Is giving a woman an orgasm an example of toxic masculinity?

trettles · 2018-11-27T00:13:27+00:00

I think it would be a lot more toxic if he didn't care about her pleasure at all. An extreme example would be female genital mutilation to substantially reduce her pleasure. It might be somewhat self-serving, but I think a woman aiming to give a man an orgasm is equally as much an ego boost. I don't think any woman, feminist or otherwise is going to complain if a guy gives her an orgasm.

BleuBird18 · 2018-11-27T00:26:17+00:00

No (sane) woman that decides to have sex with a man is then going to yell angrily about how he made her orgasm.

Why is anyone surprised that making a partner climax is partially a confirmation that you are a good partner, and partially about making the other person feel good?

I was always proud that my ex bfs were satisfied, it was irrefutable proof that I was attentive and skilled.

sublimemongrel · 2018-11-26T23:40:03+00:00

That’s retarded, no.

exit_sandman · 2018-11-27T00:47:27+00:00

Uhhh if that's toxic masculinity my pussy is the patriarchy.

BiggerDthanYou · 2018-11-27T02:19:30+00:00

That is bullocks. These left people are the definition of "damned of you do, damned if you don't."

CainPrice · 2018-11-27T03:01:00+00:00

Liberal women have this crazy idea that if you focus on getting her off (i.e., focus on -you- getting her off), then you're making her orgasm about you. It becomes an achievement of yours, an expectation, and a lot of pressure for her to get off, all to feed your ego. You're taking all of the fun and importance of her orgasm away in some kind of hypermasculine power grab.

It's silly. Making your date feel good is just part of being a good date. If you want a second date, she should have a good time. I guess if you don't want a second date, you can just get in, finish fast, and go home. But that seems kind of rude. At least give her a finger while you're going at it.

I was on a first date and literally went down on a girl for like 45 minutes, and she kept stopping me every five minutes or so and telling me to stop fixating on getting her off and making it about myself. I hadn't said a word about it. My mouth was busy. We were just fooling around and after the underwear came off, I got to work. She just interpreted the downright friendly and polite act of going down on her, which I like to do to be a good date, as some kind of masculinity power grab. Completely random.

After the last time she stopped me, I kissed her to shut her up and fingered her really good, one inside, one out, and she came in like 60 seconds, we fucked for half an hour, and afterward, she said that orgasms don't usually happen for her. Especially not on first dates. I told her she's been hooking up with the wrong guys. We hooked up for awhile after that, obviously. And I bragged every time after that, and she didn't mind.

wekacuck · 2018-11-27T01:35:21+00:00

"women’s orgasms do function—at least in part—as a masculinity achievement for men."

Ok but how is that aspect of masculinity toxic? What harms does it cause men? Or women, even?

I think you can make a stronger argument it helps women hang around and women hanging around benefits a man's life.

[deleted] · 2018-11-27T03:36:54+00:00

I'm toxic as fuck

reluctantly_red · 2018-11-27T09:31:27+00:00

the driving force is not unadulterated benevolence, but instead, a desire to prove how masculine they are. It's sort of like bragging to yourself that you're great in bed.

Not seeing how this is a bad thing.

hammerhaunts · 2018-11-26T23:37:02+00:00

It can be, but nobody really cares if it is

Here4thebeer3232 · 2018-11-26T23:41:40+00:00

...he says the authors failed to mention that women's sexual pleasure isn't as clear-cut as it is with men, and that many women struggle to communicate the ways men can give them pleasure—he says the bigger takeaway for women is that "it matters to a lot of male partners if you do or don't have an orgasm."

He continues: "You need to educate him about your body, your sexual pleasure, and help him to realize that your way of arriving at an orgasm could be very different from how his last partner orgasmed, or from how he has orgasms. Help him to realize the goal is pleasure, and if orgasm is part of that, great. But pleasure comes first."

Sounds like most of the article agrees with a lot of PPD

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2018-11-27T00:15:17+00:00

why do you even notice feminism discussing toxic masculinity?

_Neon_Shadow_ · 2018-11-27T03:11:43+00:00

So should we stop giving chicks orgasms?

Snowiceolated · 2018-11-27T05:23:45+00:00

Damn...and all this time I thought sex was about both giving and receiving pleasure, and a woman's orgasms were just a wonderful part of the journey for both parties. Oh well! Good thing this article came out because I now know better - making a woman orgasm is toxic! From now on the only one orgasming is me, and next time some girl says she's about to I'm immediately removing any and all body parts/tossing her off me for her own good. I'm sure she'll appreciate it #heforshe

[deleted] · 2018-11-27T10:55:03+00:00

When I was younger I used to focus on getting the woman off as some kind of achievement. I realise they didn't like it as much as I thought. There's pressure on them to actually have multiple orgasms for a start. Then I realised it was actually kinda selfish in that I wasn't letting them feel the way I felt about being able to give . On top of that, while there is a place for marathon sex sessions it's certainly not every time you have sex. I also think it can get pretty boring for them having a guy just out to please you, sex should be active.

So in a way, I see what theyre saying. If you make it all about her, then you're taking away the pleasure she gets from pleasing you to validate yourself.

