Why is suicide such a problem among men? Let's talk about this.

iainmf · 2015-07-28T09:52:01+00:00

Anti-male rhetoric.

Divorce and custody laws.

Virtually no support for male victims of sexual assault and partner violence.

Limited understanding of how men express themselves and trying to get men to express themselves like women.

People uncomfortable with male vulnerability.

Male spaces have disappeared.

augustfell · 2015-07-28T10:09:59+00:00

men aren't so much human beings as they are "human doings." They are judged by others and themselves based on what they have done to make a living, done to make a difference. If they feel they have failed to reach an adequate level of accomplishment, they feel useless. And men who provide no use have no value in society's eyes, and that's tough to live with.

I'm sure there are other factors involved, as well.

Ekaj_B · 2015-07-28T12:44:04+00:00

I have to admit as a man with depression, I'm not too sure about the whole "men need to talk more". Talking more doesn't fix my fear of approaching women, doesn't help the loneliness that comes with this. The only thing that will is a solution to this issue.

However, when men like me do open up and do turn to the enlightened feminists, we get told to shut up and stop being entitled, that we have it so good.

2unique4suicide · 2015-07-28T11:00:22+00:00

I can only speak from personal experience but men tend to be more rational and less emotional and empathic, this makes it easier to make such a decision. I've thought about it from a young age and continue to. Its a sign of a rational mind, weighing up all the options.

The lack of inquiry into this phenomenon is shocking, over the past 50 years an increase in male suicides across all ages, yet standards of living and treatment have increased.

When politicians are pressed on the male suicide rate, they generally (and callously) attribute the problem to men's disinclination to seek help for mental health issues in times of crisis. Politicians are victim-blaming. They know – or should know – the "mental health issue" is generally reactive depression and all too often the only support available to men is talking, which won't help those denied access to children after family breakdowns, or those denied support as victims of domestic violence, or who who are homeless... The male:female suicide rate differential was 1.7:1 in 1983 and steadily rose over the subsequent 30 years, reaching 3.5:1 in 2013. The prime reason was a steep decline in the number of women committing suicide. Nobody has suggested there was a major improvement in women's mental health over the period. Disadvantaging of males begins at an early age. About two-thirds of secondary school teachers are women and state schools are failing large numbers of boys. One in four boys is labelled as having special educational needs.

Huge amounts of taxpayers' money has been spent over decades 'encouraging' women into traditionally male-dominated professions, notably those relating to STEMM subjects (Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics and Medicine). The government is spending £30m "encouraging" women into engineering alone. Female engineering MSc students at Brunel are entitled to sponsorship of £22,750 denied to their male colleagues. Taxpayers' money is not being spent "encouraging" men into female-dominated professions, although male unemployment has long been higher than female unemployment, and unemployment is known to be a major driver of male suicide, but not female suicide. Two thirds of public sector employees are women, yet the Equality Act 2010 is designed to prioritise females over males in recruitment and promotion terms. It's termed "positive action" in the Act but it's positive discrimination in all but name.

Following divorce, the suicide rate of men is nine times higher than the suicide rate of women. This is sometimes the result of financial devastation, but more often the result of denial of access to children. The link between denying fathers access to children and reactive depression – and therefore suicide – is an obvious one. When in opposition, politicians promise fathers' rights groups they will resolve the problem once in office but renege on the promise once in power.

Its the last resort for the desperate. When life isn't worth the battle, a few seconds of pain and it could all end.

samsc2 · 2015-07-28T13:01:15+00:00

We have everything stacked against us with so very little to help us. When I tried to kill myself I was woken up and then handcuffed, taken out of my house without socks or shoes on, thrown into a ambulance I didn't want, and taken to a mental health place which was basically just a prison. I eventually got to go to the VA hospital instead but that wasn't much better. I was told that because I don't drink or do drugs that there was nothing they could do for me to help my issue with being homeless(I wasn't going to be able to live back at home). I had to have money to get help. I couldn't get money because I needed help. Its just stupid.

warcroft · 2015-07-28T11:55:24+00:00

In Australia 21 fathers commit suicide every week due to custody battles and having their finances, rights and their children stripped away from them due to one sided divorce courts and vindictive ex-wives.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8UcXAXWYXY

EvolvingRedneck · 2015-07-28T17:17:12+00:00

Men are not treated as people, but instead as appliances. You go to a job, you work hard, the boss praises you. But then, word starts floating around about company downsizing. Your stomach sinks as you get called into the office. You're getting laid off. Tough luck. Better find another job soon.

Meanwhile you can't find a job, you get depressed and feel useless. Your girlfriend tries to cheer you up. But . . . You still can't find a job. Your girlfriend gets tired of expending energy on you . . . talks about this to her friends. Their unanimous decision is she should leave you for someone else. They even have someone lined up for her. After all, she is feeling sad and needs to feel better about herself.

Now you are alone. You doubt you can make anyone happy. After all, her and her friends doubted you. If kids were involved, she has them. Other people will see you as damaged and keep their distance. You may get an occasional pat on the back, pity hug, but for the most part the messages you will get is "man up". After all, you have to be independent.

