misandry in LGBT community?

SexEleven · 2022-12-14T20:55:30+00:00

I think it’s the same. The problem is that no one in these spaces thinks misandry exists. They would laugh if it were seriously proposed. Misandry to them is just social justice. As you said, the norm is to “punch down” as a way of producing “equity.” It’s a really sad mindset coming from a place of austerity and trauma. Rather than helping everyone who needs help and empathy, it is seen as not only acceptable but actually praiseworthy to scapegoat, tokenize, stereotype, and disparage men - even gay men, black men, poor men, and apparently sometimes transmen. Every successful ideology needs an enemy or demonic figure to take on all the projections of the true believers. I think it’s unbelievably sad and immoral that this happens in LGBTQIA+ spaces. You would think the huge number of gay/bi/pan/trans male suicides would create some empathy, but apparently not. The true believers can no longer see reality.

SuspicousEggSmell · 2022-12-14T21:19:07+00:00

Bi dude here, I avoid bi women spaces (which is kind of honestly all bi places that aren’t explicitly for men). At best they’re fetishy and my experience is that a of them have a “fluid” sense of boundaries. Many fujoshis are bi but people like to act like it’s just straight women and that it’s fine when lgbtq women treat men that way cause they’re also gay or something like that. Otherwise a lot of those spaces become about how wonderful women are and that men are shit. I find a lot of them will praise bi guys for being “so much better than straight men” and I just can’t imagine treating sexuality as token or personality trait like that, but oh well.

I’ve always found it easier to come out to my bro type friends than the super-lgbtq women and afab people I know. They just treated me the same and my sexuality didn’t become this massive thing where I became this weird toy, and those guys never felt the need to speculate about me and prod me about it before coming out. I honestly repressed a lot because of the ones who constantly prodded me about it and the only one who ever genuinely apologized about it was my gf (who also did it the least to begin with).

NullableThought · 2022-12-15T02:21:32+00:00

As a trans man, I have felt my manhood most disrespected by LGBT and feminist leftists. I have had people from these communities tell me directly to my face that "men suck" in response to one man doing something "bad". I've had these people say things like "I hate men [except trans men]". I've heard "leftists" online call for making men essentially second class citizens. These people seem to think the answer to the patriarchy is to replace it with a matriarchy.

As a gay man myself I started noticing and experiencing misandry (maybe not the right term?)

Yes, you are experiencing misandry. It's crazy to think there are some people who refuse to acknowledge that misandry exists and they will call you a misogynist if you ever point out misandry.

Sometimes I feel like the only group of people who care about misandry are trans men who have never been a part of the lesbian community. We see the most clearly the difference between how society reacts to sexism against women versus men.

knightfluttershy · 2022-12-14T20:40:45+00:00

There’s plenty of misandry in anti-LGBT spaces too (Sinfest is a major example). Misandry is accepted and justified pretty much everywhere at this point (look at how both right and “left” wingers LOVE to insult ‘incels’) so I don’t really see any point in singling one group out.

FtM_Jax0n · 2022-12-15T01:42:16+00:00

Yep, too much of it. Adding on too, as a trans guy, I so often hear “kill all men! Except not trans men!” There is nothing I hate more than that. The KAM thing is already absolutely insane and disgusting that it’s even socially acceptable to say that, and then they find a way to be transphobic along the way and separate trans and cis men. I hate these people so much.

danielnogo · 2022-12-15T02:39:46+00:00

Let me tell you my theory:

The gender binary, in the far left spaces that many lgbt people inhabit, is considered an oppressive relic of a patriarchal system that seeks to seperate people by the genitals so that some people can be given privileges based on those genitals and others can be subservient. Lots of people become non binary strictly as a political statement, they don't have any kind of dysphoria whatsoever, they simply view the gender binary as oppressive and therefore their resistance is to become non binary. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt here because part of me feels it really has to do with the victimhood hierarchy that has been setup on the left, where if you are a Trans disabled person of color, your voice matters the most, and if you are a Cis het white person, you need to shut the fuck up. An easy way to increase your rank on the victim hierarchy is to claim you identify as something that requires almost nothing from you, such as being non binary, you don't have to take hormones or get surgery, you simply declare it and maybe do some gender bending with your clothing.

