Does anyone actually love anyone for who they are?

John_Oakman · 2020-12-12T13:36:08+00:00

I think the more fundamental question that people need to ask themselves is "what makes myself me?" Especially within the context of society (because of the nature of humans being social creatures).

Slyfer_Seven · 2020-12-12T14:04:31+00:00

How do you know if you're "truly" anything? Don't play that game... It's pointless

Does your dog truly love you or are you an easy food source? Surely they would eat you if you died

Do your parents truly love you or is it just a biological trick due to prolonged oxytocin exposure in your presence? Take that away you're just another freeloader milking their time and money

Do you truly love yourself or is it your ego projecting itself to manipulate your insignificance into something worthy of admiration. Take that away and well... somethings are better left unsaid.

You get the idea

Here's a crazy idea, if you truly want to know this answer. Go outside, look around and find old couples and ask them about their relationships. They either stayed together after their "outward markers" faded away or they met after they were gone.

Find out their stories and you'll have a much better answer than you will from a bunch of pill junkies who forgot to open a window before sticking their heads fully up their own asses...

ijustwannabeagoat · 2020-12-12T14:52:05+00:00

I don't believe in an 'authentic self' or a soul-like center of our mind of an 'ego'. I think it's constraining us. If you start treating your lover like complete garbage, letting yourself go and becoming a slob, I think it's rather unhealthy to expect people to stay attracted— because what is the thing you expect others to be attracted to?

You're your own actions insofar as others get to see.

SaBahRub · 2020-12-12T14:51:43+00:00

Are you mostly concerned with looks, because that seems the point of contention here. All you have to do is (hypothetically) take the looks away and see what’s left

Because the answer is no, there is no such thing as unconditional love. A condition is a reason — we all love for a reason, even if that reason is nothing more than “this person makes me feel good or happy” or “this person is genetically related to me”

It would be totally illogical, not to mention maladaptive, to be attracted or attached to random humans for no reason whatsoever, regardless of how they treated us back

sophiebigbags · 2020-12-12T13:25:50+00:00

Yeah for sure sad for people who haven't had it.

I loved a guy who was terrible for me in everyway.. and before you say it not in a bad boy way just neither of us were in positions to be together. Didn't particularly find him attractive when we met, I was better off financially than him, nothing but the fact that I loved who he was even when I tried not to.

wtknight · 2020-12-12T16:43:41+00:00

My wife doesn't seem to be interested in other guys besides me, so I assume that she likes me for being me.

Sage_Planter · 2020-12-12T16:54:17+00:00

This is a great question.

My answer might come off as bitter and jaded, but no, I don't think anyone can truly love someone for who they are.

Why do I think that?

Because my partner will only ever know the version of myself I present to them. There's going to be little nooks and crannies in my personality, my beliefs, my values, my past, my actions, etc. that I might never reveal to someone. Not to say that I plan on lying to my future partner or plan to put on a show. Silly example, but a coworker of mine is known for making people cry during difficult conversations in the office. I could see some women being turned off by that, and I don't know if he discloses that to his partners since it's seemingly trivial.

My last relationship actually ended because of something like this. I did truly love my partner, but in the end, I found out that he had been lying to me during our time together. I loved the version of him that he had presented to me, not him. While he went out of his way to deceive me, and I know that's not the case for the vast majority of people, there's no way you could truly know someone 100%.

iamthemovie1992 · 2020-12-12T20:41:51+00:00

Okay we need to stop this concept that your physical appearance isn’t you. It absolutely is a part of you, and it’s a part of what makes you “you”. Is it the only thing that matters? No, it does not, but it’s an important part of you, and yes it’s most times the only factor that will separate you from being considered attractive. In the same way your personality can also prevent you from being attractive to some women even if you’re hot.

DREADC0RSAIR · 2020-12-13T00:40:46+00:00

Yes of course. A quick example to illustrate this is the love viewers have for twitch streamers. Even if they don't get much direct interaction with them, many viewers feel a perceived attachment of the streamer with their happiness. That's love. Some so much as donate lots of money to exemplify their connection with that person. And that love is mostly from men to other men/women.

