On addiction

newliferestart · 2016-05-23T20:42:48+00:00

Fantastic post. Did you notice that our society is run by addictions? Everyone has one. I think addictions like gaming, drugs, porn or facebook and many more are given to people just to keep us busy and distracted from what really matters... our real problems. We live in a virtual world, we care about what X superstar musician does and we don't even know him personally, his actions will never influence our life. Or play that stupid video game that isn't real and it doesn't give anything good for your life. Or even worse.. masturbate to porn. We must stay in reality! Instead of learning something new you are numbed by addictions.

misterbadattitude · 2016-05-23T21:39:28+00:00

I know I am sensitive to addictions, used to be a gamer, watched movies and smoked weed all day every day. I procrastrinated a lot and other areas suffered. Even though I enjoyed it at the time it was more escapism from reality...

until reality hit me several times until I reached rock bottom. I lost a lot of good friendships, had financial debt, my mental and physical health declined and then one day as I was really struggling I fucking had enough of it and did a 180 degree turn. Essentially I gave up everything and then only decided to focus on those areas which actually meant something. I started doing productive things with my passion of music, enter the gym do fitness and boxing and started to go after a career. It might have been small steps back then.. but compare me to 1.5 years ago and I changed way beyond what I could think of. The thing is if you throw enough shit against the wall, something will eventually stick. Plant the seed today and give it water every day and in a few years you have got a beautiful tree.

bowie747 · 2016-05-24T00:25:03+00:00

Notable mentions to serotonin as well.

Dopamine and serotonin are supposed to be rewards for hard work. For example getting a good grade in a test, or sleeping with that girl who you've graciously courted for the last 2 months, or finishing a huge woodworking project. Specifically, dopamine is associated with long-term rewards while serotonin is associated with short-term pleasures.

Our brains are designed to create positive feedback for good behaviour. Thus causing us to perpetually create and work hard. When we acquire these rewards or pleasures without any hard work, we are fucking up our brains hardwiring. We're telling our brains that we can attain pleasure without hard work. Our brains natural reaction is to lose motivation, because if we don't need to work hard then why should we?

The chemical brain doesn't realise that over long periods of time these cheap pleasures will become boring. Those drugs, that porn, that fast food. Each time we consume these products, we need to consume more to experience the same pleasure spike. Eventually the magnitude of consumption required becomes unreasonable or unattainable, or the subject is too fucked up to continue. At this point, our motivations and drives are at their lowest. This IMO is a major contributor to our obscene levels of mental illness in 2016.

In order to maintain healthy reward pathways we must work hard, above all else. Enjoy the simple pleasures while you can, and work your ass off to achieve those huge pleasure spikes and you'll be fine.

plusninety · 2016-05-23T23:55:18+00:00

Great post.

I used to be heavily addicted to Dota2. After a good game, I got drunk on dopamine. It was such a huge feeling of satisfaction that it didn't compare to any previous experiences.

I was an advocate of moderation and I mocked the people who quit completely but I was wrong.

My mission in life now is to treat my brain only to simple, natural pleasures.

This is gold. I agree that keeping the dopamine spikes low is key to mental and physical health. If all the things you eat and drink are high in sugar & fat, you won't be able to appreciate many different tastes the nature has to offer and you will have to work extra hard to lose weight.

When I watched the Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee episode with Larry David, I was very surprised. Larry David, who is worth 800 million, said he didn't drink coffee. He took one sip of the coffee and he was shocked. He said "I can't believe this is how people live".

It took a very long time for me to understand the wisdom in that. I don't drink sodas and I don't eat fried stuff but I think it will take a very long time for me to reduce my dopamine spikes below coffee level. Though in Larry's case, I'm sure the complete financial security is helping.

Reastruth · 2016-05-24T02:14:14+00:00

I vote to make this a sticky

JeanValjean197o · 2016-05-24T01:26:27+00:00

What you are referring to is Operant Conditioning.

In your case what's at play is both positive and negative reinforcement.

Positive reinforcement in that you get an immediate reward for playing games and eating pizza.

Negative reinforcement in that you eliminate activities that you don't want to do by playing games and eating pizza.

There is also punishment. For instance, decreased health, obesity, failed relationships, loss of job or lack of promotion, bad grades, etc.

