Where have all the good men gone?

Dnile1000BC · 2015-07-22T10:03:01+00:00

Why do they care? Women need men like a fish needs a bicycle right? Well the bicycle has decided to go riding by itself. Why is the fish crying?

TheDude41 · 2015-07-22T13:10:05+00:00

As opposed to women, who today act like entitled little princesses until they turn 40.

I guess men lost interest in you shrieking little crybabies. Who wouldn't?

Lobstermansunion · 2015-07-22T13:21:55+00:00

For a couple years there was a huge spate of articles like this but they kind of dried up after men handed their asses back to them in the comments section and on social media.

The feminist media would rather stop talking about an issue than tell the truth.

The British press seems to be covering it more now, with MGTOW & the Marriage Strike being covered on British TV and magazines.

Tmomp · 2015-07-22T12:28:29+00:00

That article is a lot of whining for someone calling someone else immature.

AGoodWordForOldGil · 2015-07-22T16:25:21+00:00

I think what disturbs me about this article is the implied attitude that men are somehow a community resource - the value of our existence as men is directly proportional to our willingness to protect and support the female class. Furthermore, why do women have any say in what defines a man?

It should come as no surprise that decades of educational support for women has created a stilted generation of men. Why should men contribute to and support this society anyway? What exactly is the benefit? We've diverted educational resources toward girls' educational advancement; diminished the material value of marriage; penalized fatherhood; placed untenable and often contradictory expectations on men; eroded the value of our wages; and socially demeaned our contributions to society.

Society got what it wanted and is now complaining about the unintended consequences. Typical.

AGoodWordForOldGil · 2015-07-22T13:44:34+00:00

I snicker at how women seem to believe that they are leaving us men behind.

It's quite the opposite. We're leaving THEM behind. We are men. We are good in STEM, we just lost interest in relationships where the woman brings NOTHING to the table.

So we walk our way alone. No problemo.

BorisIvanovich · 2015-07-22T14:53:15+00:00

Yeah, I'm going to rely on a bitter single woman to tell me what it means to be a 'good man'

No thanks, I'd rather not be some cuckold ATM

historyismybitch · 2015-07-22T13:36:20+00:00

It's been an almost universal rule of civilization that girls became women simply by reaching physical maturity, but boys had to pass a test. They needed to demonstrate courage, physical prowess or mastery of the necessary skills. The goal was to prove their competence as protectors and providers. Today, however, with women moving ahead in our advanced economy, husbands and fathers are now optional, and the qualities of character men once needed to play their roles—fortitude, stoicism, courage, fidelity—are obsolete, even a little embarrassing.

Today's pre-adult male is like an actor in a drama in which he only knows what he shouldn't say. He has to compete in a fierce job market, but he can't act too bossy or self-confident. He should be sensitive but not paternalistic, smart but not cocky. To deepen his predicament, because he is single, his advisers and confidants are generally undomesticated guys just like him.

Good description.

James Taranto, addressing a different Hymowitz article, argues that extended adolescence might be a rational economic decision for young men (Actually, Hymowitz seems to be saying something similar in the current article)...

Are boys irrational? Not if you distinguish biology from economics

Hymowitz laments that young males are insufficiently interested in "becoming reliable husbands and fathers." Imagine somebody opening a piece with the converse lament that young females are insufficiently interested in "becoming reliable wives and mothers." The author would be attacked as a misogynist and a dinosaur. Why, critics would demand, should women set their sights so low?

Well, why should men? Except perhaps in very conservative communities, men with sufficient social skills can find sex and companionship without need of a matrimonial commitment (and for those who lack social skills, a willingness to marry is unlikely to provide much compensation). The culture's unrelenting message--repeated in Hymowitz's article--is that women are doing fine on their own. If a woman doesn't need a man, there's little reason for him to devote his life to her service. Further, in the age of no-fault divorce, "reliable husbands and fathers" not infrequently find themselves impoverished by child support and restricted by court order from spending time with their children.

As for education, the story of Joshua Strange ought to be enough to give any sensible young man second thoughts about enrolling in college. And work? Not all jobs, including those that require a college degree, are as rewarding as writing for an intellectual magazine (or, we hasten to add, a newspaper). Men traditionally sought to "better themselves" not because working in an office or on an assembly line was itself a source of delight, but because being a workingman enabled them to earn respect and made possible the joys of domestic life.

Today, the idea of commanding respect for an honest day's work seems quaint, and if you don't believe us, try "resigning" yourself to "a life of shelf stocking" and see where that gets you. In a world of female independence and limitless options, traditional family life is both less attractive and more elusive--for men and women alike--than it used to be.

Boys and young men are no less rational, or capable of adapting to incentives, than girls and young women are. They are, in fact, adapting very well to the incentives for female power and independence--which inevitably also serve as disincentives to male reliability and self-sacrifice.

