Difference between r/MensLib and r/MensRights

TextDependent6779 · 2022-06-24T01:19:58+00:00

i said it before, and I'll reiterate it.

the difference between r/MensRights and r/MensLib is menslib believes they can solve men's problems by solving women's problems.

Men'slib aren't about mens problems. they're about maintaining the feminist narrative and upholding the feminist image by pretending the care about men.

63daddy · 2022-06-24T01:37:32+00:00

Talking about issues through a feminist lens is feminism.

eidohntfinkzoo · 2022-06-24T01:28:26+00:00

Feminists wearing the skin of men.

Those who believe in the patriarchy are not living in reality. If we would live in a patriarchy there wouldn't even be a thing like feminism. Feminists are delusional and power hungry and whoever adopts their talking points is just their minion.

I have to play Overlord again.

DirtyPartyMan · 2022-06-24T01:54:23+00:00

The second I see the word “Patriarchy” I shut down.

Sydnaktik · 2022-06-24T02:04:50+00:00

"the patriarchy" is a very divisive term with so many different interpretations it's pointless to use it unless you're just trying to make men look back for the sake of making men look bad.

Better terminology could be "gender norms", "sexist gender norms", "oppressive gender norms"

Men's issues CANNOT be caused by the "patriarchy" because by some definitions the patriarchy is an oppressive system that explicitly elevates all men as a privileged class over all women.

MensRights does not blame feminism and women for ALL their problems. By and large, MensRights does not blame women as a group for any of their problems. MensRights only blames feminism for the problems it causes men, particularly in the area of legislative and institutional influence. Feminism is not blamed for the problems men face due to capitalism or personal inadequacies.

This is important to note, because there is a subsection of feminists who intentionally attempt to explain ALL of women's problems as being caused by the patriarchy.

You're also treating both feminism and mensrights as monoliths. And neither are, and by a wide margin. Within the men's rights movement there is a growing left vs right divide, while both sides agree that feminism is huge contributor to men's issues, they generally disagree about how to address this.

The feminist movement actually has a very wide array of views, ideologies and factions. But quite universally, they vilify men and will denounce anyone attempting to bring to light the rampant misandry present in the movement.

Feminism is a label. You choose to associate with that label and through this association you effectively lend support and credibility to those prominent institutions promoting heinously misandrist legislative action.

MRA is an acronym that stands for men's rights advocate. You can't attempt to distance yourself from that term as hard as you want. You can't escape the fact that "men's rights advocate" is a descriptor of what someone does. If you advocate for men's rights, you are a men's rights advocate whether you like being called one or not.

In contrast, you can most certainly be an anti-feminist women's rights advocate. Feminism is a label that people and institutions give themselves. You take on the label if you generally agree and support those most prominent people and institutions who adopt that label.

There are absolutely MRAs that promote sexism against women. There's nothing that can be done about it. After all there are lots of air breathers who promote sexism against women. While I may also be an air breather, there's not much I can do about the fact that other air breathers act poorly. You could say that the acronym MRA is a label, but the behavior of those who use that label hasn't really gotten to the point where I think it warrants condemning it altogether especially because it is complicated by the fact that it's also an acronym.

You can say that there's a fair amount of vilification of women on r/mensrights. I will agree with this to some extent. I don't really like it myself, but I think it's fair to allow people to explore the ways in which toxic people behave that are unique to women. Many people have grown up in an environment where they were expected never to question women's behavior and this kind of content helps they have more realistic expectations from women (instead of rosy idealization of the best a woman could be). That said, I feel like most of the time it's just used by misogynists to express a sexist sentiment. But I understand the mods who choose to allow it and only ban explicitly sexist content.

Viesegel · 2022-06-24T03:45:02+00:00

They are trying to cleverly play on words. They say that men's problems are caused by social norms and expectations, which is true for a large extend.

But then the words they use for that set of social norms are 'patriarchy' and 'toxic masculinity', which cleverly contain an implicit blame of men, even though in reality, most of these social norms are enforced by women.

If you try to argue that women need to help men with changes, they will then bounce the blame back to men, because, you see, it's due to the 'patriarchy', and we all know that the patriarchy is made by men.

