample on your rights and freedoms?

ThatQueerWerewolf · 2025-02-03T21:37:54+00:00

First of all, I'm sorry for everything you've gone through. Nobody deserves that.

What's interesting about your post is that I feel the exact same way about women. Take away the first two paragraphs about sexual assault, and I could have written this with the roles reversed, word for word.

Women take their anger out on me constantly. I can't go a day without hearing a "joke" or a serious comment about how horrible men in general are. And any time I try to bring up a male issue or point out something that men struggle with, it somehow gets turned into a competition over who has it worse, or a woman uses twisted logic to victim blame and say this is all men's fault anyway. I'm expected to just let the women around me berate me and dismiss my hardships every day.

A coworker of mine was violently attacked outside of work. He was hit in the face with a metal pipe and mugged. Upon seeing the mark on his face and hearing what had happened, all my female coworker could think to say was "That's so scary! Could you imagine if he had been a woman?"

Let that sink in. A man was brutally attacked, which is statistically far more likely to happen to men than women, and a woman whom I respect and admire dismissed the very real pain this man was experiencing to focus on the hypothetical pain of a woman.

I. See. This. Shit. Constantly.

I have always cared about and been outspoken about female issues. Women do go through a lot, and I want to help. But I feel like I'm supposed to give all this empathy to women who give no empathy to men.

I strongly believe in gender equality, but it's hard to accept the mainstream narrative that women have it hard while men oppress them and have it easy when we are so much more likely to commit suicide, experience homelessness (despite so many shelters existing only for women and children), be imprisoned, experience police brutality (the gender gap is bigger than the race gap), be the victim of a violent crime, and so much more. It's hard to accept that men are supposedly coddled and lifted up in society, when it actually feels like being male means having ruthless accountability and accepting that the world doesn't give a fuck about your feelings. Being male means sucking it up and just dealing, because you certainly can't cry to people about your problems.

Women who weren't screamed at by adults for crying when they were 6 years old have the audacity to make fun of men (or blame them) for being emotionally stunted or having "fragile masculinity." The lack of empathy and victim blaming is never ending. And even when women claim to care about what men go through, I almost never see them doing anything about it other than mentioning it during an argument to prove that Feminists care about men. I see male Feminists promoting female causes all the time, but not the other way around.

And honestly, though I'm not justifying this at all, I think a lot of the reason we're seeing an increasing number of men getting angry and lashing out at women promoting feminist causes is because of this. Because men (especially in recent years) have been hit with so much blame, so many criticisms, and such a lack of empathy towards them just for existing as male.

Personally, I view men and women as being two sides of the same coin. If one gender has a problem, the other probably has an equal opposite problem. The sooner we can stop making gender issues into a competition, the sooner we can work together and maybe try to get out of this prison together.

I wish I had some advice for you, but I really don't. Unfortunately I foresee men and women being at each other's throats for years to come. Best of luck to you.

OnePair1 · 2025-02-03T19:35:52+00:00

For context, I’m a victim of rape and multiple other assaults. As a method of healing, I’m attempting to advocate and educate on preventative measure and calling for communal help to keep each other safe.

This sounds nice and very general yet says nothing about what you actually do.

Taking this on has placed me as a target for rape threats, anger and frustration, both online and in person.

I am terribly sorry, no one should be threatened in such ways, it isn't decent people doing it.

I'm sorry that so many men feel so shunned. I feel like I’ve become a constant outlet for men who feel abandoned to release their frustration on. I try to meditate these situations and handle them with kindness and empathy but it hurts.

This needs to be sperated better from the above as I cannot tell if victims are threatening you or men just vent to you.

I hear your anger, I want to help. The common sentiment I get when asking for advocacy is ‘Why should I care about your issues, you don’t care about mine’. My answer is that at least, I, the individual, do care.

Again too general, how are you asking these men to be advocates?

My intention is to open up healthy dialogue about your perspective, fears and hesitation to aiding me. Please express what’s caused your discomfort. I’ll try to answer with insights in responses too if you have any questions about my experiences and perspectives.

