Can men ever do “enough?”

Extra-Strike2276 · 2021-09-29T19:35:00+00:00

My wife has refused to work for 20 years. She used to complain I work to much, so I quit and got a 40 hr a week job and stayed there for a year. After living on a barely above minimum wage for that long, she stopped complaining. She also knows if she pushed me to far I'll just pack and leave. Now that we're older we get along much better. It really is about setting boundaries and not letting her cross them. It's not easy to do when you love her, and want to keep her happy.

Brave-Evidence2793 · 2021-09-29T19:20:43+00:00

No.

Seriously, no. If men ever get to the point of "enough" and still have life in them, it means society (mainly women) can still profit off their labor, and a higher "enough" needs to be found.

The trope of the nagging wife doesn't come out of nowhere, men relaxing for any reason is enough to get people on your back about it.

Suck-Less · 2021-09-29T18:07:19+00:00

This absolutely is true but there is a simple solution. You need to learn to state your boundaries. Some women actually think making good money comes easy and can fit in a 9-5 job. That has not been my experience.

I told my wife some time ago, never expect me to go into management. I could make more but I’m not willing to go from 80hr weeks to forever.

When I am focusing on a project and my wife is unhappy with the attention she is getting I remind her where the nice things in the house come from. I also make time specifically for her when I have that time.

You have to state those boundaries and what benefits come at what cost.

Fortunately I actually love my job and my wife is very understanding about it, but there are times that I have to set boundaries.

Crafty-Tackle · 2021-09-29T22:58:42+00:00

Bill Gates got divorced. So, you can see that there will never be enough money. Or, if there is, she can just divorce you, keep half the money, and do her own thing. Being single is always freeer than being in a relationship.

caem123 · 2021-09-29T21:27:09+00:00

You prioritize yourself first.

DouglasWallace · 2021-09-29T23:02:42+00:00

You missed that when you do become the desired high-earning provider for your family, you are therefore going to be earning more than the average woman, and be socially blamed for the so-called gender pay gap.

13urneracct · 2021-09-29T21:45:03+00:00

You’re always gonna get docked on something, depending on the person. Because people apply these ideals to real life, and they become unrealistic goals that can’t be met.

Unfortunately, men can’t win in this scenario you’ve given. He’ll always be lacking something (the time or the credentials).

How to deal with this? I once read some quote on playing these games with women that said “The only way to win, is to never play.”

If you’re happy with yourself, truly, who cares what anyone thinks?

LoFiGai · 2021-09-30T03:12:31+00:00

No

My little brothers gf wants him to gain more weight and eat more, essentially become bigger and stronger even though he has gained 20lbs since they met. Nothing is ever enough for women, they act according to how they feel in the moment.

0utsid3r1620 · 2021-09-29T21:51:24+00:00

The short answer is NO especially for a younger guy. You're better off alone than dealing with the current generation of women.

togotfury1983 · 2021-09-30T01:02:37+00:00

No. Being a man means never being good enough

SadisticLiberties · 2021-09-29T19:31:33+00:00

Serious No. In my experience, I am convinced 95% of Women can't be content. For some reason I won't pretend to understand, if you give an inch a mile is taken and resentments build. Look at the dating scene and online dating apps for research.

slipkid223 · 2021-09-29T18:10:27+00:00

No. Don't even bother.

DouglasWallace · 2021-09-29T23:14:58+00:00

What you need to do is find yourself first. Make your own life, determine your own path. That VERY rarely happens to men until they are in their late 20s, sometimes not until they are in their 30s.

Then, you can take a look at the women around you and determine if you want to let any of them affect your life by being a partner. NEVER let your emotions fool you into thinking you have found 'the one' or that you can make a life-long commitment. There is always another woman (that's the first thing many people say to someone who's just broken up, so it is clearly just as true before you even start the relationship). There is no guarantee of commitment for life, though it does happen in about 50% of marriages, that's really not very good odds when you consider the expense.

A men's rights forum is not the right place to look for a mentor (though you might stumble across one). Go to somewhere like Regarding Men, or your local Men's Shed or search for a Men's Meeting in your area.

McFeely_Smackup · 2021-09-30T00:55:54+00:00

it's a cliche that women want to marry rich and powerful men, and then criticize and call them negligent for literally everything that provides the lifestyle they wanted.

Flipside07 · 2021-09-30T03:43:41+00:00

What my fella makes is nothing to do with me, if he pays half the housold bills we share then I'm happy. We are 50/50 in everything. Setting agreements on who's chore is for who etc.

darknessblae · 2021-09-29T20:10:41+00:00

Get the money first. The rest will come!.... and also get a person who sees you as more then financial stability. ... and condoms..... lots of protection. and know how a prenup works.. place down strong boundaries... don't let others dictate your value!!

