Does the alpha/beta male classification actually have any validity to it or is it just BS?

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HappyRainbowSparkle · 2022-07-12T15:43:19+00:00

I've not really seen anyone outside of RP/manosphere using it in a serious way and if they do they're normally mocked or assumed to be a dick

juliuspepperwoodchi · 2022-07-12T16:11:58+00:00

Considering it was entirely based on a horribly flawed study about wolves in captivity which was then debunked by the original study's own researcher/author I'd say no, it is utter bullshit.

honey-bundy-88 · 2022-07-12T19:47:25+00:00

This dichotomy is the first way you spot someone who is brainwashed. It makes my blood run cold when I hear it cause I know the person consumes a lot of unfortunate incel/trp literature to actually use the words out loud, like it's notmal.

Literally nobody outside of these cults looks at men in such a demeaning black and white way. Women do not use these terms to discuss guys. It's only brainwashed guys.

It's for selling books, supplements, and phone calls to men with low self esteem. It's some shit from the 1950s.

Edit: Wanted to add that this alpha/beta split phenomenon is an example of what Cognitive Behavioural Therapy calls 'splitting'. It's dangerous for your mind.

_DoIt4Johnny_ · 2022-07-12T18:19:46+00:00

Astrology for red-pillers

isbostontheworstcity · 2022-07-12T16:59:14+00:00

I imagine it's true in certain micro subcultures such as... - prison - biker gangs - low level / thuggish criminal outfits

Outside of that, most people have confidence it their demonstrated abilities and reflect that in their actions. If they've been engineering for 15 years professionally and know good practices they can probably lead a group of less experienced guys effectively. It's not really being "alpha" though it's having a skill you've learned and practiced. Maybe some people BS for a while without that, but then the BS-ing is another skill.

Also in the manosphere you also hear a lot about alpha guys getting matches on Tinder, as though women can deduce anything from your Tinder profile but how pretty you look. Or maybe you diligent your workout regimine, but that's not really anything but dedication/genetics.

I think there's some different stuff in prison culture but that's probably not what you're optimizing for anyway.

5MinuteMentalFitness · 2022-07-12T19:52:46+00:00

Beta male=a poor way to theorize insecure attachment.

Alpha male=a poor way to theorize avoidant attachment.

Disorganized attachment is a combination of those two.

The above 3 attachment styles are found in roughly over 1/2 people.

The rest of people are securely attached which means people who are secure in themselves regardless of how others view them while also viewing others as capable of being able to receive and reciprocate love and attachment.

Insecure people are not secure in themselves unless others view them as secure. Thus they seek validation (wether they deserve to feel and be loved) by how others treat them not how they treat themselves.

Avoidant attached people for the most part believe everyone is out to get them thus they have to either get them first or put themselves above everyone else. Thus they only seek validation in themselves and not only not seek validation in others but discredit others completely.

Secure attached people are secure in themselves but also secure in those around them. They do not seek validation in others to feel loved but do welcome it and also return the favour.

I bring up attachment theory because like most science it started in animals and carried over when scientists said what if these attachment styles were also found in infants. Now it’s being studied in adults to the same level of replication found in children which is why modern psychology theories heavily rely on working through past traumas that broke the attachment so they can repair it.

You can actually use insecure=nice guy and match each nice guy trait to insecure attachment.

Avoidant is bad boy asshole aka alpha.

Disorganized is a combination of both (rp pua)

Secure is what women actually want which are the positive traits of beta and alphas. (Confidence, sense of humour, healthily stoic, pair bondable, vulnerable, hard working, empathetic) etc.

Hope this helps.

2_cider_jack · 2022-07-12T20:00:31+00:00

There is a dichotomy that emerges when it comes to dating apps (i.e. a small proportion of men get the majority of the likes). This dichotomy; however, is explained by dating apps simply being a buyers market for women, as opposed to the red pill explanation of hypergamy.

Outside of dating apps, there's very sparse evidence for it.

