A question to FDS members: why do you think there are women who are against FDS?

BasieSkanks · 2021-01-05T20:02:31+00:00

I think it’s a combination of factors.

The first, and perhaps most important factor, is societal conditioning. Society trains women to settle for less in their relationships pretty much from birth. All the Disney films centre around a HVW settling for a LVW and living happily ever after, even when that man is a literal beast (you know the film I’m talking about). Society tells women to put themselves last, and men take full advantage of this. Conversely, men are not raised to be good partners. FDS did a Reddit study a while back, where the mods invited men onto the sub and asked them to explain what they had to offer. The answers were absolutely shocking, and it was clear that even men didn’t know what they had to offer a woman. On the other hand, women are taught we have to look good to attract a man. We have to know how to cook, clean, be a sexual goddess, dress well, etc, because if we don’t, we can kiss our chance of romance goodbye.

The second factor is straight up denial. The world of dating is consistently worse than women have been led to believe. It’s not fair, and the game is fully rigged against us. FDS is unpopular, because it tells the truth about men and their approach to dating in an unapologetic and blunt way. Before I started reading and following radical feminists, I, too, was in denial. But once i became aware of just how anti-woman society is, I couldn’t unsee it. I was forced to question everything I had grown up believing. Not everyone is ready for this level of realisation, hence why it’s easier for women to remain in denial.

The third factor is women acting like agents of the patriarchy. Some women are just happy to act against their own interests, even when it doesn’t really make them better off. It kinda goes back to the first factor, in that society has convinced women that they should all strive to obtain male approval, even though male approval is abundant, low value and fickle.

tellmesomething11 · 2021-01-05T20:44:57+00:00

Some women just feel like they know everything🙄 It usually takes getting hurt to realize you don’t know shit about men and how they process relationships.

I used to feel proud for paying for things. The reality is I had low self worth and didn’t believe anyone would stay with me otherwise. It’s a pick me dance. Now I don’t care, I’m back to the vibe I had in high school, I don’t pay and I’m enjoying my hobbies and living life. Somewhere down the line, life got me twisted and that’s not happening ever again.

azureangel35 · 2021-01-05T20:19:27+00:00

FDS can be a harsh as hell wake up call to our own former or current cool girl/pickme behavior. You need to be able to think critically and unemotionally about men, feminism and life for you to grasp the full scope of FDS principles. It's easier to hate it. That requires no deep dive into our own issues like being conditioned to be a blindly nurturing libfem bangmaid. I nearly choked when I read the handbook. It was a scalding hot gulp of coffee on my porn apologizing, NVM idolizing tongue. You have to love yourself to apply FDS; and put your own wellbeing and mental health above all else. FDS is not for the faint of heart.

misszazie · 2021-01-05T19:13:58+00:00

One, the waiting for sex. This was a hard thing for me to commit to bc I like sex. And yeah, the hedonist in me wants to know if we're compatible bc it does matter in a relationship. I understand why it's part of the handbook better now, but when I first read that part I literally thought, no fucking way.

A bigger reason is it runs contrary to what we've been told is equality. Opening our own doors, paying our own meals, initiating dates, and not needing commitment.

Idk who was speaking for women when they thought equality meant imitating men, but they were wrong. Our biological differences mean we have social differences. Wanting to be paid equally and not get raped should have been a much bigger priority for feminism, someone fucked up.

FDS is equality without erasure of gender roles. And for many educated, liberal women, that seems like regression, not progress.

TheOGJammies · 2021-01-05T21:42:50+00:00

Honestly, because it's a much more bleak outlook on men than the fairytale and romcoms would have you hope for or believe. I think a lot of women would prefer to live the fantasy, and I don't blame them. Who doesn't love a little magic and romance?

