Housework discussion

angels-fan · 2019-11-13T18:37:31+00:00

[removed]

flamingoinghome · 2019-11-13T18:26:48+00:00

Couple things:

That graph doesn't mean much, because it doesn't control for who these people are or aren't living with, just marital status. A single man who lives with his mom or girlfriend would still be a "single man."

Also, relationships need compromise. If you don't mind a mess, and your spouse likes things pin-neat, the obvious solution is for them to relax about the mail piling up, and you to grit your teeth and put the dishes away. This seldom happens, though.

Orange_Paisley · 2019-11-13T19:18:20+00:00

It's not just knick-knacks and ducks. Let's say you have 3 kids under 5. You're not just picking up after yourself - you are following 3 kids around cleaning up after them too, plus keeping the place kid-safe (tiny objects put away out of reach, etc). Add full time jobs, laundry, cooking, etc.

goatismycopilot · 2019-11-13T19:26:32+00:00

Houses are also much bigger now which is semi ridiculous. I grew up in a 900 square foot house, the first house I bought was around 900-11 square feet and actually if it had a second bathroom I would have been okay with that. The house I own now at 2000 square feet feels too big for one person.

I know a ton of people with huge houses, unless you have a herd of children you do not need all that space which also has to be cleaned and maintained. I know PPD people might find this hard to believe but everybody does not have a maid and an airplane and a summer home.

Smoogs is being super duper condescending as usual yacking about decorative ducks and knick knacks.

Barneysparky · 2019-11-13T18:27:14+00:00

My nick nacts need cleaning maybe monthly and I enjoy taking an hour to do it. Dishes, counters, laundry, groceries are daily tasks that take up a couple of hours a day even for just a couple.

Add kids and needed housework is easily 4 hours a day. You may not care if you life in an untidy atmosphere but children and all people have lower rates of mental illness, and higher rates of success in life when they grow up in a tidy home.

Men often don't care about a sewing kit, but they do want it there when they lose a button. There are men who don't care if their shirt has a button missing, they are overlooked men.

Xxoxo6969 · 2019-11-13T19:47:09+00:00

Look inside single men's apartments and you'll see disgusting shitholes, but don't let the thick layer of dust everywhere but the video game console controller, fridge door and perhaps the toilet flush knob throw you off...

But hey if you like those standards, enjoy the dust, soap scum, mold/ mildew, old food bits on your utensils and 10 year old fridge odor.

i_have_a_semicolon · 2019-11-13T19:33:01+00:00

Men should just stop wanting women who dont have any mental issues. If you want to date a woman who has no standards for cleaning just date a woman with ADHD.

strangelovesglasses · 2019-11-13T18:59:11+00:00

they’re not high, men’s standards are actually really high, they just don’t want to clean. single men are actually really clean ime, but they get messy when there’s a woman around like a sister, wife or mom. my brother got divorced, i went to his place it was really clean and it was clean for months, then he got a girlfriend who moved in and it started to get messy and he bitched about how lazy she was she was. this happens to a lot of women. i’ve had colleagues and friends who when there mom moves in or parents or whatever, they get really messy too and this happens with offices too, it’s a really interesting thing to see. at work my female coworker and i were blamed for not keeping our areas clean, but the other 7 men working there weren’t even talked to, it was really funny.

when you have kids, men take pride in doing basic mom tasks that a moms expected to do and you have to strong arm them into doing these activities and this also spills onto doing chores too. i take my 6 year old son to his football practice and my 4 year old year daughter to her ballet and all of that other shit you do with kids and every time i see a fucking dad he’s acting like father of the year and he’s doing this huge favor. if a woman refused to do any of this, she’d be seen as the devil and a bad parent. men cooking dinner they think they’re chef ramsay it’s kinda cute tbh but annoying. i just have maid because there’s way in hell i’d do all of these chores.

Sad_Oil · 2019-11-13T18:28:32+00:00

I know plenty of older men bachelors (divorced, widowed or never married) who are quite neat and orderly. This especially applies to men who have military service. Most men hate clutter and are more likely to adopt a minimalist lifestyle.

The same is with communication styles. Every therapist will act like the female style of communication is the "right" one and try to get the man to communicate "like a woman."

sublimemongrel · 2019-11-13T19:07:54+00:00

I can’t recall ever seeing people say it’s oppressive per se, it’s usually provided to rebut some sort of claim that paints men as doing so much more than women work-wise or contributing more or whatever.

As to “standards of cleanliness” I think that is hard to quantify. I think on the one hand it’s valid to point out that generally the stereotype is that women’s standards are higher. Oh the other hand I don’t think it’s fair to say the gap between the time men and women spend cleaning is totally due to women having unreasonably high cleaning standards alone - we don’t have any data on that and we know women are more likely to take on more of the domestic duties, including cleaning, to begin with.