I don't have any issues with hating anybody, it's what are you asking for as aid. What is the rhetoric you are using, do you see female perpetrators and predators and how do you handle that. It's about equal action and responsibility under the law as well as societally.

Family_First_TTC · 2025-02-04T01:18:04+00:00

I'm going to assume that you mean good with this post, but what you said here gives me pause:

I’m upset, I’m very sad that men feel so guarded and individualistic. That empathy is a luxury, you feel you can’t afford.

In that statement, you say *you're* sad men feel guarded and individualistic.

Why do you feel sad about it, and do all men you encounter feel the same way? If men don't feel the same way, how can you say you're empathizing with them?

Similarly, when you say men "feel (they) can't afford" empathy, why are you leading with judgment about what men can bear, instead of curiosity about their existence?

ZealousidealCrazy393 · 2025-02-03T21:06:43+00:00

I am sorry about the things you've experienced. I admire your willingness to talk about it and advocate, even in the face of such ugliness as you've been subjected to.

A lot of us feel shunned and hurt, demonized and unwanted. For some, they aren't interested in constructive dialog. Expressing pain is their only goal. You aren't obligated to be a punching bag for others to take their frustrations out on. For a lot of men, the reason they are so angry is because they have been treated like a punching bag. We all need to find ways to stop punching.

If you truly care about men and their issues, I sincerely appreciate that. Expressing care for men's issues can come at a cost.

Here are some things that cause me discomfort or resentment as a man:

- Being mocked and dismissed. Ever since I was a boy, trying to express hurt about things like misandry in the culture led to everyone around me waving me off and treating me like I was broken for feeling hurt. This taught me early on that males and females are treated differently when they express hurt and this is where I began feeling isolated and resentful. The message was that men's identity, men's safety, men's feelings don't matter. This led many boys, myself included, to feeling alienated from masculinity and afraid to express it or embody it.

- Being demonized. I understand that women experience real fear for their safety. But when it comes to women's safety issues, the root of the problem is never seen to actually be issues like rape or violence, but rather men in general. Rape and violence are treated as a byproduct of having men around. Most conversations about women's issues are centered around the idea that it is men who are to blame for rape, not rapists. It's men who are to be blamed for abuse, not abusers. We get treated like we're a threat that needs to be dealt with by reconfiguring masculinity or segregating us. This is immensely hurtful and can lead to anger, identity issues, and hatred.

- Being assaulted and mutilated. I was probably about ten years old when I learned what circumcision actually was and that it had been done to me. I knew intuitively it was wrong but I had no vocabulary to express it. I felt worthless, exposed, and like I had no control over my body. That feeling of having no value and no agency is what later led to me having no real emotional response to being sexually assaulted by women in my teens and twenties when they would grab me or grind on me without my consent. I was used to feeling like an object whose only purpose was to please others, and I had to do a lot of emotional work to get out of feeling like that.

My questions for you:

- Why do you say you feel abandoned by men? Are you speaking solely from the experience of trying to open this dialog, or are you speaking more generally like all men are avoiding you?

- What specifically do you want from men in your goals of trying to communally create safety?

- Why do you think people are having such incredibly aggressive and threatening reactions to what you're doing?

2025-02-03T22:43:20+00:00

I've been raped by a woman.

Women who have been raped by men seem to have far far FAR less sympathy for me than I do for them.

Simples.

SoftGirlLover · 2025-02-03T23:44:30+00:00

I just want to ask a cute girl out, without the threat of public humiliation or rape charges. And maybe get married without the threat of divorce and child support completely ruining my life.

jessi387 · 2025-02-03T20:53:47+00:00

The only time someone comes knocking at our door is when someone wants something from us….. exhibit A

Rucs3 · 2025-02-04T01:43:26+00:00

if your method of healing is causing you distress maybe it's not a good method. As someone who was personally targeted by rape, actually being some kind of activist mightnot be healthy for you. If activism is your healing process then it means you still have not settled this issue inside yourself, so it's a very risky thing to deal with said subject while you have not moved beyond it.

Not everyone needs to be an activist, you can just agree with a philosophy. Being an activist without the patience for it, or in your case, the mental health will not help anyone, worse in your case, it will not help you, instead it might hurt you.