BorgSimulation · 2021-09-29T23:51:33+00:00

The only answer is to walk away. I know of very few men who aren’t being shafted. That life is a mirage to trick you. Don’t be fooled.

DIES-_-IRAE · 2021-09-29T20:27:24+00:00

Feminism Rule #1: Blame men. says no, they cannot.

Feminism requires the Patriarchy to be real as a function of its existence in the same way Jesus is required for Christianity to exist. Without men to scapegoat the whole thing just crumbles.

And double the "no" because Feminism has no endgame. It's an unironic way of life for too many of them. Waking up believing you are a brave freedom fighter standing bravely in the face of a horde of evil, nasty, toxicly masculine men is a solipsistic happy-place many Feminists share apparently...

So, finally, no. Nothing you do will ever be good enough. Nothing, because you are required like the KKK requires Black people.

IgneousAnimal0 · 2021-09-29T21:06:33+00:00

Even though I'm young (22/M) I've been in this situation, not specifically with kids but with an ex that lived with me. I find the easiest ways to solve this problem have been as follows:

Step 1: Don't get married, never said you can't, date, but just don't marry, seen it fail countless times with counteless men I know that are from my age group to men twice my age. Getting bound to today's women by a legal contract is most often a death trap, one that will more than often cost you everything you've worked to gain and then some.

Step 2: Always make sure youre the one with the name on the lease/own the property/paying the rent so she can't kick you out, and get a vasectomy, can't have anything to tie you to them if you don't have kids, and if you really want to father a child, adopt. Earth is overpopulated as it is. (Fun fact, there are also more boys than girls in the foster care system, and boys are more likely to age out of the system than girls are, why don't we do our part in the fight for equality and take one of those boys home, and show them what a proper male role model is, am I right?)

Step 3: Keep ya head up kings. Remember that you are the prize, don't ever let women belittle you and say they "don't need no man", or make you feel disposeable. if they really don't need you, tell them "The door is right there, if you don't need me then pack your bags." The women that say that are usually the ones that still continue to demand child support and alimony payments, aka the ones that tend to be on the baby trapping/marriage trapping spectrum of crazy/unstable. (cough cough probably because the money used isn't actually spent on the child most of the time cough) Funny how that works. Might as well call it wife support, cause the women that do this ain't fooling anyone at this point. 😂

And of course fellas, the last step: always set your boundaries, and be firm about them. I've learned that a woman will ultimately have more respect for a man with clearly enforced standards and boundaries, than someone who is a spineless doormat (coming from a former doormat btw, my former self disgusts me) and if she doesn't like or takes issue with said boundaries, then simply point and show her that the door is that way, and she can find another person willing to put up with her nonsense. Boom, end of story. Easy peasy. lmao. Life is too short to be with a woman that makes you unhappy, remember that what one person won't do, another one might. Live long and prosper, bois. 🖖🏼🖖🏼

Yes I realize I probably sound like some PUA loser but I've had a complete change in myself, not from reading some idiotic fake books on how to be a pickup artist, and recently this past year, and have just focused on being more confident in myself, and realizing that I matter. That I am enough, I've been told that I'm funny, I'm a musician (drummer and intermediate level pianist) , and an "overall great person" (a review from an old friend of mine) I tried these things for myself and people I know as well have tried for themselves, including my father himself, and honestly I've never been more content with myself and life. Mind you, I'm not some super good looking tall guy with money, Hell, I'm not even average looking. I'm a big dude, but I'm making changes in my diet and exercising, and reinventing myself.

Being funny just goes a long way, in general, even if you're fuck ugly. And I did eventually realize that confidence and an abundance mentality can actually get you places with women. Cause then some of them like to try and make you into one of their little projects and try be the one that changes you or "tames" you, and they actually end up thinking that they're special enough to do so.

Too many rom-coms and Disney movies, that's honestly what it is. Romance has been perverted in such a crappy way in the US and the modern world. But seriously, don't ever let a woman make you feel like you aren't man enough, or enough in general, because they know nothing about the realities of what it's like to be a man in society.

This is mainly just the ramblings of a former simp. But take this advice if you wish, or take it with a grain of salt. Either way. I'm just doing my part to help my fellow men out there, and try and save you from the crap I've had to experience dealing with dating terrible, unstable, sadistic, and emotionally unavailable women that lacked empathy for men. It helped me, maybe it can help you too. And I'm grateful to the men who came before me in my family and friends that gave me this advice over and over.