The kicker here is that all the rewards of playing games and eating pizza are immediate but all the punishments happen later and the rewards of working out, improving social game etc. also come later.

In operant conditioning the closer the reward to the activity the more powerful the association and thus conditioning is.

The same works for procrastination. Procrastination has both positive and negative reinforcement in that you can do something more pleasurable right now and put off something onerous until later, respectively. And the punishment of anxiety for not have completed projects and tasks may be extreme but is usually days or even months down the road and therefore won't be strongly associated with its cause: procrastination.

The question is: what do we do about it?

First, we have to recognize what is happening and then resolve to remove the obstacles in our path.

This is why having goals is so important. We can still play games and eat pizza, but we must do it as a reward for working out and getting projects done.

We also have to learn to reward ourselves when we do the things we are supposed to do.

Parents can do a lot to change their children's behavior by rewarding good behavior or by rewarding good grades. It's one thing to tell them to study but to sit down with them each day, discuss what is expected of them and devise a plan to help them reach their goals and then reinforce and reward them along the way is a far better success plan.

However, as adults we don't always have someone in our lives to do this and if we do they may not even know how to do it themselves.

That's why having goals that are important to you are so essential.

wanderer1976 · 2016-05-24T01:38:41+00:00

"No one can be a slave of two masters, since either he will hate one and love the other, or be devoted to one and despise the other..." Mathew 6:24 Holman Christian Standard Bible.

You experienced that up close. As a slave to your own dopamine and your own animalistic desire to get that next fix, and you came to despise that master. Most don't ever get that far.

This OP is an excellent post.

PaperStreetVilla · 2016-05-24T03:33:22+00:00

abdada has great insight into this. his posts on low reward behaviours are probably right up your alley, anyone who is relating to this kind of narrative.

RedditAdminsSuck_88 · 2016-05-23T22:55:26+00:00

Good post, the only thing I have ever been addicted to is food. I stayed away from drugs, alcohol, porn, and other addicting behaviors, but food is what got me. Food got me because you don't view it as bad.

I played football in college, but came in at a lean 150 pounds as a freshman. My coaches basically forced food down my throat, feeding me 3 times a day + a "snack", a "snack" usually consisted of something like an entire medium pizza, 2 Chick Fil A Sandwiches and Waffle Fries, or a Footlong Sub from Quizno's and Chips. I ate like a king for 5 years to gain weight. It was hard gaining weight because my metabolism was so good, so I was eating all the time. Got up to 195 pounds my senior year.

I graduated college in 2011, but didn't change the way I ate. My metabolism remained strong so I was always eating and yet gaining no weight or losing weight. The only reason I didn't eat more was because of the cost. But one day, the switch flipped and my metabolism went away. In November of 2014, I weighed 173 pounds. In July of 2015, I weighed 205 pounds. I gained 32 pounds overnight. Problem was I ways always hungry. I'd eat a shitload of food, like an entire pan of hamburger helper, or an entire large pizza, and still be hungry. The more I ate, the more I wanted.

I finally realized my metabolism was no longer what it was, and I was fat, when I took a video of me jumping off a high dive at a waterpark. When you get fat you don't even realize it looking in the mirror every day. It's a video of yourself that gets you. I realized I had a food addiction and started to slowly reverse it. First I just practiced portion control, then learning how to eat and enjoy whole, cleaner foods, then intermittent fasting, then went full LeanGains in January. Now I am back down to 158 pounds, almost 50 pounds lost from last July.

The thing is I still haven't overcome the addiction. I still long for unhealthy fatty fried foods that I used to eat all the time. I haven't had a cheat day in nearly 2 months, and its still a battle. It just takes total mental toughness and discipline to muscle through it.

The best thing to do is never let your self fall into addiction to begin with, but for many of us that ship has sailed. Being a man, in my opinion, is being able to control your impulses and desires, no matter how gripping they are.

Niko_Choski · 2016-05-23T21:31:40+00:00

You can never simply remove an addiction. Most people replace them with things that are healthy initially.

From cigarettes to eating. From eating to excessive working out. From working out to injections to body dysmorphia.

