Not this much equal rights! Xpost

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I remember reading a /r/welding post and thinking "You have to be fucking me"

It was a legitimate situation, some contractor groped her, she complained to her boss and later found a craigslist ad for her position. That's legit, no doubt about that.

But then I read the rest of the post, and it was her talking about how she planned to enter a nicely paying permanent position, stash as much money as she could and leave to have a baby. And The whole time I was thinking, "Holy shit. She's just a liability issue for her boss who has to hire someone twice because she's quitting in a month anyways"

Three days later I was talking with some of my father's friends. Two of them are older and a bit racist and legitimately sexist. One of them was looking to hire someone for a warehouse job, and another one said "Don't hire a woman. If they're young they're gonna leave to have a baby and if they're older they're not gonna be as strong as a man anyways"

His last point was true, a 50 year old woman won't compare to a 30 year old man. I was gonna call him out for saying they'd leave to have children, but it just wouldn't have been honest to do it.

Fuck. The cognitive dissonance, mannnn

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That view is out of date now unfortunately. It's the same thing that happened with feminism. Both equality movements started out with noble goals, we just want to be treated the sane, we don't want to be seen as "black" or a "woman" just a person. But somewhere along the line they realized that true equality meant equal responsibility as well. It means giving up victim status and having to contribute just as much as white males. So they dropped the color/gender blindness stuff. BLM considers wanting a colorblind society, the very same Rev King spoke about, to actually be just another form of racism. Now they want to have all of the supposed privilege of whites, handouts, freebies, etc but still cling to their separate-but-more-equal culture. It's the same as feminists who want to be given a high paying corporate job because they feel white men only have those due to privilege, but no women sign up to be electrical line (wo)men, garbage collectors, or off shore oil rig workers. All the benefits, none of the responsibility or accountability. That's the new game for pretty much all equality movements. And you can be damn sure if a Christian wanted a gay baker to make a cake with a bible verse on it and the baker refused, no one would be calling for the gay baker to be shut down or forced to make the cake.

Honestly I can't think of a single minority equality movement that hasn't turned into that. You can tell by the way they all backtrack as soon as they get a taste of the responsibility side of equality. As soon as they are told they have to start putting the work in, be held accountable to the same degree for their actions, and have to start paying in instead of taking handouts, the equality talk dries up. None of them want equality. They want revenge. They want their turn making the rules and holding the whip.That's it.

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I know of a company I did contract work fora while back. they have 5 black men and 8 people of various other ethnicities.

2 of the black men were fired recently for theft. 2 are working well with no issues and are part of the team. The last one.. Well he won't do his work. I went in one day and he hasn't loaded any of his pallets or cleared his area. He came back several days in a row with almost a full load still in his truck saying he couldn't get it out.

They fired him and contracted me to do his job. I had no issues and did almost double his load. He came in a day later saying he "knew they replaced him with a white boy and he was gonna sue for racism"

They caved and let him work again. A week later he was doing the same shit except then he would openly walk around saying he wasn't gonna do this or that and "try to fire me I'll sue the shit out of this place"

He was fired a week later. Tried to sue them and got laughed at. It's people like that that give a bad name while the two hard working guys are cringing in the corner

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If we can bend the definitions of 'rape', 'racism', 'consent', 'due process', 'shaming' and similar words to the point where they can be applied to basically anything related to men or their interacion with society in general, then I'm sorry but we'll have to change the definition of 'feminism' too as they're the cause as well as one of the driving forces behind these changes. Apologies for pointing that out but the movement that calls itself feminism has gone from an equal rights movement to professional victimhood, man-hating, gender-segregation and similar mental acrobatics. But hey, let's just change all the definitions of words we can use in a favourable way while trying to keep the 60s spirit brand stigma of what we call ourselves. Sorry darling, that pig won't fly.

No, as long as those whacko cunts carry out their "operations" under the flag of feminism, I'll accordingly address that behaviour as part of feminism.

Oh wait, that's misogyny and racism amirite?

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We shouldn't change the definition of anything period. Rape is still rape, i don't recall the OFFICIAL definition changing. Racism is still racism, consent is still consent, etc... the only thing that is changing is the way that misinformed people view these words because all they see are examples on the news or social media. The government might strategically bend the definitions to get their way with people and the law...