Going back to my point, being part of the standard gender binary, makes you somewhat of an enemy to lots of left wingers. To them, you are choosing to participate in an artificial construct that has oppressed lots of people, and men were the beneficiaries of this oppression and therefore you are a sinner that is refusing to atone for their sins, and is actually choosing to actively benefit.

That's my two cents I hope it makes sense.

hottake_toothache · 2022-12-14T21:21:48+00:00

The problem is worse now than it was in 2017.

devasiaachayan · 2022-12-14T20:00:44+00:00

I have seen some trans women adopting those toxic traits and priveleged attitude that many toxic women have after transitioning. Even though their life was so miserable being percieved as a man and nearly all of their problems that time was due to misandry

ScreenPrintWalrus · 2022-12-15T01:14:30+00:00

Though certainly not a part of LGBT, I have found misandry to be somewhat prevalent in online communities centered around polyamory. I frequently come across comments where switching the gender from "cisdude" to "woman" would get you banned on most subreddits. I find this behavior, and its justifications ("Men are just not used to hearing unfiltered opinions") incredible.

I mention this only because LGBT and poly have a great deal of overlap, so this may have some relevancy.

burntoutpyromancer · 2022-12-15T01:07:27+00:00

Trans man here, and that is sadly my experience, too. Even in trans support groups, there were no resources for us at all since it was expected that we basically take testosterone and pass immediately. Apparently, passing always works perfectly and is the only struggle or insecurity we face - never mind that we're also trying to navigate a pretty tricky situation and deal with facets of our life that we haven't encountered before. I'll never forget the one meeting where a trans woman monopolised the entire conversation and shut down everyone who tried to allude to struggles of their own; and when I mentioned that I felt insecure about some things, she flat-out told me that "if you have problems, that's your own fault".

I'm in no way trying to discredit trans women or LGBT groups as a whole. I don't want to fall (or cause people to fall) into the other extreme. But I'm pretty concerned about these developments since they don't help anyone at all - they drive a wedge between people that should be united by a common goal and alienate those who might otherwise be sympathetic. During my time as an activist, more and more unironical "cis people are the enemy" and "kill all men" opinions popped up even in local groups. The focus shifted from outreach and advocacy to an "us versus them" attitude, and "them" often included those fellow LGBT people who were deemed to "have it easy".

Eventually, I got pretty disenchanted and quietly dropped out of all those groups. I'm still trying to do my thing, but I'm doing it on my own, trying to be informative and patient instead of hateful. And after transitioning, I can confidently say that the grass isn't greener on the other side - it's just yellow in different places.

BKEnjoyer · 2022-12-14T20:29:17+00:00

Lots of outwardly misandristic radfems are lesbians so there’s that, I’m not sure about other stuff

hello_marmalade · 2022-12-15T02:47:08+00:00

Yep. Misandry and a lot of shitty things said about straight people. I understand why, and where it comes from, but it still sucks. My experience mostly came from BDSM communities where people would just say off color shit about cis people and straight people, and men. Also being a crispy browno myself, people would sometimes just say random off color shit about white people, presumably thinking I agree. It’s super fucking uncomfortable and super lame.

FrostieTheSnowman · 2022-12-15T06:15:39+00:00

I'm a straight guy, but I've definitely seen my fill of misandry too. The weird thing is, other men I know absolutely don't see it at all unless I literally walk them through it. The programming is soooo deep. Hell, my best friend is what one would call, "a man's man," and he's a well-informed leftist, but even he recoils any time I mention the topic. He's coming around, but it's taken a LOT of uncomfortable conversations.

Now anytime the ladies in our friend group (including his fiance) start talking wild, we kinda just make eye contact and chuckle, because it's never worth it to point out the hypocrisy. Only makes us targets. He's ultimately not fussed about it, but it genuinely bothers me, especially since I think it's super disrespectful to him.

Garfish16 · 2022-12-14T23:53:41+00:00

Political lesbianism can be extremely hateful.

hshsgdve · 2022-12-15T02:29:28+00:00

Yes, the people in the “Woke” communities (including within LGBT communities) are directly responsible for many male suicides.

Maybe people should a picture of a young man post suicide to every person who says something like “kill all men”.

