The "We are a team" gaslight

HazyMemory7 · 2023-01-30T14:05:22+00:00

Changed to CMV because discussion posts must be neutral.

Honestly reading this post I'm not quite sure what you're trying to express.

EulenWatcher · 2023-01-30T14:58:51+00:00

I think discussing issues or disbalance in your relationships fits nicely into “we’re a team” approach. As a team we value each other’s happiness, make it work together for both of us and have common goals and plans we work on together.

My husband and I share this approach. We make plans together, we both have the same “weight” in the decision making that affects both of us (we also have areas we both rely on each other’s expertise), we generally try to share the load evenly so we both would have enough free time.

Safinated · 2023-01-30T15:13:43+00:00

It’s not a gaslight. Some people are too lazy to constantly police, score, bean count, negotiate, fight, debate, and argue. I am one of them, and I’m sure there are many others. We just don’t find that appealing in a relationship and a good use of our time and effort

chalkandapples · 2023-01-30T17:49:28+00:00

You either have a very warped sense of what family and team means, or someone has imposed that on you.

You can 100% call out your family or team member, you can complain about them. Bad behavior should be addressed and acknowledged, and even if the behavior isn't actually bad, it can still be questioned. It's common sense that work isn't my family because they're no way they're going to deal with a fraction of what my family would from me.

But you should be a team with your partner. Being on a team means we are generally working towards the same goals. A lot of people mess this up from the start by being very selfish and disregarding what your partner's goals are and just focusing on your own. But being on the same team doesn't mean no one can call each other out. We expect people on our team to pull their weight in every other situation.

TotalTravesty · 2023-01-30T13:36:27+00:00

A: What the hell are you talking about?

B: I’m just here to point out that things you disagree with isn’t “gaslighting.” Things that make you feel bad isn’t “gaslighting.” Other people’s experiences isn’t “gaslighting.” We’re here for the discussion. If you have something to say, let’s use fewer buzzwords that we don’t know the meaning of and more real words that we do.

Barneysparky · 2023-01-30T13:30:35+00:00

If your partner does not act like a partner then break up.

What do you gain again from playing games?

Soloandthewookiee · 2023-01-30T16:08:30+00:00

We usually get the idea that our money is her money, but her labor is her labor, and our chores stay our chores, and being critical of it is wrong according to a "moral" they made up for when it benefits them or an hypothetical stranger woman the most.

You're comparing the results of labor with the labor itself. "Our money is our money" just like "our clean house is our clean house" regardless of who did most of the cleaning; you're not restricted to the rooms or dishes that you personally cleaned.

It's gaslight because it's switching the blame onto you.

That's not what is happening and also that's not what gaslighting is.

It is an attempt to shame you for trying to assert your boundaries.

What boundary are you trying to assert?

rosesonthefloor · 2023-01-30T16:46:26+00:00

Healthy couples who do function as teams are able to renegotiate boundaries and compromise and shift as life and their relationship evolves.

If your partner isn’t willing to compromise or shift things, then them saying “we are a team” as a way to shut that down isn’t the issue, their unwillingness to compromise is.

My partner and I are a team. Which is exactly why I am willing to pick up the slack (as I do) when he works late/is tired or is sick, or he’s willing to pick up the slack (as he does) when I’m sick or tired also.

If your partner can’t handle you asserting boundaries (provided it’s done in a healthy way) then… they’re not a good partner.

But that has nothing to do with “we are a team”, not really. Watch what they do, not what they say.

fakingandnotmakingit · 2023-01-30T16:57:24+00:00

Boundaries are a good thing

The idea of being a team is that your relationship shouldn't be adversarial. But also of someone in that team stops contributing or doesn't contribute enough then that's a time to evaluate and see if that partnership is no longer working

So for instance in a group project where one person does all the work, the other person stopped being a team player, and therefore shouldn't get the grade.

In relationships if for example one person works a paid job 40 hours and the other person works a paid job for 40 hours then it makes sense for both people to then spend an equal amount of time doing unpaid work. If one person slacks off then they aren't being a team player and the other person can set boundaries and communicate that to their partner. And then leave if that partner continues to not be a team player

In a scenario where one person works a paid job at 40 hours and another works a paid job of 20 hours, it would then make sense for the partner working 20, to pick up most of the chores at home.

