CMV: TBP subscribes to the exact same value system as TRP, but aren't honest about it.

Xemnas81 · 2015-09-20T21:50:25+00:00

Did you just change the title?

Personally it's quotes like this by 'male feminists' which stand out to me:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheBluePill/comments/3l98kp/the_one_where_terpers_forget_no_one_wants_to_have/cv4d3an

As a true manly man it offends me to watch members of my gender wallow in so much self-pity and despair. These weak hands at TRP need to man up and do a little critical self-examination as to why their pathetic attempts at pair bonding fail. But they don't seem capable of introspection.

There's validity to the introspection part, which I think those moving past the anger phase will begin to engage in, but it completely denies the real it consequences of BP conditioning such as Oneitis

http://therationalmale.com/2012/10/22/casualties/

edit for Hyperreal:

My personal belief is that TBP will stem shame omegas and lesser betas, its goal (as with all feminist relationship advice) is to create Better Betas. To this end it will deny any realities of the feminine Matrix but will obviously in part agree with some of the less controversial components:

social Hypergamy as opposed to biological Hypergamy ('we all want the hottest we can', 'lower your standards' etc.)
AF/BB defended as "oh you're just bitter cos women can fuck who they want now and it's not you"
SMV
The Nice Guy premise (since NGs are more Dark Triad than feminists)
Dangers of One-itis (manifest as 'neediness and desperation are unattractive')

etc.

It will flat out deny

Bio-truths e.g. Biological Hypergamy e.g. branch-swinging, AF/BB as dual mating strategy not just female sexual liberation
Just Get It, Medium is the Message, Power talk etc.
Solipsism/post-hoc. Rationalisation ('ratioanlisation hamser')
Feminine Imperative/Gynocentrism/the Misandry Bubble [anathema to Patriarchy theory]
Social conventions of the FI; prime example

i) internalisation of One-itis as goal of self-actualisation for man to prove himself. See RM Casualties linked above

ii) Others being Code of Masculine Honour (see above quote where Better Betas tells RP incels to 'man up' and serve FI)

AWALT
Machiavellian Game in women

may list more at later date

etc.

It will not approve of

Re-appropriation of the Feminine Imperative for men to control the Frame (average BP relationship is built upon female selection of a Beta Bux)
Usage of the 48 Laws of Power (cf. 'emotional abuse')
Dark Triad Game e.g. Dread Game (cf. 'emotional abuse')
LMR (but hey nor do I lol)

etc.

The most crucial difference is the understanding of BP to RP is their definition of Alpha v Beta.

The BP definition of an Alpha is man with the exterior of an Alpha, but the psychological conditioning of the Beta Bux, and ripe in beta comfort traits. This lets him perfectly serve women's sexual strategy and the Feminine Imperative when he is ready (be that in the Party Years, nearing the Wall, post-Wall, only as a beta orbiter/white knight, etc.)

The RP definition of Alpha is a man whose ego has successfully 'unplugged' from the feminine Matrix and indeed all external sources of validation, be that from other things or other people. In the eyes of the FI, a man who has unplugged from Gynocentrism entirely is a misogynist.

DameTwinkleToes · 2015-09-20T22:10:13+00:00

I think you bring up a good point about some of the nasty comments that get made over on TBP. I'm not a big fan of that. But I don't think they are made in the spirit you are attributing to them.

I don't think the average BPer hates or looks down on virgin or incel men. I think they just assume that a large portion of men who go about spewing hatred of sluts and whores are probably men who have very little sexual success.

Also, some people at TBP get angry when they read TRP posts. And people frequently say mean, hurtful things when they're angry (sort of like when a guy gets angry that girls aren't sleeping with him so he calls them sluts and whores). It seems like TRP places a great deal of importance on a man's sexual conquests, so it makes sense to attack RPers on these grounds (sort of like how TRP places a great deal of importance on a woman's chastity, so they attack on these grounds).

For what it's worth, I'm sorry for any comments you have read on TBP that have made you feel bad about yourself. I wish you the best of luck.

VermiciousKnidzz · 2015-09-21T13:09:31+00:00

making fun of strangers on the internet (sigh) is pretty different from abusing women, saying "single mothers are subhuman," etc etc

[deleted] · 2015-09-20T22:19:01+00:00

[permanently deleted]

imhereforthemeta · 2015-09-21T18:33:17+00:00

What BP's got to understand is that when you tell us it's the wrong choice to change your look, personality and life for pussy, you're saying that we should instead simply accept our rank and place in a system where we are objectively inferior. That's not a good thing. TRP in all its flaws feels like a much more welcoming place for a person like me than the rest of the world.

Im pretty sure nobody in TBP is going to criticize going to the gym, improving yourself, learning social graces, and becoming a more successful person;. It's mostly ya know, the abuse/rape apologism and the pure dehumanization of women that we don't like.

If that's equal to "lol internet neckbeards think they deserve pussy feasts", to you, well, that might be something you need to re evaluate.

It's like saying "wow, bob cut off sally's arm, and she TRIPPED him the other day; can you believe what a monster sally is?"

powerkick · 2015-09-21T01:55:35+00:00

RPers make fun of rape victims. That really should be the end of the story.

