One thing about the concept of hypergamy that doesn't add up

xtsv · 2018-05-26T01:34:19+00:00

Women are attracted to losers up until they hit their 30s where they need to find a successful man to raise the offspring they had with to those losers.

wtknight · 2018-05-26T04:35:33+00:00

Those women on the Teen Mom shows are generally dating the best men that they can attract. From what I've seen, they seem to be fairly social men who undoubtedly can talk young women into sex. Generally, that's all an average man really needs to be in order to have sex with an average woman. A lot of the men who have problems attracting women have social problems. A few might be extremely unattractive in some way.

pinkgoldrose · 2018-05-26T01:37:13+00:00

I am not red pill but lets try answer this, shall we?

The fact that tons of losers have girlfriends and get laid. I mean have any Red Pillers ever watched one of those Teen Mom shows? The boyfriends in those shows are generally morons, but obviously they've had some success with women.

From what I could perceive, most adult women consider most men younger than themselves as subpar (as in "morons"), not that they are wrong. Most really are morons because of inexperience, a thing that come with age.

Plenty of women are more open minded to the idea of dating someone less desirable, or as some might argue they have low standards.

From what I could gather, the red pills say that: women DO perceive they are dating someone less desirable in their view. RP just say their perception does not consist with data. some kind of mix between dunning-krugger effect and the Epley & Whitchurch effect.

This can be confirmed by the research of tinder data as The Median women (50%) perceive themselves as equal to the top 20% men.

The main difference I think is that straight men are attracted to a larger % of the female population than straight women are to the male population.

There is no question there, men are attracted to a larger percentage of females and female population are attracted by a smaller one than males. What is your point? doesn't this fact means as a argument in line with the RP idea of hipergamy?

I think incels and the angrier red pillers are seeing themselves when they see women. They're the ones who are picky and have a type, and they want to date 10s when they should be aiming for nice 5s and 6s.

I doubt it, but I have no data on that one, only personal experience, that says men "type" or "preferences" do not affect their sexual or relationship wise. The low value men accept what they can get. it can be from a 0 to a complete 10, they will try anything and everything when the hunger is too big.

isn't there a saying that men will f*ck anything that moves and sometimes even some things that do not? well... at that circumstance, they may be right.

Million-Suns · 2018-05-26T02:11:54+00:00

and they want to date 10s when they should be aiming for nice 5s and 6s.

No. I'm an all or nothing type of person. That's why I have been single because I could not get the partners I wanted and refused to compromise/lower standards, while myself I am a 6 at best.

However many men are not like me. They're either too thirsty or either too afraid of being alone, or too pressured to show off or start a family with whomever they could get at the time.

Secondly, these "nice 5 or 6" women consider themselves as being 9 or 10 ...

sadomasochrist · 2018-05-26T02:44:49+00:00

Conflating socioeconomic status with SMV. They're unrelated and often inversely correlated.

oftheinfinite · 2018-05-26T01:02:48+00:00

My friend is an alpha male and a broke loser. All he does is get hot women that are my type. I buy him breakfast, lunch, and dinner and so do the women he fucks.

straight men are attracted to a larger % of the female population than straight women are to the male population.

Men are way more varied in their tastes in women whereas women are very unvaried. They all want a tall man, bigger than average dick, handsome for casual sex even if he is broke. Majority of women can fuck these men but only a few can get them to commit.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2018-05-26T02:01:17+00:00

hypergamy in the modern RP context means that female sexual nature is to seek out "the best" man she can get, but that man may be evershifting leadign to branch swinging

best can be best "better looking" than her OR his peers, it can be "more successful" than her OR his peers, it can be most sexually attractive, strongest, toughest etc etc

tiposk · 2018-05-26T00:51:35+00:00

Originally, hypergamy means marrying/dating someone of a higher status. This is not that common in the west because people marry those who are similar to them.

In the RP context, hypergamy means that women seek men who are better than themselves. In theory, a guy who is a loser can be better than his partner. However, "better" is a very vague term. It's natural for our partners to be better at some things, so by this definition everyobe is hypergamous. I wish someone could explain this to me as well.

quicklogaccount · 2018-05-26T12:44:11+00:00

The fact that tons of losers have girlfriends and get laid

The threshold for "attractive" raises a lot. As you're a teen, simply having enough balls to talk to her and ask her out puts you in advantage. They had too little competition. They struck to the inexperienced and unseasoned women as good picks.