About your post itself it's hard to give an answer because it's so vague. You don't explain exactly what you do. Of course no thing you do justified getting threats, but we don't know if your method might be problematic otherwise for the many men who do not threathen you.

personally I just invite you to do the following things if you want to understand men's grievances

Try to notice the way many woman act like men's issues is a zero sum game. Sometimes, men's issues are mentioned on their own, not as a response to woman's issues, and still many woman take it as men trying to rob attention from woman's issues. Seriously, pay attention, so many times the mere mention of men's issues will activate this zero sum game mentality. To the point they will actually downplay men's problems even when men who initiated the discussion where not downplaying woman's problems when they brought up theirs
Women say men should not invalidate women's experiences, but a lot of the times women who identify as feminists invalidate a men sharing his experiences. Try to pay attention those instances. A lot of times a guy shares his experiences just for a woman to say "hmm no this probably never happend, you made it up, or maybe actually you are the villain and that's why this happend to you"
there is a insidious mentality where taking jabs at men in general is considered "punching up", and any men who feel even the slightest annoyance in it are istantly considered bad men, no, they cannot simply dislike some behaviour, if they do they are bad man, no nuance to it. Not even a teenager are forgiven, instead reasonably expect that a 13 years old might not react maturely about "all men are shit" posts, they still believe this 13 years old is actually a bad person for feeling annoyed.
In general there is a lack of nuance... I consider myself a feminist, many times I feel like I agree 99% with a woman's view, but this 1% I disagree with is enough for them to label me like a terrible person, there is no need to actually examine someone's action if they are a men, disagreeing with you on one thing is enough to chalk you up as a bad person. Women in general throw around acussations of someone being a incel or even a rapist willy nilly. Im not talking about disagreeing with something vital like "rape is bad", disagreeing with something minor or bland is enough to be villified even if you otherwise support feminism or equal rights.

Excellent_You5494 · 2025-02-03T22:19:16+00:00

Are you advocating for multiple adults in classrooms where there's a pandemic of female on male rape against children?

Are you advocating for men to use the buddy system?

For men to have each other's backs?

Do you tell the people you advocate to that men, masculinity, etc, are threats they need to watch, while ignoring the female perpetrators of the same crimes, which some data proports to be much more equal outside biased feminist sources?

Do you promote exclusive spaces for men, safe spaces from women, things that existed before the 90s?

Are you aware that, by naming yourself a feminist, you have labeled you're as part of the group that has hurt, scarred, and even killed men both directly and indirectly?

Feminism isn’t some all encompassing evil, like feminists say patriarchy is, there is well documented evidence of feminism's evil.

When feminism is no longer this extremist, Steinemist, Dworkinist, solanist, group, and returns to Camille Paglia, or Christina Hoff Sommers, or Warren Farrell, or even Karen DeCrow's feminism; then there might be room for empathy.

But as it is now, common feminism openly calls for the genocide of masculine peoples, and men, they do so by protecting and promoting people like Andrea Dworkin, Valerie Solanas, Bell Hooks, and Gloria Steinem under this redundant intersectional umbrella. Most utilize authoritarian tactics to silence dissent, Christina Hoff Sommers and Warren Farrell, for example.

Edit:

To further my point that feminism is the problem, you were allowed to speak here, you would be allowed to speak on r/MensRights, all without censorship, aside from reddit's; but this post is locked out of the feminism sub you posted it on.

It's not men, or the MRM, wanting to control everyone and everything.

rSlashGigi · 2025-02-04T01:36:11+00:00

Its mainly in the ‘preventative measures’ that usually frame men as inherently evil (potential) rapist who need to be under constant surveillance and should be convicted based on allegation alone.

So what measures are you advocating for? You mentioned prevention, education and communal help, but what do you mean exactly? What would you like to educate and to whom? What measures would you like to impose? What should the community do to keep others safe?

Lets_Remain_Logical · 2025-02-04T03:56:17+00:00

Actually I care about your pain. It is hard though to have empathy for people who are bullying you right now.do you see what is problematic in my statement?

That's the issue, all men are now part of one group and all women are part in one group. So every ody bashes every ody else.

