There can't be progress made on rape or sexual assault if we are still thinking mattress girl was really raped.

shoup88 · 2018-02-02T19:26:15+00:00

What is about one specific case that means we can't make "progress on rape or sexual assault"? What exactly does that even mean? Are you looking for 100% universal agreement regarding this specific case?

If you do get 100% agreement that this one specific case was a false allegation, how do you think we should then progress forward?

haunting-you · 2018-02-02T20:12:59+00:00

Perspectives like these are dangerous, as they assume any man is a violent rapist waiting to strike. They simply make women paranoid of rape, and not empowered to help themselves and stop it.

i don't see how this one comment about one story is evidence that all women assume any man they see is 100% a violent rapist out to get them; the person was just explaining something.

but, given that any person has the ability to pose a risk to another, whether it's a man or a woman, for rape or assault or an accusation, whatever, isn't exercising some caution and concern wrt interacting with those people a good thing? the 'paranoia' you're referring to is something that women use to 'stop it', or rather, prevent it from having happened at all. it's not fail-proof, little is, but it certainly doesn't hurt.

We need to identify more women like mattress girl who have severe psychological issues and exclude them from the real women who experienced sexual assault and rape.

can't say i agree; this change you're proposing now brings into question who is a real victim, and by what standards (which vary too greatly from person to person). i can't speak to the legal issues this may or may not cause, but as a moral judgment, no, that's stupid.

kandyapplez · 2018-02-02T20:00:21+00:00

Are we still thinking about mattress girl at all? No one is. The future progress of sexual assault doesn't hinge on her case at all.

Cho_Assmilk · 2018-02-02T20:33:50+00:00

The problem isn't the case you mention. The problem is the shift within society of innocent until proven guilty to guilty until proven innocent. This narrative isn't limited to rape victims either.

atlantic68 · 2018-02-02T18:49:00+00:00

You are out of your mind if you think fucking once means you can do whatever the fuck you want later on.

SlimLovin · 2018-02-02T19:06:25+00:00

Are we really still going on about Mattress Girl?

Anything to confirm your bias that false allegations are rampant, I guess.

And your headline is patently false. We can and have made progress on sexual assault post-MG. So.... /thread

Edit: One more thing: What did you think you were demonstrating by showing her art at the end of the post? Art is meant to be provocative. How does showing this picture strengthen your argument?

Gravel_Roads · 2018-02-02T18:16:42+00:00

...I'm not sure what you're proposing. Demonstrations such as what this girl was doing are about raising awareness of sexual assault and to force a social dialogue.

It seems like that is exactly what she has prompted you to do, isn't it?

If you really want to 'exclude' someone from a dialogue, using them as the topic of the conversation isn't really the best method.

songofmelancholy · 2018-02-02T18:14:57+00:00

The “mattress girl” who was raped at Columbia university had sex with the guy consensually a couple times before, and then one day he wigged out and started beating her and slapping her and forcing her to have anal sex. This is a classmate, mind you, not some guy off the street she barely knew.

Okay but beating a woman and forcing her to have anal sex is still rape. it doesn't matter that he and her had consensual sex prior. i don't think a woman's sexual history should even FACTOR into whether or not an act committed against her legally meets the requirements to be deemed rape.

THAT SAID, i think the real conversation is why do women think that men will curr about their sexual experiences over the age of 22? cuz men do not.

nemma88 · 2018-02-02T19:22:38+00:00

In many cases we don't have details until much later, and the majority of cases we will never know. We can lean on the balance but we do not know. People will react either way - there's plenty of people who automatically believe one way or another.

I don't think we can stop people having or talking about opinions on things. Plenty of posts on neutral ground will have commenters leaning to automatically believing the accuser is lying as well as automatically believing the accuser. I think most people already know in cases there can and are false accusations.

mgtow_1 · 2018-02-03T05:35:15+00:00

Rape and sexual assault are crimes. Wrongfully accusing someone of a crime is also a crime. Until we start holding people legally accountable for the latter nothing will change.