It's about communicating and ensuring everyone is on the same page.

_sikandar · 2023-01-30T16:02:25+00:00

>You can find the same phenomenon at the work place but reversed. "We are a family" is typically the kind of mentality your boss tries to push onto you, because to them you're supposed to take all the orders and never question them, you should be for ever motivated to bust your ass for your "family".

Atomization levels off the charts, imagine getting this backwards

toasterchild · 2023-01-30T17:25:19+00:00

Some people can operate as a team and some can't, recognizing that you can't and being honest about that is a positive. Either you put in the work to figure out how to do it, find another option that works, or break up.

Being a team means fighting the problems, not you partner. If you just say it but still fight your partner like they are the enemy you're not doing it right to begin with.

relish5k · 2023-01-30T14:14:30+00:00

also treating your partner like a team member is an absolute mistake that leads to being considered inferior.

???

Being a team means that ultimately, you have the same goals and objectives. If you are on a football team with someone, you might disagree but ultimately you all want to win. Being a team with your spouse means you want the same big picture things, and should work together to achieve them, rather than in conflict with eachother. What those goals are may differ from couple to couple, but things like financial solvency, home ownership, happy healthy children, a functionally tidy house, and marital harmony are areas where couples work together to make sure their goals are met. When you are on a time neither one of you can "win" or "lose" an argument, because you are on the same side.

Is that understanding of "we are a team" gaslighting?

MiddleZealousideal89 · 2023-01-30T18:45:10+00:00

Not only it is used to blame flip, but also treating your partner like a team member is an absolute mistake that leads to being considered inferior.

I treat my husband and myself as members of team ''us''. And we both do our best to make sure we are doing well - he's currently the only one working, so I'm taking care of most of the household chores. When I get back to work, we'll figure out how to distribute chores. But ultimately, we don't try to dick the other person over or do something just for ourselves without the input of the other person. I'd feel inferior if my husband acted like the king of the castle and treated me like his minion, instead of treating me like his equal who gets as much of a say as him in what goes around here.

Or you might get this reproach directly from your partner after you tried to discuss unbalance in the load of work you get. This isn't gender restricted.

It's gaslight because it's switching the blame onto you. Because you considered a single second that your relationship is antagonistic and that the other is here to siphon as much from you as possible. It is an attempt to shame you for trying to assert your boundaries.

If someone starts trying to play the victim and refuses to even consider things from your perspective when you bring up an issue with how you're being treated/feeling in the relationship, that's an issue. If it's happened once, it can possibly be worked through, especially if you're a relatively new couple. If it's a frequent and consistent behavior, I'd suggest leaving because that person clearly doesn't view you as a part of team ''us'', they're using you to get what's best for team ''them''.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to question what your partner is doing, especially if it's something that's causing you anxiety or some other harm. But talking through your concerns is part of ''we're a team'', at least for me. And what other advice could I give some couple I've never met and know nothing about other than the very generalized ''try working out a solution together''?

Acaciduh · 2023-01-30T14:12:49+00:00

A healthy relationship is a partnership and usually runs as a unit hence why we typically refer to your insular family as a family unit. That can take on many flavors whether a more traditional partnership or something completely different that works within your family unit. Being a team or a partnership also doesn’t mean it’s always a straight 50/50 split. Sometimes one will take a point of lead on certain things and someone else on others.

I’m having trouble on what your trying to convey here? Being critical and being in a team is not mutually exclusive. What exactly is your issue?

DebateRoyal4525 · 2023-01-30T14:37:14+00:00

I think this could have been worded better, but I get the point.

A team can’t really have two leaders. Any “equal relationship” I’ve seen has the woman assume leadership during disagreements.

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Peacesquad · 2023-01-30T16:04:04+00:00

I think it’s interesting most women want a superior but call him a “partner” when he commits to her. That’s a huge insult in my eyes lmao

mugdul · 2023-01-30T18:28:04+00:00

Geez, this whole "team mentality" is just a way for people to avoid taking responsibility and gaslight you. They act like having a discussion about the balance in a relationship is a character flaw and that your boundaries don't matter. And don't even get me started on the workplace - where your boss wants you to act like a mindless drone and not question anything, all in the name of being part of the "family". Puh-lease.