BackBae · 2022-07-12T16:15:45+00:00

It is not widely accepted, and attempting to apply it outside of the manosphere space is a great way to get discredited fast.

Here’s an academic journal article discrediting it: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/247779752_The_myth_of_the_alpha_male_A_new_look_at_dominance-related_beliefs_and_behaviors_among_adolescent_males_and_females

And if academic sources are too dense to start with, here’s some layperson articles you may find interesting:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/2016/oct/10/do-alpha-males-even-exist-donald-trump

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/the-myth-of-the-alpha-male-a7724971.html

Slight_Fig5187 · 2022-07-12T20:49:17+00:00

I've been reading such forums for a while now as a woman with a professional interest in human psychology, and I really think it reflects much more an innate competitiveness of men (that appears for example in sports too) than anything really happening in real life. Plus it simplifies the very complex topic of attraction, seduction and mating into very simplistic terms which might be soothing to young men who feel lost trying to understand it.

zhawadya · 2022-07-12T17:27:59+00:00

Does it simply mean that being conventionally attractive makes you more likely to attract conventionally attractive females? That's kind of obvious.

Does it mean that to be attractive you need to be super muscly and a dick to people all the time? That's cap

Evo_Psych · 2022-07-12T21:32:10+00:00

I always took it as slang, really. And I read/have read TONS of evolutionary psychology...and it never appears in those books, ever.

As slang you could say a beta guy is overweight, quits at everything, and lacks confident. And an alpha is the opposite. But it's cringe so I don't.

But when I hear it I don't see it as more than slang.

Besides that people change.

I lacked confidence. I gained it. I was an unemployed junkie. I got a great job that came with a deal on my dream apartment 2 mins from work.

I quit drinking. I hit the gym. I'm more comfortable talking to women.

But if I started calling myself alpha my good friends would rightfully mock me. 😆

Valuable_Programmer6 · 2022-07-12T17:10:00+00:00

Woman find confidence being secure with one self extremely attractive. Those are traits associated with "alpha males"

Red_Trapezoid · 2022-07-12T17:53:11+00:00

Total BS based on a discredited study on wolves in captivity.

wasted_basshead · 2022-07-12T18:03:15+00:00

It’s an incel term.

debatelord_1 · 2022-07-12T19:36:49+00:00

It started as a meme on 4chan. The irony was simply lost on people, as is often the case with memes that spread from 4chan to other places like YouTube etc. (Same thing with the sigma male btw.)

That being said I do think that the perceived status of men within social hierarchies does strongly influence their attractiveness.

ABlokeCalledGeorge8 · 2022-07-12T19:11:53+00:00

I think it has become something used in the mainstream. I have seen it in non RP communities and even recall seeing it in pop culture. Is it valid? I honestly think it's a bunch of bullshit that probably makes men think even less of themselves. The whole alpha/beta classification itself isn't even valid due to the fact that it originated in a study of the behaviour of wolves that was later deemed invalid because the wolves studied were in captivity.

Some people even make the whole alpha/beta thing seem like it's a predetermined condition and that if you were born a beta you are pretty much fucked. Of course this is bullshit. The other thing I hate about this idiotic school of thought is that it has an inherent necessity to put down others to make yourself feel better. "Don't be a beta male, do these 10 tips to become an alpha"

I am not against what some people recommend to become a better person, or to work on yourself to get a better physique, a better job, or take care of yourself instead of spending all your time chasing women. I think that is important and I agree 100% with that. Some of those people use the terms and sometimes I bare with them because I do think SOME of the things SOME of them say are good.

KuroKendo88 · 2022-07-12T19:29:04+00:00

It's total bullshit.

expansion420 · 2022-07-13T06:11:13+00:00

Whoever says they’re an alpha is not an alpha. I’ve seen people wear shirts that say alpha male on it lol a true alpha is not gonna walk around with a shirt that says alpha male lol

cangero0 · 2022-07-12T15:51:17+00:00

Women don't think about alpha or beta. Women think about HVM and LVM

Narbonar · 2022-07-12T15:45:57+00:00

I think the sigma-zeta continuum is more valid.

juliuspepperwoodchi · 2022-07-12T16:07:56+00:00

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medlabunicorn · 2022-07-12T21:38:20+00:00

Bullshit.