In AA and other addiction groups they tell you, you must first admit you have a problem. The problem is really your nature - you as a human being are predisposed to addictive and potentially catastrophic long term behaviours. You are addicted to the dopamine spike in your head. What one man must first do before cold turkeying and all of that shit - is reduce the spike. Reduce the level at which the spike gives him some sort of effect. And instead of having the one activity - have many that make him feel good. Don't overworkout - workout. Don't overeat - eat appropriately. Don't overfuck - fuck Don't masturbate to porn all day - masturbate every once in a while.

Get your brain used to the spikes - make them frequent but from different stimuli. It is true that you become a slave to your addictions, but every human is. The point is to control your contribution to the dopamine spike that controls you.

tc

elevul · 2016-05-24T09:07:52+00:00

Why was this removed? I didn't finish reading it.

dracolius · 2016-05-23T22:30:59+00:00

One of the best things I've seen here.

When I was younger I got so depressed I wanted to die. Part of my problem was knowing I was an addict for life. At some point I had to accept that being an addict is better than being dead or I wouldn't still be here.

All that said, my greatest days are either:

when I'm denying myself
appreciating indulgence more because I've been denying myself

My body has shown me in great detail exactly how right Seneca was all too many times. Overdoing it will hurt you. More than you think.

revtheracecar · 2016-05-24T08:53:29+00:00

This was literally the best post I've probably read on this sub in the past two months and it gets fucking removed? Why?

focusedmofo · 2016-05-24T02:05:56+00:00

I was an alcoholic by 15. I was an iv heroin user at 18. For the last 5 years it has been a roller coaster of shame and fear with a few critical momments of peace and serenity.

Living under bridges ain't no fun

I want to be able to stay clean so much. I get 5 months and some money in the bank and girls compiling at me and I go right back to it.

I know that if I use I am going to end up fucked. I buy into the lie that it will be better this time, that I can manage my use age and still function.

It has been hard for me to stay honest with myself to the fact that left to my own devices, I will junkie tuck myself back to living under a bridge, broke and in agonizing withdrawal.

SubliminalPepper · 2016-05-24T02:27:52+00:00

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/17021-society-of-addiction-capitalism-dopamine-and-the-consumer-junkie This is a very long article that talks about consumer addiction, but well worth the read if you have some time.

DAEHateRatheism · 2016-05-24T18:54:33+00:00

If you want to get more dopamine from cucumbers you could try sticking them up your butt.

play_time_is_over · 2016-05-25T00:51:36+00:00

This is why I quit porn, video games and dumped my gf.

Having sex regularly with your gf will eventually be like masturbating.

I did everything TRP told me to do and I locked down a hot gf who put out 2-3 tines a week regularly, why was I so unhappy?

Because I had 0 goals. I was playing games all day, using my gf as a fleshlight and watching porn in the days inbetween.

We all chasing the TRP lifestyle for the pussy and the glory but really the journey is the reward itself.

My life is devoid of pleasure at the moment. No games, no porn, no fast food, no sex and only 1 orgasm a week.

Yet this week I'm grading in martial arts - Ive reduced my bf% by 5%. Im learning how to lift properly - and I've got a company finincially interested in my uni project - and already had board member suggest I apply for his company .

Pleasure is overrated - success is where it's at.

idgotapsaff · Tue May 24 0:16:25 2016 UTC

Nice post! Went through a period of depression myself after graduating and before getting a job (about 8 months). It's tough to pull yourself out of that hole especially with everyone chirping in your ear and putting you down when they think they're trying to help.

1 year on everything is going good. I am still building that psyche back up again to what it was before however. Is there anything you've came across about mental well being that you could recommend books wise? I want to keep on top of things so I don't fall into that trap again.

hipfash3 · 2016-05-24T05:03:42+00:00

Thanks for writing this. I had a sinking feeling throughout the day and after reading this I realized it was my binge on porn had caused all that sudden depression.

slutzombie · 2016-05-24T05:23:47+00:00

pleasure unwoven is a great documentary that explains addiction far better than I'd ever been able to comprehend

Xemnas81 · 2016-05-24T06:07:26+00:00

Great post. Dopamine dysregulation is a less well known cunt of a phenomenon than it should be.

vegamenian · 2016-05-25T00:52:02+00:00

I walk outside and look at the clouds and literally feel a surge of happiness and energy flow through me...

