Is it fair to partially blame the women on domestic violence cases (assuming the male is the aggressor)?

KerPop42 · 2019-07-08T02:26:51+00:00

Not really. There’s a ton of reasons why a person could choose to stay in an abusive situation. Finances, for example. Where I live, a single bedroom apartment costs ~$1500/month. That comes to a minimum $4500/month in income, assuming no debt. Working 6 10-hour days a week, four weeks a month, means this person would have to find an entry-level job willing to pay $18.75 and hour. How feasible do you think that is, without your abusive significant other finding out?

Another answer is emotional manipulation, either from the abuser, society, or both. “I need your help,” “I’ll get better if you stay with me,” or “are you really going to throw everything we have away over this?” are not uncommon refrains.

And lastly, power dynamics. What if trying to run makes them angrier and more violent? What if your friends will believe them over you? Or what about the victims whose spouses are cops?

But, on another note, what sort of blame are you talking about? What’s the purpose? Some people use blame to decide who they can cast out from society and treat poorly. Instead of blame, I think about what changes need to be made. The abuser needs to be taken out of the situation, made to recognize what they’ve done, and rehabilitated. What do we need to do with respect to the victim? Can we classify the steps we should take as “blame?”

CainPrice · 2019-07-08T04:05:45+00:00

A good abuser doesn't just hit his woman. He isolates her first. He moves her to a new city for his job where she doesn't know anybody, separating her from her friends, family, and support network, and where she doesn't have a job or her own money. Once she has nowhere to go, no friends to turn to, and no way to pay for herself, then he can start getting more offended over her minor infractions. Then comes the hitting.

You don't hit your woman until you've gotten her isolated and in a bad financial situation. Once you own her, abuse away.

That's her fault, right?

selfishsister123 · 2019-07-08T03:47:59+00:00

Abuse quite literally changes the structure of a person’s brain - the abuse becomes normalized and expected. When a person’s brain can no longer tell them THIS IS WRONG, RUN, then leaving becomes nearly impossible.

SqueaksScreech · 2019-07-08T03:48:37+00:00

I came from abuse. It's not as easy as you think. There's manipulation, financial burdens, medical problems, or in my case no where to run. His relatives few that were here would and Christian told us "go back he'll find god and shit".

freebird348 · 2019-07-08T02:39:51+00:00

No. Men are not lions. Pretending that we don't have the critical capability of telling our emotions and impulses no is dehumanizing and blaming women for male violence just perpetuates male violence. Women are no more to blame for being beaten than men are responsible for narcissistic gaslighting and emotional abuse patterns displayed by manipulative women who act like Red Pill is terrified all women act.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2019-07-08T02:32:45+00:00

whose "we", what blame? you mean what people think in their heads? who cares

rasmelo · 2019-07-08T02:09:17+00:00

No. It isn't fair because people are responsible for their own actions, not someone else's.

flamingoinghome · 2019-07-08T11:28:10+00:00

No.

You're falling into SO MANY FALLACIES. First off, guys who hit their wives aren't this universal gang of brawlers in literal wife-beaters. We had a neighbor in that situation (thankfully, she eventually got out)--her husband was a postgrad-educated professional, very cultured, charming to everyone, externally a swell guy. He was also absolutely brutal to his wife, to the point that eventually the police got involved.

Second, these guys generally go for women who are vulnerable, then make them more so--i.e., they pick a woman without much education/career prospects, then say they think her friends don't treat her right, then get her to move to a new city away from her family, and then....

There's also cultural stuff. My neighbor? Her family were tradcons who knew full well she was being abused but wouldn't support her leaving because "marriage vows." I'm genuinely relieved she got out before he killed her.

Ofourkind · 2019-07-08T08:07:54+00:00

This is such a nuanced subject it's really impossible to come up with a "right" answer.

Maybe the victim is dead broke, unable to work, and has no family to fall back on making her survival reliant on the abuser (as was extremely common pre feminism)

Maybe she's mentally or physically ill and unable to leave

Maybe she has a valid fear of being murdered or her children getting hurt if she leaves

Maybe she's young and naive and legitimately doesn't understand that relationships shouldn't work that way

I had a close friend who dated a guy for about 4 years with no problems at all. They had arguments like all couples, but he never so much as raises his voice to her. Years in, he suffered and extreme loss when his brother was killed in an accident. He was insane with grief. He started drinking heavily. His behavior started to change. He screamed at her a few times, once cornering her and yelling horribly hurtful insults in her face. She was devastated, but she understood he was not himself and needed serious help. She loved him. She encouraged him to get support, making appointments for him with medical professionals, suggesting 12 step programs and even rehab. She even got an inpatient psychiatric rehab center stay completely paid for. He kept promising he would get help, but he never followed through. About 6 months after the accident, he hit her when she told him he was too drunk to drive. She left their home and stayed with me for a few weeks. He felt horrible about what he had done and started seeing a counselor immediately. Feeling like she was abandoning him in his lowest moment, she moved back in. A few weeks later, he came home from a bender and beat her face in for no reason at all. He broke her cheekbone and nose. She ended it after that. His "apology" when he woke up and realized what he had done? Threatening suicide.