I do have a question for you: is it clear to you that you that men are being demonised? That women claim wage disparity but actually, women have higher education than men right now? Do you realize that men are afraid to even look in the direction of a woman in the street for fear of a false accusation?

Do you have any men around you who got falsely accused of beine a SAer or a Nercissist, who in the least got them excluded for their support systems?

Can you see how "believe all women" is threatening one of the ore basis our our western democracies "due process".

Why women don't defend men when extreme feminists are laughing at incels, bodyshame men with less attractive attribute,including the penis size, and how they are laughing at the male loneliness pandemic?

Can you see women on tiktok bashing men for talking to them and other women bashing women for not talking to them?

Do you realize that somehow anything and everything is blamed on men?

Do you know that men get raped also?

Local-Willingness784 · 2025-02-04T04:16:30+00:00

i dont know, its really easy for you to get validation and stuff like that on this site, I'm pretty sure you got that by posting on another subs about your experiences, but what are you expecting to happen here?

HillInTheDistance · 2025-02-03T22:00:16+00:00

Honestly, as someone who has been abused by men, should you be the one doing this?

You are better served working on healing yourself. We're good. We're working on this. I wish you the best in your healing.

Gayfunguy · 2025-02-03T23:49:22+00:00

My upset came from a lot of relationships were with women where they would dump all of the stuff on me and then would never listen to me when I wanted to talk about things. Or basically treated me like you're a man, you don't have emotions. They caused me to get really bitter and s***** with women becuse so many ive associated with have treated me like i had no feelings. Being very empathetic it's very painful to be treated that way. But heres to a much better work place and good experience with female coworkers here.

Semisonic · 2025-02-03T23:08:55+00:00

The common sentiment I get when asking for advocacy is ‘Why should I care about your issues, you don’t care about mine’.

Women benefit from a number of biases baked into almost every culture. On top of that significant built in advantage, 100+ years of feminism in the West and about 50+ years of feminist/“progressive” overreach on gender issues has created 2-3 generations of Western men who have been systematically marginalized and attacked their entire lives, both in public and at home.

As a man in the US, I had an uphill climb in an education system that has been significantly tilted in favor of women since the late 70’s, only to work my way up in my career to face open and “virtuous” systematic discrimination in favor of $everyoneelse, all while avoiding getting baby trapped or accused of SA by any random crazy women out there. And that entire time, almost every woman in my life has voted or acted against my interests at every single opportunity, all while still asking me to overachieve in all areas of endeavor and be a protector and provider for my partners and family. I mean it is fucking wild that modern women don’t think their male peers have seen/understood the shit they have been pulling all these years.

Many, many, many Gen X, Millenial, and Gen Z men realize that women are not men’s allies in any way shape or form at the ballot box, in the court of public opinion, in various bureaucratic functions (law enforcement, courts, gov’t taxation and redistribution schemes, etc), or in our private lives. On a macro scale women mostly organize to take from and marginalize men. On a micro scale it’s not much different. Women only “sort of” care about family members, children, and maybe spouses.

With that in mind, why should men put time and energy advocating for women’s issues or supporting any individual woman who isn’t your immediate family or spouse? Why would men as a class support a class of people that enjoys protections, benefits, systematic and cultural privileges, etc FAR BEYOND what men in the West enjoy, only to watch those same “allies” stab us in the back at any and every opportunity they get?

The bigger problem isn’t male loneliness or anger or resentment or whatever. It’s that men training themselves out of their biases and inclination to support women and advocating for themselves is 100% game theory correct in terms of progressive/intersectional identity politics. In other words it is how men should behave in this cultural climate.

KamIsFam · 2025-02-04T07:09:15+00:00

Plenty of people here have already stated, more eloquently than I ever could, how it feels to be a man and ASSUMED that you're a piece of shit just by nature of being a man. I've been ignored and treated like shit because "oh, they're just a bunch of man-hating lesbians who had some bad experiences with men..." Boohoo, don't project that shit onto me. You want compassion? I've got lots of that to offer, but you catch more flies with honey.

