"Be strong for those that need it" a masculinity the left needs but refuses.

Karmaze · 2024-12-10T19:31:16+00:00

The problem is if this doesn't come with some sort of dignity and respect, all this does is double down on male disposability.

MedBayMan2 · 2024-12-10T19:41:10+00:00

No, I am tired of trying to be strong for others. I am drained.

MisterDeagle · 2024-12-10T19:21:50+00:00

This is the same silly framing of masculinity that gets men marched off to war. No thanks.

Ok-Importance-6815 · 2024-12-10T19:49:53+00:00

there's just inherently a fundamental problem with any kind of "a real man is..." idea namely it makes mens personhood conditional. Being a real man is the male version of being an adult no more no less

YooGeOh · 2024-12-10T19:55:47+00:00

"Be strong so you can take whatever you want" is obvious is it's problems.

"Be strong for those who need it" is not the analogous alternative. At best it is a very charitable alternative of it.

In reality, the what "be strong for those who need it" means is that masculinity is predicated on being a resource for others.

The problem then is with the "those who need it" aspect. Who defines that? Left to the modern left, it becomes whichever group decides that they are oppressed at any given time. That tends to be the loudest group with grievances with the most access to voicing their grievances.

So in the end, it'll be, as it already is, masculinity is "be strong for rich white women".

It's not a great message.

Masculinity should be about who a person is internally. Good masculinity based on the individual then manifests as that individual being good for others. Thats how thenfocus should work. Benefitting others is an outcome of internally focused masculinity, however, rather than the focus being on everyone else externally and then hoping that maybe somehow trickles down to the individual man.

EL_overthetransom · 2024-12-10T23:05:31+00:00

So sick and tired of being told what to do and what to be purely for the benefit of people who hate me.

Sanguiluna · 2024-12-10T22:14:24+00:00

Be strong for those you WANT TO be strong for. The world isn’t entitled to your strength.

KatsutamiNanamoto · 2024-12-10T20:39:49+00:00

Fuck no. Men should start caring more about themselves, value their own life more. Be strong - maybe, if it's possible, but not for others. Never serve, never "man up".

ImprovementWarm2407 · 2024-12-10T22:36:30+00:00

Yeah no you're missing the point. Men have been told this for DECADES from the left and the right. The problem is men are realizing finally that they actually get the shit end of the stick constantly.

At least before the internet it was easy to be culturally shamed into fitting this role (not saying it doesn't happen on the internet today) but now thanks to the internet it is bringing light to all sorts of ways men have been fucked over and have been used.

All men want is for people to treat them like human beings not disposable soldiers but here we are yet again pushing men towards this idea that other people's lives are more valuable than theirs.

Ironically enough this is why Tate is popular because the bar is so low all this man has to say is "you have potential, you can be someone great" and men love it because he's talking about how they themselves can achieve greatness for themselves.

Men just want to be appreciated not be told they're a pack mule.

ZealousidealCrazy393 · 2024-12-10T19:23:25+00:00

I am a leftist, but I do not consider the idea of young men going to the right troubling. I do not agree with a lot of what the right does or believes, but we shouldn't treat it like a spreading disease. The left is acting like there is zero legitimacy to being rightwing. The left doesn't own young men, or anyone else. The left needs to stop acting like people owe them allegiance. There are a lot of valid reasons young dudes are going right. The misandry on the left for starters.

Telling young men it's problematic for them to be drawn to conservativism is, in my own opinion, just another way of invalidating them and telling them they just can't do anything right. There are plenty of conservatives who treat being on the left like it's a mental disorder and we do not need to be like them. People have a right to rally around whatever political ideas they want.

gratis_eekhoorn · 2024-12-10T18:52:03+00:00

No no no, this is counter productive, we should reject (the enforcement of) gender roles, defining ''masculinity'' is pointless, it's up to the individual that what it means to them and how they want to be.