Matthew Cochran brings up the parable about one man who works hard so one day he can retire and go fishing, and another man who's skipped the hard work and gone straight to the fishing.

Are Men Irrational For Opting Out Of Education, Careers, And Families? What makes good sense on a personal level can make less sense on a societal level.

So why did this make me think of the fisherman’s tale? The point of the parable is presumably to question the wisdom of the kind of masculine ambition that leads a man to build, advance, and produce more than what he needs for himself, but the far more interesting question is this: where does this ambition come from and what is its purpose? Consider: if you think about the characters in the parable, it is not hard to guess which of the two men is more likely to be married. The businessman would certainly be a better catch in the eyes of most women, and the fisherman isn’t scaling back his hours to spend more time with a wife and kids. His highest aspiration is to simply relax and enjoy life whenever he is able. We are just speculating here, and it is certainly possible that the fictional businessman is just in it for greed, but even then, it is interesting that family is the single most likely factor to determine whether or not his ambition is truly greedy.

Mr. Taranto’s analysis of the matter is essentially that these underemployed young men are making the fisherman’s choice. Sure, sitting on the beach is replaced with casual sex and video games, but the principle is the same: for a man without ambition, the fisherman’s choice is not really irrational.

But there is a point at which the fisherman’s choice does become irrational, and it is probably this realization that has been alarming many people like Ms. Hymowitz. What makes good sense on a personal level can make less sense on a societal level. Civilization depends on the tendency of men to produce more than they consume for themselves—it depends on that masculine ambition. In the parable, the fisherman feeds himself. Following the businessman’s ambition, however, could mean feeding himself & his workers, along with any family they might have. His ambition could be a huge boon to society. Take that away, and you have a bunch of men doing what they need to do to stay comfortable, but nothing more—nothing for any women or any increasingly hypothetical children.

This leads some folks to call the disinterested men lazy and shame them on an individual level into manning up to provide for society. However, if the irrationality is at a societal level, perhaps the critique should also be leveled at society. Permanent and chaste marriages along with the legitimate children they produce are a social feature that traditionally cultivated masculine ambition by rewarding it and channeling it towards benevolent ends. Men tend to love their wives and children, take satisfaction in working on their behalf, and used to gain commensurate social respect for doing so.

And yet, this kind of marriage is precisely what has been taken away from men in our society. Instead, our elites have sought to structure the family around child support instead of marriage. The mother has custody of the children, but she receives much of the necessary resources from elsewhere. This could be from her husband, but it could just as easily be from her ex-husband, her boyfriend, or the taxpayer. Where it comes from doesn’t matter so long as the child has resources and the woman is freed from any moral or social obligation towards these men.

chocoboat · 2015-07-22T17:01:43+00:00

[permanently deleted]

SlashSero · 2015-07-22T16:49:37+00:00

The exponentially growing rate of single motherhood ( and all it's problems ) and divorce initiated by women is a prime marker for this phenomena and is exactly why men are no longer willing to settle down with this type of woman. I would marry if I could find a wife that I could fully trust and that would bring her own merits to the table, but I'm not putting my life on the line for women that partied their entire early 20s to early 30s and then want to settle down after graduating the status of party girl. Men are no longer letting themselves be treated as walking ATMs. When they say: "Where have all the good men gone?" I say "Why would a good man want you?".

jak_22 · 2015-07-22T14:08:44+00:00

Don't worry, sweety. We are fine. :)

pnw_diver · 2015-07-22T19:58:41+00:00

Imagine if the Wall Street Journal had published an article called "Where have all the good women gone" written by a man and lambasting young women for not meeting up to mens' expectations.

Just imagine.

bertreapot · 2015-07-22T13:23:08+00:00

Classic example of an opinion piece where a woman is free to chastise men without criticism. If a man wrote a similar article about what women are doing wrong, just wait for the cries of sexism.

The author also ignores the #1 cause of these "pre-adult" males: women entering the workforce, and stretching their own post-adolescent fantasy life well into their 30s. it used to be that men were the primary breadwinners, there was no contraception, and settling down to support a family was the right thing to do. Today, most women make good money in the work force, and why settle right out of high school when you're making good money? They can move to the city, drink, party, have unfulfilling short-term relationships with men they are too good for, then commiserate with their peers that there just aren't good men around these days.

men aren't the only ones with some growing up to do.

Lethn · 2015-07-22T14:51:18+00:00

It's really simple, good men got tired of your shit and have found someone better or they're out searching elsewhere.

WordsNotToLiveBy · 2015-07-22T16:48:29+00:00

What Ms. Klausner means by "guys" is males who are not boys or men but something in between.

