CMV: Why would any man want women's sexual freedom/sexuality to be restricted?

taapy234 · 2020-02-02T06:20:08+00:00

You are mixing up TRP with conservatism mate.

There certainly are conservative TRP dudes, but lot of people are only conservative in a libertarian sense and not in institutional religion sense.

You might want to post this in conservative subreddits to get better answers from them.

But for our intents and purposes, most of the trp is simply a reaction to what women are already doing and continue to do to this day.

This old trope about controlling women just doesn't make much sense as benefitting men.

its only benefitting a very small % of men, not ALL men.

For a man, what could possibly be better than this? This is goddamn pussy utopia and motherfuckers are out here like this is some hellhole.

Every system has its own advantages and disadvantages.This sure looks like some pussy utopia now to you, but what happens when you grow older? You think you would still slay mad pussy while staying competitive with younger, much virile and healthy dudes than you playing the field along with you?

YetAnotherCommenter · 2020-02-02T08:37:24+00:00

You're right to some degree. "Old school" sexual norms didn't just control women, but they also controlled men. They required both sexes to act against their natural imperative. Women had to forego hypergamy and men had to forego promiscuity.

The idea that "men" invented Mandatory Monogamy in order to control women and benefit "men" collectively is clearly wrong. Many men suffered under mandatory monogamy and the costs of complying with mandatory monogamy are quite extreme in today's no-fault-divorce world, at least in jurisdictions that favor the woman in divorces.

But there are some men whom at least BELIEVE they'd be better off under mandatory monogamy (I think they're wrong, but that's not the issue). Basically, its those heterosexual men whom aren't naturally sexually attractive to women. Under Mandatory Monogamy, the idea is they'd get at least one woman to have sex with (of course, they also seem to tacitly presume that Mandatory Monogamy would include very regular sex from their spouse), and that would make them feel better/feel worthy.

Like I said, I believe they're wrong (they greatly overestimate the psychological benefits of having sex with a woman who probably doesn't even like or love you, and most likely resents you, and isn't attracted to you. They also underestimate the costs of being a sole breadwinner). But they do have an argument that has at least some degree of plausibility.

"Muh society won't last as long"

Like, what? Who fucking cares? Every society has a time limit.

Sure, societies change. But giant social collapse often involves lots of violence.

And a world that regresses back into violent, tribal barbarism favors the alphas/brutes/tribal-chief type of person. The kind of men who complain about women not wanting to fuck them are the kind of men who will be absolutely slaughtered in a barbaric world. They know that they need civilization to even be alive.

This is what most RPers are talking about when they speak of how "civilization is a creation of beta males." They see it as a matter of lower-ranking men having enough power in numbers to extract concessions from the higher-ranking men. One of these concessions (according to these RPers) is access to reproductive opportunities, which then gives these lower-ranking men a reason to work for the future and be productive (i.e. for the family's success). Hence the tribal chiefs had to reduce the size of, or give up, their harems.

This theory isn't one I advocate, but it IS somewhat plausible. Think of it as a kind of Nietzschean Slave Morality. Western mandatory monogamy is/was often premised very explicitly upon Christianity. Jesus of Nazareth was no pussy-crushing warlord, no alpha-male jock, no Ghengis Khan, no conqueror... he preached that the meek would inherit the earth, that the powerful and rich were morally inferior to the oppressed and poor... and he preached mandatory monogamy (despite himself being depicted as essentially asexual in the Gospels). The churches that claim to speak for him typically impose great restrictions on the sexual conduct not just of women, but of men. The most famous of these churches is led by a conclave of men required to be celibate.

That's the elevation of "beta" values above "alpha" ones on every symbolic level.

Again, I'm not endorsing this theory. But you can't reject it out of hand.

And one final point which you need to keep in mind is that, whilst you have a point about it being counterproductive for men (speaking generally) to promote feminine chastity/coyness/reluctance-to-have-sex, a lot of this is actually promoted by women rather than men. And in addition, genetic competition between men creates situations where it can be in the interests of certain men to restrict the sexual behavior of other men.