EricAllonde · 2022-06-24T02:26:40+00:00

while r/MensRights will deny that men/patriarchy have any part in causing THEIR issues

For good reason: the patriarchy doesn't exist in western countries today.

I don't speak feminist, I speak English. In the English language, the meaning of words is as defined in English language dictionaries.

The dictionary definition of "patriarchy" is "a system of society or government in which the father or eldest male is head of the family and descent is reckoned through the male line".

Our present-day society does not resemble that at all: we are a democracy and women comprise at least 53% of voters. Hence patriarchy does not exist today.

You have to ask why feminists have adopted a word that's irrelevant to today's society instead of using a more precise & accurate term, such as "societal expectations based on gender". The answer is that they chose it for propaganda reasons, in order to use their grievances to whip up hatred of men and avoid taking responsibility for women's role in enforcing gender roles.

When feminists are ready to abandon their propaganda word and instead have a discussion based on accurate, precise terminology, I'll listen to what they have to say. Until then their worthless propaganda deserves nothing more than to be ignored.

CriticalConvo · 2022-06-24T03:17:19+00:00

I mentioned the sexist nature of military conscription in the states and ongoing in Ukraine - I said it in a constructive and neutral way - and got banned from mens Lib. That’s the difference.

Punder_man · 2022-06-24T01:55:25+00:00

Firstly, I do not blame feminist / women for ALL of the problems men face.
There are a few in which they most certainly are to blame and a few more in which while not directly at fault they hinder us being able to resolve.

The biggest problem is that I disagree with Patriarchy Theory because I feel that feminists have not met the burden of proof in their claims regarding our society being a patriarchy.
As far as I can see.. all they have done is state that we live in a Patriarchy and are expecting the statement to be accepted as fact.

It also doesn't help that they are inconsistent with their terms / definitions.
For example you will hear a feminist say "The Patriarchy is a system created by MEN to benefit MEN and keep Women oppressed"

But then they will go on to later say "The Patriarchy hurts men too!!" while also pinning the blame for every single issue men face at the feet of the 'Patriarchy" (Or Toxic Masculinity)

False Rape Accusations? PATRIARCHY!!!
Male Homelessness? PATRIARCHY!!!
The Draft? PATRIARCHY!!!
High Male Suicide Rates? PATRIARCHY!! and TOXIC MASCULINITY!!!
The Sentencing Gap in Criminal Courts? PATRIARCHY!!!
etc

The point here is that at a fundamental level they want us to believe that ALL men got together to design a system to benefit men and oppress women..
And then when we point out areas in this system which actively hurt or even systematically oppress men.. they instantly change to "Oh well the Patriarchy hurts men too!!" or "The system is designed to benefit the top 1% of men"
But that is wildly inconsistent.. not only that but if this were the case then why does feminism treat men as a monolith and act as if every man is a member of this elusive, shadowy cabal of the top "1%" when in reality the majority of us are not?

But when you point out the inconsistencies of their dogma you get labeled as 'problematic' if you're lucky and as a bigoted misogynist if you aren't.

Aimless-Nomad · 2022-06-24T02:02:53+00:00

Menslib is a feminist whiteknight simp sub. BS any of us should be a part of that shit.

Fearless-File-3625 · 2022-06-24T02:28:55+00:00

Menslib is a man hating feminist honey trap.

List of menslib misandry.

HeatInternational783 · 2022-06-24T05:55:17+00:00

Nice try saying we don’t hear the other side, they don’t hear us. We’ve tried talking, don’t assume we haven’t participated in YEARS of back and fourth with these type of thinkers.

No-Satisfaction-2320 · 2022-06-24T07:11:34+00:00

and r/MensRights blames feminism and women for all their problems.

Are you one of those people who think feminism = women?

We blame feminism for a lot of our issues, not women.

while r/MensRights will deny that men/patriarchy have any part in causing THEIR issues.

Tbh at this point the patriarchy is justt a buzzword thrown around by feminists to dismiss any male issues, just like toxic masculinity.

Awe_Rux · 2022-06-24T02:26:19+00:00

That sub is for and full of male feminists, misandrists, self-haters, simps, cucks, wokes, soyboys, SJW's, blue/white pillers, subs and any in between.