I like how she's the arbitrator defining what a man is.

mshorts · 2015-07-22T15:11:56+00:00

Great, another article about men written by a woman.

And of course she misses the point: society no longer provides incentives for "good man" behavior. There is little respect or honor for a "good man".

jb_trp · 2015-07-22T14:00:43+00:00

It's great to see the war on boys is going so well. /s

mindless_gibberish · 2015-07-22T15:28:44+00:00

Why would anybody want to marry this miserable woman?

parkowork · 2015-07-22T17:06:54+00:00

For today's pre-adults, "what you do" is almost synonymous with "who you are," and starting a family is seldom part of the picture.

Yeah... no... I'm assuming "starting a family" means "having children". I'm an adult, and i'm making the adult decision to not have children, and instead maintain my freedom, money, and... fun.

That has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not i'm a "responsible adult", and this author's opinion betrays that fact. It shows she wants someone to have a kid with, and having a hard time finding a man who wants to have a child with her.

"a man willing to have a child with her" != "good man". She should re-title her article.

nysv · 2015-07-22T11:02:48+00:00

2011

yummyluckycharms · 2015-07-22T17:46:58+00:00

This is fantastic news - we should be celebrating that men are finally acting in rational, resulted oriented ways that benefit them and society - and not women anymore.

Furthermore, the author is neglecting to mention that when people live by themselves, there's double the demand for housing, cars, restaurant budgets, etc vs if all of these people shacked up and lived in one house. In fact, the author doesnt really describe a single bad thing about this demographic shift - not a single one

The sexual revolution first benefited women, and now the secondary impact has arrived now that men have adjusted to the revolution. Society can only be enriched and be improved by it.

lost_garden_gnome · 2015-07-22T20:25:30+00:00

I'm sorry, o writer of the article that my dad died when I was 18, that I was emotionally stunted, intellectually a little slow, and a horrible student. I'm sorry that I spent the first half of my 20's in the bottom of a bottle figuring out who the fuck I really am. And the second half going and turning into someone worth being with long term. Wait. I'm not sorry for any of it. Fuck you. If I had a dollar for every girl I came across who acts like she's hot shit because she has ovaries, but isn't going to school, doesn't work out/make Any attempt at health, and is ultimately waiting to get married off so she doesn't have to work the rest of her life....I'd have a good chunk of tuition knocked out. Piss off WSJ.

bsutansalt · 2015-07-22T20:43:51+00:00

"Where have all the good men gone?"

In your 20s where you left them.

Women in their 20s and 30s today are pickier than ever and yet they have far less to offer men than in generations past. Women today think they're doing good by bringing to the table what men already have in spade and the author still hasn't figured out why many are going their own way? Really? This isn't rocket science.

azazelcrowley · 2015-07-22T11:22:32+00:00

Oh god. The site is an anagram of SJW. Do I dare risk it? No. I shall have coffee instead.

slapyomomma13 · 2015-07-22T13:45:05+00:00

They want us to want to want to wash the dishes, simply washing them isnt enough.

AnonGoesOnline · 2015-07-22T13:06:56+00:00

This is a clear sign of society collapse, just look what happened the years before the fall of Rome, low birth rates, low marriage rates, high divorce rates and more importantly, men were more then ever living a lavish life style and not caring about responsibilities.

Wargame4life · 2015-07-22T15:57:27+00:00

All the good men are with good women.

mra4ever · 2015-07-22T23:17:52+00:00

Women really can't stand it when they find out that you don't need them for anything. It makes their head spin, which is why they're quick to belittle our hobbies and lifestyles.

You're only good when you're doing what women want. Otherwise you're a piece of shit - articles like these are concrete proof of how the average women has contempt for men.

2015-07-22T23:53:37+00:00

These 'good men', especially those in their 20s, haven't gone anywhere.

They're just not bowing to your expectations and are putting themselves first instead of women, who according to this article are picky as fuck today.

They've obviously figured out that their hobbies and interests matter more to them than having a relationship with an entitled woman.

Also, so what if a man is still living with his parents in his 20s? It's more common for people in that age group to still live with their parents now more than ever thanks to a fucked global economy and terrible chances of stable employment.

Stop trying to make sense of the modern world, with 1950s ideals. Things change, men change.

So there's going to less men that cater to your desires? Get used to it lady.

_-_Dan_-_ · 2015-07-22T15:27:15+00:00

BTW, I guess one answer would be: They did not find a good woman when they were looking for one and decided to move on to other things.

I think something some parts of society need to learn is that if you ignore or even blame men, a noticeable amount of them will opt out. As no matter what choices society presents to you, you always have the power to say "no".

CivilEntgineer · 2015-07-22T17:54:06+00:00

The irony in that article is awe inspiring.