Pasolini123 · 2024-12-10T20:58:33+00:00

I like your post, but I agree more with the majority of the comments here.

Masculinity, or at least some of its manifestations is wonderful, and I understand that young men often need to establish some positivie view of it in order to feel that they are needed, desired and maybe even loved.

But this topic is almost too present in the debate. Both on the left and on the right side of the political spectrum.

I hardly ever hear interviews with feminists, where the first question they would get, would be "how do you define femininity?", "what does being feminine mean to you?". Yet that's where most debates about men start and where they end, whereas real, everyday problems of men remain untouched. I appreciate heroic and strong men, who defend what they believe in. But, honestly, almost everybody does. Even hardcore radfems do as soon as they need to have things done or when they need someone to protect them.

Glarus30 · 2024-12-10T20:43:51+00:00

Nah, it's the ultra-left fanatics that blanket-blame men for everything, but still expect us the fix everything. It's repulsive and men are not buying that anymore.

Self sacrifice and protection are not beneficial anymore and men are correct to realize it. Why risk your health and wellbeing for someone else? Is my life worth less? How is that fair?

The pendulum has swung too far left, too much in women's favor and we don't have equality anymore, we have a priviledged 2-tiers system where society puts women above men. No sane man would subscribe to that.

And the sad part is that we should fight the 1%, not each other, but the divide and conquer strategy deployed by them works.

WhyDidntITextBack · 2024-12-10T21:17:18+00:00

God I hate that saying or any idea like that. I’ve always felt so much pressure to be the one who stays composed during stressful situations. I hate it. But I genuinely feel more scared of what would happen if I also dropped the mask. I feel as though I’d be seen in a lesser light or seen as not a “real” man or coward, etc. I hate it.

I hate how simply having a penis means I’m expected to put myself between my loved one, property, etc and danger. Me. Men. Just for being born with a penis.

Sorry but that’s not the kind of thing I want to teach our future generations. I want BOTH boys and girls to be taught to stand for themselves, those that can’t defend themselves, loved ones, etc. AND I also want BOTH boys and girls to be taught that it’s okay to let your emotions out, it’s okay to say what you feel and talk about it.

Masculinity should be framed in a way that describes it as being responsible, dependable, brave BUT not at the expense of oneself.

whordeum_sp · 2024-12-10T21:55:42+00:00

'And in the absence of the alternative, so many young men are buying the right's masculinity of "be strong so you can take everything you want".'

'I am sad for the men who buy such a selfcentered, shallow, bleak and isolating vision of masculinity'

'recent US election has highlighted a troubling trend: the rightward shift of young men'

Wrong. This is a narrative fabricated by bots sowing social division and reinforced by gender study grifters. No dude is walking around thinking 'yeah im gonna oppress some women and minorities and uphold the patriarchy today'.
Stop trying to forcefeed masculinity to men. We literally dont give a shit about it.
No it isnt the rightward shift of men. the recent election shows just how out of touch and absolutely repulsive femcel rhetoric is to the general population (men and women). Like that ad about hiding your vote from your husband and barrack getting on stage to patronize us. Wha a joke man

morallyagnostic · 2024-12-11T00:02:53+00:00

This is just one half of the equation. The graphs I've see show a slight movement of young men to the right, but an absolute torrent of young women moving left. That's the bigger shift in the demographics which is never brought up as an "issue" in the same negative way the male trend is. Why have so many women moved left and is it reflective of a party that panders to one sex to the detriment of the other?

SentientReality · 2024-12-11T13:01:43+00:00

Be strong for those that need it
fighting for those who are hurting
be champions

Why the hell are men supposed to be servants, saviors, and workhorses for other people? What is this regressive medieval mindset of antiquated gender roles? Why should men be expected to be this chivalrous knightly defender that you are describing?

Why can't men just be strong and healthy within themselves? Sure, if people want to help others, then great, knock yourself out. But that shouldn't be some social expectation that is put disproportionately on men. There's no reason why men should be encouraged to be "strong for others" any more than women should be.