So don't think of it in terms of a binary "men vs. women" analysis. If anything, you should have at least a trinary analysis of "alpha men vs. beta men vs. women." When you move beyond a binary sex-class analysis, a much more complicated story begins to emerge.

CentralAdmin · 2020-02-02T08:16:49+00:00

Sexlessness is going up and hitting men harder; there ain't no pussy utopia.

MILFBucket · 2020-02-02T06:20:39+00:00

It's a relic of the ancient paranoia over paternal certainty that emerged alongside the invention of property and inheritance.

The common catalyst to all of these was the agricultural revolution, which changed the game from the short-term hunting and gathering to long-term investments in land and livestock, among various other social constructs that followed in a cascade all the way up to what we recognize as civilization.

Anyway, the logic behind the age-old virgin fetish was that if you could ensure your prospective bride(s)' sexlessness outside of her marriage to you, you could ensure that all of the children that come out of her, and thus are clearly are her own, are also all yours. This is where property and inheritance come in: No man who had any wealth to his name wanted to waste his assets and legacy on a child that wasn't even his own blood, let alone unwittingly--what an embarrassment, right?!

But how could they possibly verify who was a virgin and who was not? The long answer includes a list of ridiculous myths and superstitions (e.g. broken hymens) people desperately bought into (no surprise there!). The short answer is widespread use of brutal scare tactics and threats of violence or execution in order to restrict all female sexual activity outside of marriage. A big part of that, in addition to virginity, was adultery. Infidelity was viewed as even more despicable than violence in many cases. It was that much of a cultural priority.

FatmanSlim93 · 2020-02-02T05:37:12+00:00

Cause I don’t sleep around and people who do gross me out.

Monkey_Jerk · 2020-02-02T09:04:33+00:00

For Chad, what could possibly be better than this?

This is goddamn pussy utopia

Chad only.

poppy_blu · 2020-02-02T13:51:17+00:00

Most men have figured this out, and you wont hear men complaining about being able to have sex outside marriage or having a wife who earns money outside of incel circles and non western men struggling to rectify their traditionalist ideals with the western smp.

Joey_Lopez · 2020-02-02T06:48:42+00:00

You fail to look at the bigger picture and your claims of a "pussy utopia" are unfounded.

Females running around fucking whoever they want only benefits the top 20% of men. The bottom 80% of men are screwed (and not in the good way). It doesn't benefit society and It doesn't even benefit the females.

Females running around unsupervised will only have sex with the top 20% of men that will just use them for easy sex. The bottom 80% of men will have to sit around and wait until those females hit the wall and try to make due with the leftovers. Most of the guys that think they will benefit from the "pussy utopia" won't.

So what we will have is a bunch of crazy desperate incels to deal with. That will be very dangerous for everyone. We have seen that incels that can't get a female will essentially become terrorists.

Not to mention that the economy will suffer because we need men to go out and work to attract and maintain female(s). Like Sigmund Freud said, society is built by male sexual frustration. I'm sorry but these girls with their English degrees are not going to innovate and push society forward. We need the men to do it, and if there isn't a decent girl for them to attract they just wouldn't have the motivation to do it. They are not going to do all of that work just to get a post wall single mom hag with a high body count. Instead all that potential would be lost as more men retreat into video games and porn. Just like what is happening in Japan with the "grass eating men". Or they might just decide to skip school or research and hit the gym instead. Because these girls are not going to be wife material or good for the long term anyway, so they might as well get it while the getting is good and focus on a short term mating strategy instead.

women who are free, they're out there working, they're earning for themselves

This is a lie that is deceiving a lot of naive men. Females are not going to respect a man the way he needs to be respected if she is providing 50%. She isn't going to respect him and she will leave him or he will get tired of being disrespected and leave her.

Then society will have to end up paying the bill for all the basterd babies they leave behind. Then we will have the next generation of men raised without a father figure and they will not be prepared to go out and conquer anything. They will be out matched by the boys that were raised in a strong patriarchy. Not to mention that men are not motivated today to work harder and produce just to lose that money in child support.