It takes some experience with life literally never lining up with what you've been told by your family/friends and/or the media targeted toward women and girls for smart women to start asking questions. Especially after you have kids or go through some kind of life stressor, and then you look at your LVM you attached yourself to and realize he was never a prince charming and never will be, and he will never show up for youu the way you need. And Then when your relationship to a LVM ends in catastrophe there's a whole second set of media there to validate women's victimhood narratives and position them as ever sacrificing helpless martyrs.

Secondly, it's easy to write off women like us as "unlucky" or nitpick that something is wrong with us than to start believing the totality of women's social conditioning is a lie. I mean that is a big thing to grasp.

I hear a lot from women who hate this sub that "yeah, I've had some bad experiences but I would never let it consume me like those women". Not realizeing their experiences are not uncommon, and unless there is some kind of concerted effort on their part to weed out the bad actors they're going to continue to be victims.

autumnxo92 · 2021-01-05T19:21:32+00:00

[deleted]

sikedyke · 2021-01-05T20:07:11+00:00

I think a lot of women just don’t know what fds actually is. Everytime we get mentioned in any other space than our own, there will be a trickle of obsessed lvm that will do their absolute best to misrepresent fds in any way possible.

We’re raging female incels who want to murder men. We’re awful sjws who commit hate crimes. Blah blah blah. Men are terrified of this community growing, so they are actively sabotaging women from even thinking about joining.

Mcccy · 2021-01-05T19:31:38+00:00

Honestly, attention. From men. "Look at me I'm the cool girl who doesn't agree with standards and those MEAN women with standards!"

2021-01-05T20:11:13+00:00

We tend to throw our gender under the bus to impress men.

Mostly because the male mating strategy runs against the grain of the female survival instinct.

The closer a woman is to a man she wants to impress, the sooner she'll sacrifice her entire life.

Unless she decides she doesn't want to.

Anti-feminist politics are often just a ton of women sacrificing themselves, and agreeing with each other about it.

Nothing is new about this.

Gourmay · 2021-01-05T20:15:00+00:00

Media, film, songs etc. has brainwashed us into thinking love is complicated, explosive, amongst other things. They don’t make films about normal healthy lasting relationship. In fact the people I know in those relationships rarely talk about them or post about it on social media.

AyemHerself · 2021-01-05T22:08:45+00:00

When I first came across this sub, I was intimidated. The ideas here fly in the face of today's dating advice which I still thought was how things should go. In a perfect world they might, but this isn't it. I also had abysmally low self esteem at the time so the idea that I could be the prize someone wanted to be with was laughable. I didn't think I was the kind of woman guys would pursue, and I was in full pickme mode trying to secure some scraps for myself.

FDS challenged a lot of what I knew about myself and dating. It also provided a lot of context to the pain I experienced with my pickme version of dating. Where my previous influences told me I wasn't being open minded enough, or demanding too much, FDS made me realize I was being taken advantage of.

It was scary at first, but I think a lot of women retreat at that initial fear and don't read further into why the handbook says what it does.

Jiou112 · 2021-01-05T22:17:07+00:00

So I actually left FDS after joining at first. It seemed very aggressive and there were somethings I didn't initially agree with, before I really thought/learned about them. It was mainly ignorance, and being uninformed 🤷‍♀️ It only lasted a few weeks at most, until I came back for the things I did agree with. Now I've learned enough were I seldomly see a post I don't agree with. And those posts aren't handbook centered, and I see the validity. So I really do think it is ignorance. Coming from a prior super libfem, if they took the time to learn about what we post here, they would get it. They just don't, sadly.

Suspicious-Leg-1407 · 2021-01-05T20:15:34+00:00

Culture.

Some cultures have such low expectations of their males that it necessitates grooming women to accept rape.

gcsubthrow · 2021-01-05T22:19:21+00:00

It’s a hard pill to swallow when you realize you were or are a pickmeisha and what that concept even is. My awakening when I found this sub was brutal. I felt angered at myself, men, and society as a whole; men for creating the systems we have in place and regularly enforcing them, and the women who also help enforce it via pickmeism, and myself for falling victim to the traps when everything inside of me screamed no but I didn’t have the mental framework to properly express and work out why I had those feelings.