It's amazing how the simplest things can make us so happy. I used to smoke cannabis concentrates every day to feel "alive". Now I feel high when I'm sober. When you love your life, when you have goals, are fit and look good, have good friends, good family, etc., drugs, video games, t.v, all lose their place. The appeal vanishes, and comes back in places you wouldn't expect to find it.

legion327 · 2016-05-23T21:48:37+00:00

Goddamn that was well written. I tip my hat to you sir.

alpha-secretase · 2016-05-24T00:57:28+00:00

This is a sad fact. Individuals peddle euphoric bliss for pennies and we are robbed of millions. My college professor used to say "Students have changed, they use to find my subject much more interesting and devoted more time and effort to their studies". That's because there is so much competing for their attention professor. People don't know what to do, pay attention to your lecture or send a 15 second snap-chat and anxiously wait for a response. Snap-chat's high beats your lecture's high.

So, we have entered a twilight, where knowledge is accessible to everyone and anyone, but controlling your attention has become the new challenge. What will you give your time too? Will it be worth it? How much of your life will you spend on something?

The truth is we have the privilege and accessibility to become masters of anything, experts on anything, innovators of anything, yet we choose what is easy. Never has any generation before had the privilege and resources we have.

So lets give'em hell boys.

Edit: Spelling

trptwerp · 2016-05-24T00:21:07+00:00

Speaking of malleable brains, I'm still 17.
Are there any activities I should be doing or should not be doing to ensure best brain fitness? Being a male, do I still have time to mold my brain?

Also I do not own videogames and I masturbate but not often and not to porn.

Kryonixc · 2016-05-24T03:30:18+00:00

This is an incredible post. I'm going through the same "obstacles" in life, hooked on adrenaline and dopamine from alcohol, drugs, one-night stands, video games, junkfood etc.. I once had an internet malfunction so I had no internet for that day. I felt suddenly free, and accomplished so much in mere 4 hours. I say, If we want to change, it's in your minds and hearts and hands to do so but it won't be easy. Fuck no

trpbox · 2016-05-24T03:41:51+00:00

Potentially useful tip: Psychiatrists generally don't consider an addict fully "cured" if the addiction is merely swapped for another one. However, doing the swap is incredibly easy! While you might not be "cured", you can immediately begin mitigating or removing the negative aspects the original activity. This can be a useful tool for committing to going cold turkey in the original activity, and avoiding relapsing because of the empty time on your hands.

Note: in my personal experience the "meta" parts of your addiction will be transferred (the intensity of the compulsion for habits), so keep that in mind - you will still have to admit to yourself that you're an addict, even if you swapped smoking weed all afternoon for working out.

Example: swap compulsive refreshing of social media for refreshing of news outlets. You get bored of it a lot faster because small changes don't continuously trickle in, and what you see (sometimes) isn't useless garbage. To your brain it doesn't matter, it wasn't actually interested in what your friends are doing.

LexisNexiss · 2016-05-24T04:36:10+00:00

Very true- totally understand those vices. Coffee, Dip, pron, alcohol and drugs obvi are the main ones. I've cut them all out starting 2012 (one at a time, the alcohol was up and down). Now I don't even want a drink and have moved in w a girl who doesn't drink either really. We're not perfect but it's a a trade I would make again to rid those vices. Dip was the worst one...took while to get over + some depressive episodes afterwards

Psychoptic · 2016-05-24T05:26:56+00:00

This coincides perfectly with the new sticky on the epicurianism sub. I highly recommend that reddit for any red pillers looking to discuss this philosophy of educated self-control.

Very effective post - it's always motivating to see red pill truths put into a more personal light.

Destroyer8769 · 2016-05-24T07:19:33+00:00

I have often thought about this when I'm starting up a game, I'm trying to stop, or do something more productive like starting or working on a business, but GTAV just seems more fun. I realized, the stuff I mainly enjoy doing in GTAV (driving, flying, customising cars and pretending to be rich) I could do in real life if I worked hard enough and made a successful business. However, I am only 15 so video games aren't as bad as if I was 30, and I still get all my exercise and school work done.

mananlak · 2016-05-24T17:58:47+00:00

Holy shit this is fascinating. Do you have a source about developing resistance to dopamine, and consequently becoming depressed?

maranble14 · 2016-05-24T18:57:00+00:00

The first 10 lines of this post really hit home for me. Thank you for opening my eyes to the unhealthy lifestyle I have been leading recently. This has really instilled a motivation within me to change my ways. I am still young, so I should be able to break myself of these unhealthy habits with time (hopefully).