Anyways, the biggest thing for me is, what I feel, common sense. It's tit-for-tat, really. You want us to care? You want us to advocate for you? Where's the reciprocation? I don't know you, maybe you do shut-down shitty women and explain how they're not helping the situation. I've tried to do my part when I can. I'm not perfect. I've told guys to fuck off at bars when they're too drunk and harassing women I know. I've told men off for being self-serving and rude to women we know. It's not much, but it's what I've experienced. The hardest thing with advocating is of ALL the stories I ready and am told about, I don't often witness them.

So now I ask, can you think of any examples where a woman has said shitty things to or about men and you've spoken up and expressed your distaste? If you come here to ask things of me, I expect you'd do the same for me. Based on your post history, I guess I'm a little unsure? It's hard to tell just based of Reddit who you and what you're like.

At the end of the day, I give the most shits about the closest people in my life. Next in line are people who are kind to me, whether that's friendly co-workers, acquaintances, or just some random stranger who gave me a compliment. Any of those can and DO include women. I'll be blunt when I say I don't give a fuck about LOTS of women. I can empathize with women's struggles, but I only really, REALLY, give a shit when someone gives a damn about me, too. Man or woman. "Oh, so you only care about women's struggles as long as it benefits you?" Yes. More specifically, I only care deeply about ANYONE's struggles as long as it also benefits me. If I gave out all my fucks and no one cared about me, well then they'd be the assholes expecting my fucks but not giving them back, wouldn't they?

You want to be different than the average Feminist? THINK differently. You can still advocate for the same things as them. Equal pay, abortion rights, female autonomy, etc. etc., and I'll support in the best way I can, even if I disagree to some degree. BUT, it's all about attitude and intention. If you have selfish intentions and a negative attitude towards men, you'll never see any form of charity from me. I have limited energy and fucks to give, I'm frugal where I spend them.

SpicyMarshmellow · 2025-02-04T11:59:52+00:00

I suggest just taking some time browsing this sub.

SentientReality · 2025-02-04T07:07:10+00:00

Your post, as it is written now (I don't know if you've edited it) is extremely non-antagonistic and non-accusatory, and I appreciate that. I totally have sympathy for you and want to open up a good faith dialog. I don't have any "fears", "hesitation", or "discomfort" engaging with you, at least not yet. haha.

Neveah_Hope_Dreams · 2025-02-03T22:19:32+00:00

Bad question: Are you a woman or a man? I am so sorry about what you have been through and I’m sorry you are being treated this way during your advocacy.

j0sch · 2025-02-04T18:27:04+00:00

Sorry to hear that happened to you, and vitriolic reactions to what you are doing now are never acceptable.

I imagine the anger stems from the perception and unfortunate reality often that these messages and actions target all men.

Women deserve protection, as everyone does, and rape is something to be educated about and have people standing up against, but many efforts seem to view all men as the problem, when most are not.

Sure, almost anyone can perpetuate rape in the right situation, even people who claim they would never and are against it, but viewing all men as the problem or potential problem is also problematic and leads to disengagement and frustration.

Puzzleheaded_Pea_889 · 2025-02-04T21:44:39+00:00

Thank you very much for being willing to engage with us, and I'm so sorry about everything that's happened to you.
You've already understood the fundamental problem, that feminists don't care about men's issues, so we're not going to spend much effort caring about yours. I would expand on that further and add that feminists actively exploit men's empathy for women as a means of abusing us, silencing critics and obtaining political power. Pretty much every man has had at least one woman in their life (maybe a friend, maybe a girlfriend, maybe a parent) who'd play the victim in every conflict and use it to excuse acts which would be considered abuse had a man done it to a woman. Then feminists legitimize and defend acts of personal abuse while simultaneously applying the same victimhood tactics on a mass scale by playing up petty grievances (eg manspreading), weaponizing accusations of abuse (eg Aziz Ansari, Johnny Depp), pointing to problems faced by women in developing countries to demand special treatment for themselves, cherry-picking misleading statistics to show discrimination against women while omitting data on discrimination against men, and rigging studies by omitting certain types of rape from their definitions to downplay the frequency of rape against men. Then when men attempt to point out these problems or discuss discrimination they face, feminists attempt to silence criticism by acting like we're somehow defending violence against women or dismissing men's problems on the grounds that women have it worse in some unrelated problem.

