Do women who friendzone men genuinely care about them or only want to use them?

buartha · 2016-07-21T22:17:56+00:00

If we're talking about guys who are rejected and then become friends with the girl rather than those who never vocalise their feelings (which I'm guessing we are as you mention 'men who approach them romantically') it depends on the relationship up until the point of romantic rejection. If he was at best an acquaintance and she responds to his request for a date with 'sorry, let's just be friends!' the she probably doesn't care about him. If they've spent a significant amount of time together before and get on well, then there's probably a genuine desire to keep up the friendship.

most women don't seem to want to engage with men outside their family other than to use them for the various things they need

I disagree with this. If anything, I've found women to be far more gender-blind in their pursuit of friendships than men (somewhat understandably due to male sex drive getting in the way of the formation of platonic friendships, I guess.)

What causes the feeling of being 'used' (apart from obvious stuff like the guy always paying every time they meet up or doing all her homework) is that men aren't generally used to being treated in the same way as a woman treats her female friend unless they've had previous mixed gender friendships since male/male and female/female friendships can be quite different in the way the parties interact with and support each other.

Actions of support such as being a shoulder to cry on when dumped or picking a friend up after a fight with their partner that would get a guy labelled an 'emotional tampon' by certain people aren't that uncommon between close female friends, and the girl might well not feel that she's operating out of line with him because she's done similar things for other friends. He may not be comfortable asking her to do the same because he doesn't generally show support in that way to his friends, meaning that he doesn't feel he gets the same benefit out of the friendship and thus feels used. It's often more a matter of valuing things differently than malice on either side.

hakosua · 2016-07-21T23:00:24+00:00

Girls are missing out if they don't respect and value orbiters. Those guys are very often worth getting to know.

Personally, it's disconcerting how many of my closest friends have been men who wanted to fuck me. I used to fancy that this was because I'm attractive or because, as a bisexual female, I share some important commonalities my straight male friends (namely, a weakness for women). Then one day my best guy friends and I both met this gorgeous, charismatic, egocentric, flaky amateur model. She was always in some sort of crisis, looking sexy and disheveled, talking about how badly she needed to get drunk. After a while of hanging out together (mostly just watching her lips move) she told me she was surprised we got along so well.

"I don't tend to do well with other girls," she went on, in that sexy, slightly stilted way she had of talking, "most of my friends are guys for some reason."

"No shit we get on well," I said. "I find you attractive."

(No need to tell her she's too self-absorbed and chronically late for a straight girl to tollerate.)

Anyway, that's when I had the very humbling insight: my friends are guys who want to fuck me because that's whom I'm capable of befriending. Straight women make me nervous and have less patience for bullshit overall. The queer community is fine but I'm on guard around them, always worrying about belonging. So that leaves straight men; if they're interested in me, then at least we share that commonality.

As I've gotten older, I've intentionally sought out platonic female friendships. But I do still sometimes find myself befriending guys who like me, rationalizing it because I told them up-front that I'm not interested sexually. I've also come to appreciate these friendships more as I've gotten older which is tough because they're not always sustainable. When a friend demands more time from me than my boyfriend does, I get uncomfortable. And emotional suffocation is more the norm when a friend fancies me.

So I keep befriending weird straight guys because I tend to like them, and I tend to care about them because oftentimes they remind me of myself; however, it's still not the smartest thing to do -- not for myself and not for them either.

Tl;dr: I think I care but maybe it'd be more caring to redistrict the friend-zone, populating it with female friends who don't want to fuck me.

Cyrusk4 · 2016-07-21T23:02:50+00:00

A lot of people coming out of TRP are misaligned about what friendship even means, or they can't see actual friendships with women. I've a female friend who I was interested in at first, and yeah I guess I was "friend zoned" but come on, that was 7 years ago... I just got back from her wedding with all our other friends, she's helped me get numerous gigs with my work (I've made thousands) and I help her when i can--but it's definitely more her looking out for me.

lollygagyo · 2016-07-21T21:37:59+00:00

Disagree with this big time. Lots of my closest friends are men. In fact the title of 'best friend' probably goes to a man. There's no 'friendzone'. They're my friends. I definitely want to engage with them and not just to use them for the various things I need.

(I do things for my male friends, too -- like tutor them, help them practice for job interviews etc. People who get this fucking transactional about shit, 'she's using me!!' are often only that way, because they're sticking around and hoping that the favours will result in sex.)

lurfly · 2016-07-21T22:25:28+00:00

I agree that I don't want to be friends with guys who only want sex from me. But if they actually want to be friends I absolutely do want to be friends with them (if we get along as friends).