In short, it’s easier to not do the painful inner work and maintain status quo when that’s all you know.

unbelyevable · 2021-01-05T19:21:10+00:00

To me, this is honestly a loaded question. It has been my experience that the "boy-crazy" (what I called pickmeishas in high school 😂) pickmeishas are stuck in their ways. They don't want to change because they have male attention, "validation" whatever. And we can sit her and delve into why that is psychologically.. lack of attention from a father, insecure, etc. There are a lot.

Then the others I've personally experienced are the old-fashioneds. The martyrs. "Women were meant to get married, do all the cooking and cleaning, and have his babies!" They're stuck in their ways. And whether that's a "this is the way" or "this is just the way thats proven wOrKs." I'm not sure...

I'm sure there are more reasons, but those are the two most prevalent who seem most against FDS to me.

SamuelaTheThrifty · 2021-01-05T23:42:44+00:00

I think many of these women are in denial about the true nature of men. They don’t understand that men have a different social reality to us, evaluate their worthiness by different rules, one of them being how capable they are of manipulating and controlling women.

spicyveggieramen · 2021-01-06T00:25:16+00:00

They’re confused and delusional. The majority of the people giving shit advice on dating subreddits are women. A woman asks how to tell their fiancé they don’t like the ring they picked and she gets bombarded with other women calling her materialistic and saying they’d be happy if their man gave them a ring pop (not even being funny, I’ve seen it several times). Women are socially conditioned to accept less so they feel angry when they see women asking for more.

Another part is denial. I used to partake in FWB relationships way before I joined FDS and if I had read that women can’t genuinely enjoy casual sex, I’d have felt angry and thought it was bs. I know now that I was subconsciously trying to connect with the ones I liked, and look bad and feel nothing but disgust at the thought of letting the ones I didn’t even like see and know me in that that way. Imagine being in love with a bum who doesn’t call or answer your texts and logging on to see us say he’s LV. They’re not ready to hear it so the whole sub gets written off as being full of crazy, bitter women.

ihavenoideadwhatimdo · 2021-01-05T19:35:47+00:00

I believe they misinterpret and take it that we’re promoting playing games while dating. Women who have been played by men worry that by following these tactics, they could be hypocritical, playing games the same way many men do. They don’t understand our tactics revolve around drawing healthy boundaries and self-perseveration. They strike me as the type to wear their heart on their sleeve, and fail to realize that makes them more vulnerable for abuse and unfulfilling relationships.

nanofarm · 2021-01-05T19:32:00+00:00

Social conditioning is the short answer.

Summerisle7 · 2021-01-05T19:47:36+00:00

I don't spend a lot of time debating FDS with anyone online or IRL, nor do I subject myself to dedicated anti-FDS forums. When I do come across women criticizing FDS in the wild, it's been a certain kind of uberliberal, child-free, "sex positive," "sex worker positive," "kink friendly," porn accepting, third wave "feminist' woman who's doing it. The kind of person who refers to every male as a "dude." Not to generalize, this is just my own experience.

crapcakes0987 · 2021-01-06T01:02:35+00:00

I have a confession: I made a Pickme type post in February or so. FDS copied my post on here and tagged my name. The members of this group ROASTED me, and I was quite upset. But I started to look into the group some more, and by August, I had joined FDS and started thinking like a member. Sometimes it's denial. I denied that FDS was good in February especially after I got roasted that day. But after I started lurking, it opened my eyes. I needed that wake-up call. Sometimes, others need it too, but it takes a while to sink in.

fdsonlynoscrubs · 2021-01-06T02:39:30+00:00

Ok, the first time my friend told me about FDS I disagreed with the premise because I believed that men and women were fundamentally equal. Equally intelligent, emotional, capable, etc. Now, I no longer believe this. I think men, in general, are lacking in a lot of these areas. Of course not all men, but that is why you have to be ruthless about weeding out the LVM and only date the HVM. I just “get that” now in a way I didn’t understand before. I wasn’t coming from a bad place, just maybe a more idealistic and humanistic place about the general population of men.