Isolated_Aura · 2018-02-02T19:20:15+00:00

I was actually attending Columbia as a graduate student when this happened. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I recommend you just delete this entire post. You're making yourself look bad.

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mistercheeez-o____O- · 2018-02-03T00:09:18+00:00

The FBI has a huge backlog of rape cases that can be verified with increasingly sophisticated DNA evidence. As the various movements in the mainstream seem to be piling on the cases of sexual harassment, misconduct or abuse in the lives of women. The exonerations of the falsely accused are silently piling up in staggering amounts. There is progress for the falsely accused men, but the mainstream media is not reporting on it. As our technological means improve, a more accurate view of these issues will eventually surface. And that's no matter if the public actually cares about the latter issue or not. Applied science will provide the more realistic answer. If by progressive you mean accurate, well it's comin'.

peacockpartypants · 2018-02-03T05:09:16+00:00

is by accepting some accusations or sexual assault or rape are false. And, that women can at times have motives to lie about being assaulted or raped.

I don't think people deny false allegations exists I think what some people may feel frustration by is the focus is on a very small percentage of people who lie, as opposed to the much higher percentage of people who have been assaulted.

The really strange thing I've learned about false rape allegations is the rate in which they're made isn't far off from false murder allegations. The rate being speculated somewhere under 5%.

The trouble is that since these rates are quite low it's far more likely the person isn't lying, and someone is defending a rapist.

Perspectives like these are dangerous, as they assume any man is a violent rapist waiting to strike.

My perception was different. On one hand I read that more about saying... "The rapist always is just that, even if he hasn't yet." It also read to me, like someone who had suffered a sexual assault. If you've ever suffered a sexual assault from someone you trust it's very jarring and makes you question everyone. As someone else mentioned, it's important not to take one person's opinion as holding anything but that. After a woman's been raped, for some, you better damn well believe it does feel like every man is predator. How fucked is that? Do you have any clue what that must be like to live with every day, every step you take out the door?

They simply make women paranoid of rape, and not empowered to help themselves and stop it.

I really don't agree with this because it suggests that victims and survivors had a choice. No one wants to be raped or assaulted. The kind of thinking that women have a "choice" also takes away the responsibility from human beings not to be assholes or hurt other people.

Mattress girl's case was found to have no evidence, even at the college administrative level, or the court level. Even today she is just doing sexual performance art in new york city https://broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/d3gqaw/mattress-girl-emma-sulkowicz-is-backand-channeling-her-rage-through-bdsm it's clear this woman is not actually raped.

I didn't follow her story closely enough to have a proper opinion one way or another.

What I do know is that even when people are raped, it is a difficult crime to prove, so it's extremely under-reported. Many assaults go under reported because of the "blame the victim, you asked for it, I bet she's just lying" stigma sexual assault victims face.

Someone alleges they know who murdered their friend and someone alleges they know who raped them. Women face a higher chance of being treated like they're lying even though the crimes have generally similar rates of false allegations.

it's clear this woman is not actually raped.

How is it so clear? Isn't a woman suppose to be empowered and not be a victim? So if a rape victim(generally speaking) reclaims her sexuality, she couldn't have possibly been raped? Are woman suppose to forever behave a certain way after being raped I'm not aware of?

We need to identify more women like mattress girl who have severe psychological issues and exclude them from the real women who experienced sexual assault and rape.

I think part of the trouble is that somehow false allegations have become synonymous with geniune sexual assault and rape. Synonymous without regard for the fact they're not the same thing, without regard that they're two different topics.

One one hand, some hold an issue with a very small percentage of women who make false rape and sexual assault allegations. There is not a denial it isn't a small problem, which it is a small problem based on the best research available.

The concern is that, a small percentage of false allegations is not synonymous to something around 1 in 4, or 25% of all adult women experiencing sexual assault. That's all women here. This is a huge, huge number. They're just two different problems, and neither should have the power to influence the other. Particularly when, rape and sexual assault is such a huge problem.