Then on top of all that, feminists can't seem to admit to their own conflicting and self-contradictory beliefs. We're told that 'toxic masculinity' teaches us not to express our feelings while simultaneously being called 'fragile' or 'making women do emotional labor' when we express beliefs they don't approve of. We're told that being afraid to even talk to women is some misogynist overreaction while simultaneously being shown 'catcalling' videos filled with men just saying hello. We're told that feminists are trying to shame men for their sexual desires yet get accused of objectifying women any time we express such desires. If feminists were to at least debate each other on these issues and admit that men face conflicting demands that would be fine, but instead we're gaslighted by feminists acting like their own self-contradictory opinions are universal facts and told that we're just misunderstanding something any time we point out the contradictions.

And as a very nice cherry on top, we also have to deal with feminists like Bell Hooks who speak in a kind and sympathetic tone while reinforcing the very same stereotypes, assumptions, misinformation and sexual shaming as all the others.

So in other words, when women use guilting and gaslighting to get away with abuse, men learn that their own desires to help and believe women are a weakness. Any time we hear an accusation of misconduct, we remember our own abusers who used the same tricks against us and hesitate to believe women out of fear of facilitating abuse against someone else. Any time we read a study on discrimination, we suspect it's just more rigged definitions. You can see why people like Andrew Tate become so popular - in a world where empathy is a weakness, only sociopaths are free. Men and women would both be mutually better off cooperating, but as long as feminists insist on defending and legitimizing abuse by their own members, men don't have much of a choice but to put themselves first.

CodeSenior5980 · 2025-02-05T07:36:12+00:00

Feminism made a lot of promises for both sexes, it promised a different way to form relationships and equality among sexes. It instead delivered out of human expectations, toxicity, and hatred towards most men.

Initial_Zebra100 · 2025-02-03T19:28:03+00:00

It's complicated. I saw your post in the feminist space and.. oh boy, those responses.

I would like to say thank you for making the effort, but I don't know what I can do. I try to lead with kindness with everyone.

Why the pushback? I'm not so sure. Socialised boys are genuinely still taught different things, treated differently. Toxic forms of what's acceptable as masculinity. To be confident, powerful, to date, and be seen as desirable. A sense the world doesn't care or that a man stands alone. He must absorb others' attacks and remain stoic, remain emotionally regulated. It's probably past negative experiences. This doesn't justify anything that's happened to you at all.

That vast amount of vitriol directed at men becomes overwhelming. I've spoken with dozens of men who detest themselves. It makes no sense to feel that way. So it's either shame or anger. Sometimes, that expression is masking pain, depression. A sense of helplessness.

Men can be their own worst enemies.

ChaosCron1 · 2025-02-04T08:57:13+00:00

I don't have any discomfort, other than the fact that conservatism is trying to preserve traditional views of masculinity, femininity, and androgyny which are engrained with other traditional problematic mindsets like racism, sexism, homophobobia, etc. I hope I can advocate for men to avoid the trap of the soothing opiate that is right-wing nostalgia and victimization.

I'm probably not the audience for your question so I just want to leave that I think you're incredibly brave for posting about your trauma. It's good to get these feelings out to people, even if we're complete strangers, to help ease the stress it causes. I for one know that you have what it takes to get through your history and become a better person. You might not be the same ceramic vase, but like Kintsugi, your cracks will be joined together with gold.

Leinadro · 2025-02-05T15:27:52+00:00

I’m sorry that so many men feel so shunned. I feel like I’ve become a constant outlet for men who feel abandoned to release their frustration on.

I know you mean well but for a lot of guys it's not a feeling it's a reality.

I try to meditate these situations and handle them with kindness and empathy but it hurts.

I'm sorry you experience such treatment but I also thank you for at least trying to hear guys out on these things.

I hear your anger, I want to help. The common sentiment I get when asking for advocacy is ‘Why should I care about your issues, you don’t care about mine’.

For a lot men this is the reality we face when we speak up. To put it blunt we as men are often told quite literally to the point that things we experience do not matter because (insert list of things women experience). We are often told that "when women's issues are fixed then we can maybe think about men's issues".