Face facts, females will not leave any inherentance for their sons like a father would. Instead they will expect their sons to come of age and support them and play the role of surrogate husband's to their mothers.

Also you don't understand that a lot of these "independent women" don't really want to work the way men do. Most of them get older and want men to work for them. They just say that to trick the men into thinking she is his equal to try and negate his power. Then she will work less and less and blame him for it saying "she sacrificed her career for the family". Which is what is used as an excuse to get alimony.

You also are ignoring the plight of the post wall woman. I know a lot of post wall women now. Most of them are lonely because nobody wants them anymore. They thought they could sleep around like men but they couldn't. Now no man wants them anymore because they have a high body count, most of them are single moms, and they just don't look good anymore. They are just not worth the price that they are asking for anymore.

What we need to do is have socially enforced monogamy, slut shaming, and less support for single moms. That way everyone will pair up with someone and everyone will be more or less happy. There will be less incels, less single moms, and less spinsters. Then men can work to attract a female and then work to support their families.

Notsonewguy7 · 2020-02-02T05:30:49+00:00

A lot of it is insecurities. "What if I'm not the best, what if she can do better?"

Most dudes eventually want a "relationship" and the idea of that breaking down because she can do better AND SHE KNOWS IT, sends them into a tailspin. They don't want her to know.

mfnHuman · 2020-02-02T05:27:11+00:00

Who wouldn't want to feel special?

2020-02-02T06:52:17+00:00

The Men who call for that basically end up in two camps.

1) Those who want to restrict the free market and redistribute pussy because they personally are losers in the game. They're pussy communists. For them the perceived tradeoff is better. A wife they're hitched to forever that they support vs absolutely nothing/porn.

2) Traditionalists who think sexual freedom overall leads to negative externalities that are bad for society, or are just grossed out by sluts. They would object to your "society won't last long", the same way they would object to someone treating their body like crap saying "well life doesn't last long". They just don't see it as healthy and want to preserve it as long as possible.

ReignRain95 · 2020-02-02T06:30:18+00:00

because men dont like women having standars and women who aren’t controlled would not willing be with men like them, because they know they’re shit.

some people just get off on being in control it makes them feel more powerful.

Iforgottopunchout · 2020-02-02T06:04:07+00:00

I have fucked total strangers. You know how much I remember of it right now? I can't even remember their names. I have to concentrate to try to remember literally anything about them at all. Did I bust a nut? Did it make me happy? What can I do with it? Brag on reddit?

Give me karma reddit. I'll trade it to God

For a man, what could possibly be better than this? This is goddamn pussy utopia and motherfuckers are out

How about a cute smart wife who can run my house like a boss, who births me many beautiful children, that she loves more than she loves anything, especially me? Who thinks about me during the day and what she can do to make my life better? Who watches youtube videos about how to give a massage, just so she can give me a massage? Who learns how to cook and what to cook so that my children and I as well, are stronger and healthier? Who is more than just a hole?

But "society" doesn't need to change. We live in a society. What is it? A great beast, but a mind and somewhere mystery mom and dad are riding this beast, guiding it? If we go online and make demands, posture, threaten mystery mom and dad, threaten society, threaten the beast wtf does that accomplish? Nothing. It's just you and me and those folks all around us. And ultimately it's just me.

And everyone can say that.

Utopia?

Hey I got a song for this.

https://youtu.be/BNaeVJYGHaU

So I don't want to get drunk and fuck strangers anymore. Picking up dumb teenage girls, too stupid to understand what a bad idea it was to be my fuck buddy, too stupid to understand I was never going to be anything else? Hey I got to rub my dick in some sterile girl. Heck I had a kid with one a long time ago I've never seen. Maybe just rub my dick in holes where no child would ever be born? For what? Muh dick?

Hey if that's your utopia? I've got bigger plans

M4sterDis4ster · 2020-02-02T10:48:53+00:00

Most men cant cash out sexual freedom, because they wont be measuring up until a woman decides to settle down.

So, restricted or not, result is the same.

