Why get an attorney?

MisterEdGein8 · 2021-09-19T20:05:05+00:00

I got an attorney so I could find out what my worse case scenario was regarding spousal support and asset split. Then I used that info to negotiate a better deal with my ex wife. I probably saved myself $200k by sucking up to my ex wife and giving her what she wanted, which was way less than the worse case scenario. I painted myself as a loser and told her she'd find someone way better than me. 10 years later she still texts me occasionally about how broke she is and how she's struggling. I gave her a paid off house and car at the age of 35. Life should have been easy, but she's a moron.

alcosexual · 2021-09-19T21:00:04+00:00

We have kids (11, 15, 17), a sizable house, and about 1M in retirement/savings. She spent most of our 20 years together as a stay-at-home mom to take care of the kids

Dude, there are men who can maybe swing things with no lawyer because they don’t have tons of assets and minor kids, and then there’s you.

You are the poster child for “get a fucking lawyer.”

If you look up the Wikipedia entry for People who should get a lawyer there’s a picture of you.

See what I’m saying? If ever there was ever a person who shouldn’t gamble on the goodwill of their soon-to-be-ex, it’s you.

Get a lawyer.

hemidak · 2021-09-19T19:41:07+00:00

Have you never seen her change her mind/ mood for no reason at all ? That's why you need to have a lawyer... For when she changes her mind. And she will.

ShutUpHeExplained · 2021-09-19T19:35:33+00:00

At least consider mediation or having a lawyer review everything before signing. Make sure agreements are notarized. Things are amicable now but you never know when that might change

JohnnyMnemo · 2021-09-19T19:42:42+00:00

You can still talk to a lawyer to determine if you're getting screwed without bringing them into the negotiation directly.

If she gets any notion of needing to feather her retirement nest, esp now that she will need to support herself, she's going to hammer you on child support, asset division, and potentially lifetime support.

akihonj · 2021-09-19T20:36:13+00:00

A lawyer is there to protect your interests, they are there to give you the best advice within the law.

Think of it this way, you are going through a divorce, you will soon experience the full weight of the government and its use of family law going through you with a dick big enough to make and elephant cry and they are going in without any lube.

You will get fucked several ways from Sunday and all the while she will play the smiling grieving dutiful ex wife who still loves you more than you know and more than anybody should and at any single point through the entire fuck fest that is a divorce she can and most likely will switch into the fact that at some point she may well have to be fully financially responsible for herself.

99% of women realise that and suddenly you become an abusive person worse than Ted Bundy and Jack the ripper rolled into one.

You might be lucky and have married that 1% of women who just wants a fair and equitable divorce and to move on with her own life, and you probably thought you've found that one woman more special than any other woman on the face of this earth and at the same time she will never do that to you.

Yeah she'll never do that to you until she does.

Get a lawyer, use them for going over legal documents, have them on hand for advice, have them ready to go to war if needs be, think to yourself it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

Throwaway4120213 · 2021-09-19T20:15:18+00:00

Do you both agree on custody split and schedule? Do you agree on what happens to the house - is someone stay, is someone leaving, how long will the person leaving give the other person for a buyout? Do you agree on what happens with the retirement? Do you want to swap retirement funds for house? Do you agree on how much alimony will be? Do you agree on how long alimony will be? Do you agree on how extra child expenses will get split? Do you agree on what child support will be? Do you agree on what her income imputation should be?

If you disagree on any of those points - get an attorney!

eked-1213 · 2021-09-19T21:05:53+00:00

Things may be civil now. But your wife may think that she deserves most if not all of that $1 million savings. Maybe she thinks 70% of your net pay is fair alimony. Maybe not. Maybe she’s a reasonable person. But if I were a betting man, I would bet no man on this sub who’s been through a divorce would say their ex was reasonable when deciding how much money/stuff they had to give to their ex. My ex sure wasn’t reasonable. She took me to court seven times. Every time the judge would rule and that was that. Then like a month or so would pass and my attorney would call to say her attorney contacted him and we have to go back to court. Every time, she was simply trying to get more from me. She finally signed the papers and our divorce was done. Then all she had left to do was come to my house and get the stuff she was given. The house belonged to a relative of mine so it was never up for grabs as neither of us owned it. So anyway, she came for her stuff and I wasn’t there. My relative came over and let her and her family members who came to help her in the house. The relative didn’t know what was what so my ex proceeded to clean the house out. She took everything-even things that the judge ruled were mine. Bitch even took my curtains. At that point I was so happy it was over I really didn’t care. We were still pretty young and I was fresh out of the military so we didn’t have much.

