Female Privilege

Eryemil · 2012-12-29T12:24:57+00:00

"Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat."

TheyCalledMeMad · 2012-12-29T07:35:17+00:00

"Let me tell you about how hardships suffered by men are actually hardships suffered by women."

Crimson_D82 · 2012-12-29T08:03:48+00:00

I do so enjoy these types of claims because it illustrates just how little feminists think of women. According to the author, in thousands of years of civilization women played absolutely no part in forming societal norms or customs. They were the ultimate objects, unable to affect the world around them, at the mercy of the men who lorded over every facet of their lives to keep them in check.

I wonder if these people realize the gravity of the insult they are paying women of the past with this type of narrative. They completely ignore and trivialize any contribution women gave to society, good or bad, instead alleging that they were completely helpless and unable to mount any kind of resistance to what must have been absolute hell for them. At least, until feminism miraculously came along and suddenly gave women a collective backbone.

DerpaNerb · 2012-12-29T07:57:04+00:00

[permanently deleted]

retskcirt1 · 2012-12-29T10:56:59+00:00

Hysteria about older men with younger women was created by progressive women trying to protect their own reproductive value and egos through shaming and legislating morality.

How many more of those baseless claims are incorrect?

Snowley · 2012-12-29T14:03:48+00:00

So wait a minute... She acknowledges that both men and women suffer from gender roles and sexism. But all of this stems from the "patriarchy". What is the patriarchy? It is the narrative that only women suffer from sexism and that this is a direct result of opression by men, whom do not suffer from sexism. So the fact that men suffer from sexism is born of the "fact" that they don't. I don't think I could tie such a knot of non-logic if my life depended on it. Bravo!

2012-12-29T11:06:36+00:00

most feminists are against the draft.

Really? Most people don't like people being sent off to war? Holy shit, I'm a believer now.

johnmarkley · 2012-12-29T10:04:42+00:00

It's a rhetorical device known as Framing. It's used to paint men as the instigators of their own downfall, and to paint women as insurmountably oppressed, 100% of the time, regardless of context.

It's a highly offensive deflective tactic which invariably ends up belittling men's issues. Although when they suffer from such extreme confirmation bias, it's difficult to really argue with them. As I'm sure most people here know, pointing out the flaws of such a position to a Feminist is pretty much futile. They will just continue to chant the same mantras without using anything independent of their ideology to back it up, much less factual.

It's like when Christians use Bible Quotes in an attempt to prove the Bible's veracity. It's pathetic if you ask me.

Jazzeki · 2012-12-29T11:57:52+00:00

Everything Men’s Rights Activists label as “female privilege” is really patriarchy backfiring against men.

intresting thought... let me try another one to follow up

"Everything feminists label as “male privilege” is really feminism backfiring against women."

yeah that works just as well... maybe they are on to something?

unexpecteditem · 2012-12-29T14:23:41+00:00

Fine. Then we're all against the patriarchy.

ysalimiri · 2012-12-29T16:16:58+00:00

They're victim blaming now?

OuiCrudites · 2012-12-29T10:54:55+00:00

It was feminist activism that introduced the presumption of maternal custody and its feminist activism that's blocking reform to shard patenting.

How many more of those baseless claims are incorrect?

Arcnsparc · 2012-12-29T14:58:39+00:00

I always hit a wall with "Patriarchy." I get people telling me there is "over whelming" evidence through out history of a patriarchy. And while I concede things have been bad for women (not worse for), things have been bad for every one. People tell me patriarchy is to blame for [insert problem]. How do I politely attack the premises of patriarchy?

theskepticalidealist · 2012-12-29T16:16:41+00:00

"feminists dont support any of those" --- How about VAWA? lol how delusional are these people?

unexpecteditem · 2012-12-29T14:27:17+00:00

Consider: Everything Feminists label as “male privilege” is really matriarchy backfiring against wommen.

dermanus · 2012-12-29T14:32:23+00:00

This really tells me that 'patriarchy' has no explanatory power. If it can mean anything, then it is meaningless. Maybe we should stop using that term.

Gender attitudes are the problem in all the cases this person cites. The great thing about a term like 'gender attitudes' is it explains the problem and offers suggestions on how we might fix it. Citing 'patriarchy' does neither of those things.