Her? She can be whatever she wants. She's an independent woman? Good for her. She's dependent on other's, either a man or the government, that's ok, she was in a bad position. For her everything is an option. But you. As a man you have little choice. You're either pulling your own weight, or you're a bum.

This is why more men commit suicide. When women need help, they get multiple offers. Men for the most part get a pitiful glance while at the same time get twice the responsibility to fix themselves.

65464asfasd5645456 · 2015-07-28T14:12:26+00:00

Women are "equal" to men, and in our society, will be chosen over them in order to promote "diverse" workplaces. Gender norms which were enforced on women are heinous, controlling, outdated, and wrong.

If a man does not initiate sexual/romantic contact, a gender norm tied to those "outdated and wrong" ones, that person may remain a virgin their entire life. They have to adapt the entirety of their existence to finding a partner, while their "equals" "choose" who they like by having sex in bar bathrooms until they hit their biological clock ~30 then want to "settle down and are done making mistakes." These women just do whatever they want, and then men are supposed to diligently work through their twenties, then cheer for the chance to take out these women who just want their money, after being ignored for a decade and a half. This is a recipe for divorce, and is heavily encouraged by our society.

Men are generally distrusted wherever they go. Women use the apex fallacy to show that "men are in positions of power" while completely ignoring all the men around them who aren't. This is doubly so for dating, where women want a man better than them without a hint of irony. Have their cake and eat it too. Women, who are "equal" complain about "where all the good men went," then mock men around them for acting how feminism told them to act. Women lie to men about what they want, then lie to them and scold them and tell them they are "entitled." Men have no humanity anymore, and can go their entire lives in quiet suffering, only to be told to shut up and listen to that woman who just had sex with twelve different men this month talk about the patriarchy (the patriarchy, if it exists, is bolstered by who these women have sex with...they don't have to have sex with CEOS, they can have sex with the men at their feminist meetings, but they don't...why?)

Men who work hard their entire lives are thrown to the side, mocked, ignored, and left to rot. Women who nap and watch netflix all day get scholarships and tinder dates, eventually marrying some tech nerd who she gives quarterly blowjobs to after year three.

It's because in our society, men are isolated, lonely, ignored, mocked, scorned, distrusted, and yet still expected to fix all the problems in society, initiate romantically, and pretty much do everything. I wonder why they kill themselves when their desires and needs go unfulfilled, they are told by the same people getting those desired filled (sluts) that they are "entitled," and then are expected to still fix problems in the community and help build things (and initiate!!!!).

Men are expected to do more, with less, and be yelled at, ignored, and have all their desires and wants be held behind closed doors unless they are extremely attractive or just fucking take it.

matmannen · 2015-07-28T14:16:40+00:00

I think it's rising because male disposibility has always been coupled with rewards, either material or abstract (like social status). So even though men got fucked over they were rewarded for getting fucked over. Now these rewards are being removed, but not the disposibility aspects. Men are starting to discover that they are being fucked over, and when pointing this out the establishment turns around and says "look at all these rewards men used to have, stop whining".

NOTE: Before a feminist comes and says that the establishment is patriarchy and therefore works for mens benifit I need only point at war. It wasn't women the patriarchy forced into battle. What feminists call the patriarchy is what Marx called the bourgoesie (I think I spelled correctly), it's a collection of powerfull men and women who use their power to subjegate and control people under them in order to perpetuate their own power. A simple example. Nobles 1 and 2 force their local lower class men to fight a battle and settle the issues they can't. While the men are of and fighting both feel horny and go and rape the women now that the men are gone. Both men and women are oppressed by the power structures over them...

EDIT: Fixed some spelling issues...

Joeyjoefro · 2015-07-28T14:14:16+00:00

I would say, that when I was contemplating it, it was due to failing at university.

IMO, life is rather pointless, there is no need to reproduce, no need to marry etc. Yet I am expected to get a degree, work 50 hours a week and for what? To live 80 years in misery with a nice house and car.

Should I decide that having fun, working six months here and there while traveling is what I want to do, people will look down on me, say I haven't grown to my full potential. Ask me stupid questions like "what do you really want to do in life?" "But what about kids and marriage?"

I don't want kids, I don't want to marry, I don't want to be stuck in an office for the next 5 decades just to be seen as normal by society.

andejoh · 2015-07-28T16:52:50+00:00

I did a google search on suicide prevention campaigns targeting men. I went through 3 pages and got only one result that would amount to an actual suicide campaign. There were several that talked about the gender gap in suicide, but only one article talking about a campaign trying to prevent male suicide in particular.

http://commonhealth.wbur.org/2015/03/targeting-male-suicide-massachusetts

One of the more interesting comments on the article is.

"Frank411 • 4 months ago

Sorry to do a second posting, but I just visited the MassMen.org website, put in a Boston zip code and clicked on Support and Assistance.

The first recommendation is for the Boston Rape Crisis Center. Think about that. A depressed man, who lost his job and has been kicked out of the house by his wife, is supposed to call the Rape Crisis Center for help.

Quod erat demonstrandum."