The reason definitions exist is to give a word a solid meaning so that things can be named for what they are. A feminist is an advocate of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men. These women arent feminist, because they don't match up with the definition of a feminist and that's that.

Just because the government or corrupted people in power warp the definitions of these words to have control over people does not mean that they have changed the definition, much less does it make them right/correct. You choose to listen to them or know the true definition for yourself. That's why education is important, and thats why we fight against this type of behavior.

I hope I make sense. I'm not really good at explaining but I'm trying to get my point across. I still don't understand what you meant about "we" or us bending the definitions of 'rape', 'racism', 'consent', 'due process', 'shaming' and similar words. If you spot people like this all you have to do is show them the real definition and prove them wrong, similar to how i did. You cant just run around bending the definitions of words, because that is spreading misinformation and being completely ignorant. This is similar to what most people do with Feminism. And it's a shame that ACTUAL feminists have a stigma now, when they are trying to bring true equality to women AND MEN, just because Radical Feminists get all the media attention and now everyone thinks thay that is what you call a feminist. It's so annoying for me because I want true equality for men and women, but if I say I'm a feminist I'm burdened with the stigma brought on to me by RADICAL FEMINISTS who don't give a shit about true equality.

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Not really, if you didnt get all your information from social media, and reddit you would probably understand what feminism is. Just because Radical Feminists get most of the media attention (because theyre fucking crazy, and media loves crazy) doesnt mean that they're feminists. I can see why most people would just assume that they're feminist, because for the most part social media is their only exposure to them so all they see are radical feminists. If you read the definition for feminism it would say something along the lines of "the advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men." So are these women feminists? NO,because obviously they dont want true equality so they CAN'T be feminists. Open your fucking mind, read a dictionary, and stop trying to be such a smart ass when you dont even know what you're talking about.

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Jesus fucking Christ, nothing combines agony and humiliation quite like an Enlarged Prostate. Female-sexual-repression my ass, talk to me when it's socially acceptable for a man to masturbate in a public restroom (for medical purposes.)

That's one thing that women will never understand, and, trust me, they should be thankful. I have a naturally high sex drive, but don't have sex. So, an Enlarged Prostate is an unfortunately common affliction.

During finals last December, I started to get antsy in my seat, my ass felt liked I'd slide across sandpaper, so I walked to the bathroom. It went from sand-paper to fire, and progressively got worse and worse- until I was screaming into my bundle up jacket, and punching the stall door out of frustration, counting every second until the 'bee-sting-in-your-ass/bullet-in-your-gut' pain went away. I was holding back tears and counting the seconds, in an ice cold bathroom for THREE HOURS. And that's ONCE, I'm genuinely terrified of where I'll be when it'll happen next.

Enlarged Prostate is the Ebola of young men. It's agonizing, prolonged, and needs to be hidden. Besides, the only real solution is going to the ICU, so a nurse can stick finger up your ass and push.

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That's tricky though because the current rules have been laid out for men.

Usually when deciding about the minimum or maximum for some value, you look at the average and variance and then you pick a number that includes enough people. For example, it wouldn't make sense to require that Air Force pilots be as small and light as Peter Dinklage, even if that would allow for better aircraft design. There's just way too few people fitting that requirement.

And that of course means that you can choose any requirement so that the group of people that you don't want in your group cannot meet the requirement. If you want to get rid of women, insist on push ups or lifting. If you wanna get rid of men, insist on low daily calorie intake or weight. And of course, height is always a good option to get rid of a gender.

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Same amount of push ups. Same mile runs. Same diet and same treatment. That's equality.

There are literally millions of jobs in the US military. And, just as all other nations armed forces, not all require you to be in some kind of super fit condition. Why should it be a problem for a drone pilot to be in a wheelchair?

And the test does not test your ability, they test your will. For a female to run as fast or a little slower then a male is more impressive and proves her will and ability to make herself fit.

Only the jobs which has physically demanding work at its core should have equal tests. I do not know about the US, but in Norway this is how it is done. Only a few specialised infantry jobs has equal physical requirements. And they are harder than the standard requirements, even men struggle.

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There is no singular 'feminism'

Then you have no right to make the repeated claim that "'Feminists' are against the drafting of [men]" as you have numerous times on this thread. Either feminism is some wash of ideologies with conflicting positions, or its a singular movement. You can't have it both ways.

