Why don't more young men learn how to validate their own masculinity instead of always depending on the stimuli of women, other men and society at large?

webernicke · 2023-02-21T22:29:36+00:00

a real man knows how to accept his flaws, but still tries to make something out of himself

Ironic.

"A real man should do what I say a real man should do, and ignore what all those other people say a real man should do."

Maybe the problem is that everyone (including you apparently) finds it very hard to resist trying to define "man" beyond just an adult male human.

PartTimeDummy · 2023-02-21T22:23:10+00:00

Humans require validation from other humans.

Men, despite much believe to the contrary, are humans with human desires.

EBITDA_5x · 2023-02-21T23:04:31+00:00

Every single person, man, woman, boy, girl desires to be loved, and validation is a part of that. As long you are seeking validation from the right people, for the right reasons, don’t see anything wrong with that.

Steakman1 · 2023-02-22T02:03:45+00:00

The “don’t give a shit about what anyone thinks of you” mentality only works if you have people who give a shit about you. There are societal expectations put on men. The less expectations are met, the less that people like/respect you. If nobody likes or respects you, you will be a social outcast and will be miserable.

Sure not caring about what others think can make you more respectable and make you appear more masculine. But that’s only if you meet enough societal requirements of masculinity first.

lolthankstinder · 2023-02-22T00:49:22+00:00

If I put a house up for sale for 1 million and no one's willing to pay that much, is it really worth a million?

You can try to ignore the world all you want, but at the end of the day, the world is going to come back to haunt you. Wanting external validation is pretty natural because it confirms your "worth". Sure, we can teach men to stop caring so much about validating their worth/masculinity, but we can ALSO try to promote a culture of healthy and positive masculinity.

Using my guy friend group as a barometer, toxic masculinity is pretty much gone. We're all different heights and sizes but we're tight and support each other no matter what. One of our friends came out as gay and nothing changed. His boyfriend tagged along on the next boys trip!

You know where I do see toxic masculinity a lot from still though? Women. Women will condemn toxic masculinity and then turn around and only date tall, conventionally masculine men. This makes it really hard to promote a culture of healthy, positive masculinity when your fit 5'8" friends have to choose between being forever alone or dating someone with an unhealthy BMI simply because they're not tall.

So, yes, they try not to let it get to their head. They've done a pretty good job of that all their life and continue to do so. However, we can also promote a culture of healthy and positive masculinity that doesn't shame/shun men for something they can't control, and a BIG chunk of that is from women.

Temporary_Visual8414 · 2023-02-21T23:08:57+00:00

Could most females even be happy in a vacuum? This isn’t a male issue!

tired_hillbilly · 2023-02-21T23:32:01+00:00

We do not decide how masculine we are; this whole self-validation thing Bluepillers push fundamentally misunderstands how these values work.

Imagine I convince myself I'm super charming and charismatic. But whenever I go to a social event, nobody listens to anything I have to say, all my jokes just get gormless stares. Am I really, actually charming and charismatic? I mean my self-validation says I am?

If I actually care about results, my internal conception is irrelevant. If I want people to listen to my stories and laugh at my jokes, I have to get better at socializing; I can't just keep doing what I was doing.

Likewise, if I want the results of masculinity; i.e. dating success, respect, admiration, I have to actually fit the bill. I can't just say "I'm masculine" and expect the world to agree with no proof.

Safinated · 2023-02-21T23:07:31+00:00

External sources of validation are easier for the ego than internal

John_Oakman · 2023-02-22T11:49:19+00:00

Because if validation is completely independent of social approval it will lead to the erosion of society and good order. You think it's a good idea for an asstwat to ignore shaming from the community, or a professional slacker immune to being prodded to be useful for the economy?

Notsonewguy7 · 2023-02-21T23:51:03+00:00

Self validation is a myth made up by narcissistic American self help gurus..

If you are not a psychopath you care about the opinion this is caveats there's some people you despise and therefore their opinions mean nothing whether they are affirming you or dismissing it.