Jokengonzo · 2020-02-02T12:12:17+00:00

It comes down to value Men have a hard value and we know it. Look even if a man is in great shape and has a good job he is never gonna fuck the top status women he is constantly bombarded with on Instagram and other social media outlets. Why not? Because many Women crave high status males either be it athletes or a Famous entertainers or rich people executives. A female model will never date a regular joe and if they do it’s rare asf compare that with women. A woman if she’s pretty can fuck any guy from Lowest totem to highest tier. The world of sexual experiences and options is near unlimited for a woman with looks. Her social and economic status have little affect on her prospects to get laid. Men know this and fear the competition and temptation modern society encourages because more often than not Women will swing towards the higher branch. Men do the same when granted that status of high tier fucking

Redpiller77 · 2020-02-02T12:21:01+00:00

The men who want to restrict female sexuality do so because it is inconvenient to them, they much rather have more control of the outcome.

Same with the women who wish to restrict male sexuality. Controlling people sexually makes it easier to control them from other angles too.

For example, men are easily manipulated by different authorities and institutions, the ones that tell them to obey if they want to have a wife in the future.

Some people wish women were as easily controllable as men.

RRnn97 · 2020-02-02T13:20:00+00:00

The way sex works in humans and many other animals is that when women can freely chose who to sleep with without any downsides, most women will sleep almost only with like the top 30% of males. This can be observed if you ask like 100 males of varying attractiveness that are 25 years old. The 8-10/10 males will have a body count of like 50-500, the 5-7s around 5-50, the 3-4s like 0-10 and the 1-2s like 0-2.... If the question is sex outside of a relationship(as women gain more being in one) those numbers become even more skewed. I can guarantee that among the bottom 30% of 25 year old males, at least 80% have never fucked a woman outside a relationship...

superlurkage · 2020-02-02T20:20:36+00:00

It’s primitive programming, which doesn’t care at all about larger implications. Fuck as many women as you can; prevent those women from fucking other men. It’s all selfish.

But so what? We don’t have to follow our selfish urges, and this is made easier by adding benefits. Ergo, society. Deny nature, reap the benefits of spreading across the globe.

cxj · 2020-02-02T07:11:40+00:00

Many can't capitalise on the pussy utopia😂

2020-02-02T08:19:53+00:00

[permanently deleted]

carlsberg24 · 2020-02-02T10:33:06+00:00

"Muh society won't last as long"

Like, what? Who fucking cares? Every society has a time limit.

It all likelihood you will think about it differently in the future. Most people start appreciating social stability around the time they hit mid-30's. Not everyone, but most.

The_Mole_Dizzle · 2020-02-02T06:16:56+00:00

Actually, men don't want to restrict women. I would say far more men would appreciate you being less restricted.

However, there is a law of cause and effect. As women give away sex more men start to value it less. Commitment from men decreases and pretty soon society devolves into hedonism. If women are fine with this go ahead but there will be consequences to less families.

TikkiTokkiTak · 2020-02-02T08:14:36+00:00

The inner monster within women needs to be tamed, else she is unloosed and goes on a destructive path.

rus9384 · 2020-02-02T09:48:45+00:00

Betas wanted that so that women did not cheat on them with alphas.

Zippo-Cat · 2020-02-02T08:11:07+00:00

For the same reason why you restrict sexuality of (your) children.

NeedingAdvice86 · 2020-02-02T14:23:38+00:00

Who does?

People are simply pointing out that there are loads of consequences to such behavior and 99% of them are horrible for the person, partners and any potential children that result.

You realize that YOU are dealing in the low rent section of the trailer park, right?

80% of the population haven't changed their sexual\dating behavior since the 80s and there has been a shift in the opposite direction from the 70s by younger generations because they have had to deal with the horrid consequences from the lifestyle you claim to want. And the communities that have adopted your advice, largely trailer park and urban ghettos, are complete dysfunction shit shows of life and unhappiness.

People aren't buying mostly because they value more things in life than just getting their dick wet\vagina slammed....it is just one small dynamic of a well lived life not the burn the fucking shit to hell for a 32sec hump and spurt.

tropiew · 2020-02-02T15:37:43+00:00

depends on the men. and many other things.