DavidNatan · 2012-12-29T15:00:14+00:00

All of this is absolutely true, except the part where it says we shouldn't blame women for being dicks, because of a blood-curse our patriarchal forefathers passed onto their sons.

If anything feminists are excusing themselves with patriarchy, which is pretty ironic.

When a man fucks up, it's his fault, and even if he doesn't fuck up he's a potential rapist.

When a woman fucks up, it's society's fault, patriarchy's fault, men's fault. Anything but her fault. You'd think feminists themselves hold the belief that women are helpless, blameless victims of their environment.

YetAnotherCommenter · 2012-12-30T06:46:18+00:00

"The belief that all men are rapists is caused by the misogynistic belief that a woman who is quick to trust a man is asking for it."

No, it is caused by a long-running ascetic/Platonic tradition which sees (specifically male) sexuality as vile, debased, animalistic, subhuman, bestial, violent and predatory. This tradition has deep roots in our civilization (Christianity clearly reinforces it.. Augustine of Hippo bought into it), and in the recent times has been reinforced by some feminists (Dworkin and MacKinnon among them).

"All men are rapists" is a proposition about male sexuality's innate nature. It isn't premised on a view of women.

In general, "women must be protected" isn't premised on "misogyny" (hatred of women as a class). One protects that which one values. The effects are detrimental to women, sure, but that doesn't mean the underpinning attitude is anti-female.

I've noticed that some feminists will alternate between defining "misogyny" as either "misogynistic premises" or "negative impact on women," depending on which works best for their argument. Please: use consistent criterion for "misogyny."

But let's see... if the "patriarchy" so often backfires against men (i.e. has detrimental-to-men consequences), then why isn't this misandry? If either "negative attitude towards women" OR "negative effects on women" constitute misogyny, shouldn't either "negative attitude towards men" OR "negative effects on men" constitute misandry?

And if that is granted, then how is the "patriarchy" (which, as the linked argument shows, 'backfires' against men) not misandric?

Apellosine · 2012-12-29T08:19:45+00:00

Short version = Females have no privilege and men suffer from "patriarchy".

Got to love feminist denial.

DJ_Ango · 2012-12-29T05:46:28+00:00

Everything Men’s Rights Activists label as “female privilege” is really patriarchy backfiring against men.

The gender-specific rule that men shouldn’t hit women is caused by the misogynistic belief that women are fragile.

The belief that men can’t be raped is caused by the belief that men always want sex and the belief that men must always be strong, which are the same gender norms that enable men to sexually harass women.

The belief that all men are rapists is caused by the misogynistic belief that a woman who is quick to trust a man is asking for it.

The belief that statutory rape is worse with an older man and a younger woman than with an older woman and a younger man is caused by the misogynistic belief that society must protect female virginity.

Custody favoring the mother is caused by the misogynistic belief that taking care of the kids is a woman’s job.

The fact that only men can be drafted is caused by the misogynistic belief that women are too weak for combat. Also, most feminists are against the draft.

The belief that the man must pay for the date is caused by the misogynistic belief that women are helpless and need men to do everything for them, and it’s often used as a way to guilt-trip her into having sex.

Feminists don’t support any of those. All of those are caused by patriarchy. Men’s Rights Activists can stop blaming feminists for the problems that patriarchy causes.

texasxcrazy · 2012-12-29T15:06:02+00:00

Female Privilege: Being able to blame men for the inequalities they face and have support for it.

NWOslave · 2012-12-29T15:40:54+00:00

"Patriarchy" is the swiss army knife of words of blame in the modern world. It doesn't matter what the problem is, patriarchy is to blame. It's simply a defection tecnique to keep women as a whole, or individual women from being rightfully blamed for a specific problem.

Partiarchy, male, maleness, men, masculinity, a system of male dominance, etc = the devil.

Woman, female, femaleness, feminine, womanhood, girl, etc = goddess in the flesh.

This is the promoted ideology in the western world that shapes all our laws, social actions, education and societal norms. The devil, (anything to do with man) can never be good or righteous. The goddess, (anything to do with woman) can never be anything but good and righteous.

memymineown · 2012-12-29T05:58:28+00:00

Welp, this is one of the stupider things I have seen.

