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Wife Went Full Bitch Mode

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February 27, 2019
24 upvotes

Posted in OYS this week but need some immediate feedback.

Yesterday, I just got home (about 30 mins earlier than normal), was sitting checking emails, and texting with a guy I work with. My wife out of nowhere, bitchily turns to me and goes "what are you doing, who the hell are you texting?". I AA'd and responded with "just trying to manage all my girlfriends" with a huge grin. She asks what the hell is wrong with me, and has been mad since. i went to Muay Thai, came home, she was still bitchy so I just went up to bed and read.

Tonight she’s still bitchy, shit tests left and right, started being downright disrespectful. Tying to point out how much better she is than I am, she’d have no problem finding someone, etc. I just smiled and AA/ fogged all of this. At that point I stood up and went to the garage to lift. She’s now moving her stuff into the guest room. I was in DNGAF mode, but now am wondering if I fucked something up here. Or is just looking like a mega shit test over something stupid?

Edit: Adding context on the last few months Week 20 of MAP. Here's the short version of why I found MRP: Sex life sucked. Son died of cancer 3 years ago, became needy and whiny relying on her for emotional support, depression, panic attacks.

From Week 16 and the fuck-up.

I fucked up and probably set myself back two months by complaining about lack of affection and how sex life was boring. This occurred since it was 4 days since we had sex and I was feeling neglected (stupid). I just couldn't STFU, I wanted to win the argument. Naturally wife took offense to all this especially since I was an asshole in the way I brought it up; I went Rambo in the worst way when I thought the anger was gone. I keep comparing myself to all the guys on here versus figuring out my own values and what I want. I've shifted validation from my wife to this forum which is fucked up.

Last few weeks I've been really well mentally. I started Muay Thai 6 weeks ago to get out of the house 2x a week. Went to a work event and didn't care she was pissed about it. Started removing attention last week when she was in a mood (no major issues or bitchiness though - more finger fucking her phone and I had better things to do).

UPDATE All the comments gave me a lot to consider. Here's my take and update of the situation.

  • This is a serious 0 to nuclear by her. I am preparing if she goes to kill the puppy. I am not ready to kill the puppy.
  • I have never seen her in this mode... ever. She's gotten pissed and launched verbal intercourse, but it was never this raw. She was cursing like a sailor (she has never cursed since I've known her).

What I've taken from her bevy of text messages (that I didn't respond to outside of "if you want to talk face to face I'll be in our bed")

  • She is feeling very confused about the 'new' me
  • She says she wants a 'nice guy' who will be a good husband
  • She feels I'm preparing or currently cheating.
    • Based on starting to exercise, lose weight, lift weights
    • Comments regarding cheating and girlfriends
    • Starting Muay Thai and out at night 1-2x per week
    • Going to work events where there are women around ("who knows what you do during those")
  • She doesn't understand why I'm not apologizing for the girlfriend comment
  • Apparently I joked recently when the kids were whining about being left with me when she went out that "maybe it'd be better if you died, then they'd have no choice". Not the smartest comment, but nothing happened here... and wasn't brought up until last night. She claims I "wish she was dead".

My take

  • This is a main event
  • She wants me to apologize, grovel, beg, etc.
  • I have held pretty strong to frame and not getting upset or angry (outside of the kid situation)
    • I had her laughing a few times when I got home during some shit tests
    • Things really went to shit with her after I went to lift
    • She didn't like that when we were arguing that I 'left' and 'chose' to workout
    • Her tactics escalated to try to get a response
      • First takes ring off - used to bother me, doesn't affect me at all
      • Stonewalls - not complete no talking, but limited communication - doesn't affect me
      • Tries verbal intercouse - I went and lifted
      • Starts into the "you're an asshole, I deserve better" speech
      • Threatens divorce (while she can be crafty, I doubt she's lawyering up. But I'm watching out for it)
      • Moves her shit into the guest bedroom - still doesn't get a response
      • Threatens things regarding kids - anger response from me that this is not acceptable. She backs down a little bit
      • Text messages with a lot of crazy random shit and no reaction from me
  • Her using the kids, manufacturing situations is a red flag. I am very concerned here and this cannot ever happen again if the marriage does continue
  • Regarding comfort - I think I need to dial the dread back and up comfort in the future (assuming marriage continues)
    • Comfort is there but she needs more right now
    • Dial back AA/AM regarding extramarital affairs
    • She's feeling very confused and like she's not valued

As of this morning

Said goodbye to the kids, told her to have a nice day. She grunted a response which was indecipherable.


Post Information
Title Wife Went Full Bitch Mode
Author LongRoad_518
Upvotes 24
Comments 94
Date 27 February 2019 12:01 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/220254
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/av6i14/wife_went_full_bitch_mode/
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Red Pill terms found in post:
MAPdread gameframecheatingshit testlift
Comments

[–]MrChad_ThundercockBig Red Machine31 points32 points  (7 children) | Copy

It gets worse before it gets better. She’s feelzing the dynamic changing and doesn’t like it.

Get ready for a huge comfort test disguised as a shit test soon. Mmslp talks about it.

Edit: She’ll probably accuse you of cheating.. It’s a comfort test.

[–]InChargeManRed Beret24 points25 points  (3 children) | Copy

Edit: She’ll probably accuse you of cheating.. It’s a comfort test.