This sub welcomes any discussion on what's at best interest for men, but not at the cost of women.

lavangam_69 · 2022-06-24T05:34:39+00:00

Remember those characters in a super high budget movie who literally have no use but are still present ? Yeah that's what feminists are in the society.

dpv20 · 2022-06-24T05:39:43+00:00

da fuck are u reading man, here we know men are partially to blame and have almost all the blame if we go back in time but we know that in the current world neo-feminists groups make it almost imposible to change

RatDontPanic · 2022-06-24T17:44:52+00:00

MensLib is a circlejerk of men who obey the feminist hegemony. Just try and point out the way feminism demonizes men or point out how the Duluth Model enables women to abuse men and get away with it, and they'll ban your ass.

This is why I don't post in feminism subs - if you disagree with them about anything at all they will ban your ass.

This subreddit, though, ain't perfect. I mean we got folks here saying "both genders gotta abide by gender roles in order for everything to work as intended naturally."

Obedience to gender roles is anti-thetical to what this subreddit stands for. I sure as fuck don't plan on submitting to any Patriarchy or Matriarchy.

Personally I’m a mixture of both, I think some men’s issues are caused by men, but there are definitely male problems that are caused/upheld by women/feminists. It’s not black or white. You’re free to disagree though that’s just my opinion.

Refreshingly balanced and true.

treeerty · 2022-06-24T01:40:33+00:00

Men’s lib are emasculated

ItzCreeper246 · 2022-06-24T04:02:59+00:00

"mens rights will deny that men/patruarchy have any part in causing their issues" me about to talk about white knights:

and patriarchy isnt even real

Miclash013 · 2022-06-24T08:31:45+00:00

While I believe that MensLib is primarily for the benefit of feminists, I disagree with your conclusion that like feminists, MensRights blame everything on the other sex.

I very rarely even see a post where a person simply shits on women for the reason they weren't born with a dick. If they exist, they're downvoted but not neccesarily banned because we actually appreciate free speech in our space.

But in the feminist-controlled spaces, the posts that simply whine about men's existance gets thousands of upvotes, and a single comment that suggests a different narrative is banned. Hell, MensRights doesn't ban people for participating in the opposite movement. But guess who does?

bluechair01 · 2022-06-24T04:54:14+00:00

and r/MensRights blames feminism and women for all their problems.

Would you kindly fuck off with your bullshit? Don't forget your strawman too

bat__056 · 2022-06-24T05:45:01+00:00

I literally got banned from menslibIndia after i posted the a video regarding some issues with feminism

thnxMrHofmann · 2022-06-24T06:04:38+00:00

Lol no men are also to blame for women having shitty standards and entitled attitudes. We call these men simps and white knights. They're the enablers of feminist women. The ones who put up with their bs cause they think they should and don't grow a pair. Obviously I don't put up with it or I wouldn't type this.

PigTenis · 2022-06-24T07:26:13+00:00

Menslib is a political sub that sometimes gets male-centric. Mensrights is a male-centric sub that sometimes gets political.

As with all political subs, goal is to shift people to their agenda (radical, far from centrism) or eliminate them from community. This one focuses on radicalizing men.

ABeeBox · 2022-06-24T07:50:47+00:00

It also shits on men for being bad without asking "why?" these men are doing it. Some men are just plain psychopaths and sociopaths, but other men do shit because society turned their back on them. I Love the movie 'The Joker' because it paints the picture really well. You keep dismissing the issues of men, and ofcourse some of those men are gonna do anything they can to survive, or, if they bottle up their emotions and end up doing a lot of bad.

Men are the poorest, most dismissed, and ignored demographic. Ofcourse crime amongst men is gonna be much greater

BlockAccount · 2022-06-26T23:06:53+00:00

Used to browse MensLib frequently, noped out when they made it a rule to downplay and censor male genital mutilation. A men's rights sub that fails to acknowledge the biggest double standard in gender politics is fake as fuck. I have no respect for those mods and the ones who agree with them.

ABeeBox · 2022-06-24T07:44:40+00:00

On that sub its like, whatever issue men have, it's men's fault, and women are most affected.