Aaod · 2012-12-29T07:33:33+00:00

So because you want to fight against the patriarchy should you not believe and fight against these things? This has to be the stupidest thing I have seen all week even at the basic form it is illogical. So in other words the writer fails at basic freaking reasoning and logic skills.

blueoak9 · 2012-12-29T21:06:36+00:00

"Everything... female privilege....is just the patriarchy backfiring on men"

Oh, so that somehow means it's not female privielge? Patriarchy and men are the source of female privilege!

ItalianRobot · 2012-12-29T21:33:27+00:00

While there is some truth behing these (espicially if you replace partriarchy with misogny), but we don't blame feminists for it. The problem with this is that feminists believe that they are fighting for men's rights when thet aren't, Im not condemning them for not fighting for men's rights Im condemning them for claiming to. And she also seems to skip over the fact that these are also caused by misandry.

OuiCrudites · 2012-12-29T10:30:24+00:00

"These things aren't the fault of Feminism, even though many feminists reinforce the laws and attitudes that cause them. It's the fault of something that hasn't existed in the West for at least 75 years, if it ever existed."

2012-12-29T14:30:52+00:00

She needs to check her privilege! !

ExpendableOne · 2012-12-29T15:52:03+00:00

wow, this is hilarious. I mean, not only is she still completely off base in nearly every single one of these issues or misguided in thinking that "just because there is misogyny, it's patriarchy", she actually completely dismisses the reality of misandry and actually goes on to claim that "feminists don't support these things"... BULLSHIT! Not only do they support these things when they are convenient to them but they have also, whether as individuals or as a movement, never actually ever opposed any of these issues either. More often they have actually defended those examples of misandry against the efforts of men's rights advocates. The very act of undermining these issues and dismissing misandry is, in of itself, a blatant example of "feminists" actually making the problem worse and/or showing a pretty obvious bias against men.

2012-12-29T06:04:32+00:00

This is obviously not true. For example the rape hysteria in the USA was directly caused by feminists spreading myths that 1/4 - 1/2 of women will be raped. The expansion of sexual harassment and rape definitions to normal conduct was also directly caused by the actions of feminists (especially Catheirne MacKinnon imo).

Also it would be very hard to argue feminists were not involved in the passage of VAWA.

mayonesa · 2012-12-29T14:53:13+00:00

Feminist propaganda.

2012-12-29T16:21:56+00:00

I am curious if anyone can think of a more 'privileged' class of human being in the history of the world other than white women?

TracyMorganFreeman · 2012-12-29T17:46:47+00:00

Everything MRAs label as "female privilege" is really patriarchy backfiring against men

That doesn't mean it isn't privilege. That's like saying "oh it's not an advantage for me, it's just a disadvantage for you". Those things are the same, and it's a rhetorical misdirection which continues to maintain this notion that women are not privileged in some ways.

All of those are caused by patriarchy

You can't just claim this. You have to demonstrate it, which means that if you're going to infer cause from result, you can't do so without ruling out other possible causes, or you're invoking the affirming the consequent fallacy

Gia_1988 · 2012-12-29T17:16:32+00:00

This is wow until I get to the last paragraph.
Lost me when blame switched hands and offered no solution.
Edit: forgot a word

PinheadXXXXXX · 2012-12-29T17:55:08+00:00

I disagree with these ideas; female privilege is caused by feminists, not by the patriarchy. But in the grand scheme of things, this is really a useless thing to argue about. We should really work to eliminate these problems rather then arguing that some people support mens right's issues for the wrong reasons. We should be content that some feminists support our goals at all.

Victory_Disease · 2012-12-29T18:07:52+00:00

You know if these were the other way around there's no way that anybody would call them "misandrist." It's ridiculous. "Men murdered at 4 times the rate of women, must be because of misogyny!"

Also some of these are actively wrong, "all men are rapists" and "statutory rape is okay when it's woman on boy" are derived from fucked up ideas about male sexuality, not from anything to do with the womenfolk*.

*: okay, excuses for female child rapists are partially determined by ideas about female sexuality (namely, that female pedophiles are somehow magically different from male pedophiles), but it really has nothing to do with ideas about female virginity.

ThrallThroe · 2012-12-29T19:15:38+00:00

Let's see feminists get right on correcting these "symptoms of patriarchy" then.

Bencool · 2012-12-29T19:33:22+00:00

why don't you say misogynistic belief a few more times?