2020-02-02T15:39:37+00:00

Its all about control of the children...how they are raised and what their future will be is a great debate amongst most parents, and women who have the right to chose can just pick up their kids and move on...

wtknight · 2020-02-02T16:05:14+00:00

and as a man you not only do not have to commit...you can even be total fucking strangers!

Only a small number of men benefit from this.

2020-02-02T16:10:42+00:00

Do you realize the social, communitarian value of commitment and family past your own selfish, insecure fear of it? Letting alone knowing that water is wet about that pussy utopia being naturally restricted to a sizeable chunk of excluded LVM, for much you live in a bubble.

Like, what? Who fucking cares? Every society has a time limit.

I don't have to morally act to please your socially degenerate interests at my expense nor others. If anything, you're like the cancerous cell that leads a societal organism to die for its own degraded DNA. Society might as well just stop caring about your shit life and validate cleansing of degraded, nihilistic and immoral burdens like you.

Redpiller77 · 2020-02-02T19:54:53+00:00

Only incels and serial monogamist women would like to have the old system again.

JaJammerJan · 2020-02-02T20:20:43+00:00

The average man isn't getting any sex from sexually unrestricted women. Only chad does.

didiflex · 2020-02-03T04:14:35+00:00

Not controlling women's sexuality leads to sex monopolization, guys on top of tree get virtually all pussy worth banging, bottom 30% get nothing and you got sizeable dumpster diver/trash collector class.

chocolatefondant21 · 2020-02-03T04:40:36+00:00

It comes from insecurity. They think they can’t find and keep a woman by their side so they want to restrict her behavior.

Also in old days a man couldn’t be sure if a baby was his, which is a big part of virginity and modesty being valued in women.

2020-02-03T18:57:25+00:00

Well, if you're married then it's ok to have restrictions, for both people, based on expectations and promises, commitments, going into that marriage.

But I really don't think men are trying to restrict women beyond that. That started to change in the 70's and it was clear that we were never going back to the days before that. Maybe some men are pining for the old days, but there are so many distractions for men these days, I don't think that many would choose to go back if they could.

MrShakedown1 · 2020-02-04T00:12:54+00:00

I mean they can be free as they want, but they are poor wife/LTR material, just pump&dump. From evolutionary perspective such woman is a hazard with high chance cheating on your in surge of lust or temptation of trying something "new" outside your relationship what can end up with offspring not being yours.

UniverseCatalyzed · 2020-02-02T06:08:06+00:00

I mostly agree with you but, lets play devils advocate... lets say a dude is happily monogamous or asexual or gay or whatever. So no gain to having more pussy around.

Meanwhile he sees women having kids out of wedlock, who go on to wreak havoc on the community... so crime rates going up. These single moms are getting welfare money, spreading stds making healthcare costs go up, theyre demanding government funded abortions and birth control, etc etc.

So a bunch of negative effects which, thanks to our social safety net laden society, effect our hypothetical make’s pocket, due to taxes...

Theres a term for not giving a shit about stuff happening that fucks with your money and safety and provides you with no personal benefit. Its called being stupid. In an ideal world everyone could mind their own business, but we dont have that world because society decided to tax everyone, and criminals who go out their way to fuck with you exist. So its understandable why some people want to change others behavior if they think its having a big overall negative effect. Especially if they themselves arent partaking of the pussy buffet.

sadomasochrist · 2020-02-02T07:03:23+00:00

Because by the time these women are ready to have children they're ruined and are just a future divorce\failed family.

PrincepsOmni · 2020-02-02T06:02:32+00:00

If you don't care about society, legacy and continuation of culture I suppose this hyper-individualistic view makes a lot of sense.

But if you do then it's beneath even what savages in primitive tribes get up to.

acron5n5 · 2020-02-02T08:49:07+00:00

This does not take into account situation of men who currently cannot get laid at all or it is very hard for them and who also appear to be one of the most if not the most vocal group in the manosphere.

