Looks plays a massive role in men’s value in women. How can I work on this when I'm average-looking? I am also not a very agreeable girl.

Lando_620 · 2021-05-03T15:13:28+00:00

Most guys (high value/RP types) will place agreeableness/submissiveness over looks as long as you're still healthy (bath, workout, eat well). This is because they typically are out battling & competing with other men in order to provide. When that is the case, you don't want to come home to headaches and confrontation.

The other thing too, is the things you mention get you the most heated are things you should really have in common. So you shouldn't need to argue or correct him as you guys should agree on those points. You should inherently find a leader you feel safe in following. So hold back your confrontation, be inquisitive and you will get your answers from him without turning him off. Because if you engage in those masculine behaviors he will write you off as a long term option.

I personally find ballroom, swing, or any of the partner social dances great. They help keep you active and naturally nurture both men in the role of leading & women in the role of following plus how that makes them a team.

FleetingWish · 2021-05-04T07:51:17+00:00

I will not agree for the sake of agreeing, if someone is wrong I will call them out on it, and I do not shy away from debates.

That is a very self congratulatory way of having the arrogance to think you are right about everything, and that you have nothing to learn from someone else.

Being feminine doesn't mean you have to agree with someone on everything, it's the understanding making allies (even those who don't always agree with you) starts from understanding core values and finding common ground.

When people believe something that is factually incorrect, correcting them won't make them agree with you, and the more belligerent you are about it, the more they will dig their heels in and mark you as an enemy.

Instead understand what their priorities are, what's important to them. Spend more time listening and asking questions than taking. Prioritize understanding the human behind the opinion over changing their minds. You will make more friends, maybe learn something, and make them more inclined to be sympathetic your point of view.

That is femininity.

KombuchaEnema · 2021-05-03T13:59:00+00:00

From what I’ve experienced with men (and especially red-pilled men), agreeableness is far more important than looks. I’ve found that men tend to be far less picky about women’s looks than we think they are. As long as you have good hygiene, take care of yourself (eating right, working out) and put some effort into learning what hairstyles and outfits look good on you, you should be fine. This means learning how to look good even in loungewear or pajamas, when you’re feeling lazy.

As for the agreeableness, I understand wanting to call people out for being wrong or wanting to debate. But at some point you have to ask yourself: “Is it worth it?”

For example, if your MIL is telling you that you need to feed your baby a specific brand of formula even though the baby’s doctor explicitly said not to use that brand, then that’s a good time to stand your ground and call her out. Why? Because if you submit to her, your baby is in danger. Not good.

On the other hand, if Grandpa is going on a rant during Thanksgiving dinner about how Joe Biden is the worst president we’ve ever had, then the feminine thing to do would be to change the subject rather than challenging him head on. Because what’s going to happen if you challenge him? He won’t change his mind and the family dinner will get even more awkward because you’re adding fuel to the fire.

Generally it’s a masculine trait to worry about being right all the time. Femininity (at least to me) is about picking and choosing your battles in order to maintain a peaceful and functional home.

I used to get into a lot of political arguments and realized I’m so much happier when I don’t engage. One, I’m not going to change anyone’s mind. Two, I’m only wasting time that I could be using for something productive. Three, I’m causing stress to myself and others by arguing with people.

So at some point you have to accept that feeding your ego isn’t worth the disruption in your peace.

lavenderhoneywoods · 2021-05-03T15:47:38+00:00

How old are you? I was more opinionated when I was younger and have generally chilled and become more understanding of others perspectives over time. Sometimes it’s just a maturity thing.

I think the question “what’s the point in arguing about this?” Is relevant. Is the position held by the other person presenting any real harm to you? To those you love? Are you likely to change their view? If you start with asking questions to understand the other persons perspective, that’s a conversation, if you open with telling them why they’re wrong, it’s an argument.

Apprehensive_Deer_80 · 2021-05-03T14:30:41+00:00

You are aware of the things that you need to work on, this is a great start.

I am also on a mission to improve my looks and have been losing weight by exercising everyday, watching what I eat and investing more effort into my appearance. Simple things like skin care, light make up, oiling and brushing my scalp and hair every night for 15 minutes (my hair is darker and shinier now) are some of the things I started doing. The only way to work on it is to start. Start small, try a hair style tutorial, master the basics of a foundation routine, practice application techniques in your spare time. Evaluate your closet, I purge and donate routinely, and have stopped wearing pants for the most part. Wearing dresses and skirts forced me to put more effort into styling so I dont look frumpy in a pretty dress.