That sub will trick you into thinking it's about men's issues, and for the first half it is, but they always manage to do a U-turn and make that issue about how it effects women.

Seriously bugger off, it's almost as if, if it's an issue for men, but doesn't affect anyone else, we suck it in. If it's an issue for men but does affect others (women), then it's finally an issue that must be discussed.

Anih1list · 2022-06-24T10:33:07+00:00

We live in a society, everybody participates in society, and by doing so everybody upholds society’s norms. The moment we turned it into a blame game, we all lost, because the truth is everybody is to blame but it doesn’t matter as long as we fix the damn society

thinkb4youspeak · 2022-06-24T04:56:50+00:00

I don't blame all women. I blame capitalism and I blame anyone who seeks to gain benefits for their gender at the expense of another gender or group of genders. Yes there are 5 very specific ex's who have actively tried to ruin my life post relationship because they thought I was going to finance their life while they emotionally abused me and some of them also were emotionally abusive to my son.

I definitely do not blame all women at all and I totally support Roe v. Wade as a health care issue and I agree with the 1973 decision that the 1st amendment of the constitution forbids the government from making laws on any theocratic basis.
The constitution protects us from any religious based legislation. If your reason is your god and holy text say it's bad then that's fine, you don't get to participate but you don't get to make laws to force other citizens into your religious compliance.

Forced birth has no place in a modern civilization.

nigerundayooosmokey · 2022-06-24T04:06:08+00:00

wow… and here i thought r/menslib was a more “peaceful” version of r/mensrights. i rmb seeing a post on some woman asking feminists which gender equality subreddit to join and she recommended r/menslib and called it a place where u can actually discuss gender equality” and not bash women and feminism.

well well….

rooiraaf · 2022-06-24T09:19:09+00:00

The comments of MR tends to be more miserable than those in ML. I think in MR people tend to vent more.

It's just an observation.

I am subscribed to both.

McCasper · 2022-06-24T10:50:54+00:00

I think I agree with you. I'd much rather focus on actually dealing with the issues men face rather than who's to blame, though.

eddyboomtron · 2022-06-24T12:34:37+00:00

Oops I forgot to include penis as well. Thank you for reminding me

itscoldupheredude · 2022-06-24T10:03:21+00:00

They seem to talk about actual issues and this sub just likes to bitch about even more irrelevant topics than the feminist issues they so openly despise. Feminist sub - Let’s discuss mens mental health, custody injustice, humanitarian issues, etc This sub - why doesn’t google have a nice cartoon for international mens day? why didn’t she blow me after I paid for her $10 sandwich?

GoelandAnonyme · 2022-06-24T11:42:05+00:00

Menrights is the sub for meeting incels who reject anything feminists do, menslib is for people who see men's advocacy as building ontop of feminism as its next step.

gamerlololdude · 2022-06-24T07:10:01+00:00

Some things for you to reflect on:

In general subreddits tend to have black and white thinking. Subreddits are mini echo chambers. You can tell the essence of a subreddit through some of its posts and then eventually a pattern comes up of people going there to make such posts and restating the things they see to create a path of typical narratives.

To your last point.

In terms of the west, “patriarchy existing” today is referring to the systemic issue leftover from when there was a more obvious patriarchal structure to society. So patriarchy in the historical sense may not exists but it is within the structures of societies. It is kind of like how in Canada gender identity and expression was added to human rights in 2017. Theoretically from that point on there cannot be any gender based discrimination and gender doesn’t matter. In reality there are still relics of the past where gender matters like gendered bathrooms, clothing, gender affirming care gatekeeping, gendered sports, sexism, menstrual products not being available like toilet paper. What happened with patriarchy is yes one could say it doesn’t exist explicitly. But it very much exists implicitly from what happened in the past and the patterns of thinking it created. Similar example could be just because laws accept gay people, doesn’t mean everyone in society automatically does and treats them the same as straight people. There could still be biases.