The way this differentiates from how women love is that women only love men for what the man (that she respects) directly does for her in specific. A man can be a great guy but a woman won't love him for who he is because her happiness can only attach to men who are within a threshold of criteria. Jeff Bezos means nothing to women unless Jeff Bezos is ACTIVELY making steps towards a specific woman in a specific moment.

OP she could love you, but you need to understand what women perceive as love. For them it mean "My happiness is attached to you right now". That only comes from what you provide her hormones in terms of oxytocin and the vertical trajectory you set her within the dominance hierarchy. She love you for what you do, not who you are.

SteveSan82 · 2020-12-13T05:35:31+00:00

Just accept that women only love what you can give them or what cool title you have at your job.

Men can love a woman as long as she stays the person she was when he fell in love with her.

jdobrila · 2020-12-12T13:06:44+00:00

How can you know if your partner truly loves you? Is that even possible or are we all just aiming for the predetermined definition of attractive?

Well If your partner loves you and genuinely cares about you they will try to understand you and won't step over your boundaries. In general, if a person likes you for who you are they won't treat you as an accessory to their own life because they acknowledge you as a person with their own thoughts and feelings and will make effort to grow together. This is only possible if both partners make a conscious effort.

Also when people discuss love and transactional relationships, it doesn't have to be either/or. You can genuinely love someone who is a drug addict but that doesn't mean they are ready for a functional relationship. Everyone has some prerequisites when it comes to relationships, and that is okay, you just have to find a partner with similar prerequisites to yours. If you want to pay 50/50 don't be with a partner who expects you to pay for things, If you don't want a partner who isn't a gym rat and you live that kind of lifestyle it's okay to not want to be with them, if you don't want someone who is a NEET and has no drive to do anything in life, it's okay if that clashes with the kind of life you want to build. People often take things in dating/relationships personally but sometimes it's just friggin incompatibility, not because there is something inherently wrong with the person deep down.

MasterTeacher123 · 2020-12-12T13:16:08+00:00

Your momma the only the one who loves you just the way you are.

Romantic relationships are all about conditions.

Cimorene86 · 2020-12-12T13:43:05+00:00

I'll be answering these from my own view and how I interact with people/my lover.

And yet our own attractiveness and the perceived attractiveness of our partners is based entirely on outward markers such as fitness, fashion, wealth, and status. This is how we filter our potential partners.

No, only fitness and to a small extent fashion. Like I would not date someone obese and incapable of walking long distances, nor would I date a muscular gym rat. Fashion only matters in as much as I don't want to go on a date with a guy in sweaty, dirty, torn clothing, or wearing an orange polka dot shirt with green striped overalls or something equally absurd.

And yet we still workout and dress nice in order to attract our partners. Visual appearance is obviously very important to both genders.

I workout to keep my body strong and healthy, not to attract anyone. If it happens that they find me attractive it's a tertiary result. I will dress nice if a situation or environment calls for it, but not to attract anyone.

How can you ever know if someone is truly with you for you?

If they've seen you cry, seen you at a really low point, seen you angry or frustrated, call you out if the blue just to talk, buy you small gifts to let you know they were randomly thinking about you, stay with you through job loss, help you work through emotional or physical pain while validating how you feel, and do things that ease your life or make you happy even if it doesn't "benefit" them...They're with you for you.

How can you know if your partner truly loves you?

Through their actions, not their words.

Is that even possible or are we all just aiming for the predetermined definition of attractive?

If you're attempting to fit what you find attractive into the boxes of what popular opinion/mass media has designated as attractive, you're doing it wrong.

2020-12-12T14:36:40+00:00

This is such a meaningless question because nobody can even give a specific definition of "real love".

