Redpill is associated with the right wing while bluepill with the left, but when it comes to the sexual marketplace it is the complete opposite

Randommorningkiller · 2017-01-21T06:56:51+00:00

RP - Your product is shit, learn what the consumers want.

BP - Your product is fine, you just need to wait for the right consumer.

seeing_red_ · 2017-01-21T06:35:14+00:00

I disagree for the most part

Those bitter redpillers don't want to work at it so they want me to help pave their way, they don't want to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps and so on.

This isn't redpill at all. Getting your shit together is red pill as fuck. Moving up in the world and becoming alpha is red pill as fuck. Knowing that the world owes you nothing is red pill as fuck.

You are only correct in that we are, perhaps, more cynical than BPers.

That or they are perceived as a radical uprising type of threat to the established way of doing things because they are trying to eat away at the framework of the sexual revolution that allowed them so much self actualization.

TRP wants nothing to do with activism or men's rights. Absolutely zero interest in fixing any of the world's problems. We're way too narcissistic and self-centered to give a fuck. Social outreach begins and ends within the red pill community and that's it.

redpillers are practically Marxist.

I disagree fully. I would argue that TRP is much closer to capitalism. It's every man for himself, it's competition, it's independence.

utopian and idealistic thinking

No, TRP is amoral and pragmatic.

Like Marxists with the actual economy, they view the modern sexual marketplace as an alienating force where they have no power.

No we don't.

Creative ideas but I think you're running with too many false premises here

exit_sandman · 2017-01-21T07:50:36+00:00

I find that when it comes to our society and sex, redpillers are practically Marxist.

I sincerely hope that this is just a brainfart of yours and you aren't really serious, because it's pretty far off.

You see, the problem with Marxism isn't that Marx' observations of the state of the world (at his time and to some extent even of our time) were wrong - the problem was his conclusions about how to solve that problem. And the problem of the world was that far too many people conflated the two - i.e. they thought that just because his observations were correct, his conclusions must be as well, and acted accordingly.

But when it comes to conclusions, your comparison goes off the deep end.

Women as the equivalent of the capitalist class doesn't make sense because while the lines between classes are fluid, while the lines between genders aren't. You can't really turn women into men and men into women, you certainly can't turn them back and forth, and you really really really can't dissolve women as a gender alltogether. Also: Marxism aimed for a classless society; RP doesn't aim for a genderless society. But guess who is more likely to try to do away with the concept of gender...?
Marxism aims for a society where actual differences between people are leveled; i.e. where it doesn't matter what you're good at as long as you are at something and that when everybody pitches in, everything will work out in the end ("from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs") - i.e. it doesn't matter whether you're an reknowned artist or a nurse, doing your part is what matters. Again redpill thinking is the polar opposite of this, because redpillers are all too aware of the fact that the laws of supply and demand aren't disabled by wishful thinking - that being nice, shy and quiet (traits that are common and/or in low demand) isn't even remotely as good as being handsome, muscular and professionally successful (traits that are uncommon but sought after). Also, redpillers don't aim for a sexual utopia where there's an abundance of sex for everyone regardless of attractiveness is the norm, but for climbing to the top themselves. And again here it's more bluepillers who are the marxists insofar as they say that (a) it shouldn't matter whether you're nice or handsome, fat or athletic, a slut or a virgin, man or woman, everybody should have an equal shot at happiness and sex (and the really deranged ones actually believe that physical attractiveness and personal agreeability are equally important on the SMP, and that men and women have the same chances), and (b) also aim for a SMP where all this doesn't matter (and again the really deranged ones actually believe that this is already achieved, demonstrated by all the posts by blues who ostensibly are exclusively surrounded by people from all SMV's and genders who are all equally successful at getting laid).

cxj · 2017-01-21T05:56:42+00:00

Great post, interesting perspective. I agree with the basic idea but think the "conservative women protecting the status quo" is less common of TBP who post here and seem occasionally sympathetic to incels and some MRA issues. I think the most common "it benefits me so it's just" attitude is more common among TBP men who lay pipe, and worst of all among purple pill women and even some RPW comments.

KV-n · 2017-01-21T06:10:32+00:00

Let me continue your comparison of the smp to the real market. Women are also free to make profit for themselves (fuck whomever they want) but when it comes to their losses (bastard children where the the dad doesnt pay) its all of who have to bail her. Like with the tbtf banks.

PostModernismKills · 2017-01-21T07:26:43+00:00

Charming analysis but you're not really using the terms in the right way? I mean alienating force means that they lose the ability to differentiate themselves from their labor. I don't think the problem here for pill people is that men are alienated from their sexual labor and cannot differentiate their self. In fact, not doing 'sexual labor' seems to be their big problem.

