The Wall, explained

hyperrreal · 2016-12-20T18:04:18+00:00

While aging changes Male SMV as well, men aren't considered to hit the wall because young men don't experience nearly the same SMP advantages young women do.

This point in particular I don't think is well-understood by your detractors. If someone has never experienced privilege based on their looks, they have nothing to lose. There's no wall to hit.

Entropy-7 · 2016-12-20T17:26:47+00:00

I agree except for your analysis of men. men, generally, are less sexually desirable than women, but that doesn't mean that their sexual desirability (purely sexual, not for relationships) doesn't also peak relatively young, sometime in their twenties. there are a few key exceptions (people like George Clooney) but as you stated in your OP, there are exceptions for women as well. Most attractive older gentlemen were once more attractive younger gentlemen. Same goes for women. Aging isn't an attractive process. we can fight it as best we can but it's just a fact of life.

Your average guy, like your average woman, starts to go downhill as soon as his metabolism starts to slow down. his beer nights catch up with him, he starts to lose his hair, he has a sedentary, middling job that makes it more difficult to keep the weight off. technically he could work his ass off in the gym to fight that process, or he could make a shit ton of money, but the average guy also hits a wall. that doesn't mean he'll never find love or have a healthy sex life, but he will have fewer sexual options-- just sexual, not talking about relationships-- than he did when he was younger. Yes I understand there are exceptions: "I get more 21-year-old ass now at 35 than I did in college!" so spare me your anecdotes: I'm talking about typical life trajectories. if you're a guy on this board you're not average in the sense that you think about this stuff and probably structure your life around it more than is normal.

alreadyredschool · 2016-12-20T16:57:51+00:00

It's not about being genetically gifted, though that helps. It is LIFTING HEAVY WEIGHTS (ladies, if you don't, you're going to be just all flab or skinny fat flab which is disgusting) and a healthy diet.

I'm 35, and I easily get attention from men 10 years younger than I am. I'm very lean and fit from weight training and maintaining a strict diet, with no drinking or drugs. I have very clear skin with no blemishes or wrinkles. I own my health.

Also, the wall really applies to women who need a beta bux to raise kids. If you are childfree like myself and make a great salary (at a career you like), you don't need a provider. So you can date like a man and not care about his income. Hence, my hot man is 8 years younger than I am, fun to be around, makes much less than I do but I don't care because I'm not with him for funds.

TL:DR: I lift, I eat "clean," I'm hot, I have $$$, I don't need his bux, my man is younger and hot.

Tell me where I'm going wrong. laughs

questioningwoman · 2016-12-20T17:57:55+00:00

To me, "the wall" means everything that makes dating less fun and easy for women and makes them feel less powerful than when they were younger.

Some of the things have nothing to do with her beauty.

For example the simple fact that many of the "good men" are already married and they now have fewer attractive options.

Or the fact that most men in their 30s and 40s have much more experience than they had when they were younger and aren't as romantically deluded anymore. No more women are wonderful-effect working in the women's favor.

Stuff like this. The wall is not softer than you think.

EDIT: this...

While aging changes Male SMV as well, men aren't considered to hit the wall because young men don't experience nearly the same SMP advantages young women do.

...hits the nail on the head.

The feeling I associate with "the wall" is: Welcome to our world.

caesarfecit · 2016-12-20T19:44:48+00:00

The one major point I'd make regarding "the wall" and female SMV is this:

The rational goal of every single woman over 30 that wants to get married is to raise their Relationship Market Value so that the impact of declining SMV is mitigated.

The reason why the concept of the Wall exists and why its such a bugaboo for women is because many women hit 30, realize they've been passed around like a piece of meat and/or whittled away at their biological clock in unhealthy/stagnant relationships and realize the game has suddenly changed on them - they don't have the looks to compete with the new crop of 20-something women, and they haven't developed enough as a person to find, attract, and lock down a quality man.

And yes, this also happens to aging Chads too. It's just a more subtle and less pronounced trend that doesn't emerge until they're well over 40 and they can only land young attractive women by explictly being a sugar daddy.