False rape allegations are in fact a big problem for a very small percentage of people who face them. Some claim the odds of a straight man in the US being falsely accused of rape are about 2 million to 1 based on FBI statistics.

Rape is a big problem for moderate amount of all adult women. 1 out of 6 women will experience rape throughout her lifetime, that we know of.

Still, men too, while not as frequently, experience sexual assault too.

I think the whole "Rape is only violent! Only strangers can rape you! Where's your black eye?" ideology about how some parts of society think about rape needs to evolve.

handklap · 2018-02-03T16:05:50+00:00

Let's assume that MG's version of events is true. First off, they already have an established sexual history, meaning she likes him already to a certain extent, implying consent, etc. On this occasion, he is on top, her legs over his shoulders, he is fucking her, everything is fine. Then, suddenly, he pulls out of her pussy and instead starts to have sex with her anally. Then he turns into rough mode and holds her down, fucks her real hard, she is now saying 'stop' and 'don't' and trying, unsuccessfully, to hold him off.

You could argue it was assault, sure. The problem is that she waited 8 months before she told anyone and in the interim, she sent a whole bunch of love notes to him.

He denies her claims and, when combined with her previous sexual relations with him and her post-rape love notes... at that point, there was nothing the school or the police can do. It's over. Except in her case, both her and the school decided it was appropriate to publicly shame the guy. That's where Columbia and MG were completely in the wrong.

ANTIFA_SARKEESIAN · 2018-02-03T17:41:11+00:00

If you want to make a post to complain about false rape allegations, you probably shouldn't choose a case where the alleged rapist was also accused of sexual assault by three other women. KINDA undermines your point, lmao

rulenumber303 · 2018-02-04T02:04:23+00:00

There's a general rule that most sensible women adhere to when dealing with men of whom they lack deep personal experience, that goes "If he did something bad to her he'll do it to you too given half a chance." It is a rule very similar to AWALT, in that it has a protective purpose and those who adhere to it don't give a shit how hard done by strangers feel that they are adhering to the rule. One can, if one wishes, argue that such a rule may be wrong However people have a right to simplify their life by following such rules.

He badmouths his previous girlfriend? If he done it to her he'll do it to you. He cheated? If he done it to her he'll do it to you. He hit a girlfriend? He'll hit you. etc. Take your risks as you find them but never forget what he did to her.

Pretty much it says "guys don't change and they don't learn and you ain't so special that they'll change and learn for you" which is sadly true of men in general with some exceptions. But as TRP points out... we can't go round acting as if the the stranger we met a few weeks ago is an exception, we've got not good evidence on that.

From what I know of the MG incident, what he did would be rape if he'd done it to me or most of the women I know. However, I would not have waited like MG did, I'd have probably fetched a knife immediately and done large amounts of bodily harm to him ("slit his fucking throat from behind" is what comes to mind) then phoned the police to come arrest me because whelp time to plead guilty and spend thirty years slopping out.

So for all practical purposes in terms of how I deal with him personally and how I suggest other women deal with him, the mattress fuckboi is a rapist. I mean he's not legally a rapist. But he's rapey enough that the exact same actions with a woman who took it less as a story component and more as the violation most of us would know it as then yeah, that would be rape. And the ONLY thing that stopped it being rape legally was that MG did not label it as such until she wanted to tell a compelling story to get good marks and publicity.

The mattress fuckboi is functionally indistinguishable from a rapist.

Jammerly1 · 2018-02-03T02:41:29+00:00

You sound mad, bro. You mad bro? Why you’re so invested in believing mattress girl made up her rape case, I’ll never know. I guess being accused by 3 other people of assault isn’t enough. I don’t know why assault charges keep “happening” to this one guy.

Title	There can't be progress made on rape or sexual assault if we are still thinking mattress girl was really raped.
Author	zarmock
Upvotes	30
Comments	251
Date	February 2, 2018 6:11 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/7ut8o4/there_cant_be_progress_made_on_rape_or_sexual/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/there-cant-be-progress-made-on-rape-or-sexual.263745 https://theredarchive.com/post/263745

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