You are right that there is a movement going on of what we could call toxic feminism or maybe female supremacy. It is like TERFs are not really acting in the true spirit of what feminism was meant to be (a philosophy and movement for gender equity, so building a world where gender doesn’t matter as much as eye colour)

eddyboomtron · 2022-06-24T11:21:35+00:00

As an outside observer, MensLib seems wayyy less spiteful towards women than this subreddit. The former also seems to touch grass and pussy more as well

rocker12341234 · 2022-06-24T05:37:40+00:00

as i feel the name suggests its libreral men... or just a liberal mindset.... not saying any particular political siding is right or wrong and not trying to turn stuff political, but just by that description youve given they seem to only address stuff that through a liberal lense.... e.i. "if youre a straight white man everything in the world is your fault and you deserve to suffer. everyone else tho deserves some help"

Evening_Eagle · 2022-06-24T14:29:51+00:00

Menslib is simply a place to vent in best case, and not examine any cause of your problems. Look at their resources, it sums up to: feminism good, this is not a problem, this is also not a problem, white bad, this is not a problem and list of suicide hotlines. When your subreddit has more rules about not criticizing feminism rather than men, i wonder if that subreddit is really for men.

BCRE8TVE · 2022-06-24T14:34:15+00:00

r/MensLib claims that it is a space to talk about male issues through a feminist lense, but it seems like most of the posts are just talking about the issues faced by lgbt/minorities/poc.

I mean, duh. Under a feminist lens, men face no issues, except when male oppression of women backfires and hurts men. Also men's issues are therefore overwhelmingly LGBTQ/minority/poc issues because men are the oppressors and oppress all those other groups. As a man you're on top of the totem pole of oppression, so you can't be oppressed and have issues unless you're also part of some other group. And then, the issues you face as a man aren't really men's issues, they're issues you face because you're part of this or that oppressed group, and you just so happen to be a man.

Which is great and all but then what’s the point of calling it r/menslib? Isn’t it just r/feminism 2.0?

Yep, it's a great way to gaslight people and tell men to go to that subreddit, instead of any subreddit that actually cares about men, so they can keep control of the narrative, police the tone, and delete and censor anything that goes against what they believe.

It seems the main difference though is r/MensLib blames patriarchy and men for all their problems, and r/MensRights blames feminism and women for all their problems.

Not all problems no, but you are right that mensrights doesn't always do a good job of calling out other men on the shit they do.

So both are very blinded by bias, and refuse to concede on anything even when the other side has a point.

Except one will actually debate and point out how the OP could be wrong, whereas in the other restrictive modding and though police will delete anything that steps out of line with the approved party line. If you don't believe me feel free to go have a peek at r/menslibwatch and see what you find.

Personally I’m a mixture of both, I think some men’s issues are caused by men, but there are definitely male problems that are caused/upheld by women/feminists. It’s not black or white. You’re free to disagree though that’s just my opinion.

I agree with you actually.

But if you were to express that opinion in any feminist subreddit you'd get banned.

Aran82 · 2022-06-24T22:26:42+00:00

I don’t believe in patriarchy or toxic masculinity as it is framed by feminists. They seem to say on the one hand that patriarchy has lumbered men with burdens that make them toxic. This nonsense is supported by weak men in Mens/Lib - on the other hand what feminists don’t admit is what they say are undue burdens on men are actually what they see as privileges and they have a seething envy of and believe they should get without earning - they want to be the CEO without the 80 hour work week. They will mention that women were deprived of the right to work a century ago and neglect to mention that most work undertaken by men was torture by today’s standards - there were no careers.

To be a man and to have survived involves bearing burdens and responsibilities.

MarsRisen · 2022-06-24T23:02:55+00:00

Anything with Feminists in it, is hot garbage

barrathefknworld · 2022-06-25T01:42:08+00:00

Calling that sub r/menslib is like calling a steakhouse “Patchouli’s Vegan Paradise”.

Devisiveone · 2022-06-25T20:43:21+00:00

Men don't cause their issues, a tiny subset of extremely powerful people cause our issues.

Title	Difference between r/MensLib and r/MensRights
Author	heckin__chonker
Upvotes	138
Comments	164
Date	June 24, 2022 12:55 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/vjbvmj/difference_between_rmenslib_and_rmensrights/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/difference-between-rmenslib-and-rmensrights.1120259 https://theredarchive.com/post/1120259

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