This ship has sailed. OP said in later comment that she is now accusing him of harming the kids. She is taking pictures and going to authorities.

This is a declaration of war. No coming back from this in my mind. Once that door has been opened it can't be closed. Just the slightest hint from a woman that she might manufacture a situation where you could end up in jail or worse is all anyone should need execute on a GO plan. Sometimes a little smoke is all the warning you get before you are trapped in a burning building. OP is surely a fuckup, but at this point what's done is done, he can save his gainz for the next relationship.

u/LongRoad_518 if the shit you are saying on here is true (regarding her behaviors and the kids) you are up shit creek. If you get out of this unscathed you are a lucky son of a bitch. Every action you take from this moment needs to be carefully measured, controlled and planned. Don't be a fuckup and start spouting your mouth about how you are going to see a lawyer tomorrow, "see you in divorce court", etc. You SHUT THE FUCK UP, be an actor, and put on the best beta faggot response you can. Anything it takes to regain peace and put her hamster to bed a bit (to buy you time). The last thing you need is to have some sheriff show up at your work and take you away in handcuffs. Tell her you are sorry, how right she is, blah blah blah. Your "frame" now is the realization that she is no longer and will never again be on your "team". DNGAF about what you have to say to placate her, it isn't losing your frame, it is manipulating the situation through your actions and words to achieve your desired outcome. Lawyer the fuck up, pick the best three in the region, consult with them all, find one you like, make a plan, execute. And honestly, if I were you, I would find a way to record yourself 24/7 whenever you are around the kids. I'm not exaggerating. If I had to I would look like a goddamn Japanese tourist, with a go-pro strapped to my forehead. Look into your states privacy laws (single party, etc). If you could record (at least audio) all interactions with any family member at any time that would be a major ace in the hole that could potentially save your bacon.

Disclaimer, I'm not a lawyer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express.

[–]SailorAground5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

OP, Search for lawyers on Martin Dale. It's a lawyer search site that has reviews of lawyers from their peers. It's how I found my divorce attorney and how I recommend finding yours.

They will all likely be expensive, but hiring a lawyer is one of those things that you get what you pay for.

Also, go to ALL of the highest rated attorneys and pay for an hour consultation. This will poison the well and prevent her from being able to use them.

Remember that she no longer loves you and that any affection that she once had for you is now dead and gone. You need to be absolutely ruthless and plan for the worst. If you don't, she will destroy you.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Agreed. There are certain lines that if crossed, you can't go back from.

"taking pictures for a lawyer tomorrow" is one of them.

You better protect yourself, OP, or you might be finding yourself really screwed.

[–]mrpthrowa2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

/u/LongRoad_518 read this...

She shifted it a gear, she went to play in a different league... she shifted from football to BJJ, and you're still trying to play in the lower league.. It's flight or die at this point... the legal stuff is blunt it's gonna hit you like a train and you're in no way prepared... Once you get into that system it's too late... you're a statistic, a row in a document somewhere... none of your cries or excuses or efforts will matter...

it's tempting to hold on to the idea of getting through this and "no fail", we men suck at this we think we should succeed in everything...

You need to self preserve right now.... move on...

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

She’ll probably accuse you of cheating.. It’s a comfort test.

She did do this. She went between basically "you suck, you're such an asshole you won't find anyone else" to "you say you have all these girlfriends, what do I know what you're doing". The latter I used comfort, but she switched back into shit. Sounds like a shitty comfort test... just went for 0 to fucking insane very quickly.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy

Welcome to a main event. You've been training your whole MRP journey for this. Now you're in the ring. Only you will know how to defeat your opponent: your hamster and hers combined.

Now is the time be strong, faggot.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It gets worse before it gets better. She’s feelzing the dynamic changing and doesn’t like it.

This was the first time I really felt I DNGAF. Internalized it. Sounds like I should go do some shit and stop overthinking things. That gets me into trouble.

Get ready for a huge comfort test disguised as a shit test soon. Mmslp talks about it.

Definitely not yet, but I'll go re-read my MMSLP highlights.

[–]rocknrollchuck14 points15 points  (2 children) | Copy

From your OYS 3 months ago:

Background: Life has sucked for me… I was just surviving the last 2 years. I haven’t written the full background yet (I don’t want the sympathy and don’t want people holding back on the criticism). We had unexpectedly and quickly lost of a kid from cancer 2 years ago, and a miscarriage a year before that. I went into a tailspin, my wife invested everything in my other 2 kids. They sleep in the bed with her, I sleep on a separate mattress in the room. This happened due to them and my wife having huge fears/anxiety after my other child died. What was supposed to be temporary has become the norm. I was grieving heavily and I became needy and stopped leading. We coasted through life the last 2 years and I felt lost. Life is too short to live in that shit. Finding MRP has started to change that. I feel a new person – not constrained by fear and recognizing I’m a pretty great person (aka the prize).

.

I am in therapy for the last 2 years. It's helped... actually helped get me to this point. Surprisingly she says a lot of the same stuff as RP (no talking about RP) - focus on yourself, she'll come along or won't, etc.

.

My wife absolutely refuses therapy as she says there's nothing wrong with her.

Are you sure it has nothing to do with this? You yourself said

80% of marriages don't survive a loss of a child... exactly for similar reasons (one is ready to move on, the other is not).