The main difference I think is that straight men are attracted to a larger % of the female population than straight women are to the male population.

This would be like that as a consequence of hypergamy, but...

I think incels

Incels are men with incredible creativity to rationalize why they don't do something about what ails them so much, AND/OR incredibly anxious+cowardly to do it.
You'll have a hard time tackling their rationalizations, some of them are quite creative and attentive and will cover a lot of loose knots.

They're the ones who are picky and have a type, and they want to date 10s when they should be aiming for nice 5s and 6s.

Shit goes a bit like this:

"I'm a nice guy, I have a handsome face, I'm not obese nor skinny, I'm loving and caring and dedicate. Why does that playboy thinks he can tell me I should be cool and settle with the chubby chicks that swallow his cum when he's lazy about going for 10s? He's hardly better looking than me, he just works out and buy better clothing. Is that all that is there? Women are fucking superficial.*

handklap · 2018-05-26T13:15:23+00:00

The question isn't. "Is it possible or impossible for men to find any type of girlfriend, even low value men?"

Yes, they can eventually find someone. The question comes down to how much effort they have to put it and the quality of the women they hook up with. This is where hypergamy comes in.

Two equally attractive people, one man and one woman, the man must put forth significantly more effort to find someone at or above his level - not only taking all the risk of rejection, paying for most of the costs of dating, but also having to demonstrate his status, career, talent, etc.

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daveofmars · 2018-05-26T01:22:54+00:00

It's all relative. Where these women are at in life, that's probably the best they can get.

ThorLives · 2018-05-26T18:36:46+00:00

Teen Mom shows

I think a lot of below-average teenage women who are in their boy-crazy phase and/or have poor childhoods (absent, unloving parents) will cling to crappy men who give them attention. I had a male friend who was pretty much the same (raised by a single mother) and was "falling in love" with almost any girl around him. He'd shower them with attention, be on an emotional roller-coaster with (below-average) women all the time, becoming almost suicidal when they broke up with him. He and other people in his friend group (not including me) were kind of a shit show. Quite a lot of them got pregnant or got someone pregnant before they graduated high school.

I also know that you should take the behavior of a small subset of women as indicating larger trends about women.

TheGreasyPole · 2018-05-26T19:31:23+00:00

The fact that tons of losers have girlfriends and get laid. I mean have any Red Pillers ever watched one of those Teen Mom shows? The boyfriends in those shows are generally morons, but obviously they've had some success with women.

Hypergamy means marrying/dating up.

If you're shit tier on the bottom, then "the neighbourhood drug dealer" can be up from where you are.

I think the thing you'll notice about the low-status moron boyfriends on those shows.... is that their girlfriends are even worse.

I think there's a certain subset of women that are exclusively hypergamous, but plenty of women are more open minded to the idea of dating someone less desirable, or as some might argue they have low standards. I don't think they're really any different from men in this regard.

Yeah, you can find exceptions. But women generally desire higher status in mates. I'm sure you can find a good looking guy who married an old chick, despite the fact that males in general prefer youth (Macron and Hugh Jackman spring to mind).

Nevertheless, it's true to say men in general prefer youth.... women in general prefer men higher in status than them.

The main difference I think is that straight men are attracted to a larger % of the female population than straight women are to the male population.

Thats also true. But both can be true together. Women are far more selective than men.

Women attraction instincts are optimised for selecting quality. Mens attraction instincts are optimised for selecting quantity. Thats just a basic human fact caused by our evolutionary history, and which strategies worked best for each sex in spreading their genes through the population.

I think incels and the angrier red pillers are seeing themselves when they see women. They're the ones who are picky and have a type, and they want to date 10s when they should be aiming for nice 5s and 6s.

That can also be true as well. I think there is a general male solipsism that comes through with incels ("Only looks matter!") and in RP noobs ("Sluts are having all the fun!").

But thats not the cause of Hypergamy. Thats a perfectly respectable scientific result, replicated cross-culturally, as well as a RP view.