I'm also not sure how effective the prevention programs are. I'm also concerned that the website that uses raunchy humor might actually be causing harm. How do you track the people who use the site?

Il128 · 2015-07-28T18:48:57+00:00

Our usefulness runs out. Rather than be a burden, we die.

mochacola · 2015-07-28T11:00:43+00:00

I don't think of it as a male problem, but rather, lack of same magnitude in the female sphere.

I'm going to give an odd view and say this problem will persist until we have better understanding of male brain, or even just understanding of depression in general.

I can't find the TED Talk I'll be referring to but some scientists were baffled by why evolution did not get rid of such unhealthy state of behavior. What they believe was, depression is valuable to society as a whole, because it draws attention of care, making communities come together to look at issues to solve and prevent similar problems from rising again.

And guess which gender gathers crowds to comfort distress signals?

MRSPArchiver · 2015-07-28T09:43:10+00:00

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MasterZapple · 2015-07-28T18:04:49+00:00

This was a pretty interesting article about suicide.

mng20 · 2015-07-28T19:23:14+00:00

I think a big reason why it's a big problem is the fact that as a man, if you come across hardships you're simply supposed to grit your teeth and bear it until you find a way through it all. While you do need to be strong in those moments, we all get a little weak and look upon someone for help. That is what people will consider to be unmanly. But for women, they're allowed to whine and complain to get what they want, usually from men. Everyone jumps to their aid to protect them from even the smallest of issues. The same can't be said for men. So men just make the decision to end it all because there is little to gain from it all in comparison to women who don't have to put much effort into something and gain a lot more.

TomwaIvory · 2015-07-28T21:28:06+00:00

I think the primary issues are:

Men have a lack of male role models due to parental alienation and a lack of male teachers.
There is only one mainstream method of addressing suicidal thoughts and it is highly emotional and tailored to women. We live in a feminized society that lacks unique approaches to men in education. Look no further than women's prisons, they're generally far more focused on rehabilitation than men's prisons. Of course men give up on themselves everyone else already has.
Men who reach out to others are mocked, especially by women. The most ideal solution is build support for men from men. This of course requires that we have institutionalized support for men throughout the areas where they are most likely to suffer (e.g. Higher Education). Founding Men's Centers that allow men to discreetly go to discuss their issues would help a lot.

Edit: forgot one of my primary points!

Men/Boys are raised with a gynocentric world view, you must please women, you must support women, you must not strike women even in self defense. Men/Boys are never taught that women can be manipulative as much as men can and they are never instructed on healthy relationships and how to socialize with women in ways that don't result in men/boys getting used. We need to teach boys that there's more to life than women and that women don't get to evaluate who you are or what you're worth; it's your own actions and achievements that should make you happy.

peasant_ascending · 2015-07-29T00:11:47+00:00

Well when your beloved grandfather who raised you dies and you have to drop out of a semester of university to deal with the loss, but don't get your fees back or your failing grades erased, then your nagging fiance demands you have to have the wedding the very next year, then the school doesn't let you back in until you pay 5k in fees, but you can't get anymore loans until you go back to school because you have failing grades, then you spiral into depression and alcoholism...yeah that's when thinking about suicide tends to come into play.

But you're strong right? So you linger, trying to find help, but it takes 6 more months to find a psychiatrist who even deals with male depression and suicide and she simply prescribes anti-depressants, which don't seem to work, but hey, you're off the booze...and have to turn to weed instead. You become more suicidal and attempt to kill yourself several times but the police are called and the seriousness of the situation is ignored by the hospital and psychiatrists and there's very little emotional support from your wife and your best friend is in another province and can only lend support over chat. You still can't get back to school, can't find a job, can't get loans, and then the wedding comes and it's stressful as fuck, but it passes, for a time.

Until your new wife is obsessed with her problems and her family and immediately wants to have a child, then becomes belligerent with you when you explain that you're not ready with all the shit you're trying to fix about yourself. Day by day her attitude flippantly switches from loving, sappy, caring wife, to a nagging, self-interested person who belittles you and your sickness while demanding more from you. Until one day she attacks you after a fight that got out of hand and escalated, and, knowing you so well, triggers all that latent depression and suicidal thoughts that immediately drop you back into a pit of worthlessness and you try to get her off you, suffering dozens of deep scratches in the process, and leaving a single mark on her body.

So the police are called, you spend eight hours in the ER with psychologists who want to release you to the cops who then charge you with fucking assault, despite your wife not wanting to press charges. Then you're given a restraining order to not contact her for two months until the court date.

Now you might have a criminal record, you can't talk to your wife, you can't go to school, on top of your depression and anxiety with no one but your religious zealot of a mother to help you. and you're simply told you have to push through it instead of "taking the coward's way out". Yeah, that's why suicide is such a problem among men

Title	Why is suicide such a problem among men? Let's talk about this.
Author	boneyarsebogman
Upvotes	51
Comments	81
Date	July 28, 2015 9:42 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3evpfh/why_is_suicide_such_a_problem_among_men_lets_talk/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/why-is-suicide-such-a-problem-among-men-lets-talk.974517 https://theredarchive.com/post/974517

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