Is it possible she's trying to get you to kill the puppy?

[–]FereallyRedHard Core Red2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Chuck for the win.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I thought she was relatively sane and majority of drama and her depression was my lack of leadership. This whole night makes me question her sanity.
Edit: I don’t think she’s trying to get me to kill it. She’s going back and forth between wanting me to reassure her and calling me a dick.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret13 points14 points  (2 children) | Copy

Fucking relax. Be strong.

Main event happening. This is who decides who will control you.

Make it you.

Don’t forget to feed all that exercise with good while food. Don’t let the unicorn turn your diet it stress eating

Be strong. You’re living this life for you

[–]redwall921 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Don’t forget to feed all that exercise with good while food. Don’t let the unicorn turn your diet it stress eating

I found I lost the most weight the quickest when stress was highest. I was amazed at how few calories I consumed for a week or two at a time when things were most stressful in my family.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah... with this and a colitis flare up weight is going to drop.

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret12 points13 points  (4 children) | Copy

If your repertoire consists only of evasive escalation tactics such as AA and leaving the house, you eventually look weak, and also invite escalation tactics on her side. Sometimes you have to Stop tolerating bullshit, and start showing controlled anger. You also have to give comfort and reassurance of commitment within your boundaries sometimes to maintain a marriage. (This is not to say that this one is salvageable, but it's certainly not if you don't do your part.)

[–]jcrptaRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

This!

While there is no harm in using just one or two evasion tactics when you get started - largely because you previously had no way to deal with her behaviour - you absolutely must work on building up further tactics in your arsenal because sooner or later your wife will find a way to re-frame the two things so they're a beta move.

Always leaving the house? You're "flouncing out".

Always AAing? You "don't take her seriously".

Before you know it, you're back where you were. She's got you in a position you cannot possibly win from, because every tactic you know will (very vocally) be derided as a pathetic move.

[–]Big_Daddy_PDX0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I’d also add, that while removing ourself from the situation is actually a valid strategy, that’s supposed to be limited occurrences. If leaving the house or her becomes normal, it’s a major issue.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I am not sure I have read /u/weakandsensitive post on controlled anger before you linked it, but his ending line

I have done this exactly once.

Makes me wonder, how many times it has happened since?

Also reinforces the post I made here talking about my recent experience with this same concept.

Even though I apparently did it w/o knowing it.

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Every once in a while 6 month to a year, wife wants a reminder that she needs to put in effort. But that's usually just stern, and not controlled anger.

Controlled anger is for when she's going out of her way to pick a fight. More than happy to deliver. Satisfied customers are my #1 priority.

[–]BostonBrakeJob7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

Sometimes we're the mirror. Sometimes we're the projection screen.

My best guess is you're the screen right now. "Mrs. LongRoad's Insecure Meltdown" is playing in Ultra 4K.

You have a list of bullet points giving your interpretation of her thoughts and feelings right now. You'll be told here at MRP to stay out of her head and so on. And sure, there are times where that's a good idea. I don't think this is one of those times though. You're empathizing with her, at least in your post. So I ask, how are you expressing this empathy to her? Fire with fire, from the looks of it. So what do you expect?

You see, I've been in a similar boat for awhile now. Heavy dread. 50/50 "active/passive" at first, 100% passive for the last 6+ months. Misguided MAP for my marriage. All Rambo everything. Same results too. Things get great as she competes for my time and attention. Eventually she burns out and turns to her phone and work. I neg about her withdrawing and start doing my own thing without her a lot more often. She walks on eggshells for awhile, then finally blows up. Rinse & repeat.

I've missed my part in this cycle the entire time. She tries her damnedest, and I respond with the same AA/AM stuff you do "...all my other girlfriends" comments, DNGAF attitude, and the likes. Where's her incentive to keep dealing with her methed out hamster? Where's her incentive to "keep up the good work"?

Put yourself in her shoes for a minute (meaning, look at this through a blue lens.) You're an anxious wreck who thinks she's got every dick in town rode by the end of the week. You think she could give 2 fucks about you, your thoughts, ideas, opinions and feelings. You think she thinks you're an awful father and human being in general. You finally get to your breaking point and reach out to her, and she tells you "can't be bothered right now. gotta ice my pussy after the gangbang I just took" and shoots you the same shit eating grin. You gonna be able to see her love through all the smartassery in that moment? The answer is probably no, you won't. What you'll probably see is a person who could give 0 fucks about you and your well being. Cue more anxiety and empty threats. Scratching and clawing to get some reaction that shows she still cares. Any hint will do at that point.

Knowing what we know now, we don't give that kind of power over ourselves to other people. But your wife hasn't been taking the steps to become her own mental point of origin. She hasn't done any of this reading and introspection. Hell, she doesn't even consciously know the laws of attraction and hypergamy. So how, when she is reaching those high levels of anxiety, could you expect her to logically think, "What a smartass! Well, if he thinks it's ridiculous enough to joke around about then maybe I should just chill the fuck out. I'mma suck his dick tho...just in case."

But, more importantly, what could you be doing in the meantime to prevent her anxiety from reaching those levels in the first place? Don't get lost here. Her feelings aren't your responsibility. They're not yours to fix and/or control. I'm asking you, what can you do? What is in your control?