BoredHouseHusband93 · 2020-12-12T14:38:11+00:00

Erm, yeah, mutual love happens all the time. If you REALLY wanted to be obtuse; you could say that you never truly know someone and therefore you never really love someone for who they are, only who you think they are, but that is, in my opinion, obtuse.

You know if they truly love you because they do things to show you they love you.

EusticeSymington · 2020-12-12T16:50:46+00:00

Was in love with another girl when I was with a objectively much better looking one if that counts? I have had that chemistry since.

ex_red_black_piller · 2020-12-12T17:26:13+00:00

I think people people frequently fall in love with someone who is more exciting than them.

LastHumanBeing · 2020-12-12T17:56:10+00:00

We're all inherently selfish creatures. So in my opinion you never love a person for who they are, you love them from an egocentric perspective. I love my boyfriend for how he treats others and how he's passionate about science (some examples). But I love these qualities because they'll suit my life in the future. We're not solitary species which drives the need for companionship and we have a need to procreate which involves choosing the right partner with the best genetics to do so in order for each of our own offspring to evolutionary succeed. The way our culture is set up the best way is to merge both of this factors i.e. procreate with your life companion. But it all stems from personal benefits. And then there are biochemical processes that go off in our brain which we interpret as feelings towards a person.

The same goes for him how he loves my personal qualities. But he's into it because they'll fit into his future. If we remove the egocentric aspect, then yes I love my boyfriend for who he is. I love the mix of how he wakes up with only one alarm going off, how he's calm and yet super passionate, how he's super ambitious but doesn't need more than a snowy day to make him happy. I love that he's super into Christmas but is not religious, that he's not argumentative and how excited he gets when he's showing me his fancy pen. All this and much more is a part of who he is and I love him for who he is.

With all that said I'm attracted to his broad shoulders and he's attracted to my tiny waist and big butt because of how genetic health is perceived.

When all of that combined surpasses a threshold for one to consider a LTR and the same happens for the other person you make a choice to stick together = marriage even if there's always someone better. Because watching a movie that is a favorite for both and eating pizza which is favorite food for both in a house you each paid 1/2 for while your child who one dropped off in school and another picked up from school is sleeping and having sex as a result of mutual attraction after getting to bed is as good as it gets for many in 21st century.

rubbooyuri · 2020-12-12T18:17:03+00:00

All you have to do is take away the subject of concern and you’ll have the answer. Is it looks? Money? Sex? Status? Social/biological role? Whatever would end the feeling of love is the “condition”

Th0ma5_F0wl3r · 2020-12-12T18:22:38+00:00

Anyone who’s been through a weight loss journey will surely have noticed a difference in how they are treated.

True.

But it's only true to a certain degree.

I've had this experience, but it only really makes an impact on first impressions.

Don't get me wrong, first impressions count for a lot, but they cannot overcome long-term shittiness or more mundanely, incompatibility of one kind or another.

How can you ever know if someone is truly with you for you?

As others have suggested in the thread, you're asking fundamentally the wrong question.

A 'real' relationship is based on experiences which you build together, live together.

At some point, leaving that person would mean tearing those experiences away from your very own self and who you are.

The moment that is unbearable or even just unthinkable - that's when you know you are truly for someone.

And that includes all those times when you think you just feel like you can't stand the sight of them (and on some days, you will feel that way).

Whether they are truly for you in the same way?

On some level you can never fully guarantee that, but you eventually come to an understanding of sorts.

mountainofjoy · 2020-12-12T18:55:04+00:00

This is getting all rather too metaphysical for me, but simply put, yes, I love my husband for who he is.

It helps that he knows who he is really well and is comfortable with it. That's part of the key - it can be harder to answer the question if you're floundering around or being "someone else". My husband is unabashedly himself and I've loved him for it for years before we were even dating.

There were people in my friend circle who also found him attractive and other people in my friend circle who would make fun of him because they misunderstood him. I found myself verbally defending him when he wasn't around for a reason I didn't understand until later when I realized I actually loved him. I don't want him to be anyone or anything else.