Then you have couples like me and my husband who don’t fit that stereotype at all - he has higher standards and he cleans more too (or at least he did, we now have a house cleaner since the baby came to do the bulk of non daily cleaning who comes every other week).

I think it’s hard to say really

87AudreyHorne · 2019-11-13T19:18:39+00:00

I'm really lazy and I dont like to clean. I prefer not give a fuck people who wont bother me about cleaning over neatfreaks with expectations. My logic is do it when you want, expect nothing

SeasonedRP · 2019-11-13T19:42:25+00:00

Cleaning ladies aren't all that expensive. I don't know why working couples wouldn't use one if there is an issue over one partner sufficiently contributing to completing the housework.

decoy88 · 2019-11-13T19:59:23+00:00

> Single women also spend significantly more time cleaning than single men.

Single men who Get Laid? I don't think so. I keep my shit tight.

Willow-girl · 2019-11-13T18:27:32+00:00

I think everyone already knows that the vast majority of men, left to their own devices, are perfectly happy to wallow in filth. LOL

Barneysparky · 2019-11-13T18:27:38+00:00

What makes the female standard inherently the correct one that men need to live up to in this discussion?

Because they bitch at us and we cave so the bitching stops

Meanwhile those same women are driving on bald tires and cooked brake pads causing accidents

wtknight · 2019-11-13T18:25:35+00:00

One could argue that women instinctively know the standard of cleanliness necessary to protect their children from pathogens, although there are debates about whether women are making their houses “too clean” and therefore creating issues such as peanut allergies in children.

2019-11-13T23:27:48+00:00

Female cleanliness standards are higher because there's more risks of infections and sickness both in childbirth and with young children. Biology also doesn't really pay attention to what the modern world looks like.

Men are generally only thinking about themselves when it comes to cleanliness standards. We have less to worry about overall and can therefore be fine with living in lower standards than women.

Women are essentially doing what they always do: Getting mad at men for not doing things that men don't otherwise need.

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Mulkvistee · 2019-11-13T19:05:14+00:00

I'm unashamed to admit my husband is generally more fastidiously clean than me. Except in the kitchen, which I very much care about. Can't deal with sticky or gross countertops, floors, and appliances, so I clean them as needed. For some reason I don't give as many fucks about bathroom countertops. He thought he was funny pointing out how much neater his side is and it was all fun and games until I tapped a bronzer brush over his sink. I think he actually gets off when he shows me how much of my hair was in the shower drain, but when I offer to chop my hair suddenly it's nbd. The cleaner spouse is destined to be the more annoying one on the topic and needs you to be aware of every speck they handle lol.

superlurkage · 2019-11-13T19:49:04+00:00

Motel 6 or Ritz-Carlton, which would you rather stay in?

pngmafia97 · 2019-11-13T19:57:38+00:00

The difference between married men/women’s housework hours is roughly equivalent to the woman’s workday.

wekacuck · 2019-11-13T20:39:36+00:00

What's included in "basic housework"?

My hunch is it probably includes cooking and home cooking has fallen off significantly since the '70s.

Beyond that you'd want to break the groups down between parents and childfree.

Spurius85 · 2019-11-13T21:33:44+00:00

Yep, Minimalist lifestyle keeps things tidy. Living in a smaller space means keeping things perfectly clean takes next to no time at all.

It's stupid that the same women that demand multistory houses, including a basement, for themselves and maybe one kid gets pissed when it's not as clean as it should be with both people working. It's a full time job to keep those types of houses clean.

Talk about first world problems. Buy a small ranch style house or a condo and watch your lives transform.

2fair2divine · 2019-11-14T02:17:30+00:00

if you think cleaning is sexist, just stop cleaning and learn to live with the mess. a lot of things women complain about are self imposed.

Zippo-Cat · 2019-11-14T07:00:21+00:00

What makes the female standard inherently the correct one that men need to live up to in this discussion?

Because in most relationships women are in charge. Because they're the ones with far less to lose if they walk away.

OfSpock · 2019-11-14T07:06:03+00:00

Last time cleaning came up, I was persuaded to burn my vacuum cleaner in a bid to end male oppression. Please nominate this thread's doomed appliance of your choice.

pngmafia97 · 2019-11-13T18:33:43+00:00

There could be another explanation: tech and the growth of suburbia.

Tech: the pervasiveness of dishwashers, fancy washers/dryers, rumba, Dyson, microwave ovens, prepared foods that render 1976's housework more efficient (requiring less time)

Suburbia: more single-family homes with large yard, where the guy spends more time doing stuff like mowing the lawn, taking care of the lawn, taking care of the grounds, small maintenances, small DIY projects

Title	Housework discussion
Author	Mr_Smoogs
Upvotes	3
Comments	134
Date	November 13, 2019 6:18 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/dvvrnp/housework_discussion/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/housework-discussion.295109 https://theredarchive.com/post/295109

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