Again, this is all off my belief that what you're experiencing is one gigantic shitty comfort test. It may be a good idea to meet with some lawyers and start getting yourself prepped for divorce, just in case. She may be pushing her own agenda here.

But maybe not? And even is she is, if you're not ready, or it's not what you want, then what's the harm in opening a conversation with her about all this? Give her a chance to do some more purging. Lay out your vision for your future. And ffs, if you want her there then let her know it. Worst case, this is a misread and she really does wanna leave you...and you still live out a great fucking life.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I neg about her withdrawing and start doing my own thing without her a lot more often. She walks on eggshells for awhile, then finally blows up. Rinse & repeat.

It usually blows up during her PMS week... every 4 weeks or so it just goes nuclear and I think the cycle you laid out is EXACTLY what is happening.

She tries her damnedest, and I respond with the same AA/AM stuff you do "...all my other girlfriends" comments, DNGAF attitude, and the likes. Where's her incentive to keep dealing with her methed out hamster? Where's her incentive to "keep up the good work"?

I think you hit the nail on the head. The comments you have said mirror hers eerily well. Her hamster has gone wild and in her view is "my husband is an ass who doesn't care one iota about me, so fuck him". I've been 100% focused on myself... in her view (and she's not wrong) I've become a selfish ass from being a 'nice', 'caring', 'sacrificing' husband for her in the course of a few months. She made the comment (exactly the same as I read others on here in OYS) that "all I need is a hooker and a maid so what's the point of staying around to someone who doesn't love or care for me".

But maybe not? And even is she is, if you're not ready, or it's not what you want, then what's the harm in opening a conversation with her about all this? Give her a chance to do some more purging. Lay out your vision for your future. And ffs, if you want her there then let her know it. Worst case, this is a misread and she really does wanna leave you...and you still live out a great fucking life.

This is what may goal is today. With my limited interaction this morning she's calmer. I'm getting ready for divorce - it's a real possibility, but I don't think you're misreading this.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret12 points13 points  (4 children) | Copy

My take? Mega shit test. But I don't know you. I commented on your OYS about comfort tests. This is not one, but think more about your comments there.

My wife did the same exact thing 4 nights ago. I didn't say a word. She still came to bed after having to move her stuff back into our room.

Even if she doesnt, why do you care?

Are you strong enough to pass the test by being the strongest oak and sway with her through one of her moods with your strength and humor?

Go reread TWOTSM

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

I’ll go reread TWOTSM and this started because I came home and tried to give comfort. I came home and said “you’re great at making all the food yesterday” (she was cooking up a storm all day and made some tasty shit. This devolved immediately to her being bitchy.

[–]QueenSlapFight4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ignore her until she stops acting insane. This is not a comfort test.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Reading other comments, this could be your main event. Dont be the rock, be the oak, and ye shall be rewarded.

Shes getting crazier because she wants beta Billy back.

[–]Maximus_Valerius1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Strange...my wife started sleeping in the guest room a few days ago. Shit test for sure.

[–]BobbyPeruRed Beret3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy

Perhaps you want Rambo and her hamster is going. Maybe she is PMS’ing... maybe she’s fucking someone... etc.

You didn’t give us enough from your post. Give us more info on the last couple months.

In any case, just keep doing what you’re doing. Perhaps STFU and remove your presence if it gets really bad. AA and AM are effective only to a point... and it depends on the woman

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

She is PMSing this week.

In any case, just keep doing what you’re doing. Perhaps STFU and remove your presence if it gets really bad. AA and AM are effective only to a point... and it depends on the woman

This is why I went and lifted. Wasn't butt hurt, didn't act butt hurt, just didn't want to be around her attitude anymore.

[–]Kpwn881 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

maybe she’s fucking someone

There's a good chance she had an affair after their kid died and he was being a needy little faggot. If the guy she was fucking dumped her, she could easily turn her alpha widow resentment toward her husband and mentally block a proper pair bond as he ups his SMV. A refusal of acceptance.

[–]hack3geRed Beret3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

Experience or conjecture?

[–]Kpwn880 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Conjecture. My sweet little princess would never even dream of looking at another man.

[–]hack3geRed Beret2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

My sweet little princess would never even look at another man.

How's the steak my brother?

[–]Kpwn880 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Raw and delicious.

[–]Red-Nerd133 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

Take my opinion for what's is worth, but why do you care? Stay plan is the go plan. If you're sitting good enough in yourself, then you'll be fine, even uf she leaves. Things might not get better as you improve. She might decide she doesn't like the new you & wants her pushover back.

If she leaves, you're better equipped to find someone better. If she doesn't leave it'll be because she's decided that she likes the new your, even if it was uncomfortable in the beginning. As you age, you as the male has the advantage in the field. Use that mindset to help your DNGAF attitude.

Things wont get better until your DNGAF attitude is genuine. Others can chime in on my opinion, but my relationship with my wife is much better than it used to be. It didn't get better into I genuinely didn't care about her 'approval'.

I've mentioned it in other threads, but my turning point was when I decided to do a kind of diet plan (keto) that she thought was dangerous. I was doing some reading in it, she asked what I was reading, I told her I was thinking about the keto diet. She proceeded to talk me how dumb it was, how dangerous it was, etc...