Care_Asthma · 2016-05-24T19:31:55+00:00

Yes, addiction is highly problematic and is generally not conducive to red pill lifestyle and philosophy. However: breaking an addiction takes time. A long time.

I used to drink a significant amount - daily, at least a few beers or drinks - and smoke marijuana, also daily. I thought I was 'edgy' and cool because of it. After humiliating myself enough times during parties or whatever over the course of years, I decided I had had enough. I am now almost a year and a half completely sober, and working as a drug and alcohol counselor.

You'd be amazed at how much you can not only change your life, but your perception of yourself. However, as mentioned, these changes come gradually and with diligence and patience.

We are all addicted to some degree or another. Try to have your addictions be things like lifting and pussy.

verify_account · 2016-05-24T21:53:54+00:00

My mission in life now is to treat my brain only to simple, natural pleasures. It's learning to appreciate things like cucumbers more every day.

Or you could take the harder route and learn to enjoy things IN LIMITED QUANTITIES ALSO KNOWN AS MODERATION.

Going cold turkey may work but it's a cop out. Learn to enjoy things in moderation like a normal functioning human being.

DarkRedTwist · 2016-05-25T03:08:14+00:00

Wow, absoutely brilliant post. Your life is not so far from mine. My life has been a similar strew of addictions that for such a long time made me feel like a piece of shit no matter what. I have never posted here before. But I must mention meditation here.

Just fucking do it. Not tomorrow. Now. Its not new age and its not bullshit. It is the most brilliant way, to silence that self-hate voice. Please break the chains. Stop being a slave. Meditate.

RedPillSpookyGhost · 2016-05-25T09:00:45+00:00

addiction is a substitute. you substitute your natural dopamine release source for another. instead of working hard, loving your family, loving your partner you do drugs, fap to porn, play videogames, eat sugar. addiction is not a problem, it's a solution. it's a bad solution, a shitty one, the equivalent of using tape to fix your toilet. but it's a solution, not a problem. the problem is the lack of human interaction and love, the problem is the lack of things that make you release that fucking dopamine. so people try what they can, and addiction works. it's shitty, it can ruin your life hard depending on what you're addicted to, but it works. you need dopamine, you get dopamine.

fighting addiction is not fighting drugs, porn, etc. it's fighting the lack of things in your life that give you dopamine. this is why meditation, lifting, and discipline are always highly suggested activities in this subreddit. start doing stuff that is good for you and eventually you won't feel the need to find another solution.

for reference check the rat park experiment. or the study of the usage of heroin by U.S. soldiers during the vietnam war.

RPFlame · 2016-05-25T09:29:09+00:00

I read about gaming addictions, as someone who played them since I was 4. Can't blame the parents though since back then nobody knew a shit about what they're doing to the kid, other than "he seems to like it so it's ok". I also can't play the victim because unlike the majority of women and blue pillers, I consider myself a responsible adult, not a child or an animal.

Turns out, what made me "addicted" to gaming wasn't just the dopamine hit, but also the feeling of being good in them, being important to my team and hated by the opposite team.

If women have a natural tendency to nurture and motherly impulses that drive them to love kids, kittens and puppies more than loving their man, then men have a natural tendency to feel important by being good to what they're doing (competitiveness). Which also explains why, in your example, the loss must be experienced after a string of victories. A loss experienced right off the bat actually works the opposite way, it might also lead you to spent money towards victory (as seen in the mobile game structure).

I've spent some of my day playing Overwatch, and I also think that when I experience a defeat that's when it's easier to close the game. And this effect is also exploited for profit by candy crush and co. mobile games. I encourage everyone to watch the video, if they already haven't.

I tried kicking them off for good but my brain almost always gets a withdrawal migraine after a few days, similar to how I felt when I was quitting smoking. Quitting smoking for that matter was much easier, since it's a habit that I started much later in my life, compared to video games.

The best method to quit video games isn't "all out cold turkey". Just as you said, you cannot decide to start a diet and eat healthy meals in a full stomach. You must start small and iterate.