You're absolutely right. There is no singular 'feminism' but the article you link even says

The Order of the White Feather raises interesting questions about women’s response to the Great War. For pacifist feminists, ranging from Sylvia Pankhurst to Virginia Woolf, as well as the many rank and file members of the Women’s International League of Peace and Freedom, the obvious feminist position on war was to be against it.

White feather girls are a (significant) yet historical anomaly. And, mostly a reactionary response to carefully crafted state propaganda.

I'm acutely aware the article is feminist apologia for the white feather campaign. My point was that your claim that feminists "fought against the draft" is not true and is debunked by the writings of people from your own camp.

Besides, given feminism's traditional bent toward the left and its ties to Marxism, I wouldn't be surprised if the source for feminist opposition toward the draft had its origins in the idea that conscription was unpaid labor and enslavement of the population to achieve the ends of the state or the wealthy elite, and not because men died in war.

My point is so many men on this site actively spend a ton of emotional energy directed at "feminists" when, the vast majority these organizations & movements are not anti-men. If they are not against you, they are for you.

lol by that logic, the Ku Klux Klan is a movement for the rights of Chinese immigrants in America, since they've rarely spoken out against them as a demographic in their fight for the rights of white Americans.

Feminism is a movement predicated on the distrust of, if not downright contempt for, the male race. Feminists promote the fictitious narratives of the patriarchy, rape culture, male privilege, the wage gap, etc. which place the blame for women's suffering on the male collective, and they will lie to promote these narratives which don't even stand up to basic scrutiny (eta: they will also lie about how their movement allegedly supports men). They routinely shame men for failing to throw their support toward the movement (yeah I don't like AVFM either but this article is on point).

You don't have feminism, at the very least, without the presumption that society favors men at the expense of all women. Why even bother calling yourself fem-inist if you personally don't believe this?

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There will be propaganda played and it will make some people want to join

You must understand by the time the draft is initiated those people are dead. For instance during the First World War, it took England two years of fighting before it was forced to conscript people because the patriotic calls for service were no longer being answered.

Before a draft is forced, your young, healthy, able bodied, patriotic countrymen have already volunteered. And likely perished. Okay next are the rejected ones who would make an adequate service member but they're not as high caliber. They could be just a bit out of shape, bit older then you'd like but they'll do.

By the time you draft, you're getting the last people you want fighting for you but they'll have to do. In terms of recruitment, these guys flat out suck. These guys may have multiple medical waivers, really old, stupid, may have a criminal record that just got waived, or if they're young and healthy - unmotivated or cowardly. You got your work cut out for you if you're going to turn these guys into a military. And your NCO/LPO's are not going to have the patience to deal with them. The only acceptable answer will be "Yes Sergeant" or "Aye Aye Petty Officer".

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Since atleast WW1 all men in the US have had to sign up for the Selective Service as soon as they turn 18. Basically agreeing that in times of war, should the government decide it necessary, they will be forced to join the military or else face criminal charges. They can also face criminal charges for not signing up in the SS in the first place.

Now, it has been made that women who turn 18 after an upcoming date will have to as well.

Que some women losing their shit about how it's not fair.

Also worth noting that every year the draft (when the SS is actually called into use) gets less and less likely to happen ever again, despite already being very unlikely to begin with. A single senator has been proposing it be activated almost every year since 9/11 and its been overwhelming declined each time.

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As an anti-feminist woman, the fact that this law is making some men giddy turns my stomach. I understand that men are fed up with feminazis, but we won't be sending many of them since they are a small minority; we'll be sending the average every day woman, we'll be sending women who have always preferred to adhere to gender roles, submit to their husbands, etc. Women who never wanted any part in this madness.

I have always considered myself an MRA, but now I'm having trouble understanding what you guys want. I thought you were angry because women were trying to become "more like men". I thought you were angry because you wanted ladies to be ladies, but now you're celebrating this absolutely idiotic idea.

I personally don't think anyone should be ripped from their lives, from their families, to go fight in a war they don't want to fight. So to say the least... this is a big step in the wrong direction. And I'm saying that as a woman who won't be impacted by this law.