At first I refused to listen, because I was worried about how women that act like OPs S/O would react (I'm aware that it isn't all women, but many modern women do act this way due to feminist ideals being spoon fed to society that tell then they're strong and independent while also perpetual victims of the big bad patriarchy) but now? I just don't care, because it's my life. It's your life, time to take back your pair of testes, boys. Because now I feel fucking great, and I don't ever wanna look back at the old me ever again. 😁😃

TL;DR: Don't get married marriage is a sham, be independent, you're the prize, and set boundaries, and maintain them with an unshakeable will. Work on yourself to shape yourself into what you wanna be, kings. Keep ya crowns on. Don't let anyone disrespect you and make you feel worthless/disposable. 👑🤘🏼💪🏼✊🏼✊🏼🤘🏼

Edit: Thank you for the upvotes and the awards, I appreciate it. 💯 Every male and female in this sub is sexist, misogynistic, woman-hating cis-gender scum, and I love you all. 😂 /s

[Footnote: the /s is mainly for the not-so bright feminists that tend to lurk in this sub that don't seem to have a basic grasp of the concepts of humor, jokes, (and I mean ones that are ACTUALLY funny, ones that aren't just jokes about how horrible men are or the ever- so-original vagina/period jokes like most female comedians that identify as feminists I've seen do) or satire.]

Dogrose22 · 2021-09-29T18:24:53+00:00

I’m sorry you feel you have to ask this, it saddens me to read this.

Please don’t think you have to live your life seeking approval or worth from others, regardless of their gender. You don’t need anyone’s permission to be who you are and what you want to be, if anyone ever makes you feel you are not ‘good enough’, question their motives, don’t immediately feel responsible for their emotions or wants/ demands.

Have confidence in yourself, acknowledge that you are entitled to be happy and please don’t let anyone convince you otherwise.

I’m a woman so I understand I’m perhaps not the person you wish to hear advice from, but I wish you all the best and hope that one day, very soon, men won’t have to ask these questions and instead, will simply be able to live their lives and not doubt that they are loved and valued.

Fist_of_the_mad_gods · 2021-09-29T22:10:30+00:00

The best way I found to deal with this nonsense is to not bother. After all if you stay single you will never have to worry about not being good enough. Besides, it's just not worth it.

No wife, peaceful life.

Stinky_Stephen · 2021-09-29T19:39:35+00:00

Don’t be a father

evaneli13 · 2021-09-30T02:36:56+00:00

You know how many first, second, and third dates that I have been on that women don't thank me for dinner?

I can't count. Sometimes I would get laid or get a blowjob but where is my thank you?

I am older now to realize that women don't hold more value than me.

If you have sex with me, that is not a favor or a thank you. I am a equally as important and I am having sex with YOU. I am doing you the favor of sleep with me.

I just want a thank you

I am soon to be divorce so I have way more shit to share but I am so fucking angry that I don't want to re-hash that now.

EnvironmentalWar4627 · 2021-09-29T18:26:10+00:00

It's crazy how men have to balance work and personal life while women don't have to do that at all. And yet still every third article in women's magazines is how to balance work life and home. They act like they are struggling with it even when men all know thats fake.

theoracleofosiris · 2021-09-30T00:06:07+00:00

How do I deal with it? MGTOW.

2021-09-29T21:20:56+00:00

Growing up, mom was the provider, dad was the emotional support. Not one-to-one, but pretty close. Worked fine, but my parents had been married 20 years before I came along.

SgtRinzler · 2021-09-29T22:38:56+00:00

Ultimately I've found its best to just focus on yourself and say fuck off to literally everyone's opinions but the ones you let into your inner circle. When people are clear with you about where each of you stand with each other that's when respect and cooperation can flourish