I've maintained good relationships with all of my exes as friends because I actually like them as people and want to be friends with them. I never really ask them for favors tho.. Don't ask anyone really except for when I move. But I buy beer and pizza for anyone who volunteers to help so it's a fairly even exchange :)

TW_CountryMusic · 2016-07-21T21:24:32+00:00

Not BP but pretty blue when it comes to this subject. Most of my friends are women, including my best friend, and there has never been any form of unrequited feelings being exploited. They never get me to 'do things for them' any more than male friends do. If anything, I think I'm shortchanging them when it comes to support and favours.

I think this is something which differs a bit, in the UK - as in the attitudes regarding courtship and male/female friends. It's very lax here. I'd say it's very prevalent for men and women to have pretty typical friendships no different to same sex friendships.

impossibleworlds · 2016-07-22T10:59:45+00:00

I can really only speak for myself here. Personally, I have minimal interest in being friends with men and have rarely sought out men for friendship.

So when any "friendzoning" happens, it's due to a guy initiating that kind of dynamic with me and me reluctantly/begrudgingly acquiescing to it.

survivaltactics · 2016-07-22T00:28:43+00:00

Friend zoning is what happens when a man goes into it aiming for sex, but fails and ends up just friends. This leaves some of them wide open to getting taken advantage of.

In my opinion, most women don't do this on purpose. Oftentimes they don't know because the friend zoned guy doesn't make it clear what his intentions are. If he wants sex and sex only, and she declines, there's no point to continue sticking around hoping it happens. That's what most men mean by getting friend zoned.

Men and women can be friends but in my experience a lot of the times it ends up escalating to a sexual relationship.

czerdec · 2016-07-21T21:18:36+00:00

I think most women in this situation are genuinely oblivious and think that there is a real friendship happening.

lollygagyo · 2016-07-21T21:40:10+00:00

Could be they like the non-sexual attention they're getting and think he does the same.

Solipsism and such.

[deleted] · 2016-07-21T22:36:38+00:00

My best friends are women and I probably use them about as much as they use me. So a normal functioning friendship. However, I am sure there are plenty women that do make use of "beta orbiters". I've seen it.

[deleted] · 2016-07-22T00:01:06+00:00

Friendship SHOULD offer mutual benefit. Sometimes, one party misleads the other. I don't think that most women want to "use" men like some kind of pack mule. It's more like a trade of resources for companionship/social proof/romance.

shoup88 · 2016-07-22T03:43:04+00:00

It depends on the man and woman in question. If she can tell he's madly in love with her and doesn't make any changes within their relationship, I would bet she doesn't really care about him all that much, and thinks friendship is easier to hand out than rejection.

However, men and women can absolutely be friends. I don't understand this whole argument that you can't be friends with someone you're attracted to, or vice versa. Why does physical attraction counteract friendship?

I have a lot of male friends that I find attractive, and I'm sure they feel the same. It doesn't have a major bearing on our relationship. The idea that I'd only enjoy spending time with male family members is nuts.

[deleted] · Fri Jul 22 3:22:37 2016 UTC

[permanently deleted]

Ultramegasaurus · 2016-07-22T07:57:00+00:00

Most women who friendzone aren't interested in being friends.

For nice women it's just a soft way of rejection, for evil women it's a free meal ticket/shoulder to cry on/bodyguard.

exit_sandman · 2016-07-22T08:41:50+00:00

Well, we have exploitative behavior on the far end of friendzoning where girls have turned their orbiter into a surrogate boyfriend who has the dubious honor of getting his time and attention monopolized by her. In plenty of these cases, I'd wager that the woman thinks she cares about the guy in question, but has a borderline psychopathic concept of "caring" - she doesn't really care about the guy or his (emotional) wellbeing, but likes that he makes her feel attractive, valued and valuable, attention-worthy, lovable, interesting, and so on (also, he can be quite handy and useful - or, to quote Girlwriteswhat, he has "blatant and highly exploitable aspects of significant other"). How the guy feels about that arrangement (and that he's potentially miserable with being strung along) doesn't really factor into her assessment of their relationship. I'd argue that this applies to the vast majority of these close orbiter/orbitee-dyads because if a woman really really wants a close male friend (which also begs the question why the guy has to be male), why doesn't she pick a guy who isn't into her? I have a bunch of answers for that question, and none of them reflect positively on her.

On the other end are softer incidents of friendzoning, where a woman likes the guy reasonably well ("but just as a friend") and hangs out with him because they're part of the same group, but doesn't try to turn the whole thing into a surrogate "I love you like a brother"-relationship and doesn't exploit his affection. This balance may be quite difficult to maintain if the guy still has feelings for them and is prone to act on them (by trying to demonstrate how much he cares for her, which in turn usually takes the form of him exposing aforementioned "blatant and highly exploitable aspects of significant other") and she has a hard time resisting the temptation to take advantage of him, but that's another matter.