If men's domineering masculinity has "caused incalculable harm" (as you put it) then why not sit back and let women take the reins and handle all the problems? I'm half serious. Perhaps there's too much focus on both the Left and the Right on pushing men to direct and lead other people in the "right way". Screw that, men don't need to be pressured to worry about other people's business all the time. A woman can spend all day powdering her face, painting her nails, chatting on the phone, and shopping with her boyfriend's money, and no one says she's a "woman-baby" who needs to "grow up". Women are allowed to live unproductive lives but men are shamed for "failure to launch". Why the double standard?

But, I agree with you that vulnerability, softness, and even embracing inner femininity is a sign of strength and health and sanity.

YetAgain67 · 2024-12-11T15:50:20+00:00

You ever notice how tough individuality is empowering for women, but toxic for men?

Low-Philosopher-2354 · 2024-12-12T05:36:16+00:00

I don't appreciate you trying to convince even a small amount of men that their purpose should lie in self sacrifice, especially considering the content of your opening statement. This seems entirely motivated by your desire to have more men on the left, not for the good of those men but for your own benefit. It also reads as if you're gating masculinity behind your own values, which is not only something that you're saying the right does but also serves as a huge part of what caused this shift in the first place.

Speaking of said shift, your assertion that young men are adopting a view of taking what they want is a disingenuous generalization at best which paints young men as violent warlords-to-be, which I suppose puts you right in line with the values the left is espousing now. Demonizing men will not and should not get you anywhere, and is another large part of why some young men have no interest in the left.

Overall your post is sickening, that you haven't the shame to think before attempting to slip traditional masculinity in here under the guise of making men feel welcome infuriates me. Others here have better insight than I do, they'll give and have given better feedback.

Some other thoughts, I'd like you to think about applying these guidelines to women, or rather what would would happen if you tried. Or even how you personally would feel about a post like the one you made, only directed towards your demographic. Come to think of it, I rarely see anyone on the left place any standards whatsoever on women, so this whole post feels like you advocating for ideals you personally would never have to uphold, virtues you would never need to embody and a burden you would never have to take. I don't see you encouraging women to support men and "champion for equality". Frankly the more I read of what you've said, the more I feel that you can take your manipulation and shove it. Respectfully, of course.

Baby_Arrow · 2024-12-10T20:40:10+00:00

I don’t believe that the rightward shift guarantees masculinity is to “take everything you want”.

I myself have moved towards the right on social issues this last year and have even switched my vote for this election cycle, but it has always been guided by “be strong for those who need it.”

I see growing number of our people have their jobs shipped overseas, hooked on fentanyl, committing suicide, having their roles as men diminished in modern society, all of these are on the rise and while I myself got several degrees and am economically safe I moved right to stand with these people to be prioritized once again via stricter immigration - less drugs coming in, less worker replacements for our left behinds, anti - DEI nonsense, and tariffs to encourage a return of jobs for these people.

Masculinity to stand up for those who need it exists on the right and left. The left just defines “those who need it” as women exclusively and call you a misogynist if you disagree. Fuck that. I will stand with my brothers who are cast aside by modernity and you should too.

devontenakamoto · 2024-12-11T01:50:24+00:00

The left would win more men by sending them a message that I think it’s sent women for a long time:

1) You should be a force for good in the world, but you should also set boundaries. You don’t have to sacrifice or defer to other people just because of your gender. Sacrificing for the right cause is still an honorable thing.

2) What you do is up to you, but self-mastery will give you the best shot at life. Self-mastery is worth it not just because of what you can do for others, but because of what you can do for yourself.

The cultural left’s approach to men fell into a trap that the cultural right’s approach to women did. The messaging is about what you, as a man or a woman, ought to do for other people at the expense of teaching self-mastery and boundaries. This is compelling to people who like that approach or are very agreeable, but eventually a lot of people end up feeling that they were mislead, neglected, or exploited.