What could she have done better aside from predicting the future or dumping him as soon as his brother died? She had no reason to believe he would do something like that.

I'm so grateful she left him. He is still drinking and has effectively ruined his life. Lost his job, lost all his friends, etc. Sad story all around.

87AudreyHorne · 2019-07-08T05:11:14+00:00

You can blame her but it doesn't reduce the blame of the guy who did that to her in any way, and so is pretty irrelevant. It would be one thing if you are blaming her for somehow causing the situation, where establishing the context could maybe split the blame for the situation 70:30 or 50:50 or whatever. But thats not the type of blame you're talking about, you're just saying she let it happen which still leaves his blame at 100.

pnadlerlaw · 2019-07-08T13:19:20+00:00

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mIOY2ezMy9A

Also, I’m going to say, “yes.”

I was representing a battered woman.

We got her husband cornered in the divorce case. Proved the lies on his tax returns. Judge would be forced to forward info along to IRS for tax fraud. My client was in a great position. We got primary custody of the children.

Husband was pushing to delay settlement and provided no discovery. Finally Judge was fed up. Judge said, final deadline for discovery, or else you’re getting a negative inference and heading to trial.

Client calls me up the day before the court appearance where she would get everything she wanted. She wanted to drop and dismiss the case.

We show up, I ask for an ex parte session with the judge. Opposing counsel objects. I say there are items that I will not be able to communicate to the court, which are urgent and an emergency, if opposing counsel is present, because of the circumstances of this case. Basically, Judge, opposing counsel represents the wife beater, and if I can’t tell you something very important in private, then I can’t tell you at all, because opposing counsel is just going to go back and tell his client, and my client is afraid of what will happen thereafter.

Judge allows it, and I explain that my client called me up late last night wanting to drop the case. It makes no sense. Her HUSBAND DROVE HER TO COURT!!!! She was crying when she came into court to speak to me this morning. I believe she is only asking to drop this case because that’s what her husband wants.

The judge’s response shocked me, but also gave me a crash course on the reality of these cases. She said, “Look, if your client wants to discontinue the action, I think you’re bound by what your client is directing you to do. You’re not a driver. You’re not a front seat driver. You’re not even a passenger. You’re a car. Your client is the driver. If your client wants to run into a wall, that’s her choice, and you have to do what your client says. We can’t help people who don’t want to help themselves. What do you want me to do? Not allow her to discontinue her case? I can’t do that. Unfortunately, that’s the sad reality of these cases. I know you meant well, but this is really not an emergency. This is good news. It means one less case on my desk.” (Yes, she actually said that).

So, my client withdrew and discontinued her case. She had everything on a silver platter. I don’t even understand why she hired me if she was just going to end up doing this. She basically paid me $30,000 for nothing.

I left that case feeling like I failed her, but there was nothing I could have done more, and she left making me feel like she was happy, even though we both knew she wasn’t.

Just sad all around. It was so frustrating “I” wanted to beat her (as a matter of speech, not literally). It’s like, how can you do this to yourself and your children?

diffdedbed · 2019-07-08T14:24:16+00:00

I shouldn't be mugged if I'm walking on the far south side of Chicago at 3am.

I'm still an idiot for being there.

So blame is a tricky word. If someone allows themselves to be abused and they don't take control of their situation where they could have. Then I don't blame them but I don't sympathize with them either. Much like the first thing people would think about me getting mugged would be "What kind of idiot does that!" not "Its really wrong that he was mugged."

Offhisgame · 2019-07-08T14:24:42+00:00

Even for red pill this is stupid. Well done sir

je_kut_is_bourgeois · 2019-07-08T14:36:51+00:00

It's as fair as in any case of violence depending on the context. "domestic violence" need not exist as a legal category; I don't get the obsession with distinguishing domestic and non-domestic violence; violence is violence and the law has always made a distinction between unprovoked and provoked violence.

If you beat up another individual for absolutely no reason you'll face higher punishment than if the individual provoked the action somehow by first insulting you or doing something else. It still makes your actions illegal and in many cases what the individual did is not illegal but the law tends to make a distinction between unprovoked and provoked violence.

The only reason "domestic violence" is of such interest is the same reason r/purplepill exists: lots of individuals that seem to love putting the gender into everything wheren there is really no need.

reluctantly_red · 2019-07-08T03:37:25+00:00

I have three domestic violence clients who share the same victim. When a woman gets beat by three separate guys in a matter of weeks it may just say something about her.

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abaxeron · 2019-07-08T09:34:04+00:00

To the point:............. Yes.

Changing a partner does not interrupt the continuity of victimization either for male or female respondents, and previous IPV victimization remained a determining factor of re-abuse, despite re-partnering.