Not in the idea that all women want to marry the best man that they can, but in the idea that men don’t also want to marry the best woman that they can, and in the terp idea of what makes a man the ‘best.’

incredulitor · 2022-07-12T21:44:10+00:00

It seems like you're getting what you need out of the many responses clarifying and elaborating on various senses of "absolutely not", but just to speak more to what I think goes along with this in a lot of incel/RP-adjacent discussion:

Attraction between people is a multidimensional spectrum.

It's true that some people are on average rated more attractive than others.
It's not true that all women attracted to men find the same traits attractive.
It's also not true that even among the subset of women who general see appeal in the same traits that they would rank the traits they find attractive in the same order of importance.
It's true that having a lot of social connections, resources, influence, persuasive power, and confidence are attractive qualities in a man to a lot of women.
It's not true that it's impossible or even rare for a man to be attractive to a woman while lacking most or even all of those qualities.
Physical sex appeal helps.
The things that make up physical sex appeal are not really perceived the same way by men on average, especially TRP/incel men it seems, as they are by women. For example, women are much more likely to appreciate a man being slim or moderately fit, while men are more likely to view an extremely muscly/bodybuilder type look as what must be the ideal for straight women when in fact some straight women find that attractive and some are actually put off by it.
It is not required to be physically attractive in order to find someone to get into a relationship and/or have sex with you. It helps, but it's absolutely not an on/off switch.

I could go on, but I hope some themes are becoming apparent: framing things as alpha/beta is just one example out of a laundry list of ways that RP thinking takes some half-truths and turns them into lies by being completely unnecessarily black-and-white about it.

Understanding this particular aspect of the whole thing might help. However, no amount of that particular understanding is going to fix any individual person's struggles with self-confidence or tolerance for ambiguity that play into that black-and-white thinking. Hopefully it's a piece of the puzzle though.

XihuanNi-6784 · 2022-07-12T22:24:15+00:00

It's total BS. It was based on a study of captive wolves and the author himself retracted it when he saw that they don't behave like that in the wild.

But even more importantly, you cannot just extrapolate behavioural explanations from one animal to another. Humans have insanely complex social patterns and to boil it down to a binary or ternay system is baby brain playground stuff. The same way children think everyone is either a goodie or a baddie in a TV show, that's what RP analyses of human interactions look like.

Naus1987 · 2022-07-13T01:10:03+00:00

The idea of a leader and a follower mentality is something that exists in humanity.

It’s not hard to spot trends. Just don’t attribute random qualities to tends beyond what they are.

KayRay1994 · 2022-07-13T03:39:13+00:00

I think to an extent it is true, but it isn’t nearly as clear cut or black and white - it is worth mentioning that alphas and betas both have great and bad qualities so looking at everything from that singular perspective really takes away from the complexity of it all - though that’s all it is, there is some truth in it, but its extremely black and white and attempts to simplify a deeply complex topic

vcreativ · 2022-07-13T12:58:37+00:00

I haven't seen any normal guys/women unironically use it. Outside of insecure people.

Take a good look at the people calling themselves that and you'll understand that it cannot be true in the way that it's used. It's a classic manipulation tactic used in cults. First define a descriptor of the highest value, then immediately claim it for yourself. The following that stays, believes (in) you.

My take, focus on maturing emotionally and you'll basically be a superhero. You won't need armor nor weaponry.

2022-07-13T15:51:05+00:00

it's comical because every redpill man thinks he's an alpha and the rest of the world is beta

Title	Does the alpha/beta male classification actually have any validity to it or is it just BS?
Author	throwawaybeta208
Upvotes	46
Comments	147
Date	July 12, 2022 3:33 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/vxe1hj/does_the_alphabeta_male_classification_actually/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/does-the-alphabeta-male-classification-actually.1123037 https://theredarchive.com/post/1123037

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