A friend of mine got a divorce and he was ordered to pay alimony and child support, plus his wife got to keep their house and everything in it. He literally got to keep his clothes and his car. She got everything else. A few months after the divorce, he picked up a part time job working nights and weekends. About a year later, his ex discovered he had a second job. So she took him back to court. She told the judge that since her ex husband was making more money, he needed to be paying more in alimony and child support. The judge agreed. Not only did the judge make him start paying more per month, he also had to back pay his ex for all the time he had been working that second job. After he paid his ex every month, he realized he couldn’t afford a place of his own anymore. So he had to live in his car. But he still had to go to work everyday and every night while the majority of his pay went to his ex. Eventually his car was repossessed because he couldn’t make the payments. His ex couldn’t have cared less. Between all of his friends we supported him the best we could. One friend let him move in. We would take him to work and pick him up. Eventually he saved enough cash that he was able to buy a beater car. Then he saved enough that he was finally able to rent a very cheap apartment. But this guy went through hell.

Hire an attorney. You will never regret having an attorney but I’ll bet the farm you’ll regret it if you don’t get one…unless of course you really, truly believe that you don’t deserve anything-including your kids.

dday_throwaway3 · 2021-09-19T21:07:47+00:00

> my wife and I are civil enough to work through this

Everybody thinks that at the start. The only time women are reasonable during divorce are when they are getting everything they want.

> I see a ton of folks staying you HAVE TO get an attorney

I'm not an attorney but I've worked with hundreds of men going through divorce. The ones who have the worst outcomes are those that went the El Cheapo DIY Divorce. Between non-durable stipulations, lopsided agreements and continued financial entanglements these men find themselves in a never-ending nightmare of court actions. Divorce is a minefield and you don't want to end up like Lt Dan from Forest Gump. An attorney is the guide you need to navigate through divorce.

I recommend reading the tactics and strategy resources at forum.mensdivorce.com. It's been around for 20 years, and the members there are dads like you and me. I'd point you to resources from this sub, but, well, there's been nothing since this sub was created.

Start with these links:

https://forum.mensdivorce.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=81622

https://forum.mensdivorce.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=80375

Good luck.

SpiritualEnema · 2021-09-19T19:26:08+00:00

You’re about to get fucked if it’s anything less than 100% amicable. Don’t think her friends aren’t telling her to take you for everything you’re worth. Read through the posts here. You’re looking at lifetime alimony potentially, depending on which state you live in. Plan on giving her 60% of your net income for the foreseeable future. Would you be ok with that?

pegleg_legal · 2021-09-20T01:54:58+00:00

I also want to believe that my wife and I are civil enough to work through this.

Then you should both want to have attorneys, eventually. The first thing I would do if I were you two, would be to print out a marital settlement agreement and joint parenting agreement from the internet and go through them together with all the issues. Then you can see where you agree and disagree. Get as close as you can.

Then when you hire lawyers - you need to know that your lawyers are likely to tell you that you can do better than what you've agreed but not fall into that trap unless there is something glaringly inequitable or not enforceable.

Finally: Have you considered collaborative law? It's about as non-contentious as a divorce can be. You both hire lawyers and take an amicable and transparent route with disclosures and if it gets too contentious then you need to find new lawyers.

jgoodstein · 2021-09-20T04:09:15+00:00

I started with a lawyer and ended up representing myself for a myriad of reasons. In the end I did well, but wish I could have afforded a lawyer till the end. She was gonna be “civil too” and decided not to be and then proceeded to burn through 6-figures of savings. My kids are older like yours and we didn’t own much. Should have been simple, but took 4 years and went to trial.

sicrm · 2021-09-19T19:27:31+00:00

you don’t always have to put a lawyer on retainer but booking a consult with one can save you 1000s if not significantly more.

a consult will help you know if your agreement on is at least in the ballpark of fair.

you can also have a lawyer look your agreement before it’s signed to make sure there’s nothing that can come back to bite you down the road.

No_more_BPD_2020 · 2021-09-19T20:46:57+00:00

Lawyer was able to communicate with my wife and motivate her to cooperate in ways I couldn't. My interests were looked out for better than I could. I would have given away the farm.

I heard on here most divorces start out amicably, and few finish that way. My hunch is that's correct.

I didn't think I needed an attorney either. Maybe I could have done it with just a filing service, I was just so devastated by the whole thing.

dkf67 · 2021-09-19T21:38:27+00:00

Considering your apparent financial stability and sizable assets literally nothing bad can come from having legal advice and representation for either of you. It will protect both parties from a "he said she said" scenario. Things might be civil now but it could change in a matter of seconds if things change for one party financially.

A_StableGenius · 2021-09-19T22:51:56+00:00

Get one. They will say that and then pull a fast one on you.

j_k_802 · 2021-09-19T23:21:40+00:00

As a 55 yo with 2 divorces under my belt and about 250K in total for child support. Depending on your state you can actually go to their major state website that should have the child support schedule. Now see here. You make ALL the money thus you pay all the value of support. Each kid has a value based on your income and their age. 12-18 you pay more. I’m only talking from my shithole of a state Washington. total feminist’s ruled the courts and support since the early 80’s. The way they look at it is gross income, less taxes and deductions you already take. You don’t get to say 50 percent to 401k unless you already do that. They don’t care. It’s a formula. If you make 100K expect about 2K to 2500 a month to child support for 3 kids and thats after taxes. Tax break you should get as you’ll need it being single now making bank. NO ONE CARES about YOU but YOU….don’t ever forget that. Pay for a good lawyer. It might cost 5K for a full deal but that person will save your ass….trust me. 2nd…never marry again.