I think people who say hatefully misandrist things, never actually make the connection that there is a human on the receiving end.

throwburneraway2 · 2022-12-14T19:47:53+00:00

Im not gonna talk about this from the lgbt perspective but the apparent misandry in a lot of online spaces makes it difficult for me to relate and support their beliefs, despite me completely understanding why they hold those misandrist beliefs. Idk about you but its just so obnoxious being lumped in with all the shitty men despite ne not even having been in a relationship in years or doing anything close to as bad since I was pretty much a kid (teen)

Illustrious-Lie6583 · 2022-12-14T23:40:27+00:00

Yea it's put me off completely since it's such an easy go to for some people

Poly_and_RA · 2022-12-15T14:34:15+00:00

Yes sure. No if's or but's about it at all.

I've gradually become convinced that the CORE problem with a lot of spaces on the left centered on minorities, discrimination and equality is that people believe that all privileges are pure in the sense that on all axes of discrimination, one end has solely advantages, ang therefore no genuine disadvantages at all.

Let me explain.

Some privileges are fairly "pure" -- when I say that what I mean is, being in this demographic has lots of advantages, and no disadvantages worth mentioning. For example I'm white and cis. I've NEVER experienced any discrimination or disadvantage worth mentioning from being either.

If someone was discussing racism, and completely ignoring the concerns of white people, I'd have no objections to that since my opinion is that white people are (at least where I live) not experiencing any racism worth mentioning. The same if someone was discussing equality for cis and trans people -- in my life there ARE no substantial examples of problems experienced mostly by cis people.

But gender is a very notable exception. Yes I think on the overall male privilege is real; the advantages are bigger than the disadvantages. (though by how much depends on where you live -- Scandinavia and Saudi Arabia are not the same!)

But it's a case of having a big pile of advantages; and a smaller, but still very substantial pile of disadvantages. It's NOT true that we can discuss gender-equality and completely ignore the concerns of men, or that it's reasonable to claim that men do not experience nontrivial discrimination.

And yet, these spaces generally pretend gender is just as binary an axis as for example race and sexual orientation.

They pretend that there's no need to talk about the problems experienced mostly by white people, straight people and men -- because these groups don't HAVE any real problems. And they're right about white and straight people; but they're WRONG about men, and their failure to recognize this is at the root of most misandry shown.

Because it means when you list genuine and substantial problems faced mostly by men; they're hostile, dismissive or noncaring about all of this -- which makes sense for someone who believe these problems don't EXIST.

"(white) cishet men" has become the go-to standard demographic to go to if you want a group to ATTACK, a perpetrator group. Someone who's always a perpetrator, and never a victim of discrimination.

And nobody notices; or cares, that 3 of the 4 privileges genuinely ARE fairly pure, but the 4th one is VERY much not.

Thermidor_1794 · 2022-12-23T04:06:08+00:00

The discrimination against cis gay men has become quite extreme within some LGBT community organizations. And I am not talking about nebulous "microaggressions" here. I am talking about one of the most severe forms of discrimination.

At one such community organization, an archives created 50 years ago by gay men, the last eight years has seen systematic employment discrimination against men. Straight women are hired over any men (this is actually implied in their HR equity statement on job postings). Indeed, the organization's top position has been held by a straight woman for the last six years. She basically only hires women.

Historically, this was a volunteer-run organization. It was literally countless hours of unpaid work performed by gay men over the decades that built and brought the organization to where it is today. It has also been gay men (mostly white) who have financed the organization for decades. This has taken the form of monthly donations as well as bequests. Some of the latter have been over $1 million. This money pays for the staff, who are overwhelmingly cis females. These very women then proceed to discriminate against men in employment. 90% of the 36+ hiring decisions in the past eight years have gone to women! This is an outcome that cannot be explained by chance. It is deliberate! In other words, these feminist women (and some men) have successfully got gay men to pay for their own inquisition!

sparkydoggowastaken · 2022-12-15T17:56:33+00:00

in online spaces the loudest voices are correct, not the most popular. in online LGBT discourse? ive seen some. not a fuck ton but some. in real life? i am in theater and i have never seen a gay person be anything but equal. some of the people ive met are assholes for sure but theyre equally assholes to everyone. 90% of lgbt people are great and definitely treat everyone (everyone) equally, the last 1% of real assholes are what you see online a ton, just like in every community that gets misrepresented.