I simply smiled and went back to my reading. Once I was done, I just said out loud, "I think I'm going to try it". The look on her face was hilarious and she was only able to stammer out "You're going to do this anyway?". I responded with "Yep" and that was that.

I got minor pushbacks here & there but for the most part there was an instant switch from her. Went from full-on disrespect to full-on support. When I saw results from the diet plan, it was over. She has been really horny lately (especially since she's 7 months pregnant right now).

Summary of the chain of events for me.

1) Had issues with seeking her 'Approval' 2) Was researching a new diet plan 3) She asked what I was doing 4) I told her 5) She outright disrespectfuly told me her opinion of his dumb it was 6) I smiled with some genuine amusement at the fact that she thought her interjection of opinion would dissuade me from doing it. (This part is still probably an issue, but it slightly made me want to do it to piss her off. I can't let it have any effect on my decision making. ) 7) I told her I was doing it anyway, she was shocked. 8) I lost fat, gained some muscle on the diet plan while I was lifting (re-newbie gains? I was pretty fit at one point, but let myself go a bit) 9) She is now in full support & enjoying my new look.

The key here is, on step 6 & 7 where I brushed off her disrespect & did the diet against her opinion, my DNGAF reaction was genuine & wasn't thought out. I just reacted that way. I think that is key. Work in yourself until you get to a point where you honestly DNGAF. Pretending or putting on the appearance makes things worse in my experience.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

I’m fine with her doing whatever... it’s her turning the kids against me and making shit up that gets to me.

[–]simbarlionRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Personally I think kids are way smarter and more intuitive than people give credit for.

They won't be swayed just cause mommy is a bit angry right now. If your relationship with them is strong, don't worry so much that she will ' turn the kids against me'.

[–]Red-Nerd130 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Makes sense, that'd piss me off too. I didn't go back & read your OYS post so my context was what you wrote here.

[–]RPeed3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Look bro, as I mentioned I'm coming from a similar place. And fuck there are a ton of comments that hit home recently.

/u/persaeus makes a great general observation here. Bitter food for thought but I hope you caught it.

We had a good exchange about how to lead your wife out of depression in general. But my own experience has been that if anything, you'll be the emotional mess here. I went full robot mode, which is nothing more than the other side of whining, and cut off anything other than neutral response to shit testing.

Left a lot of ambiguity in my boundaries, as McGill notes here. But they were always there and this is where it fits in for me.

What delivered me was controlled anger and Man in the World points you to guidance.

I would add: be cautious.

Fuck I was shocked by how much rage I had when I opened that box. Rage.

I will be forever grateful that the only person I frightened (so far) was myself.

/u/bostonbrakejob described his own experience. And I think it will be difficult to get a new appreciation for using it as a legitimate tool to enforce boundary if you start out viewing anger as a weakness or otherwise undesirable. Now I'm probably not far off where I started but all the internal basis and probably outward nuance has changed.

And I guess it comes back to Frame.

I really did not appreciate the wisdom of breaking out emotion as a separate element until recently. In fact I probably thought of "frame" almost interchangeably with "self confidence".

All that being said, your wife is playing a mean hand and you need to know when to hold em and fold em.

Good luck man.

[–]becoming_alpha3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Last summer my wife did something similar. I'd been a little rambo my first 6 months of MRP, too much talking and not enough STFU. She wanted to talk about all my problems, I didn't engage for several days and finally said ok, let's talk. She falsely accused me of rape, tried to lock me out of the house, said we should separate, took the kids away overnight the next night with no notice, and planned to take them out of state for the rest of summer. This was all super-aggressive for her and outside anything I'd ever seen. It's pretty clear she'd discussed with her inner circle (all on their second marriage) and decided to execute operation kill the puppy.

I lawyered up and prepared for divorce, and made peace mentally with the end of my marriage. I didn't agree to separate or leave the house. Much like others here suggested, I was nice and pleasant and we worked well as mom and dad inc. with the kids, while doing everything possible to protect myself and prepare. I drew a hard boundary around the false allegation and would not sleep in the same room with her until she both recanted and expressed she wanted a physical relationship with me to our counselor (yeah, not recommended I know). I ramped up the comfort and toned down the dread. One important thing I learned was to genuinely apologize. I know MRP says don't say sorry, but that's really to avoid a trite, empty apology that doesn't mean anything and is just beta supplication. A real apology is absolutely appropriate if you, from your own judgment, think you made a mistake. It looks like saying you made a mistake for something you went rambo about, you see how it hurt her and you regret doing it.

It was a rough month and by the end she was begging me to be physical again. Things gradually improved over the months since and I took my finger off the trigger, but my foot is still on the gas.

Good luck, brother. Either way it turns out, you'll be fine and you'll be a better and stronger man because of it.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

Tonight she’s still bitchy, shit tests left and right, started being downright disrespectful.

Sometimes shit tests are that, but sometimes they proceed into boundaries being crossed.

I expect shit tests, and my wife can be bratty, but fuck all if she will be disrespectful. That's a boundary that won't be crossed. Sounds to me like you don't enforce boundaries?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

I hadn’t enforced boundaries until a few months ago. She was respecting them. She crossed some serious ones last night.

[–]InChargeManRed Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

She crossed some serious ones last night.

I call BS. She may have crossed what you claim to be a boundary, but based on your attitude on here and your refusal to kill the puppy, you haven't learned the difference between a preference and boundary. You prefer that she doesn't falsely accuse you of physically harming your children, but since you are still talking about trying to continue with this relationship at all costs, it is clear that it is not a boundary.