Cases where a woman prefers to keep things amicable between them for obvious reasons (who wants to go out of his or her way to scrupulously avoid someone if there's no good reason for it?) but isn't really invested in the relationship or interested in the orbiter personally don't qualify at all.

Princeso_Bubblegum · 2016-07-21T21:07:55+00:00

I think in many cases of this, the women in question don't fully realize the extent that the guy is helping them out. I have seen this kind of thing in person, and I don't think it was malicious from the start, they just wanted a friend and used them too much. Never apply malice to what you can incompetence, women can be socially stupid also.

Then again, I have also heard at least one woman say openly that she was leading a guy on to help her do a project... so sometimes you do have people like that unfortunately. :/

We should all just not manipulate people IMO

Ringoddess · 2016-07-22T11:13:21+00:00

I would like to be friends with some guys. But I don't want to be friends with anybody who wants to have sex with me. I don't befriend guys who approach me sexually, but the guys I try to befriend sometimes get sexual sooner or later and then the friendship ends before it even started. So that's why I don't really interact much with men outside family. I don't accept their help either though, It happens much more often that I help THEM, actually. With studies and stuff.

Wowbaggerrr · 2016-07-22T05:10:17+00:00

I've friendzoned a lot of guys, and I do actually care about them. If I didn't, I'd tell them I wasn't interested, and just stop hanging out with them. Friendzoning is only truly shitty if the guy has no idea that he doesn't have a chance. If a girl still flirts and leads him on, then she's probably using him for validation.

lbspredh · 2016-07-22T06:58:23+00:00

both/either/neither depending on who they are?

[deleted] · 2016-07-22T08:25:18+00:00

I often get the feeling that most women don't really want to be friends with the men who approach them romantically and fail.

True, because that would be awkward. You know the guys likes you romantically and you'd feel like a tease to keep him around after that.

To be quite honest, most women don't seem to want to engage with men outside their family other than to use them for the various things they need.

No way. I have lots of male friends. None of whom I use for anything.

I think some men's "have-sex-with-any-woman-sex-drive" gets in the way of them being friends with women. Whereas women's "just-as-strong-but-way-pickier-sex-drive" doesn't get in the way.

648262 · 2016-07-22T08:54:05+00:00

I doubt many women know why they keep orbiters, but it makes sense for people to live in groups. So in my mind they keep orbiters around for protection.

midnightvulpine · 2016-07-22T16:48:27+00:00

Likely varies. I'm sure some do, some don't. One big factor would be how the man handles rejection. If he doesn't let it go, keeps trying, that would make the friendship uncomfortable. If he gets over it, things can get back to normal. Or she can just be a jerk and cut an attempted suitor out of her social circle entirely. Life has all kinds.

[deleted] · 2016-07-23T00:09:36+00:00

I get the feeling that most women don't really want to be friends with the men who approach them romantically and fail.

Well... it's more nuanced than that. If a man with whom I've been good friends with for a long time or a man frequently in my social group approaches me romantically, I'm not going to cut him off because of it. I value my friendships highly, and unless the guy can't catch a hint and leave me alone after I ask, I see no reason why we shouldn't be friends. This happened between myself and one of my best friends from college, and we still hang out on the reg. If it's someone I don't know well or have an existing friendship with, though, I'm not going to make room for another friend out of obligation. I'd rather have four quarters than 20 nickels, just as I'd rather have a handful of close friends than a horde of acquaintances. Not all women are this way, but I am and most of my friends seem to be.

most women don't seem to want to engage with men outside their family other than to use them for the various things they need.

Now this I just flatly disagree with. My best two friends are female, but outside of that, the majority of my friends are male. This is partly because I work in a male-dominated industry (Fire/Rescue), and partly because I share friends with my SO. Sure, sometimes I ask them to help me out, but then again, I never back out when they ask me to help them. What "things," exactly, do you find women tend to ask the men in in their lives for? Because beyond moving my refrigerator, I can't think of many things I wouldn't just ask a female friend for too.

winndixie · 2016-07-23T17:39:07+00:00

When my computer breaks down will she come by to bring me a spare hard drive? How often does this happen?

yusrasyedahmed · 2016-07-24T12:29:06+00:00

I'm assuming yiure talking about, a guy wanting to take the relationship to the next level, and I refuse , and suggest being friends Is a better option.

In case I genuinely feel heartache towards him. But I'm not going to pretend I love him out of remorse. And I'm not going to be attracted to him just because hes nice.

AutoModerator · 2016-07-21T21:00:37+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair, just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

Title	Do women who friendzone men genuinely care about them or only want to use them?
Author	Croosters
Upvotes	12
Comments	153
Date	July 21, 2016 9:00 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/4tz7f7/do_women_who_friendzone_men_genuinely_care_about/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/do-women-who-friendzone-men-genuinely-care-about.273923 https://theredarchive.com/post/273923

Comments