I'm sick of having these false-ass "well you're worse" arguemtns with RPers. You guys actually hate shit. We're just sick of your bullshit. Personally, I DO agree that most RPers are indeed guys who just don't GET how to society and so run to the arms of the most convenient explanation. Which happens to be what? ALL WOMEN ARE LIKE THAT?

If you're naive enough to belive that, how do you think the world is going to categorize you? A succesful individual who's lead a long and diverse life? No, you're white, Indian, or Asian and feel entitled to sex because you bought the idea that advertising has sold you that the dudes on the ambercrombie walls are banging "your women."

Shut up. That's not real life. Then you go and worship Roosh, a rapist who gives A+ advice such as "don't wipe your ass after you shit." in getting women.

Again, how do you think you guys are perceived after having worshipped THAT guy?

It's clear all you guys want is as much sex as possible with as many people as possible as often as possible. And that's it. That's the one thing that drives you.

When you buy wholesale into RP like this and prove to us that you can't see this shit in an objective manner, yeah you're going to encounter some hate.

I'm not going to tell you to man up, I'm going to tell to you reject the concept of the Divine Right of Dick and settle the fuck down.

MissMaude · 2015-09-20T22:39:51+00:00

Your linked examples have two issues: one is a ghost town, the other is reacting to RPers gloating about all the women pining for their attentions. That's quite different than all the bloopers ganging up to laugh at the virgins.

TBP doesn't hold the same value system as TRP at all. When discussing romantic goals, bloopers tend to focus on relationships and finding one compatible person rather than sleeping with as many, and the most attractive, women as possible. It's a different goal entirely.

goatismycopilot · 2015-09-20T22:18:18+00:00

I guess my big question is if your female friends are really shaming you, why keep them as friends?

wtknight · 2015-09-20T22:20:37+00:00

The Blue Pill isn't a philosophy, it's just a satire sub. If you want conventional relationship advice then try out /r/relationships or /r/relationship_advice, which are subs where the members still respect women and men as equals, unlike /r/TheRedPill.

yo_radical_one · 2015-09-21T09:27:46+00:00

Why should TBP shame a man who is a player?

Provided he isn't lying to women, telling them he wants a relationship when he just wants to fuck, he is giving women what they want.

MissCherryPi · 2015-09-21T14:27:41+00:00

20 years old is really young. I bet a lot of people on TBP are or were virgins at 20. There's nothing wrong with that.

What BP's got to understand is that when you tell us it's the wrong choice to change your look, personality and life for pussy, you're saying that we should instead simply accept our rank and place in a system where we are objectively inferior.

I think you are misunderstanding. Wanting to be the best person you can be to get laid is fine. Lifting weights is one of my favorite hobbies. Go for it. What TBP is criticizing is where the red pill advocates manipulation (LMR, dread game) and misogyny (AWALT).

nope_nic_tesla · 2015-09-21T15:20:19+00:00

This thread shows there's a significant portion of the community on TBP who thinks virgin shaming is wrong:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TheBluePill/comments/36il1o/apparently_we_all_condone_shaming_people_for/?ref=search_posts

So while you'll see virgin shaming posts from time to time, I don't think it's accurate to portray everyone that way. On the other hand, it is part of TRP dogma that part of a man's worth is measured by his sexual prowess, and this is part and parcel of being "alpha".

taiboworks · 2015-09-20T23:43:48+00:00

What they do is reduce the imaginary caricature of a red piller to fat neckbeard fedora and then utterly slam him for supposedly sucking with women and not getting enough pussy to be considered respectable.

why do you think they do this?

The important part here is that it's imaginary - they don't even know the person they're tearing on

do red pillers know all the women they are constantly bashing?

but lack of sexual success is to them such an obvious defect that it's assigned to whoever they dislike so that they can mock him for it.

don't red pillers think lack of sexual success is a defect? don't you?

What this does is confirm the idea that guys that get a lot of pussy are the good guys, the winners, and guys that don't are the losers, the bad guys who should be spat on.

or it could be that a guy that gets even some is probably more appealing than a guy that is sex obsessed, disparaging of women, and can't get anything. if you were just a mild mannered virgin, i don't think anyone would care (except you, since you seem very bothered by it). it's the disparaging of women that invites negative opinions and the irony of being sex obsessed with no success that is an obvious target.

the salient question is why does someone who is inconsiderate of women or at least associates himself with a group who is, expect to be treated with consideration by women or anyone that doesn't also hate women?

MorpheusGodOfDreams · 2015-09-20T22:05:40+00:00

Edit: I disagree with the title: TBP does NOT subscribe to the exact same value system, but a different system entirely based on incorrect information that feels nice, rather than admit to reality.

The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.

TheChemist158 · 2015-09-21T05:52:45+00:00

I actually prefer virgin men. Players are undateable to me. I think that a lot of people on TBP mock them based on their sexual failings because of how important it to the reds.

CheesyFedora · 2015-09-21T06:49:08+00:00

Does this surprise you? TBP is mostly women. AWALT. Your view doesn't need to be changed if it's correct.

Title	CMV: TBP subscribes to the exact same value system as TRP, but aren't honest about it.
Author	Sickbaker
Upvotes	33
Comments	126
Date	September 20, 2015 9:40 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3lq3xv/cmv_tbp_subscribes_to_the_exact_same_value_system/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-tbp-subscribes-to-the-exact-same-value-system.279485 https://theredarchive.com/post/279485

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