It's ridiculous how this "we are a team" BS is blindly accepted as the ideal relationship goal, without anyone questioning the consequences. Treating your partner like a team member just leads to being seen as inferior and having no agency in the relationship. TRP's "Don't Defend, Excuse, Explain, Rationalize" is a reminder to not fall into this trap. Relationships shouldn't be a competition or a job, but a partnership where both parties respect each other's boundaries.

MistyMaisel · 2023-01-30T19:19:39+00:00

O_O It just sounds to me like you think being a team crumbles the moment there is a problem or character flaw. But that's not how teams work. Watch any movie about a team. The whole point of most of them is that it is possible to come together despite struggles and character flaws so long as both people want to.

The problem with a lot of this is that when one person is upset (valid or not), they forget they're on a team with a person they love. So they go to them with aggression and antagonism. They make lots of "you did x" type statements. This isn't team talk. This isn't how love works.

This doesn't mean never addressing imbalances, or problems or such. It means learning how to do that with team centric language. A great example being that therapists will teach couples that instead of saying, "You did x thing and I hate that" or "you did x thing and it's not fair and we have to from now on y", you say things like, "The story I'm telling myself when x thing happens is y and this makes me feel z ways". The whole point of this being not to say what reality is or what the other person is doing, but to focus on the scenario, the problems, and what you're making up in your brain about it.

When discussing division of labor, they'll recommend starting from a place of gratitude for your partner. "Hey babe, I really appreciate how you always do x and y. I love that I never even have to think of z anymore because of you. I've been struggling with x part of life and wondered if you would be able to handle that or what you think we should do about this".

And they'll also recommend being way more direct when you're having a bad day, a day you're struggling, and need that peace, mercy, and someone to just step up and shoulder the burden. And they'll recommend not holding people to "but we've always done it this way" type thinking.

Finally, and again, this is contained in all of the above, they really really recommend against seeing stuff in your relationship as an argument, a debate, or something you have to persuade the other of. It's not. It's a discussion where it is you guys verses a problem and people are being open and clear about their feelings and what they are thinking and doing their best to come from a place of love, a desire for the good of the other, and gratitude for this other human in their life".

But all of this to say, no, this we're a team thinking isn't bullshit. It's what dreams are made of. The only way it fails is when the team stops behaving as a team and people act like individuals.

Flightlessbirbz · 2023-01-31T04:18:41+00:00

You unavoidably are a team though, and also quite literally a family (if you have kids). That doesn’t mean you can’t have boundaries or evaluate imbalances in the burdens placed on one partner or the other. That’s part of being a team, too. I think what people are saying when they say “you’re a team” is simply that you are supposed to be on each other’s side. You can’t have a happy relationship that’s adversarial and constantly keeping score on every petty thing.

This “we’re a family” and “you aren’t acting like a team player” crap is toxic in a work environment precisely because they aren’t your family, and it generally means they’re trying to guilt you into putting your job before your real family and personal life. It’s a very different thing.

Oh, and this is another blatant misuse of the term “gaslighting.” Gaslighting is making someone doubt their sanity. Someone disagreeing with your approach to relationships isn’t gaslighting. Even the “we’re a family” work example isn’t gaslighting. It’s a manipulation, but they aren’t making you think you’re crazy or stupid.

InfamousBake1859 · 2023-01-31T05:12:03+00:00

A good team is reliable and not all the work or burden is shoved to one person. So i don’t mind this at all.

ProfessorFelix0812 · 2023-01-31T05:42:42+00:00

The term “gaslight” is waaaaaaaay overused nowadays…

nastyfella · 2023-01-31T06:55:37+00:00

It sounds like this is a problem in your relationship

PenOrganic2956 · 2023-01-31T19:01:50+00:00

I believe "We Are A Team" can be something great if both people believe that and are team players. Its about building trust, being about to lean on each other, and to have someone looking out for you.

Title	The "We are a team" gaslight
Author	UneastAji
Upvotes	40
Comments	120
Date	January 30, 2023 1:27 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/10p21f0/the_we_are_a_team_gaslight/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-we-are-a-team-gaslight.1150702 https://theredarchive.com/post/1150702

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