[–]higs87[S] 4 points5 points6 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

We have two issues here: the draft and women's rights. I truly respect you for being clear minded enough to not be a feminazi. I understand and respect that women have been biased against for a long time and I'm extremely keen to fix this. I do not in any way support the draft. The reason I posted this is because as a male I have to deal with prejudice daily. I must be constantly aware as to the situations I find myself in and whether or not I need to protect myself from unfounded accusations etc. A woman can ruin a man's life with three words "he raped me". I was once raped by a woman, I get laughed at and ridiculed when I admit it. This is fucking bullshit. If women want equal rights then they get the whole kit and caboodle. If a woman hits me I'll fucking deck her etc etc. It's attitudes like the one in the Facebook post that fuck up any chance of coming to a successful and fair resolution to the situation. /rant

[–]SurlyTurkey 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Hey, I'm 110% with you on that. On the fact that women have a very unfair advantage when it comes to rape accusations, the family court system, etc. I just cut off half my family because an aunt decided to start accusing my dad of molesting her as a kid. He's been dead for 14 years and shortly after I decided to come back to the family, she started this shit. And because he was mentally ill, people are believing her, flocking around her in support. It makes me sick for him, your story makes me sick for you. I have always been behind men who are getting taken advantage of and having their lives ruined. That's why this whole thing has had me feeling pretty deflated; I felt part of something good until they were like "haha fuck you, can't wait to see you bitches try to survive in combat". Y'know?

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I'm not sure why you think MRA's are about enforcing current gender norms. It seems to me the MRA is primarily about ensuring men and women have equal rights, by advocating for areas where men have fewer or weaker rights than women do.

Young men being forced to sign up for selective services to get some of the same basic rights young women get for being born in the USA is an issue of equality, not gender roles.

Let's keep in mind that the draft will likely not happen, and, were it to happen it is likely still going to be mostly men who are drafted. But this disgust you're feeling, this unease, it's also a good outcome. Because you are not alone, it is felt by many many people around the country, and it may be enough to get the mandatory selective services removed as an institution, now that female lives are at risk too.

[–]SurlyTurkey 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I suppose I feel that way because it's just the impression I've always gotten from RedPillers, MRA's, and the like. That women are trying so hard to be equal in ways that we simply are not equal, and it's aggravating.

I didn't previously consider the possibility you outlined in your last paragraph. That women's lives being put on the line could ultimately abolish selective service. That's sad for obvious reasons, society shouldn't have waited until women's lives were at risk to finally decide "hey, maybe we should do away with this whole thing".

But if this does manage to make it to where my husband, brother, nephew, and all the other men out there can rest assured that they have a choice in whether or not they go to war... yeah that would definitely make this worth it. If not, though... well, then we might have a nightmare coming.

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[–]SurlyTurkey 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

That makes sense. I've essentially ignored the draft when it came to ways I wanted to bring women down off the pedestal. I never thought this would be presented as a solution before eliminating the draft altogether would. I mean I never would've believed this would be how they repair that inequality... it's completely floored me, we don't even need the draft (I thought we didn't, at least).

I've focused more on what needs to be changed in the workplace, family court, and laws regarding rape and domestic violence that regularly hurts men. But knowing that so many men are on board with this bill has me feeling this nonsensical kind of "betrayal" almost... because I've felt like I was on the same side with men until now.

I suppose a lot of the fear I have also comes from the fact that for some reason, the powers that be apparently still find the draft necessary. So necessary in fact, that they're adding women. It makes me worry about what's coming that we may not be aware of.

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I'm not happy because I like the idea of women being drafted and being killed in combat. This would suck and be tragic, which is exactly what it is when the same thing happens to man. Instead I'm happy because this is an unpopular opinion which is now being forced on all women regardless of their opinion on equality. As far as I know this is one of the first times that an unfun/unpopular responsibility has been put on to women and hopefully will be the beginning of either actual equality or the death of this idea that feminist are allowed to just ask for free shit without needing to contribute anything back.

You are stuck in cross fire, and for that bit I'm sorry but its not going change the part where I think this is a fucking fantastic thing, because now, as far as I can tell now women are stuck in the same situation as I am in. So now that we're stuck in this situation what can we do? Get rid of the draft because if we can't find enough people to fight for a war then we don't have any business starting that war.

Notice how Gender had nothing to do with that? That's what equality is like. That's why I'm happy.