When I was younger I was also very confrentational, but luckily I lost the energy for that when I got older. The trick is to understand you dont have to fight every battle that you come across and you dont have to debate on things that serve you no purpose. If you will possibly gain something after the debate then good, but otherwise you could use that time to do something else. Having an opinion is great, but the question is if you are giving your opinion as a response when asked or offering it unprovoked.

Saying less and listening more is a very good way to conserve energy and absorb more of what is being said to better determine if it is worth your time. Nowadays before I do anything, I ask myself "what will I gain from engaging in this" and if I determine it is not much of anything or not useful at all, I bow out.

Being self-absorbed and self-focused are not inherently bad. If it is to an extreme extent where you no longer care about how your actions affect others- then this is bad. These two traits are excellent when its time to do some major self improvment because you wont be distracted easily. At the same time you must remember no man is an island and be curteous and aware of others. This is all just my opinion and a bit of what I have experienced. I hope someone will provide your requested resources.

Time-Astronomer-145 · 2021-05-03T20:02:33+00:00

You definitely have the gift of self awareness and the desire to change! It takes a good amount of humility to look inward and reflect on the qualities you want to change about yourself. You also sound young. When I was a teenager, I was obnoxious, always had to have a say, had lots of strong opinions. As I got into my 20s, I realized I didn’t know everything and had been put into my place several times (through experiences at work, social situations, school, etc). Now that I’m married, with kids, in my later 20s, I focus more on other people, making it pleasant for them. I rarely discuss politics or my opinions unless it’s a situation where everyone wants to discuss it and is okay with disagreements. Rare. When I’m around men, I make a conscious effort to listen more. Sometimes, I don’t speak unless spoken to. It actually makes thing really peaceful and fun a lot of the times because everyone isn’t shouting over each other. You can still smile, nod, have a happy demeanor, and don’t take anything personally. Embrace your feminine side, being sweet, hospitable, friendly, quiet, polite. I have really worked on that over the last ten years because it wasn’t natural for me, per se. But now it is! It’s definitely helped my marriage too.

2021-05-04T13:09:49+00:00

One thing I have noticed, being a woman who has always struggled with my weight and social skills and doesn't have the best physical appearance is that when you are a teenager it's social suicide not to be hot. Boys your age are only interested in physical attractiveness, even if they are not good looking themselves and whether or not they are able to get with attractive girls. The only guys who hit on you are as old as your dad. Early 20s are similar. It can be hard to date still. This is why you get fat pimply teenage girls in relationships with middle aged men. I saw it a lot at my school. I found it creepy and never took part. Most of these older men were dysfunctional and had problems and the relationships were really toxic. The girl's lives were often downhill from there.

When you enter your mid to late 20s all the awkward men on your level in your age group will gain more confidence in asking you out and they will have lowered their standards. Many will be thinking about marriage and family at this point. Many will do some self development, realize that stacy or becky is never going to date them and realize that they probably don't have much in common with her anyway.

This is why a lot of awkward and ugly people don't have their first real relationship until their mid to late 20s or early 30s even. People hear the clocks ticking, they change their priorities and they run to find a partner.

I'm not attractive myself and I have a husband who pulls close to six figures. I'm a housewife and I stay home with my kids. Many women wouldn't find my husband attractive because he has Aspergers (so do I) and not the best hygiene (I often have to tell him to shower) or social skills. He interrupts when people talk, he's extremely blunt, he can be what other people might consider rude, but for some reason me and him get along. Marriage is about finding your equal.

I groom and take care of my hair and outfits, but my husband doesn't seem to care. When we were first together he expected me to have only a few practical clothes and to look a mess. I actually had to stand up for myself and tell him that fashion and beauty are passions of mine.

VERY IMPORTANTLY It always helps to build on your personality and to be empathetic, to have a sense of humor and not to be at odds with your husband. Personality does matter in women. Personality can win you prizes in the long run. Men want peaceful marriages and deep down so do women. When I find myself not agreeing with my husband I take a step back and think about how I can approach it without upsetting him. We do argue on occasion, most couples do, it's about how you resolve and stay committed through that conflict.

It seems that older men are also far less picky when it comes to what women look like. There will always be exceptions to this rule, but I have noticed that in general it's true that men become less superficial with age as they feel themselves wanting to have kids, they start balding and they start gaining weight.