Really the best advice is to learn to live with disappointment and dissatisfaction without needing false hope or anger.

Just live, it is what it is "c'est comme ça"

propyl21 · 2023-02-21T23:39:07+00:00

If a person lacks self respect, or has low self esteem, or doesn't love himself, or is not content in his own skin, he will seek this validation externally.

Besides, if a person doesn't have the pointers I mentioned above, it means he has the opposite. Self loathing, internal chaos, total disrespect for the self, a fragile ego, toxic masculinity, and so on.

Along comes a doctrine like the red pill that tells the man that if he gets all the sex through the teachings of the red pill, then he is top dog. This belief instills an identity in him. Heck, some guys even think they're top dog just for having swallowed the red pill without anything to show for it. Though to the outsider he just seems like someone with a superiority complex who puts women below him.

Kaminaxgurren · 2023-02-21T22:55:46+00:00

I started training myself in boxing, both as a means to lose weight and because I thought I would enjoy it, and it definitely fits the bill of making me feel masculine, and not from people knowing that I train. I certainly don't look like I train right now, and I don't go out of my way to tell people. I think the trick is to find something you enjoy enough and makes you feel good enough that, in at least that one aspect of your life, you don't require validation from others.

MDFornia · 2023-02-22T00:48:19+00:00

It's a good question, and something I've wondered for a while, and don't have any satisfying answers for. I think part of it is that validation from women is so rare, that when you do get it, it's a very strong signal that you're doing something right, and it's easy to chase that. There may also be an evolutionary bio adaptation involved, as validation from your bros and peers is cool, but validation from a potential mate damn short circuits the male fuckmonkey brain. Indeed, the man's role in the dating market is that of the salesman, and women are the (choosy) customers. It validates his whole purpose in that market when he gets validation from a woman

Finally, I think society still has a really old-fashioned way of measuring a man's manhood, and it essentially boils down to: "do you get bitches?". With such a narrow (and fucking difficult) lens of scrutiny, is it hard to understand why men really only care about what one segment of the population thinks about them?

butterfly_cats · 2023-02-22T04:33:55+00:00

Wanting external validation is perfectly natural for both humans. Everyone needs it sometimes. What I think (or I hope) OP is trying to say is that men rely more heavily on external validation and a set list of things they must achieve to have self-worth, while women are more encouraged to create our own self-worth. This is definitely a flaw in our society, and we need be encouraging young boys to find themselves the same way we encourage girls but unfortunately too many people who still support the same sexist views prevent that from happening.

abaxeron · 2023-02-22T11:53:56+00:00

"Why do troop animals act like troop animals"

Ummmm because up until the last 60 years of certain very unlucky mistakes, this is how we survived as a species.

I recently tried myself in writing. If my stories were either so terrible, or so unpublished that no-one ever saw them, the only difference between them written and not written - is wasted time.

Icy_Skin8125 · 2023-02-21T23:17:06+00:00

A man entirely dependent on his internal world for stimulation and validation is by definition schizophrenic. Human brains are inexorably linked to the affirmation of others. Seeing others drown in endless esteem and validation while getting none themselves makes any sane man thirsty for just a taste of it.

ChudBuck · 2023-02-21T23:03:32+00:00

This is happening because hypergamy has been spiraling out of control. No, not in a "free" smp, when the the rest of us have to supplicate single moms and stupids/lazy's with our taxes, there is nothing free about it. Hypergamy isn't just spiraling out, it's exacerbated by the immoral foundation that is the welfate state. Anyways, competition is fierce, and love is conditional. Of course you either break your back to rise to the top or die trying while the system is custom tailored to fuck your shit up. Then you just have to make due with the fact that woman you're seeing (since its only your turn) can tinder up some rando d1 athlete or football player anytime she wants. We have no power in relationships, we just take and enjoy what we can get.

wtknight · 2023-02-21T23:15:21+00:00

Why don't more young men learn how to validate their own masculinity instead of always depending on the stimuli of women, other men and society at large?

Men who are having a lot of sex always lord over the ones who aren't having any sex. A man being able to attract women signals his high value compared to other men who cannot or who have trouble doing it.