She crossed some serious ones last night.

FTFY: She made me more butthurt than usual, so I'm going to have to be even more dramatic than usual.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I appreciate your feedback. Here's my thoughts, maybe I'm playing too nice here?

refusal to kill the puppy,

Refusal to kill the puppy for the first instance of her trying shit like this and backing down once called out? Seems extreme.

relationship at all costs Never said at all costs. We've been through a lot of shit together... and this is the first time she's tried this.

She made me more butthurt than usual, so I'm going to have to be even more dramatic than usual. I'm not butthurt or being dramatic. I told her to never accuse me again of something that didn't happened. She backed off. I went to bed.

[–]InChargeManRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You had a very hard experience with your son, we all understand this and feel for you. I have your best interests in mind. Everything I see here is very bad. When you see manipulative behaviors revolving around the kids and claims that you are a danger to them it cannot be underestimated. Once you are down that path there is no going back in my opinion.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Does she know she crossed a boundary? Because it sounds like you just AA'd until she went beyond. What did you do to enforce it?

[–]johneyapocalypseThe one that says "Bad Motherfucker"1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Son died of cancer 3 years ago.

I'm sorry for your loss. Don't go beating yourself up with no end in sight. I understand the need to be strong and carry on, but I also understand the pain and intensity of that loss.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Life has been crappy... I’ve made it crappier by my actions. I feel it’s my responsibility to at least try to lead my family... it may be too late. It may not be.

[–]hack3geRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Regarding comfort - I think I need to dial the dread back and up comfort in the future (assuming marriage continues)

Comfort is there but she needs more right now

Dial back AA/AM regarding extramarital affairs

She's feeling very confused and like she's not valued

Seems like a main event - just STFU, use the tools, focus on your kids and hold firm - if you provide too much comfort it will come across as supplicating and falling into her frame. A woman who wants a divorce isn't angry, she is indifferent and apathetic. You would have seen the checking out and her withdrawing more before the incident - she just realized that she lost all power in the relationship. My take on the kids thing is that she realizes she has no weapons left - its kind of a shitty thing to do but some women go for blood, mine sure did. Make sure you are ready for your vision for when she finally breaks and essentially asks you how she gets that comfort back.

Funny thing about the girlfriend jokes - when you were a BP fat faggot I bet she joked that you needed a gf instead of bothering her but fast forward and now that you can actually get a gf its apparently not so funny.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Hang in there my friend. It sounds like your doing the right thing and focusing on yourself. I'm going to throw this out from left field, but this is the exact way my ex used to act when she felt guilt / shame over something, particularly when she started having an affair with a coworker. She was deflecting and acting pissed at me because of her lack of self control. Even if this is the case, and I hope it isn't, your still doing the best thing and that is self-control and self-improvement.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I find AA can be hit-or-miss depending on her current mood or if she is PMS'ing. If she is directly questioning if I am with, or talking to, another women I typically dont let that continue with a AA that re-inforces her fear. I might spin it to "Awww, your so cute when your jealous" or do something to switch her mood.... Not confirming or denying her suspicion

Now, if she is asking what I am doing (as an innocent question without questioning if i am talking to another female) I will then AA with a "chatting with all my bitches"

NOW, i should point out that my wife has been very receptive to my changes and has never threatened divorce like your wife... So It might be hard to apply what is working with me on her.

[–]RedPillCoach1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Son died of cancer 3 years ago

Condolences. This changes everything and the divorce rate for people in your situation is ridiculously high. The dynamic is that the wife is flailing around for emotional support. She expects and demands it from her husband. The problem is that Husbands are far less equipped to handle the loss of a child than the wife. You would think it would not be so but it is. Thus the husband cannot provide what the wife needs and she becomes more and more angry.

All that said, this is background. This is the rest of your answer:

She is feeling very confused about the 'new' me

Good! Then all of this was likely just a shit test. Hold frame, etc.

she wants a 'nice guy' who will be a good husband

Of course she does! The problem is that the word "nice" and "good" don't mean what she (and you) think it means.

It means she wants a STRONG, POWERFUL man who is GOOD ENOUGH to take her in his arms and reassure her that it is going to be just fine. A man who can let her rail and whine is what she means by "nice." A man who can reassure her with a loving hug that you are there and everything is going to be fine is what she means by "good."

I would try that.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red1 point2 points  (20 children) | Copy

Next time she goes to the guest room follow about 30 seconds later. Close the door toss her on the bed and fuck her brains out.

If you cant do this you suck and need to just leave her alone.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (19 children) | Copy

She convinces the kids to 'camp out' on the floor with her, locks the door. It's some fucked up behavior.

[–]DogMuh6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

To show u are the villain. And to get the kids against you. Listen, women are children. She is not an adult. She is an insecure child. This is nature. You are the man. You are the head of your leashed cunt. Act accordingly

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red15 points16 points  (17 children) | Copy

Fuck her then.

My wife did the same at the end.

Bitch lives alone.

Who is the motherfucking prize?

You are close to main event/kill the puppy.

Edit:

I would walk in there, kick the kids out get in her face and say:

“You can sit in here and be a cunt all you want. But you will not damage MY kids in the process. They are coming out there with me”

ZERO MOTHERFUCKING TOLERANCE FOR TERRORISTS.