odoof12 · 2022-12-19T19:41:41+00:00

there defo is as a pansexual man I've gotten this first hand from seeing my trans friends rediculed by terfs too being told I couldn't join my schools gsa club because it was a safe space for lesbains. ( not in those words) but seriously my schools gsa has no gay men in it at all. also anytime theres a gay villian its a man. I once talked too one of my friends about the homophobia I've experienced ( I grew up in rural Alabama and I'm a especially feminine man) and she kept downplaying it and comparing it too hers claiming she had it worse because she was a woman and gay (she grew up in Chicago)

also ivew noticed that non binary people who are afab and trans men are often allowed into spaces like the gsa while gay men trans women and amab non bionary people aren't.

iwonder8 · 2022-12-15T16:47:23+00:00

Hypocrisy in any form is very frustrating. In this case, the feelings behind the reasons for why it occurs are understandable but the behavior is just not acceptable.

Money-Pin-4728 · 2025-02-04T23:59:36+00:00

Je fréquente une association LGBT+ de la moyenne ville de province ou j'habite. Je précise que je m'identifie actuellement en tant qu'homme cisgenre (même si la question de mon genre est complexe car j'ai des doutes) et j'ai même développé une forme d'intersexuation (développement de caractéristiques féminines à l'adolescence, qui m'ont conduit à une opération) et je me défini comme gay ou pédé. Je me sens bien dans cette asso même s'il y a peu de pédés.

Une personne a publié un message dans notre groupe whatsapp pour proposer à celleux qui le voulaient de créer un collectif drag. L'idée de tester de participer à ce collectif me plaisait et j'ai rejoins la conversation en ligne sur insta en cours de route (une partie des membres de ce nouveau collectif s'étaient déjà rencontré.e.s lorsque je suis rentré dans la conv).

Dans la conv insta de ce nouveau collectif drag, j'ai vu passer 2/3 propos misandres, on dénigrait les mecs cis tous sans distinction... en précisant ALL MEN.... j'ai tout de suite réagit, en utilisant la communication non violente, et en disant que je me suis senti heurté quand j'ai lu ces propos car je me définissais actuellement comme mecs cisgenre.

Tous les membres du groupes, aucun mec cisgenre, me sont tombés dessus en me disant qu'iels étaient misandres et que du fait de mon genre je faisais partie automatiquement des classes sociales dominantes.

J'ai essayer d'entamer le débat, le plus respectueusement possible... je n'ai ressenti aucune empathie. Pour elleux, même un mec cisgenre pédé est un dominant qui nuit aux femmes, qui doit se déconstruire, etc.

Mon interprétation est qu'iels classifient et hiérarchisent les luttes. Et vu mon vécu est les nombreuses discriminations et persécutions et problèmes psys que j'en ai développé, j'ai trouvé cela extrêmement violent. C'était il y a 2 jours et je ne m'en remets toujours pas.

Iels tenaient aussi des propos que si j'avais été un mec trans, ils auraient eu de l'empathie pour moi, mais pas dans mon cas car je suis un mec cis. Les messages que j'ai reçu sur le groupe n'avaient aucune empathie, c'était d'une violence..... j'en suis encore choqué..... j'ai même pensé un suicide tellement ca m'a remué le couteau dans mes plais des nombreuses discriminations déjà vécues au cours de ma vie.... horrible....

Pasolini123 · 2022-12-15T05:11:03+00:00

To play devil’s advocate, these people have been victimized and abused by “normal” society, the prototype of which are cis straight white me. The reality is women and poc have played as much of a role as white men have in victimizing these people, but it’s easier to target white men because traditionally we have been top dog in the western social ladder (actually it’s more like rich and powerful straight white men, but that’s a difficult distinction to make). The reality is is that these people are hostile to men because they have been abused and traumatized by some men. This doesn’t make the vitriol worse in my opinion, I’m of the belief that this behavior only perpetuates the cycle of victimization and trauma that is hurting our society.

Title	misandry in LGBT community?
Author	hypnogogicsham
Upvotes	224
Comments	51
Date	December 14, 2022 7:07 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/zlze75/misandry_in_lgbt_community/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/misandry-in-lgbt-community.1208126 https://theredarchive.com/post/1208126

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