The thought process is very simple: the number of men and women is roughly the same (with women slightly exceeding at least where I live), so if they couldn't work and were restricted and there's no legal polygamy all of them have no choice but marry some dude (or their family marries them) so as long as you are financially stable which is more in your control than sexual attraction you won't have your dick eternally dry. Not that I'm advocating this, just explaining although I doubt you cannot understand something like this and suspect you're just trolling.

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2020-02-02T13:29:00+00:00

This is how I look at it:

Sexual hedonism already has the potential to hijack our primal reptilian brains, by itself. We are always fighting against it even in a society where sexuality is more restricted. Now a days society is not only telling us it is okay to be sexually hedonistic, but I might even go as far as to say that it is promoting it by popular culture. (music, feminism, hollywood, porn etc).

This is the equivalent of someone trying heroine once and then everyone around them saying "don't stop now its so good!" Even if they wanted to quit they would not be able to because the psycho-physical craving for heroine plus people around them saying how happy they are and there are no problems with doing heroine would make it impossible. Couple that with a society that has in general adopted novelty seeking in basically every other mode of life as well and sexual hedonism becomes the default mindset even if you don't want it to be. The fight becomes that much harder. As a result traditional men and women are not only increasingly rare, but even if you do, if you are smart you are constantly wondering/preparing yourself for when they are going to fall off the wagon because of all the hedonistic pressure around them. If they don't fall off the wagon there is inevitable resentment that occurs because of FOMO and the marriage is fucked anyway.

You sound like a glass half full type of guy and I think you have the healthiest perspective based on the cards we are dealt. I'm not judging you and I actually tend to think the same, but I do wish we could go back to a traditional society and "put the cat back in the bag" so to say.

In my view, constant non-committal sex is just chasing a high. It's just an addiction in your reptilian brain gone haywire. I think healthy individuals want a family. This is a funky metaphor haha and I'm not sure if you will even relate...but its like playing Madden Franchise mode and switching teams after every year. There is no fulfillment. Sure you can find fulfillment in other ways, maybe you play all the games or something, but you are ignoring fundamentally what the Franchise mode is for: building a dynasty. That's why the designers allow you trade players, sign players, scout players, draft players...its mechanically meant for that. Sex is mechanically meant for reproduction. And reproduction and having children is best suited for a traditional society which seems to only be able to exist if we limit the reptilian brain of BOTH women and men.

2020-02-02T15:39:24+00:00

Its all about control of the children...how they are raised and what their future will be is a great debate amongst most parents, and women who have the right to chose can just pick up their kids and move on...

yoshimango97 · 2020-02-02T16:32:50+00:00

Men who are sexually unsuccessful want this because they’d be getting more sex than they are now despite all the risks.

PMmeareasontolive · 2020-02-02T17:52:19+00:00

Traditionally, one reason is because the very young and inexperienced can make spectacularly bad decisions. And because women are bombarded with tons of sexual options starting very early on, something had to be done to "protect" them, namely, putting a harness on their sexuality somehow.

2020-02-02T18:24:19+00:00

I don’t want to live in a world where my tax dollars go to provide for single mothers just so they can raise thugs that make the city I live in dangerous.

AdolfGandi · 2020-02-03T02:36:28+00:00

Because if you aren't getting any pussy you figure you could if a woman had to marry you.

UniverseCatalyzed · 2020-02-02T05:25:57+00:00

[permanently deleted]

vicistvic · 2020-02-02T07:29:20+00:00

Sex in unimportant. Women are much better without sex. They mature to have higher level of confidence and beauty.

Men are also degraded by having sex and they are fools.

blackedoutfast · 2020-02-02T05:42:40+00:00

on one hand it's nice to be able to get pussy with basically zero effort but on the other hand it's fun to oppress women

Title	CMV: Why would any man want women's sexual freedom/sexuality to be restricted?
Author	kkkkkkkkk-kkkkkkkkk
Upvotes	14
Comments	306
Date	February 2, 2020 5:15 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/exjhxy/cmv_why_would_any_man_want_womens_sexual/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-why-would-any-man-want-womens-sexual.318754 https://theredarchive.com/post/318754

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