[–]SurlyTurkey 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree that it will be completely worth it if it eliminates the draft. I'm sure there are a lot of men and women who are happy the draft exists, but it's always terrified me. Not for myself, but for all the men in my life that I adore and couldn't live with the idea of them getting captured, tortured, killed. My husband wanted to join the military and I begged him not to, because even though I know soldiers come back all the time, I still can't help but look at it like a death sentence, whether it kills you physically or it kills you mentally.

So naturally, you can probably guess that I think the death sentence is even more prominent for women because we're just generally weaker, slower, and likely less mentally equipped to survive in combat. I feel like this was the worst solution they possibly could've come up with. Instead of abolishing the draft, just double the population it'll hang over? Ridiculous.

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we'll be sending the average every day woman, we'll be sending women who have always preferred to adhere to gender roles, submit to their husbands, etc. Women who never wanted any part in this madness.

I have always considered myself an MRA, but now I'm having trouble understanding what you guys want. I thought you were angry because women were trying to become "more like men". I thought you were angry because you wanted ladies to be ladies, but now you're celebrating this absolutely idiotic idea.

I'll say this again. You're an idiot. We're angry because of the bullshit you spew. If you're still confused, see above.

The average, self-respecting woman (or person) is tired of this crap. "We" don't want woman submitting to their husband or acting like ladies. "We" just don't want more idiots perpetuating their stupidity.

[–]SurlyTurkey 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Then I suppose you aren't a member of the you guys I was talking to if you think your mission has always been about equality down the board. That isn't the impression I get from the average feminist or MRA. Both have always seemed to acknowledge mental, emotional, and physical differences between genders, but want to force/legislate "equality" in places it doesn't, and can never, make sense.

For example, I've always agreed with MRA's that "equal pay for equal work" is unreasonable, because women typically can't push the same productivity that a man can. But now these same men who are perfectly happy to acknowledge that are saying "Oh but I totally think the average woman can hold up in war!" I've also always agreed that if a woman's going to bear children and take maternal leave to stay with them, her employer shouldn't be at her mercy in terms of pay or guaranteeing her job back. I've railed against abortion, the family court system, and everything else that puts a woman at an advantage over a man, while maintaining a reasonable view of what the genders are capable of, and the rights they're entitled to.

I don't know how to make my stance clearer, and like I've said repeatedly, this will be a huge accomplishment if it eliminates the draft entirely. But feel free to get out whatever you need to get out.

[–]Ozzyo520 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

You'd be hard pressed to find MRA people who don't support women in the draft. I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of MRA and feminists. Both generally support equality.

For example, I've always agreed with MRA's that "equal pay for equal work" is unreasonable, because women typically can't push the same productivity that a man can.

They don't think this. You're wrong. A vast majority of people support equal pay and benefits.

I've railed against abortion, the family court system, and everything else that puts a woman at an advantage over a man, while maintaining a reasonable view of what the genders are capable of, and the rights they're entitled to.

Abortion is more complex and controversial from a equality standpoint but I don't think a majority of men who support abortion don't support a woman's rights over her own body.

Family court system - equality is about equality. For everything really. I don't think you'll find most people trying to strip rights and protections. Only to level the playing field.

I don't know how to make my stance clearer, and like I've said repeatedly, this will be a huge accomplishment if it eliminates the draft entirely. But feel free to get out whatever you need to get out.

I don't know how to make it any clearer to you. A huge majority of people don't want women catering or being subservient to their husband. That's just ignorant. If you feel that way then you're ignorant. What the fuck kind of world do you want to live in?

Something tells me you don't have the life experience to see the flaws in your thinking. Or you're the product of that mindset, which works for you. Up until the point it doesn't any more.

Anyone advocating for the mindset you have is terrifying. Women deserve equality. The same way other races or religions do. You're literally against that. Because they're a woman. You're a cancer to the modern world. Military standards do not need to be different based on gender. Woman should be drafted, if needed, and should be able to enter combat roles if they choose. Even SF and Ranger units. The physical fitness standard should not be adjusted for sex.

It's 2016, wake the fuck up.

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Title	Not this much equal rights! Xpost
Author	higs87
Upvotes	2868
Comments	316
Date	June 18, 2016 11:06 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PussyPassDenied
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/pussypassdenied/comments/4oqs0q/not_this_much_equal_rights_xpost/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PussyPassDenied/not-this-much-equal-rights-xpost.947130 https://theredarchive.com/post/947130

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