Tedesche · 2018-11-27T14:00:01+00:00

I see you point, but toxic masculinity (dum concept to begin with) is about behavior that men are pressured by society to engage in that is harmful to themselves and/or others. Vice is (stupidly) making the argument that men giving women orgasms is harmful, because they don’t “mean” it, but this is Vice. They would argue that a white couple adopting a black child is cultural appropriation.

Stop giving these lunatics this much thought. Let the feminists cite them and deal with the fallout of citing such shitty sources.

[deleted] · 2018-11-27T00:22:28+00:00

To some of these people a Guy not texting back is toxic masculinity and a Woman drowning her children is internalized misogyny, i wouldn't sweat it too much.

KikiYuyu · 2018-11-27T01:05:09+00:00

If you play enough word games and do enough mental gymnastics, anything can be toxic masculinity.

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Mattcwu · 2018-11-26T23:43:24+00:00

No link dropping. Please add a summary of the article or video in your own words and I will re-approve.

[deleted] · 2018-11-27T00:12:09+00:00

I surrender. It's dat hookers and coke life for me.

Aggressive_Beta · 2018-11-27T01:17:52+00:00

Both you and Vice are way overanalyzing this with feminist propaganda. It's quite simple. Men want to make women orgasm so the women will be more likely to stick around and keep having sex with him so that he can more efficiently pass his genes on

This is just evolution. So according to you, Vice, and modern third wave feminist propaganda, Evolution = Toxic Masculinity. Laughable.

shoup88 · 2018-11-27T04:07:54+00:00

I don’t see what about this is toxic.

I suppose if a man places all of his self worth in his sexual prowess, that could definitely have a negative effect on his state of mind. But just priding yourself on getting a chick off is not toxic.

Toxic masculinity means there is a negative effect on someone. I don’t see that here.

[deleted] · 2018-11-27T09:58:07+00:00

Being a man is toxic.

TriadFamilyTimes · 2018-11-27T13:10:56+00:00

Here's how you divide this one out.

If you are giving a woman an orgasm she does not want, that is toxic.

If you are giving a woman an orgasm she does want, it is not.

Therefore building your masculinity on consensual sexual exchanges where you do something for your partner they like and want you to do again is not toxic in any way.

However, building your masculinity on only one thing, no matter what that one thing is, is toxic, so diversify.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

Willow-girl · 2018-11-27T16:02:20+00:00

Who cares what motivates Mr. Magic Fingers?

firewatchersdaughter · 2018-12-03T21:20:21+00:00

The crux of the argument is that acting self interestedly is toxic, even if it’s good. Very few people act out of pure charity. People donate money because it makes them feel good. That doesn’t make them bad, and certainly not toxic (I really hate that word to be honest).

On a scale from most pure to least pure, I would rate motivation for doing good things something like this:

Pure Charity - doing what’s right, simply because it is right. Often this will be extremely unpleasant. Something like taking a bullet for a stranger. Ironically sociopaths have the greatest capacity to do things purely out of charity.

Wanting to make someone’s life better - the reward is feeling good.

Fear of punishment - basically serving out of duty. Sort of like paying taxes.

To make friends - you are really doing it to not be lonely

———— Below this line is “toxic” ———-

To increase your popularity/reputation - “take heed that ye do not your alms before men to be seen of them”.

For money - (televangelists are a good example of this)

In summary, as long as you aren’t making women orgasm so you can boast that you are a sex god, you are squarely above the toxic line.

kandyapplez · 2018-11-27T01:03:37+00:00

toxic masculinity is restrictive and confining. masculinity isn't inherently toxic. so describing something as driven by a validation of masculinity isn't the same thing as toxic masculinity.

flamingoinghome · 2018-11-27T12:54:06+00:00

If that's not toxic masculinity, I don't know what is.

Okay, so you don't know what toxic masculinity is. That's okay--it's a slippery term. It's when men do things that hurt themselves or others in order to prove or boost their masculinity. So it COULD be, if the woman isn't feeling it and doesn't want to come and the guy is being pushy and insistent about it, but just "doing a thing because it makes you feel masculine" absent any other context, is not toxic masculinity.

No one but an idiot thinks that someone feeling pleased and proud for getting their consensual partner off is "toxic" anything.

larrythetomato · 2018-11-27T08:11:48+00:00

Wait wtf do you think toxic means:

Man: I feel proud that I can make my girlfriend feel really good.

You in this post: You fucking misogynist how dare you make others feel good.

[deleted] · 2018-11-27T10:01:34+00:00

And as I said before, having or not having an orgasm is a women's problem. Not men's. That article just proved it if we took it seriously.

BiggerDthanYou · 2018-11-27T12:35:29+00:00

How is that toxic?

You've got to consider that "toxic masculinity" doesn't mean that masculinity is toxic just because the manosphere evidently can't understand any kind of nuance.

Title	Is giving a woman an orgasm an example of toxic masculinity?
Author	Mattcwu
Upvotes	2
Comments	154
Date	November 26, 2018 11:27 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/a0ovg8/is_giving_a_woman_an_orgasm_an_example_of_toxic/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/is-giving-a-woman-an-orgasm-an-example-of-toxic.258856 https://theredarchive.com/post/258856

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