realrenarac · 2021-09-29T22:46:06+00:00

murt · 2021-09-29T22:59:49+00:00

Life is complicated and different for every family send every individual so I can only tell you about my experiences and choices. My dad was a provider and he was not absent as a father but traveled a lot with with work and I don't have many memories of us playing football or other sports together when I was a kid, but plenty of great family memories at holidays and special occasions. My mum did most of the child rearing. I probably didn't get as much fatherly advice and affection as some kids but I had a happy childhood overall and he made sure our family never wanted for anything. I think I have found a healthier balance with my wife and kids. I work in tech, I enjoy my job most of the time although it can be stressful and challenging at times. I'm still the primary provider for my family because I inherited that expectation from my dad, but I only travel a few times a year with work and only for a week or two at a time. I spend loads of time with my kids and can have deep conversations about the things they're interested in because of the time I have invested in them. I don't expect I'll ever make as much money as my dad did in his career but he came from poverty, so being able to provide for your family in abundance was like overcoming the greatest challenge in life for him. Setting your family up for success financially was like winning life. He put me in a position where I could choose to tilt the balance back towards being more in touch with my children emotionally. I wouldn't have had that option if it hadn't been for the endless years of hard work he put in. He hated the travel, and plenty of other things about work wore him down towards the end of his career. But it was the right decision for him and his family, and I believe I'm making the right decisions for me and my family. There is no right size fits all. It's about trying to find the best balance you can from your starting point.

mgtowolf · 2021-09-29T23:18:37+00:00

I dealt with it by getting the snip, and not letting women move into my house anymore lol.

tommytimbertoes · 2021-09-29T23:50:00+00:00

Simple. I never got married and never had kids. I learned that in my 20s after seeing all the trouble they caused. Now I'm 63 and so glad I never married! No woman will ever screw me over.

New-Idea-7061 · 2021-09-30T07:26:59+00:00

I deal with it by becoming a NEET lmao. I know it's not good for me but yeah I will never be a provider anyway even if I got a shitty minimum wage job so I refuse to partake in the society.

DecimatingDarkDeceit · 2021-09-30T09:31:44+00:00

As a 25M myself; seeing from my Dad (divorced long ago) my Uncle (divorced) my aunts Husbands. (They are still married to my aunties) The answer is; in the eyes of the women; is a defnitive resounding No. They always think the men is incompotent, he never does enough; he is this and he that. I have see the women never satisfies long before I have stepped into maturity.

TheStumblingWolf · 2021-09-30T10:43:58+00:00

Probably not. This is only a problem if your life is about asking what you can do for women. Put yourself first and find women that are compatible with your life.

anothergoodbook · 2021-09-30T11:37:46+00:00

I am a woman (wife, mom). My husband has worked a lot to keep me from having to work more than I do (I used to be only a stay at home mom, I work part time now).

I look as his working as being a loving, doting father. Yes when he is home he is present and enjoys being with the kids (he didn’t have that as a kid with his dad). When he is working I view that as being a great dad and husband. It gives us what we need (and most of what we want). He’s teaching our kids life lessons by getting up and going to work everyday. It doesn’t make him less of a father.

Danube27 · 2021-09-30T12:29:05+00:00

How do you deal?

You don't. Find someone better who will love and/or appreciate you even if you can't be all of those things.

Reddit1984Censorship · 2021-09-30T14:11:45+00:00

Is not a dilemam is just irrational.
The only way to win is to not play the game.
Focus on you and only on you, we are not in a traditional society anymore you being a ''men enough'' in 2021 means literally nothing, is you on your own doing the best for your life forget about anything else because it doesnt exist anymore.

coercedaccount2 · 2021-09-30T16:04:30+00:00

No, women do not know what "enough" is. Whatever you do, it won't be "enough". Women's want is infinite.

The only way to win is not to play.

sleepyJoeBidet · 2021-09-30T03:42:53+00:00

Not until enough rational people actually fight back, without going into crazy land supporting things like QAnon etc.

HawaiianShirtsOR · 2021-09-29T18:37:33+00:00

I'm stuck in this very situation. My solution is to give up sleep. It's a terrible, unsustainable solution, but unless a check for a million dollars drops in my lap, it's the only option I have.

ThrillaDaGuerilla · 2021-09-30T03:24:05+00:00

You looking at shit all wrong, like so many men do.

You don't live your life striving for approval from your wife or society.....you seek only the approval of yourself.

Having other people, even your wife, validate your existence is bullshit.

You have to look in the mirror and be happy with yourself first....when you hit that level, others will follow your lead. That's how you become respected.

If you want to be the provider/protector because that's the role that brings you joy..you fucking do it, and you do it because its what you want.

Want to be the SAHD?..fucking do it, and do it well.

At the end of the day, its not society or even your wife looking back at you in the mirror.....its just you.

Be confident in what you do, and do shit for the right reasons....and you'll be just fine.

ManofGod1000 · 2021-09-29T23:59:58+00:00

I deal with it by walking away from it all, simple as that. I owe society nothing, I owe Christ everything. :)

Ukman_44 · 2021-09-30T13:40:46+00:00

Decide for yourself what's enough and make sure to do that.

Who cares what everyone else thinks?