Ok-Veterinarian-5984 · 2021-09-20T00:18:01+00:00

You are delusional, arrogant, or ignorant. Regardless, a lawyer will help.

Stoic_Sun_Tzu · 2021-09-20T01:55:44+00:00

I’ve gone through a horrific 10 year process and am still fighting for my financial life. The lawyers help but also have a financial incentive to keep you fighting. So be careful! I’ve had it worse than most but it ALL depends on your partner and their willingness to work out a deal.

You need to educate yourself. There are basics to learn online. For you they are: division of marital property, spousal support, and child support. Understanding how each of these work and what drives the numbers is critical. You don’t need a lawyer for this. There is a ton of free material online.

Where the lawyer is critical is filing the paperwork with the court house. But keep in mind they depend on your input at the end of the day so the more you can do to efficiently communicate with them the less money you will spend.

support-profe321 · 2021-09-20T14:23:04+00:00

Just get a lawyer, I was like you. I thought I knew my wife. I did not have a lawyer in the beginning, she had one. I realized that it would have been better to get a lawyer from minute one, when I found myself in jail for a few nights because of her. To sum it up, it was a expensive mistake and it did cost me my whole retirement savings, so please stop calculating what if and when and just get a lawyer today and not tomorrow.

CommanderOfCheese45 · 2021-09-21T15:57:41+00:00

In my case, it's because I was a big stupid teddy bear who was ready to give up waaaaay too much, and my lawyer helped me realize I was voluntarily screwing myself. The reduction in the amount I was going to pay in support alone was much more than the lawyer's fees, and the reduction in how much I was going to pay out in equity in my rental home is waaaaay more than that.

Actually my stbx has been shooting herself in the foot lately and it looks like I've got a shot at full custody, and if she's pissed enough and whines enough about me not giving her "enough" she might just pack up and leave the state entirely, making her effectively "gone" from my life and possibly even leaving me with both houses (though I'd still have to pay out equity). Wouldn't have happened without me having a lawyer.

nosrednAhsoJ · 2021-09-19T20:07:57+00:00

Ok, so there are some strong points here. I like the idea of finding out what worst case scenario is. When I'm the process should I talk to someone. Before anything is filed or once things are in motion.

I assume the answer is gonna as soon as f'n possible...

25_years · 2021-09-20T14:39:47+00:00

We have ... about 1M in ... savings ...
... I'm a rookie ...

Let me look into my crystal ball and see how it goes when you first talk to a lawyer.

You: I'm interested in a divorce.
Lawyer: How much money do you have?
You: About a million dollars.
Lawyer: Are you a rookie?
You: Why, yes I am.
Lawyer: grins and slowly starts to rub his hands together, thoughts of a new Mercedes Benz C300 with the AMG Sports package enters his brain

cloudburr · 2021-09-19T19:41:37+00:00

You dont need an attorney as long as you are happy with her taking more than you, keeping the house and raiding your pension. Then sure, go without an attorney.

While we're at it, I want to have a word with you about a bridge thats for sale.

Calm_Tomato · 2021-09-19T20:12:36+00:00

So many people talking about getting screwed. My STBXW did it ourselves. No lawyers. It wasn’t easy but we did it. In the end we came up with a deal that worked for both of us. If both of you are willing to negotiate, I say go for it. It can be done.

aventadorlp · 2021-09-19T22:08:18+00:00

Youll have a few options...depending in your state youll be looking at 40% of your net pay gone to cs and alimony. As for the house, tou could keep it and buy her half or vice versa, if she wants it let her have it and move out. Basically take half the equity and subtract that from your retirement account. I dont really see a need for a lawyer other than to help draft the decree and file some paperwork unless shes noncivil about it and demands more. You dont need a lawyer on retainer to go to court with you but you should at the very least get one to help with filing a d drafting formal paperwork and decree.

BrkHeart5252 · 2021-09-20T00:16:43+00:00

The law is usually against men especially working men. Get a lawyer like everyone have said.

thedarkaquarian007 · 2021-09-20T00:40:33+00:00

Even you are willing to split everything 50/50, still seek legal counsel. Mediation attorneys are far less expensive.

Chip512 · 2021-09-20T12:52:07+00:00

People who represent themselves have a fool for a client. Law may look like English but it is not - our legal system has so many meanings for common words and other nuances to seemingly straightforward statements that attorneys who do this full time still have problems. At the very least talk with an attorney, many will to the first talk without charge, to see what settlement might look like.

Title	Why get an attorney?
Author	nosrednAhsoJ
Upvotes	5
Comments	47
Date	September 19, 2021 7:21 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/Divorce_Men
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/Divorce_Men/comments/prej1g/why_get_an_attorney/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/Divorce_Men/why-get-an-attorney.1075525 https://theredarchive.com/post/1075525

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