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

Obviously, not all of the blame for being abused lies with the abuse victim, but much more than it is allowed to mention by current Overton window.

Is this a fair analogy?

No; lions don't have a criminal record. Humans do.

doctor_trucks · 2019-07-08T13:08:27+00:00

Bntt89 · 2019-07-08T16:30:16+00:00

Tbh ya, many people call it victim blaming but it's the truth. I dont think anyone wants to be beaten but you have to take some responsibility and put your foot down. I mean these are grown women after all if you go back to that individual, I personally feel sorry for you less and less.

ThisIsJustATr1bute · 2019-07-08T16:49:39+00:00

You said it yourself, it starts slowly. Like the boiling frog analogy. Abusers start small slowly chipping at the victim’s confidence. Then it grows until before you know it victim is in over their head. Abusers are also usually nice part of the time. Trauma bonding is a thing too. If abusers were cartoon villains right away people usually wouldn’t stay.

Orange_Paisley · 2019-07-08T17:16:28+00:00

No, unless there is mutual domestic abuse in the home, which does happen. You might feel forced to stay if you have children, or are dependent on your spouse's income, or if you were raised in an abusive family and don't know any better or think you somehow "deserve" it, or if you live in an area with few resources, or if your spouse has isolated you from friends and family and don't think you have a way out, or if they've threatened to kill you or your children, etc., Abuse is the fault of the abuser not the victim.

sadomasochrist · 2019-07-08T17:27:16+00:00

Good luck with that. Hypoagency.

PadThai42 · 2019-07-09T16:59:26+00:00

Two broken people often end up together. I know someone now who has BPD and is with a man who beats her who I am 99.9 percent sure has NPD. Two sick people together should not reproduce.

Pontifex_Lucious-II · 2019-07-08T02:05:31+00:00

Meh. Most domestic violence is mutual. I have a hard time feeling sorry for anyone.

But I’m your hypothetical, I believe it was Bill Burr who said “even hockey has two minutes for instigating”.

[deleted] · 2019-07-08T02:05:08+00:00

Someone once said that some study shows that there's usually a dynamic leading up to DV. Given that there's two: a "beater" and a "fighter" - leaving out the "guy who beats women because he gets off on hurting people" leaves the woman who sits there either consciously or unconsciously pushing the guy's buttons until he loses it and slugs her, which lets her win the fight by crying that she's a victim.

The guy fucked off the convo before I could ask him to cite this source. Not saying it's true, but I do wonder if certain types of dysfunctional gender interaction are two to tango.

MoodyBrizo · 2019-07-08T02:13:58+00:00

Every piece of DV I've ever witnessed was the woman fucking with a man so much that he eventually responded with violence with varying degrees of justification.

rus9384 · 2019-07-08T07:59:43+00:00

What is this question even about? In most cases it's a man who is blamed even if a woman is an aggressor. And when I say "blamed" I actually mean court cases.

CamoWoobie10000 · 2019-07-08T03:31:02+00:00

Most abusive relationship is where both partners hit each other, in the case of one way domestic violence the woman is slightly more likely to be the agressor (just putting that in for context).

I think that if a woman goes back to an abusive partner its her fault. If you go by the "women are equal to men" logic, since a man doing the same thing would be seen as a fool, then following that logic the woman should be considered a fool.

Sir_Koopaman · 2019-07-08T04:44:00+00:00

Meh. Most DV cases involve both partners who are violent towards each other. I say they both deserve each other.

kurwajebanamac · 2019-07-08T04:55:07+00:00

Sure every woman who gets hit by a man is partially to blame, because she might have provoked him and she definitely has chosen him to be her partner. What cannot be justified thought, is the violence itself. Because there is no moral right to physically punish somebody because you don't like them, unless they behave like they are ready to hit or to be hit. But hitting women means you have enough of their shit, and unless you are bound to her for the rest of your life, you are just not justified if you do that. A man can always leave, but a woman is different.

shipiaozi · 2019-07-08T05:24:46+00:00

Ayawawa said sometimes domestic violence are caused by victim, her reasons could be summarize as follows:

There are some punchable people like Ted Cruz, even average guy want to punch him in the face. Even absolutely fine man or woman would use violence if they marry certain kinds of people.
Man who are good at provide emotional value (alpha male) are more likely to use violence because they could provide emotional value aftermath to neglect the damage(kneel, swear, crying, etc), their violence are like high MV woman's shit test.
When you match someone who have much higher value than you, the value gap need to be fixed one way or another, and one possible way is by domestic violence.

Title	Is it fair to partially blame the women on domestic violence cases (assuming the male is the aggressor)?
Author	freebird348
Upvotes	0
Comments	64
Date	July 8, 2019 1:57 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/caf10m/is_it_fair_to_partially_blame_the_women_on/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/is-it-fair-to-partially-blame-the-women-on.255035 https://theredarchive.com/post/255035

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