--LowBattery-- · 2021-05-03T15:48:51+00:00

Being agreeable doesn't mean you have to agree about everything, it just means you can act like adults and agree to disagree and not turn everything into an argument.

treestumpbump · 2021-05-03T14:26:17+00:00

If you were just looking for sex, looks are almost everything.

If you're looking for marriage, looks play a much smaller role. You being disagreeable is a much bigger problem.

Ethman2k9 · 2021-05-03T15:49:27+00:00

Seriously. Long hair + don’t be fat + don’t do anything to intentionally screw it up and you’re ahead of 75% of the crowd. By intentionally screw it up I mean lesbian hair cuts, unnatural hair colors, tattoos (100% unattractive 100% of the time) piercings that don’t involve your ears. Some chicks can do bellybutton, tongue and nipples and it’s hot but I’d assume you get around a lot.

Beyond that wear form fitting clothes - no t shirts or flip flops , throw a little makeup on and call it a day. Next level would be lifting which can take you from cheerleader hot to runway model hot but most girls don’t wanna do it and it isn’t necessary for pedestrian purposes.

Like everyone else is saying tho. Work on being a pleasant person to be around. Nobody wants to date a bitch. Occeam’s Razor. The simplest explanation is usually the right one. This is likely your bigger problem than your looks. Throwing it back can be attractive at first but gets old. Dudes want a feminine woman. Calling people out (when deserved) is a good thing. Debating is a bad thing. Confidence is sexy. Arrogance is not. Try to be more caring and less self absorbed. Frankly until you fix those two things, you’re not ready for a relationship anyway. Maybe talk to a shrink about it. Relationships work when both people give a lot and expect little in return. If one of those people gives too little or expects too much, things aren’t gonna go well. You’d do well to learn that if you wanna keep a guy around. Looks can’t make up for a shit personality. You’ll get banged but you’re not gonna be able to keep a dude.

Kuneyah · 2021-05-04T01:19:11+00:00

Hit the gym

PNWHimbo · 2021-05-03T17:01:20+00:00

Anybody, or almost anybody, can give themselves the gift of a slender, fit body! Even if your face is only so-so, if you give yourself a good body that will go a very long way towards improving your appearance.

RP_Bear9 · 2021-05-03T18:19:16+00:00

To look for attractive instantly, give people a big warm inviting smile. Its may be the most important physical change you could make.

snaptogrid · 2021-05-03T23:06:02+00:00

Lots of good advice here. You don’t have to be a raving beauty in order to do well with men. We’re a lot more forgiving than the ladies sometimes think we are.

A few more tips. Meditate. (You’ll become more patient, and you’ll learn how to let things go.) Do yoga (it’s excellent for toning and for calmness, plus yoga chicks are very sexy). And work on charm. An amazing number of young American women look hot, are bright and dynamic, etc, but they have zero charm. Southern women and French women have charm in spades, and they do great with men. Type “French women” into Amazon and see what appeals to you. Here’s one book that I guarantee is good:

https://www.amazon.com/What-French-Women-Know-audiobook/dp/B002NVYEBK/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=french+women&qid=1620082986&sr=8-7

Source: I’m an old guy, but I’m in a 30 year long marriage and I had a lively romantic life before getting married.

ComplexMedical618 · 2021-05-04T06:26:32+00:00

Grooming!! Most ‘attractive’ women don’t look great first thing in the morning! Work on your grooming skills, make sure you smell great. Do it for you!

Jihocech_Honza · 2021-05-04T09:44:17+00:00

"bit opinionated"

Are your opinions based on logic, history, experience, or just od good feel or "justice"?

BePrivateGirl · 2021-05-03T17:37:40+00:00

Your post swings from looks in the title to attitude in the body.

But as far as looks go, take care of your skin, hair, and weight.

And then, wear dresses. Figure out which cut works for you, and then buy both casual and dressy dresses. Get comfortable wearing them, and you will look like you made an effort, and you will look feminine.

That’s the simple formula and you can expand on it from there.

Jenneapolis · 2021-05-03T17:30:56+00:00

Some really good advice I heard somewhere is the absence of a yes is a no. So if someone, for example a guy, asks you to do something that you don’t really want to do, instead of saying no which can come off very harsh, just don’t say yes and deflect. Don’t lie but talk around it. Vague statements like I never thought about it that way or that’s interesting work. Unless it is very important, you will both usually move on and it saves their ego. I use this a lot both at work and with relationships!

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