Like yeah, I get the joke but I don't even know if you meant it to be a joke. 'Nozickspeaks' throws me off.

DashneDK2 · 2017-01-21T07:55:16+00:00

RP ideology is rightwing nihilists. Perhaps libertarians. BP are all over the place. Sadly the subreddit lacks good old-time hairy Marxists-Feminists. The whole The-Personal-Is-Political gang. MGTOW seem to take some of this ideology, but in general the whole bloody shebang is a mess.

prostate-apostate · 2017-01-21T10:20:02+00:00

i agree op .

brianharveyofeast17 · 2017-01-21T11:30:01+00:00

Your analysis is flawed because it assumes that both sides see sex as a "marketplace" to begin with.

I would actually say that this is one of the fundemental red pill premises: That sexual relations can definitely be broken down and understood in terms of a strict cost/benefit "value" scale= SMP, RMP, 1s and 10s etc.

I think the blue pillers who argue here are somewhat open to that idea, kind of playing along for the sake of debate, but I don't think its a premise that is universally accepted.

The idea of sex as a even being considered as a commodity is something that many feminists are keen to reject.

The commodity model assumes that when a woman has sex, she loses something of value. If she engages in too much sex, she will be left with nothing of value. It further assumes that sex earlier in her history is more valuable than sex later…. But a musician’s first halting notes at age thirteen in the basement are not something of particular value. Only an obsessive completist would want a recording of a young musician’s practice before she knew what she was doing… She gets better by learning, by playing a lot, by playing with different people that are better than she is. She reaches the height of her powers in the prime of her life, as an experienced musician, confident in her style and conversant in her material. Her experience and proven talent are precisely why she is valued.

Because it centers on collaboration, a performance model better fits the conventional feminist wisdom that consent is not the absence of “no,” but affirmative participation. Who picks up a guitar and jams with a bassist who just stands there? Who dances with a partner who is just standing and staring? In the absence of affirmative participation, there is no collaboration.

Like the commodity model the performance model implies a negotiation, but not an unequal or adversarial one… Musicians have to choose, explicitly or implicitly, what they are going to play: genre, song, key and interpretation. The palette available to them is their entire skill set… Two musicians steeped in delta blues will produce very different music from one musician with a love for soul and funk and another with roots in hip-hop or 80s hardcore. This process involves communication of likes and dislikes and preferences, not a series of proposals that meet with acceptance or rejection.

Performance model is one that normalizes the intimate and interactive nature of sex. The commodity model easily divides sex into good and bad, based on the relative gains from the transaction, mapping closely to conservative Christian sexual mores. Under a performance model, the sexual interaction should be creative, positive and respectful even in the most casual of circumstances.

AndyJays · 2017-01-21T13:01:41+00:00

I think incels are spilling over too much. The Red Pill preaches lifting, outcompeting other men, and only giving a shit about yourself and your needs/desires. Trpers idealize harems. That's the end goal. That's the opposite of typical leftist entitlement. Rather, it's pure capitalism.

Bloopers are leftists through and through. They do not respect the concept of personal property, whether in the sexual marketplace or society.

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EchoZeroEleven · 2017-01-21T07:04:12+00:00

I'm enjoying this perspective of yours of both communities/subs.

Question:

Do you believe that the differing ideological and sexual values of the TBP and TRP (within their own communities) causes them cognitive dissonance? Perhaps hypocrisy?

Or is the internal divide between politics and sexual matters just normal?

FairlyNaive · 2017-01-21T09:26:47+00:00

I had a very similar obsevations. There will be objections in the line of "but rp is aout self improvement", which would be half-true because there are two big camps inside rp both here and on trp itself, with the direct opposite perspectives of the subject, and I dont feel like we need to "no true Scottsman" or deny the existance of this subgroup. On the flip side I would guess that the % of blues who are consistent with their almost homogenous far right view of the smp in the economic sphere would be way lower than the presumed roughly 50% on the red side.

Btw which side do you yourself lean on both issues?

mcmur · 2017-01-21T19:40:57+00:00

Hmmmm very interesting. Maybe it's worth noting that I am generally politically left, but completely anti-blue pill and anti-feminist. Consistency maybe?

thenoorys · 2017-01-21T20:00:48+00:00

This is amazingly accurate goddamn

Entropy-7 · 2017-01-21T20:02:22+00:00

RP tends towards philosophical materialism, which is about the only thing it has in common with Marxists.

prodigy2throw · 2017-01-25T05:26:05+00:00

Not true. TRP acknowledges the free market that is the sexual marketplace and is working to use it to profit (get laid).

Wolfsouls · 2017-01-21T18:06:21+00:00

Regulating the sexual market place would violate bodily autonomy. Regulating the economic market does not.

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