In the grand scheme of gender issues men are told the very things women fight against which makes it so widely hypocritical. Women are quick to say, "Well behaved women don't change history" but will turn around and tell men to wait our turn.

I'll share this with you. Ever notice that in the vein of gender equality women are told to put themselves first while men are told to put everyone else first? Please realize that a lot if not most men are in the very situations we are in now because we already put everyone else first and its worn us out and left us tired, just to be called selfish and inconsiderate of others.

Pay attention to how even in so called progressive/feminist/left/etc... spaces women are told to basically do whatever they want to hell with how men are affected but men are told to pretty much prioritize women over ourselves as if "taking responsibility/accountability" for literally everything will somehow fix everything for everyone.

That is why men are angry. We are blamed for everything, credited for nothing, and told put everyone else ahead of our own wellbeing.

Now with all that said I acknowledge that your patience, care, and love are not infinite. Therefore I'd say you also have to keep in mind what you will and will not tolerate. Just because you care doesn't mean you deserve to be a punching bag. Don't be scared to cut hostile people off.

ashfinsawriter · 2025-02-06T18:45:56+00:00

Male sexual abuse victim here, targeted by 4 women throughout my life- one being my own mother, and one other being a grown woman, and I was a minor for all 4. You could even argue for a 5th time when an elderly woman kissed me on the lips without consent when I was 14, but it didn't go further than kissing me.

Any time I talk about this to anyone but my closest internal circle, they usually laugh or just praise me for getting so much female attention. For the kissing-only incident it was in full view of a group of people and they laughed then and there while I stood there, unresponsive from shock (I'd already been abused by then btw)

Even THERAPISTS dismissed me. And feminists consistently tell me it's disgusting to "co-opt a women's issue" even if I'm talking about it independently from them.

It's not a women's issue. Male victims are constantly dismissed, their issues are downplayed, and even victims are villanized- let alone non victims who are basically just assumed to be rapists themselves or at the very least complicit.

So while I'd NEVER take it out on anyone with any sort of threat, and if I do show my anger I direct it at the people mistreating me, I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this feeling and not everyone has the self restraint I do. I certainly get that initial flash of rage for anyone expressing anything too reminiscent of the worldviews that get me treated so horribly.

Idk how you conduct your discussions of prevention and such but if you don't remove gender from the equation I suggest you do. Anyone can be a victim and anyone can be a perpetrator. Obviously nothing justifies the DMs you've been getting, absolutely not. But if you're framing things female victim/male perpetrator you could also be hurting people who are good people.

chasum_ · 2025-02-04T01:23:16+00:00

You will learn this very simple but universal truth: you cannot fight anything without giving it energy. It is a universal law that few have come to understand here on Earth. I did not make this up, it was taught from an out of body experience. Anyway, if you can wrap your head around this concept, you will do better than 99% of people mentally. Best of luck.

Cool_Football_3030 · 2025-02-04T03:30:38+00:00

I have a lot to say on this but am unable to put it into a comment for some reason.

NoMeasurement688 · 2025-02-03T23:22:19+00:00

The problem amongst leftist today is the lack of understanding of one simple concept.

Men existing≠Upholding the patriarchy

The patriarchy is real, it hurts people, both men and women. It’s not about who it hurts more, it’s not a contest. It’s bad for everybody and it needs to go.

As a man it is not my fault global patriarchy exists, and anyone who treats me as if I’m some apathetic animal who sees women as sex objects is unhinged and I refuse to be around.

SmallEdge6846 · 2025-02-03T21:58:16+00:00

There was a post/articles about Men not reporting their abuse at all. You being shunned or not having the space to talk unfortunately is not surprising. Better men need to be in position to help foster better conversation

Title	I feel abandoned by men, what has caused so much anger?
Author	Ok_Addition_7875
Upvotes	113
Comments	97
Date	February 3, 2025 3:51 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/1igs6dk/i_feel_abandoned_by_men_what_has_caused_so_much/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/i-feel-abandoned-by-men-what-has-caused-so-much.1542882 https://theredarchive.com/post/1542882

Comments