And for single moms, the Wall is even more pronounced as kids from a prior relationship are a handicap in both the SMP and the RMP. Not very PC, but anyone who disagrees with that is quite frankly full of shit.

I'm sure most people have seen the infamous copypasta of the investment banker's response to the self-professed Craigslist gold-digger: her looks are a depreciating asset while his earning power is an appreciating asset so that kind of relationship simply makes no sense from a male POV.

But I also want to bring things around to RP proper and the sore spot on PPD that is female hypergamy. I find the best way to explain this is the flip side of the investment banker copypasta. A young and attractive woman is a rapidly depreciating asset, so she's gotta make hay while the sun shines. This means she needs to find a man who can satisfy her in the short run and the long run. And if she can't find her unicorn, she resorts to AF/BB.

This is why Chad game has become so prevalent and why it's priced otherwise normal guys out of the market (average women are already priced out of that market, but they have a captive market in the form of beta guys - that's why you see couples today where the guy is better looking than the girl). Your long-term value as a man is a moot point until a woman is on the other side of the wall, or unless you're already beating them off with a stick. And the challenge is as a man, that unless you have developed both your SMV and RMV, you're gonna get stuck with the women who hit the wall hard, and then you're dealing with the worst of both worlds - a single mom that's a 22yr old woman in a 35yr old woman's body.

Unfortunately, these are the unintended consequences of sexual liberation - women had to start playing the short game to compete with other women over a very small pool of Chads who may or may not have long term value. Meanwhile men have had to start over from scratch as being decent boyfriend material simply isn't enough anymore. Eventually however, that pendulum is going to swing back the other way as women stop window-shopping for a trophy boyfriend and start looking for good investments.

TL;DR: All of these trends and concepts are downstream effects of sexual liberation. Female hypergamy has been let out of the box, for good or ill, and while men have been struggling to adapt, the existence of The Wall tells us it will be soon be women's turn to adapt.

[deleted] · 2016-12-20T18:35:06+00:00

Yeah. That "bottoming out" point is that point at which the men she used to attract at her peak are no longer expressing interest in her. It's that point where she is no longer able to attract men she is interested in for sex and commitment. Some women hit the Wall in their early 20s; some, not until well after 50.

DucksCanDance · 2016-12-20T18:43:15+00:00

The "wall" is not the best turn of phrase, it would be more accurately described as a slope. I guess the "wall" aspect of it is that women often don't realize they've passed their prime until it's gone, they don't realize just how much of the credit they get is from their youthful beauty, so it can be quite a shock, like hitting a wall.

I generally agree with the concept but really not the best example of packaging a message well.

NittanyLioness84 · 2016-12-21T02:58:31+00:00

Bring it, wall. I will battle you with botox, fillers, and squats.

sublimemongrel · 2016-12-20T17:16:23+00:00

Part of what is inconsistent about the wall to me is this idea that men your own age won't want you when you're not in your prime. Yes, men will still be attracted to hot 22 year olds even in their middle age, but idk that they just straight up ignore women their own age, or are no longer attracted to them. In reality, most of them probably realize they won't be pulling in the 22 year old co-ed at 37 so they go for women a bit closer to their age.

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Entropy-7 · 2016-12-20T21:58:05+00:00

The Wall is a biological fact where women realize that they are losing their fecundity. The HARD wall is about 35, but women are sort of clever and they clue into this at about age 27.

In terms of looks, I agree with the OP. I live in China and it is a whole different world here. YMMV but the 30-something and 40-something women here put your silly-ass corn-fed white-bread teenagers to shame!

wombatinaburrow · 2016-12-21T09:10:35+00:00

It's nothing more than revenge porn fantasy for men who are still dirty about the hot girls who ignored them at high school.

wub1234 · 2016-12-20T17:22:23+00:00

I've already discussed this. Sorry if you haven't reached this age and don't realise this yet. You will find out.

Title	The Wall, explained
Author	GaiusScaevolus
Upvotes	10
Comments	155
Date	December 20, 2016 4:52 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/5jea7z/the_wall_explained/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-wall-explained.271134 https://theredarchive.com/post/271134