Koalachan · 2012-12-29T20:36:11+00:00

The whole men not hitting women didn't come about until feminism. Until then, it was the social norm for men to hit women when they didn't fulfill their "role." That's even where the phrase "rule of thumb" is from, that you could beat your wife with a stick as long as it was no thicker than your thumb.

Just_Brad · 2012-12-29T22:40:35+00:00

I blame feminists for a few harms in our culture, none of them being on that list.

I blame them for pervasive anti-male bias in schools, beginning with primary school. I blame them for a totally stilted, unjust family court system. I blame them for fostering a culture of hate and fear against men via knowing falsehoods.

I think that's plenty right there. The shrill man-hating lies are bad enough, that those lies were and still are being acted upon by policy makers is goddamn shameful.

2012-12-30T01:30:02+00:00

Paying for dates is a symbolic gesture where men communicate to women that they are capable of providing; i.e. providing for the family and his wife financially. The provider role is an archaic male gender role that women enforce by shaming language such as "cheapskate," or women see the lack of the symbolic gesture as an affront to their sexual self-worth; i.e. not putting her on a pedestal in supplication.

Feminists are against the draft because equality brings responsibility, and feminists know women will be drafted eventually. It's just a defense mechanism, they'd rather have men only drafted and keep their suffrage. Male deaths empower women by destroying male voting power.

giegerwasright · 2012-12-30T07:14:06+00:00

Yeah. Except feminism supports all those thing.

When it's convenient.

2012-12-30T07:29:17+00:00

Stop, please, this post is killing my brain.

iMADEthis2post · 2012-12-31T05:02:56+00:00

You know what guys, let's all of us call ourselves feminists while at the same time hi light all the inequality within the movement towards men.

After all any woman can call herself a feminist regardless of her views.

"Feminism" itself is a broken term. It's like calling someone European, it gives no indication to what language they speak.

The very name "Feminism" is gendered, yet feminism has been fighting against gendered language for decades. Should they not really be calling themselves "Humanist" or "Equitarian" if they value both sexes equally?

iamaom · 2012-12-29T16:41:18+00:00

Just remember that these arguments should not be discredited because you don't like them, but because no proof has been given to support them.

C0CKPUNCHER · 2012-12-29T18:39:34+00:00

Language and how to use it wrongly.

buster2209 · 2012-12-29T18:42:42+00:00

Everything Men's Right Activists label as "female privilege" is really patriarchy backfiring against men

Here first sentence betrays her bigotry. The patriarchy is not a system devised by men at the expense of women, it is system that devised as the best way for humans to survive until the advent of large governments around 1950/60. After that, it was usurped by 'the powers that be' and used to subjugate 99% of the population. Men are harmed as much by the patriarchy as women are. The problem is, Feminism liberates women of the system but not men. Going back to her first sentence, this is the slip all Feminists do; she's basically saying 'men subjugate women, so now females will subjugate men'. Feminists only deal with the part of patriarchy that is harmful to them and leave the parts that are harmful to males alone. To them, when males don't aid Feminists to attack patriarchy, they shame us with the 'losing your privilege' nonsense when it actuality, they want to keep certain parts of patriarchy in place because it benefits them at the expense of men. Feminists are not interested in equality, they just want to control the system for themselves for there own benefit so they can punish men for the perceived crime against them.

Also note, not all females are Feminists, and not all Feminists are females...

spasemarine · 2012-12-29T05:52:24+00:00

CHECKMATE, FEMINAZIS. NOW EXCUSE ME WHILE I GO DOWNPLAY THE SYSTEMATIC CULTURE OF SEXISM WOMEN FACE EVERY DAY BY INSISTING THESE ISSUES TRUMPH EVERYTHING ELSE.

dragonfucker · 2012-12-29T11:03:02+00:00

If anyone on here were actually capable of reasoning about gender, they would realize that the best way to support "men's rights" is to support feminism and the disestablishment of the patriarchy.

EvilPundit · 2012-12-29T16:19:34+00:00

The sooner men stop trying to deny thousands of years of male domination of society, the sooner men's rights will advance. Trying to act like men are and have always been victims of women makes your movement seem like a joke. Down vote me all you like, this post and the comments are fucking ridiculous.

Title	Female Privilege
Author	DJ_Ango
Upvotes	103
Comments	138
Date	December 29, 2012 5:46 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/15m2np/female_privilege/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/female-privilege.1005535 https://theredarchive.com/post/1005535

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