Edit 2: Bring the downvotes on faggots. If you dont have the balls to stand up to another human for the sake of your kids then fuck off.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (14 children) | Copy

I did this. Had them all ready in bed about to read a book. Five year old has a tendency to not pee before bed. Ten year old said she didn’t. I told her she needs to go, she started crying, wife came in a pulled her away and then claimed I left marks on her and she was taking pictures for a lawyer tomorrow. What the fuck has happened? I don’t care what happens with my wife, but fuck she’s not taking my kids and making it out like I abuse them.

[–]lukeyj_gtfc13 points14 points  (7 children) | Copy

Lawyer up mate. Shit is getting serious.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy

Already had a consult a few months back. I’m starting to record and document shit now.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy

I want an update what happened?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

I updated the post at the bottom.

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy

Well here’s my take based off your updates. I would say it’s maybe half of a main event. Where did she sleep last night? Did she sleep in the guest room? If she spends more than one or two nights in the guest room then I would consider this moving to a main event however without knowing your fall history it’s hard to say.

You might consider you are going a little Rambo maybe need to throttle back a little bit up the comfort. The girlfriend joke is somewhat insensitive especially when you have been beta for so long I did that to my wife a few times and it backfired in my face. However I can get away with the girlfriend comment with my current girlfriend because I entered the relationship with that.

If she spends tonight in the Guest room that is fine but tomorrow I would communicate that husband and wife sleep together in the same bed and that is an expectation not a request.

Absolutely no face-to-face communications unless it’s a child emergency and smile and be happy and aloof.

Report back with a new field report in two days

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Thanks for your feedback. It's appreciated.

She slept in the guest room last night. I'll re-post Friday where everything is at.

[–]SailorAground5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Holy shit, you need to get yourself and your kids out of this situation. You're beyond saving this thing. You now need to end it as quickly as you can to limit the damage.

[–]SteelSharpensSteelMod / Red Beret6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

For the record, this is a VERY SERIOUS ESCALATION.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

If you're following flair with hardcore red advice as main event how to gospel dude.... come on.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

I think Red is right on this one. She can’t fuck with my kids. It’s bullshit. I’ve lost one kid, I’m not losing the other two to her insanity.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

... and she knows this about you. Your choice how you handle it, but she is a master of seeing right through you and knows exactly how to push you.

[–]RedPillCoach0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Telling her this at the right time in a matter of fact, deadly serious, quiet, calm voice is likely to wake her right up. Telling her that WE have lost a child already and WE are not going to lose another one is likely to work even better.

Try to remember that you are not the only parent who lost a child. A few years or a few decades doesn't matter. My daughter died as a baby and would have been 15 in just 2 days. For the last week my wife has been intolerable and I called her out on it. She said nothing. Just pointed to a calendar with the date. Fifteen years and it comes back like it happened yesterday.

Dollars to donuts this is the source of your wife's anger and probably her atypical behavior with your shit test responses. I bet this is an angry, scared, nervous, self-conscious, woman striking out at everything in range.

It's not your job to fix her fee fees and you can't do it anyway but you are the leader of the family. Right?

[–]FereallyRedHard Core Red2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Preach.

[–]RedPillCoach0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

TERRORISTS

100% on point. This behavior is emotional terrorism. You don't usually have to blow up your home; but you do have to be in a position that you will absolutely not tolerate emotional blackmail and terrorism.

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret2 points3 points  (14 children) | Copy

So, you really think she is moving into the guest bedroom because of the texting incident? Most sane people don't throw the "I can do better than you" and move bedrooms because of your AA'd "girlfriends" response.

What are you not telling us? Be honest or fuck off.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

I’ll add this is her go to trying to get me upset move after her taking her ring off and threatening divorce stopped affecting me. Just means I’ll get the whole bed to myself... should sleep well.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy

A month ago I fucked up around blowjobs and Rambo’d but everything was calm and fine for the last two-three weeks.

Her comments varied from “you won’t find someone else” to “you’re the one saying you have girlfriends so XXX”. Very random and non-sensical even for her.

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy

What about the last couple of months or years? What brought you to MRP in the first place? What were your issues then? Now?

I get it that women are not the most rational creatures in the world and see the world thru an emotional lens. I have seen them flip out for something smaller than your response. But, there is usually something else underneath it all causing this emotional response from her.

Not really sure what "fucked up around blowjobs and Rambo'd" really means in this context. If you want an decent answer you will need to put in a little more effort here to get a good response.

Otherwise, I will just say AWALT and enjoy the peace and quiet.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (8 children) | Copy

Fair enough...

Week 20 of MAP.
Here's the short version of why I found MRP: Sex life sucked. Son died of cancer 3 years ago, became needy and whiny relying on her for emotional support, depression, panic attacks.

From Week 16 and the fuck-up.

I fucked up and probably set myself back two months by complaining about lack of affection and how sex life was boring. This occurred since it was 4 days since we had sex and I was feeling neglected (stupid). I just couldn't STFU, I wanted to win the argument. Naturally wife took offense to all this especially since I was an asshole in the way I brought it up; I went Rambo in the worst way when I thought the anger was gone. I keep comparing myself to all the guys on here versus figuring out my own values and what I want. I've shifted validation from my wife to this forum which is fucked up.