She has literally pin pointed the exact reason we are at this point in our society yet somehow she is completely blind to it.

Pretty good example of what we, as men, have to deal with on a day to day basis.

ZimbaZumba · 2015-07-22T18:48:32+00:00

Faux-Sensitive Hipsters

Lol, marvelous phrase. As is..

....having enough disposable income to avoid ever messing up their kitchens.

Bukkake_Monster · 2015-07-22T20:02:20+00:00

And where are all the gods?

FrigOffCyrus · 2015-07-22T21:20:57+00:00

Like Fight Club said: "We're a generation of men raised by women." Feminists have successfully demonized masculinity, and then are surprised that they're dealing with hordes of metaphorically emasculated men. I mean just look at Mad Men- that show is the epitome of shaming traditional masculinity. These women have the nerve to throw around terms like "toxic masculinity" and criticize every part of what it means to be a man, yet expect men to make more than them and provide for them. It's fucking sickening.

2015-07-22T22:33:59+00:00

Aww, are the wymyn regretting shaming men out of chivalry and now wanting to shame them back into it?

The rest of this comment will deal with how much of a fuck I give and why:

Intaanettoman · 2015-07-23T00:35:00+00:00

How about we stop pushing men to conform to outdated gender stereotypes and let us just live.

rocelot7 · 2015-07-23T03:21:42+00:00

Where have all the good men gone?

Away from you.

Demius93 · 2015-07-22T17:31:26+00:00

I find this article to be hilarious rather than to be offensive or disgusting. I would just like to see these feminist authors go live in japan for 10 years and then complain about Men in the US. The article basically is trying to call us out on being hikikmori yet the problem here has not evolved to that level at all.

AllAboutDatGDA · 2015-07-23T05:31:04+00:00

I would like to see the reaction if a man wrote an article entitled "Where have all the good women gone?" Now that would be something worth reading.

I enjoyed the part where women's interests are mature, while men's interests are not. Wtf is wrong with playing some video games in your free time? Better than watching the view or some nonsense.

under_score16 · 2015-07-22T14:28:33+00:00

What also makes pre-adulthood something new is its radical reversal of the sexual hierarchy. Among pre-adults, women are the first sex. They graduate from college in greater numbers (among Americans ages 25 to 34, 34% of women now have a bachelor's degree but just 27% of men), and they have higher GPAs. As most professors tell it, they also have more confidence and drive. These strengths carry women through their 20s, when they are more likely than men to be in grad school and making strides in the workplace. In a number of cities, they are even out-earning their brothers and boyfriends.

Good on them for recognizing this at least.

brettdavis4 · 2015-07-22T18:53:04+00:00

I get annoyed when women write stupid shit like this.

The problem with some women(I think the author is in this group) is they are holding out hope of the perfect guy. If she sees a guy she might be interested in and then starts going through the checklist and he doesn't score 100%, she'll dump him.

In reality what has happened, a lady met a guy that played video games casually and would hang out with his friends. Unfortunately, this guy didn't meet the Princess's standards and she is now alone. Now that she is alone she bitches about not finding any good men.

Optional_Reading · 2015-07-22T16:09:39+00:00

I am a bachelor in my mid thirties. I have never been married and do not see any upside in getting married for the modern day man, unless you have a burning desire to settle down and start a family (which is totally cool too). I make decent money and enjoy being with different people. Any 'decent' guy is either married already, found a bride in another country, or is boning hookers like he should.

AtomicBLB · 2015-07-22T18:26:07+00:00

We are doing our own thing, and it's made for a much happier overall life. I don't want to impress people I don't care for with things I do not want or more importantly things I don't need.

The_0bserver · 2015-07-22T23:51:05+00:00

The comment section is gold. A possible female there named Kathleen was debating a good debate on why this article is bad for both men and women, and I do agree with her.

The article author just made one so that wsj can get ad revenue from pissed off people reading and commenting.

Tedesche · 2015-07-23T05:03:40+00:00

The comments section of this article is (thankfully) skewering the author, by and large. Such a pig-headed article.

PowerWisdomCourage · 2015-07-23T12:05:10+00:00

Oh, the female ego. I think she's explained why she can't find a guy by simply writing this dreck.

MRA-automatron-2kb · 2015-07-23T19:30:20+00:00

Where have all the good men gone? to the Spa ...

Save your money by not dating; then use it to spend an afternoon at the Spa being pampered by a kind woman.

manvsnig · 2015-07-22T14:43:22+00:00

Hymowitz

Title	Where have all the good men gone?
Author	nitoko
Upvotes	81
Comments	103
Date	July 22, 2015 9:44 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3e6im8/where_have_all_the_good_men_gone/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/where-have-all-the-good-men-gone.974882 https://theredarchive.com/post/974882

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