DXBrigade · 2020-12-12T19:56:56+00:00

Yes because your physical appeareance is part of who you are. I Believe who you are is more than personality.

2020-12-13T01:40:19+00:00

To me it seems like a catch 22. I need to look good in order to attract a partner, but if I do: How do I know she actually likes me and is not just using me as a self esteem or status boost?

Women are attracted to how a man makes them feel. At first, this is done visually. Height, build, clothes, tattoos, many different markers as you said, these create feelings of smallness, awe, and charm in a woman. After that initial creation of attraction, a man has to follow that up with making a woman feel desired and lusted after.

No form of love is truly selfless. In a lot of ways women gain self-esteem through men (that they desire themselves) lusting after them.

So the question is more about how much you feel you extending yourself. In my experience, men should naturally be able to make a woman feel desired. This is about the man, not the woman.

flamingoinghome · 2020-12-13T16:42:46+00:00

This is a false dichotomy.

How you take care of yourself, how you dress, how you behave, how you present yourself--these are part of "who you are". If I quit grad school and started eating junk food and smoking weed all day, I would be a different person than who I am now. If I started wearing full Instagram makeup all the time and going clubbing, I would be a different person than I am now.

People change. They act certain ways because they want certain things. These are all part of them.

The trick is finding someone who loves the same parts of you that you love about yourself. But you have to know each other pretty well to get into that.

tyg9 · 2020-12-16T23:32:29+00:00

If someone loves you partly because of how you look they love you for who you are as much as anything else. If they cared only about how you look that might be a problem. Every person cares something about how potential sex partners look even if they only care that they are human.

JohnDoe9564 · 2020-12-12T13:16:00+00:00

Unconditional love doesn't exist. Your husband of 50 years could you leave you for a 25 year old any moment

All it takes is one moment for it all to fall apart

Willow-girl · 2020-12-12T13:32:29+00:00

Your looks are part of "you."

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trethethrowaway · 2020-12-12T13:23:42+00:00

No. Personality is just one component of in an ensemble of causes behind why people may like someone. Other significant factors may include looks, height, income, status etc. which have all been documented to significantly alter not only ones dating success but social interactions and even career performance. The concept that you could be loved for who you are is simply BP pandering like "looks aren't important", or "there's someone for everybody" which are actually just parroted to mask or cope with the discomfort and pain of the inconvenient truths.

SonicBackScratcher · 2020-12-12T16:19:46+00:00

In science fiction a species may become beings of pure energy. Their only characteristic is their mind, because they are just a consciousness.

This is not that time.

I'm tallish, I'm lean, I've got a good job, I'm this I'm that.

THATS ME. YOU ARE YOU.

If I quit my job, get fat, stop bathing, and decide eating foods that make me fart the most is a fun hobby, thats the new me and that new me would really really piss off my wife.

You are a package deal. Your looks, your wealth, your brain.

I've had women who had sex with me because they think I'm smart, and they aren't lying as to why, but they aren't saying it took enough of the rest for smart to be "the reason".

How can you know if your partner truly loves you?

I'll tell you mine. I die, my wife gets minimum 3 million, maybe 4, my kids are old enough that money plus what we have would keep her without working quite nice for the rest of her life. Twice I've been sick in a way that seemed possibly dangerous, once was a weird thing which mimicked symptoms of a heart attack, the other was a fun virus. I die shes rich. All she did was worry about me, to the point I had to calm her down about it, and not worry (I knew I'd be fine in both cases).

On the flip side same thing happened to a friend of mine, he actually had a heart attack. He told me after he recovered, "I couldn't tell if she cared if I lived or died". She divorced him 2 years later.

Notsonewguy7 · 2020-12-12T19:25:37+00:00

I think siblings and parents love people for who they are. But not romantic partners.

TheBookOfSeil · 2020-12-13T06:59:09+00:00

I do but you have to be someone worth loving. Nobody is going to love you for who you are if you're a terrible person with no redeeming qualities.