Last few weeks I've been really well mentally. I started Muay Thai 6 weeks ago to get out of the house 2x a week. Went to a work event and didn't care she was pissed about it. Started removing attention last week when she was in a mood (no major issues or bitchiness though - more finger fucking her phone and I had better things to do).

[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret4 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy

Okay, /u/rocknrollchuck put in more effort than you in his comment and I agree with his assessment. She has probably be contemplating leaving for quite some time. A few weeks of good doesn’t negate the 3 years of bad and the Rambo moments. Now that you are becoming “more difficult” as you are executing your MAP she is realizing that the juice just ain’t worth the squeeze. You need to have a decent baseline of attractive behaviors before going all hardcore MRP. Yes, a dominant man is attractive all in itself. But, if you are emotional, weak, and pudgy it comes off as a whiny toddler.

Treat it for what it is. Use it to show your new found emotional strength and that you are unphased.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy

Maybe... it is what it is. She has flat out said she liked me better when I was fat and nice. I read that as liked it better when I was unattractive and did whatever she said.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

My wife said the exact same. It's the shift in the power dynamic and she has finally lost control.

With great power comes great responsibility. Choose your actions wisely and with impeccable truth and strength.

[–]simbarlionRed Beret1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Saying that reinforces my previous comment. It's new, she doesn't know what to make of it. Especially in the context that you used to be so reliant on her. It's dngaf Rambo.

[–]hack3geRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

It's only rambo if he doesn't have the frame for it. I get the rambo thing so we don't have a bunch of new guys eating paint but if you are congruent there is no such thing as rambo - its your life, your boundaries and your actions. He's 5 months in and I don't see anything other than a little girl throwing a temper tantrum because she realizes its real and she no longer is going to get her way through normal means.

Right around the 5 month mark was where I went from dancing monkey / faking it to it no longer becoming an act. My wife did the same thing as she could sense something was different - she slept on the couch and gave me the silent treatment for 2 days. Funny enough it came after a night where said she was never going to give me a BJ again and I laughed and told her its a good thing shes not the only chick with a mouth in a 50 mile radius. After that she went to do it again about 2 weeks later but she caught herself and stopped it and walked away because she knew it wasn't going to get her anywhere.

Seems like BJs are a sore subject with some wives - blah blah blah not attractive something something something....

[–]simbarlionRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I was just using Rambo as a term for rapid change

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yep, so the question is: Why are you still attracted to her?

EDIT: Read more of the thread below.... 2 kids, very difficult situation I am sorry for your struggle man.

[–]simbarlionRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's Rambo. It doesn't have to be crazy anger. 6 weeks is not long to bring in all this change.

Sounds to me like you dngaf too much of the time. She wants a response, cue drama.

[–]Big_Daddy_PDX0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Agree. When the woman I’m with starts this shut, it’s time for immediate shut down. Close up shop.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

How long have you been on the MAP? This might be your main event.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Five months. Dread level 4.

[–]helaughsinhidden0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Nothing will put her in her place better than the echoing hamster replaying her own crazy words

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Did you ever read my post on accusations of affairs?

Do you like being with your wife? If so, does she know?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I hadn’t before. Have now. I’ve said something very similiar. That I’d give her the courtesy of separating before cheating.

I do like being with her. I probably don’t tell her this enough but I do tell her, do random acts to show appreciation, let her know what I like about her.

[–]weakandsensitive0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

courtesy of separating

Meh - fuck separating. Seems like a lot of work.

It's like using a hammer when you're looking for a pick.

If it's just sex that's inadequate, keep it about sex.

[–]Reach180Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Started removing attention last week

This causes more problems than it's worth for many of us.

Have you tried the nice card?

You're 5 months in, maybe stick with it for a while.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I would take the assertive approach with this one and just tell her youre taking control of your life. Assure her that you're confident in your direction and if she wants a "good husband" she needs to gtfo your way and let you become one. Make no apologies whatsoever and tell her she can choose to bail if she wants to, but there's still plenty of room in your life to join you if she wants to, but youre ready to turn the page on the next chapter of your lives together, and there's been enough pain and misery for a lifetime already with the "crippling loss" of (both of your) son.

She sees you changing, and she needs to know that you see her, as well, on the path ahead of you. STFU works until it doesnt.

Now, you need to grow a pair and show her that you still see her in your future, but not as a "harpy shrew" impeding your forward momentum at every turn, coming from a place of fear. (Use those fucking words in your depiction of her behavior, she needs to know that's how she's behaving, if you do it right with a little jest, you may even get a chuckle out of her through her tears)

Seriously take the stern approach like a father having a direct conversation with a recalcitrant and petulent child. You cant keep being a fucking coward whos afraid to have direct dialogue with his wife.

When, if not now, are you going to confront this challenge in your life? At least you still have an audience, she's all but begging you to lay down the terms of her surrender. What else you got to lose? Divorce is a definite at this point if you remain unwilling to confront this.

[–]ChokingDownRPRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This was my line of thinking too. It seems she needs comfort and reassurance that she's part of OPs plan. Dread is a wonderful thing, but once the hamster goes into overdrive and she's accusing you of cheating, you have to offer some comfort. Prepare your main event speech because it's time. Let her know you have great plans and they include her.



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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