True_Butterscotch_46 · 2021-09-29T17:57:18+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Melohdy · 2021-09-29T21:01:34+00:00

B A L A N C E, balance. - Ramierez

RaphBoo · 2021-09-29T21:41:03+00:00

Here is the thing. You dont need to be the provider or the caring type.

You do you.

A man choses its path.

mikesteane · 2021-09-29T23:17:22+00:00

It's a matter of knowing when and how to draw boundaries.

veryniceguy1980 · 2021-09-29T23:56:04+00:00

Stop trying to please others or conform to societies expectations or you will not be happy.

Instead, find your own balance and what you are comfortable with as much as possible within your life circumstances.

drunkncrazy · 2021-09-30T00:07:13+00:00

Once you can do enough they'll say you're doing it wrong

Silentpoolman · 2021-09-30T00:23:59+00:00

Nope. And certainly not if you're average.

--Reddit-Username2-- · 2021-09-30T11:46:09+00:00

40+, didn’t realize this until late 30s. Just stop playing that game.

Put together a moral framework to operate in that works for you. Something that does you the way you want to be done, and prevents from harming others. Stop worrying about what everyone else thinks and just be happy. If someone close to you is trying to break you out of this mold, they don’t have your best interests at heart and you should consider putting distance between you and them.

Starmind0 · 2021-09-30T13:06:02+00:00

Please, focus on yourself more. Lots of men don't do that. It's more important to keep yourself happy and satisfied, specially if you want to help others.

pappo4ever · 2021-09-30T16:05:35+00:00

Think about this: Brad Pitt and Elon Musk got divorced, multiple times.

The best looking actor in the world, and the richest, most popular man in the world, got divorced many times. So if they couldn't do it, do you think you can do better?

elebrin · 2021-09-30T17:54:19+00:00

If you seek to be an ultimate provider (monetary/economic benefit), you’re labeled or become someone who “isn’t there” or “loving” enough.

Not only that, but if you are actually good at it and have a decent income and a nice place to live, you are an evil wealthy person so they will hate you for that.

mevans75502 · 2021-09-30T21:44:58+00:00

When it comes to being a father, in my experience men are at a disadvantage. When my ex and i split up after having a child together, she became involved with a rapist and abuser and believed and followed everything he said, nothing i or anyone in her family said could make a difference and open her eyes. I had no experience in custody matters when it came to going to court and did not know at the time that if you are not married to the mother, you have no legal rights to the child By default, the mother has sole custody unless you are already married.. It cost tens of thousands of dollars to establish my parenting rights and to attempt to protect my son in the court system. Typically when a couple goes to court in custody and abuse is involved, it is usually the father that is considered the agressor, but in my case, it was my ex that created this situation that was putting our child at risk. The court system just would not listen court case after court case. I have had more than one lawyer tell me that the court system is going to the give the mother chance after chance no matter how much she screws up. For the past 5 years , i have been the only stability my son has seen as his mother bounces him from one boyfreind to the next, from one home to the next and she does not provide any real stability for him. I have gone through alot in my life for only being 46, and i have made alot of mistakes in parenting. Being a single parent for the past 5 years, it is always a battle between trying to get to work to make enough money to protect and support my child, and still be available for him when his mother gives up her visitation time with him. It has cost thousands of dollars through lawyer fees, but my son is more important than the money. My best advice to young people.. be absolutely certain of the person you are with before starting a family together. You cannot possibly come to truly understand someone until you see all sides of that person, good and bad. Be certain that person has no hidden sides of themselves. My life is a testament of bad choices in partners, and bad parenting, the story is far longer and more disturbing than i would spend time typing here....

Snoo-40408 · 2021-10-01T02:01:52+00:00

Just make it equal who said its a mans job to provide? What are we 1940?

caem123 · 2021-10-02T14:16:05+00:00

I mentioned 'focus on yourself' earlier, with a deeper meaning where as you become a better version of yourself..... you will attract your wife and children to be part of your life.

Being fit, prosperous, with fun and happy friends and work.... all this will make your family want to be part of your life. They will not remember that you were up at 6am working on yourself.

WarAgainstLiers · 2021-09-29T22:29:41+00:00

This is some boomer level thinking. No one cares. I've never cared about any of this, just live to be happy and don't be shitty.

Yo-boi-Pie · 2021-09-30T05:51:48+00:00

Title	Can men ever do “enough?”
Author	True_Butterscotch_46
Upvotes	461
Comments	155
Date	September 29, 2021 5:55 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/py0uhp/can_men_ever_do_enough/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/can-men-ever-do-enough.1073525 https://theredarchive.com/post/1073525

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