Basically, it' a basic fact that women do want to have the highest quality man possible. Wheras men want to have access to the most women possible.

The fact that women select for quality is just basic behavioural science, and that correctly leads to the RP concept of Hypergamy (which goes further that the scientific concept of hypergamy, which is seeking status).

blackedoutfast · 2018-05-26T20:50:37+00:00

hypergamy means women will want the best possible man they can get, but that doesn't mean the best man they can get is going to be particularly great.

a woman may want to date a sexy billionaire celebrity, but that doesn't mean she will only date sexy billionaire celebrities because there clearly are not enough sexy billionaire celebrities on Earth for every woman who wants one to date one. a trashy "teen mom" type girl who lives in a trailer park and is dumb enough to get knocked up in high school isn't going to have an unlimited selection of men to choose from. but she will still go for the best trailer park Chad that she can get.

also AF/BB. a guy may be a moron or loser, but if he is sexy and confident and has good game that can go a long way.

abaxeron · 2018-05-26T21:07:52+00:00

Some women are hypergamists; some are hybristophiliacs.

So, yes, in a certain sense, the women who like tattoos, piercing, scars, and criminal record more than business suit and 7 figures a year - are NAWALTs.

SilentLurker666 · 2018-05-27T00:31:20+00:00

The fact that tons of losers have girlfriends and get laid. I mean have any Red Pillers ever watched one of those Teen Mom shows? The boyfriends in those shows are generally morons, but obviously they've had some success with women.

TV isn't reality. In fact it's actually quite sad that anyone would support their worldview and beliefs via Television.

I think there's a certain subset of women that are exclusively hypergamous, but plenty of women are more open minded to the idea of dating someone less desirable, or as some might argue they have low standards. I don't think they're really any different from men in this regard.

can't negotiate with attraction. Even in the BP world there's this quote "don't choose someone you can live with; choose someone you can't live without".

The main difference I think is that straight men are attracted to a larger % of the female population than straight women are to the male population.

It can be the case. The problem is, should men settle for something they obviously have no desire for, or should women increase their value to make men desire them more?

I think incels and the angrier red pillers are seeing themselves when they see women. They're the ones who are picky and have a type, and they want to date 10s when they should be aiming for nice 5s and 6s.

If they are 7s and 8s, should they settle for 5s and 6s? It's all a matter between how one value themselves vs how they value others and each case is unique (if we are to believe that each individual are unique). Ultimately, I believe that people shouldn't be angry. It's a marketplace after all and sometimes transactions doesn't get done if both party's needs aren't satisfied. One should be at peace with him/herself that it's okay not to be with someone.

DB605 · 2018-05-27T17:03:58+00:00

What most of the teen mom and other such "TLC reality drama" type shows demonstrate is more that women do not value intelligence or dependability and usually not loyalty either. Most of their boyfriends are alright, or above average looking. They just happen to be idiots, or womanizers of low quality women.

newName543456 · 2018-05-27T22:14:39+00:00

The boyfriends in those shows are generally morons, but obviously they've had some success with women.

Low intelligence doesn't mean you can't get laid.

If anything, pretending to be dumber than you are can sometimes help. I held back multiple times on intelectuall stuff, because I expected it to bore a girl in question, and it worked.

Bluetinfoilhat · 2018-05-26T05:34:47+00:00

The real definition of hypergamy is going for men with more status and wealth. To men on the redpill/mra circuit it means social skills and looks. Or hell having any standard other than a penis and a smile.

fschmidt · 2018-05-26T06:28:03+00:00

Modern culture is promiscuous, not hypergamous. In promiscuous cultures like modern culture, women generally prefer evil morons as explained in these articles:

http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20929

http://caamib.wordpress.com/the-story-of-your-incel-an-inconvenient-truth/

http://www.mikraite.org/Human-Evolution-tp17.html

Title	One thing about the concept of hypergamy that doesn't add up
Author	aretheyaliens
Upvotes	17
Comments	63
Date	May 26, 2018 12:41 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/8m6ipw/one_thing_about_the_concept_of_hypergamy_that/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/one-thing-about-the-concept-of-hypergamy-that.262230 https://theredarchive.com/post/262230

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