I said to me that I'll play video games after 6 pm. Next week it'll be after 6:30, then 7 and so on. It's like adding weights/repetitions to your lifting routine. You add when it's easy, you decrease when it's not.

And if you fall into the "I got exposed into gaming very hard when I was a kid" camp, you have to be on guard for the rest of your life.

Firespit · 2016-05-25T13:54:15+00:00

http://remembering-ug.blogspot.de/2012/08/passages-from-mind-is-myth_3889.html

BenOfMahogany · 2016-06-14T22:35:54+00:00

How the hell do you get over your addictions when they aren't that bad or life impacting? Like I'm definitely addicted to weed, masturbation, and (to a lesser extent) video games but I don't spend a shitload of time doing these things. I get what I need to done, the problem is I don't go for anything more. I'm kind of in a stalemate with life.

BigGreekMike · 2016-08-01T20:55:20+00:00

"If I hate myself, who is the I, and who is myself?"

This is everything right here, put it on the letterhead

TheElite3740 · 2016-05-24T00:24:18+00:00

Big up the post, just as I snort go to hit some cocaine (alone, I took it at a party recently now want it constantly) I think let's look to TRP front page addiction, fucking spot on man.

Since I finished exams I've gone from dopamine source to source, drinking with the boys, nights out, parties, masturbation, cannabis, gaming, shit food. When it should be reading, exercise etc.

To use a lyric I like that sums up societies addictions "Get that dope I mean dopamaine" ie it's dopamine that's addictive, what we crave, not the drugs

Luckily we can fix this

ex_addict_bro · 2016-05-24T06:55:54+00:00

Shitpost for the feelz. Reported.

AtillaTheTough · 2016-05-24T08:45:07+00:00

Porn, fast food, video games. The loserdom trifecta affecting many of the western men (?) these days.

pray_4_love · 2016-05-23T21:30:37+00:00

Moderation bro, that's all it takes.

Moneyshot427 · 2016-05-23T23:51:26+00:00

What are your guys' thoughts on weed? I'd imagine negative but would like to hear the reasoning. I guess like I'm home for the summer from college, lifeguarding so I'll see how it goes but it'd be feasible that I'd be smoking ~3 times a week with friends. Is the dopamine boost bad even if I can still stay on top of things? If I keep hitting the gym and generally avoid other things like pepperoni pizzas (which yes is hard especially while high but have experience doing it) and video games, you think it's still as bad? Any other advice appreciated too for a youngin

tandemlee · 2016-05-24T00:40:04+00:00

Brings to mind a great quote

"One who rushes madly after inordinate desire, runs the risk of encountering destruction and death" - Imam Ali (the ultimate alpha)

Iwillbebacknonstop · 2016-05-23T20:49:25+00:00

What's your gamer tag and do you still have Xbox, Rainbow6 siege is my favorite game, good teamwork.

It's funny you realize how steep the skill curve is at that game.

When I first started playing I was amazing then I started to get matched up with other amazing players who played exactly like me.

The high tiers of that game are similar to life. It's easy to get into and to be better than a majority of 70% of the people, but those last levels everyone knows what you do maybe more.

Once you reach the mountain that is when you can see people on the moon.

[deleted] · Mon May 23 23:22:06 2016 UTC

[permanently deleted]

a_nus · 2016-05-24T00:37:42+00:00

I have a friend who went on some sort of Buddhist retreat. People there spent one whole month doing nothing but eating simple meals (white rice and vegetables) and meditating. I suspect this type of abstinence from everything is therapeutic in that it lowers your tolerance to every source of pleasure you're used to in everyday modern life. This would be analogous to a tolerance break from a drug. That drug being regular life.

When he came back he said everything was more vibrant, and he found a lot more pleasure from simple things he overlooked before. The real challenge is maintaining that outlook by not abusing pleasurable activities. You have to keep that tolerance in check, or else you'll risk depression.

Exoski · 2016-05-24T08:33:17+00:00

Thank you so much for this. Really hit me hard. Glad to know you've improved.

Title	On addiction
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	690
Comments	157
Date	May 23, 2016 8:16 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/4kpym9/on_addiction/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/on-addiction.59345 https://theredarchive.com/post/59345

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