The cultural left should affirm men and women who want self-mastery and boundaries for their own sake, as well as teach them to respect that desire in others.

ActualInteraction0 · 2024-12-10T21:51:08+00:00

What if it's not about left or right, what if it is about finding a community, friends, acceptance and escaping the sense that they are the problem.

AnemicRoyalty10 · 2024-12-11T00:10:53+00:00

I don’t agree with your general points, but I do agree that we badly need representations on the left of non-stereotyped, nuanced, three-dimensional masculinity.

Back in the day, being a liberal man (I know it’s not the sane thing) didn’t equate to being weak. You had men that supported many of the things we support, but were still strong, tough as nails, & rugged. Jesse Ventura is one example of this, albeit to a cartoonish degree. Unfortunately the left today is so far removed from giving a modicum of appreciation to such things that it will never happen.

BattleFrontire · 2024-12-11T12:29:53+00:00

I agree that there has to be some limits to what a man can use his strength for. But IMO, saying that a man's unique gender traits are only good when used for the benefit of others is bad, since we rightfully don't ask the same of women.

6-leslie · 2024-12-10T20:20:52+00:00

I agree with ZealousidealCrazy393’s comment.

Left or right, the same harmful gender roles where men are objects are enforced but wrapped in different packaging.

I’ll be strong for those I care about and want to be strong for. I’ll do it because I want to, not because of gender roles. I’m not an object. We are more than what we can do for others.

NotARealTiger · 2024-12-10T21:57:35+00:00

The recent US election has highlighted a troubling trend: the rightward shift of young men.

Can you show me what data you're looking at? I hear this repeated a lot but I think it's a myth.

PrestigiousEdge3719 · 2024-12-12T01:47:28+00:00

Why can't we just be men and exist without it being tied to if someone else benefits from our masculinity? I'm tired of being portrayed as an object of other people's acceptance. I don't care what a "real man" is even supposed to look like. It's absurd.

SlimShady1415512 · 2024-12-14T20:03:50+00:00

I don't trust dialectic understanding of politics anymore. The "left" in US elections is the side that is more pro war, more anti free speech, more fascist in its nature and supports openly fascist ideologies like feminism. So in 2024 election both choices are right wing. Ironically 2016 trump seems much more left wing than the "left" because he was anti war, anti free trade, pro bringing back jobs (i am not talking about his actual policies) etc. About the immigration issue the old school left was never that pro immigration, the most pro immigration people are libertarians and capitalists obviously. The dichotomy of politics should be ended to be honest.

Something that did redpill me recently about the voting rights is that "women" voting for wars which only men are forced to go and fight. They don't have to take the consequences of their actions because of this and that is fundamentally anti democratic. Obviously this isn't about voting rights but about forced drafting of men into wars they don't want to participate in.

Glum_Rent_9765 · 2024-12-14T23:15:36+00:00

It's sold as some hyper altruistic concept, but all it does is giving away your most valuable asset.

General_Alduin · 2024-12-11T20:06:39+00:00

I've said it already, the left needs their own Andrew Tate. Even pragmatically, young men are a valuable demographic and the left needs to change its tune to not scare them into the arms of grifters

Usual_Geologist_5290 · 2026-07-25T16:57:54+00:00

What the left needs to say it's weak to be selfish. It's strong to stand up to be kind, to be helpful. It's not women, it's not gay guys that are making you feel miserable. It's those at the top

Revolutionary_Law793 · 2024-12-10T20:10:10+00:00

try r/bropill please

Title	"Be strong for those that need it" a masculinity the left needs but refuses.
Author	Adduly
Upvotes	85
Comments	92
Date	December 10, 2024 5:53 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/1hb7oje/be_strong_for_those_that_need_it_a_masculinity/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/be-strong-for-those-that-need-it-a-masculinity-the.1538145 https://theredarchive.com/post/1538145

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