2021-01-06T04:32:09+00:00

I think it's because men hate FDS women, so some women want to distance themselves from women that men hate because either they know how dangerous men are to women they hate or they don't want to be single. These women don't want to be on men's bad side, so they try to comply.

d33n3r_ · 2021-01-06T03:32:46+00:00

The same reason some women are anti feminists, against women’s rights, etc. Some of them are ignorant, some are brainwashed, some are misogynists themselves. It’s sad

pinkcloudzzz · 2021-01-06T04:02:37+00:00

Internalized misogyny

FireflySky86 · 2021-01-06T01:46:57+00:00

I think I found this sub at the right time for me, when I was open to it. There were some things I was skeptical about, like waiting for sex and not splitting the bill for dates, but I put those thoughts on the back burner and waited to hear more. I'm still in the process of doing this and changing my ways but giving myself the time to process the information has really helped to change my mind, and some people aren't ready to do that.

I'm definitely not out to use and/or abuse men. I choose to not live my life carrying bitterness and negativity, and if I felt like that's all this sub was about I wouldn't be here. I know that I am a supportive partner but what this sub has taught me is how to discern whether or not the effort I'm willing to put in will be reciprocated. It's helped me to realize that the way I was treated in the past had nothing to do with my own self worth. And honestly, it's nothing that I hadn't heard before from the people in my life who care about me. I just hadn't heard it in a way that made sense until recently.

I gave my heart to the wrong people, over and over. I didn't want to be a cold hearted bitchand stop being the kind and caring person that I was/ am. I thought those were my only options, and that everything I had to offer was never good enough because those people never seemed to appreciate it. I lowered my expectations and it got worse. FDS helped me to see past that, and love myself in a way I never had before.

nenindis · 2021-01-06T15:05:05+00:00

Because it's uncomfortable.

I'll admit that I wasn't sure I was going to vibe with the content here at first. Then, I took a closer look, and, in time, FDS has helped me name instances of abuse, grooming, manipulation, and other hurtful things I've suffered at the hands of men. It's been difficult to process all of it, but all the more worth it in the end because now I know I could never settle for less than I deserve.

But, then, the journey to becoming that independent HVW who does not need a man to be happy and fulfilled is a long and, at times, painful one. There is hurt, even loneliness ahead. There is unlearning so much conditioning and socializing imposed on us women by our circumstances. Change isn't it a hit it or miss it. It's a deep process that takes work and time.

Now, think about it. Think about how many people simply do NOT want to leave their comfort zone, even if well-aware what is in their comfort zone doesn't work for them. To my opinion, that's why some women are against FDS. Holding yourself accountable and to higher standards is a painful process.

The societal factors have already been explored, so, I won't thoroughly touch them again.

kyann-peppa · 2021-01-05T19:13:45+00:00

As a newbie I think it’s not always the content but some of the members. If we’re suppose to be here to support each other we could do without some of the rude and condescending replies when someone is asking for help/advice 🤷🏾‍♀️

TheOGJammies · 2021-01-05T19:34:01+00:00

[removed]

OrangeyPanda · 2021-01-06T16:46:12+00:00

Because libfems think its much more oppressive and violent to expect a man to pay for the date he asked you on, then to promote and cater to mens rape fantasies on OnlyFans.

Wildestrose1988 · 2021-01-05T23:48:24+00:00

Lots of reasons

Title	A question to FDS members: why do you think there are women who are against FDS?
Author	caramel_blondie
Upvotes	148
Comments	71
Date	January 5, 2021 7:01 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/kr540p/a_question_to_fds_members_why_do_you_think_there/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/a-question-to-fds-members-why-do-you-think-there.729878 https://theredarchive.com/post/729878

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