Due-Lie-8710 · 2023-02-21T23:36:40+00:00

masculinity is validated by women , feminity is validated by men , in some sense, women have learned how to not care about male validation men have not , the problem is , all attempts to get men not care about it will lead to a them not caring about what women think , and in process not value women

1Here4Bach · 2023-02-21T23:47:57+00:00

You’re right. And the males in the comments saying women also crave validation from males are being disingenuous.

Yes, women crave validation from the opposite sex. But the average woman craves love and validation from ONE male. Males crave love and validation from many women. Which is why males complain about not get compliments from multiple women.

A compliment from one woman isn’t enough to satisfy the male ego. We already know that. The majority of males will never be THAT guy, they’ll never been a heartthrob that can get female validation from basically any woman at the drop of a hat. Which is why hedging one’s masculinity of female validation is a fool’s errand. Males will never be satisfied. They’ll always want more validation from more women.

THHBHStT · 2023-02-21T23:33:45+00:00

I don’t understand this at all. What makes you think young men aren’t validating their masculinity for themselve by doing or attempting the things you listed

Many men want to join the military, own super cars, have sex with bunch of women etc

That’s what they want to do, what makes you think it’s society telling them to do this? Not every man wants to join the military, be an elite athlete, own nice cars, be on jackass, etc so it can’t be young men at large

Honestly I feel like a post aimed at young women with a message would get a shit ton of flack. “You don’t need makeup to embrace femininity” for example

just_a_place · 2023-02-22T10:36:54+00:00

Shhhh!!! Careful now! You're sounding too much like MGTOW.

And we all know how ferociously they were persecuted by organized feminists and their media shills censuring and character-assassinating them across the internet for their "extremist ideas" about self-ownership, personal sovereignty, and worst of all "self-actualization" without women!... 😮

The scoundrels.

That is why they had to go underground and have since dropped the moniker so now it is impossible to identify them 😉

[edit]: Every single comment in this post is about "muh feewings, we all needs houwer feewings valuh-HUR-dated!"

ugh... Jesus Christ.

“All of humanity's problems stem from man's inability to sit quietly in a room alone."

- Blaise Pascal. (MGTOW extraordinaire.)

Grapestheanswer · 2023-02-21T22:44:23+00:00

Wet dick feels good

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jay_de-leon · 2023-02-21T23:01:24+00:00

This is all comes down to society programming young men to believe all of that bullshit. Once men as a whole reject the programming and gain some self respect the better off they’ll be.

cromulent_weasel · 2023-02-21T23:46:05+00:00

don't get too caught up on being a performative robot

But also, do do that as well. Because it you get too far off the track that's also a nono.

jay10033 · 2023-02-21T23:46:14+00:00

Do you not believe in socialization? This sounds really dumb.

iGetBuckets3 · 2023-02-22T01:35:42+00:00

My sister in christ, we don’t care about validating our masculinity we just want to have sex and feel loved because it feels good.

loonofamad · 2023-02-22T02:10:16+00:00

I require a defination of 'As a man just have your shit together' please. As i see this phrase thrown around a lot and it has never really made sense to me. What does it mean in this context?

Round-Relative-7859 · 2023-02-22T14:20:35+00:00

Well, women can help by not deconstructing and shaming male only organizations and not infiltrating them.

If men cannot get validation from other men because they cannot organize, they will get validation from other things, such as parasocial validation from playing video games, porn, etc.

BioNipple · 2023-02-24T05:20:37+00:00

Because there is a lot of money to be made off of people's insecurities. Mostly men's.

Men often get bombarded with tits on every app, every infomercial, every tv show, etc. Even if you try to block them out they will try to penetrate academia, cartoons, etc.

It's repulsive how soon boys are exposed to these things. And how eager women are to participate in them. But this is our society now.

D_D_BA4 · 2023-02-23T00:40:02+00:00

Male organizations and activities are criticized, banned and shamed. How would women do with no validation for their entire lives? Another bad faith post.

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