87AudreyHorne · 2020-12-13T08:37:00+00:00

What else can you even love them for? If its for something else then it isnt love

Zonkey_Zeedonk · 2020-12-13T14:20:21+00:00

I can say with certainty I’ve never dated anyone I don’t love for who they are, but you don’t necessarily know someone “for who they are” on a first meeting.

I think attractive traits are sort of a “foot in the door” situation, because not every person has the time or energy to get to know every single other person to see if their personalities mesh. Unfortunately, it isn’t feasible to give everyone who wants a chance a chance. Attractive traits: whether physical or “surface level” (sense of humor, lifestyle, having interesting hobbies/talents, etc...) are often what intrigues people first, then you get to know the person a bit more and see if you actually like them or not.

Those surface level traits, however, are not strong enough attractive forces to make you want to maintain something with someone you don’t actually like in a longer-term way.

Sewud · 2020-12-14T01:58:58+00:00

I love people that I'm exposed to, it's that simple.

luckecage · 2020-12-14T03:19:36+00:00

I think a lot of this sounds like per Bullshit and it just goes home with all your guys his insecurities that you have

hanhanjackiechan · 2020-12-14T15:27:36+00:00

Late to this, but I wanted to add my perspective as a woman in my 30s who is married, happily. All through my 20s, every relationship I was in was with men who were exactly 6’ 4” , physically fit and relatively successful. My husband is 6’ 4” , fit and successful. These qualities are what attracted me to these men, but these qualities don’t affect who the man is at his core. That is why all of my previous relationships didn’t workout, despite their shared external markers of desirability with my husband. You have to get your foot in the door with generally attractive qualities (whatever they are). After that is when the essence of who you “are” comes into play, as to whether or not you are loved by another person.

Sid_Insidious · 2020-12-15T05:58:18+00:00

There are two camps of people.

1) Relatives and people I don't want sex from.

2) People I might want sex from.

Once you categorise your relationships into those two pots, you'll have your answer.

katiguess · 2020-12-17T02:59:10+00:00

As a bisexual woman I’ve found it easy to love women because we deeply understand eachother through shared experiences and conversation and I come to love her for truly who she is. I find it harder to find a man as open to understanding eachother on that deep of a level and I can’t love someone for who they are if I don’t know all of their ins and outs.

Icunvme66 · 2020-12-12T13:15:31+00:00

Tbh I’ve noticed the more someone likes themselves the less concerned they are with whether someone else likes them or not. The more insecure the more assurance you need. I think maturity is when you understand people aren’t straight jackets. You finally accept the fact that someone can love you yet still think the barista at Starbucks was cute. That you can love me yet not necessarily like me at every minute of every day. I understand now that people who are really ready for a relationship are people who are at peace with people being human. They don’t expect people to not be people. They understand balance. They understand it’s possible to have boundaries yet not expect people to be Saints all the time. So how do you know your partner loves you? That’s easy...through their all around behavior towards you. Love isn’t a mystery.

TheJim66 · 2020-12-12T13:24:03+00:00

Women will never love you unconditionally. Hypergamy will never let them to do so. They can however love you and genuinely desire you.

I think men can love relatively unconditionally. Just be relatively attractive to them, have a nice personality, don't be a slut and you are golden. Fuck, depending on how desperate the man is even those things are optional.

I don't love my GF just because she is hot. She is pretty but I've been with hotter women. I love her because she has an amazing personality.

Barneysparky · 2020-12-12T13:17:37+00:00

[deleted]

Mrs_Drgree · 2020-12-12T13:18:58+00:00

[removed]

Title	Does anyone actually love anyone for who they are?
Author	ijustwannabeagoat
Upvotes	26
Comments	119
Date	December 12, 2020 12:29 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/kboc4n/does_anyone_actually_love_anyone_for_who_they_are/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/does-anyone-actually-love-anyone-for-who-they-are.553702 https://theredarchive.com/post/553702

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