Undergoing self-improvement - How do you change who you are in front of people who have known you for a long time?

maxd · 2012-02-25T00:05:10+00:00

This isn't an answer you're going to want to hear. It takes a long time, and if you do it honestly no one will notice. It took me 10 years. And I fucking rock now.

You're faking it till you make it. It takes a while before everything else catches up.

Long story short, you can't fake it to people you know. You were leveraging the fact that new people didn't know you, so you created your own frame work. Trying that same routine with old people doesn't work because they know you.

The reason you feel phony is because you are currently.

Welcome to inner game, changing yourself to match your external appearance. Becoming the person you want to be.

Takes a long time, good luck!

maxd · 2012-02-24T20:38:02+00:00

[permanently deleted]

thistooshallparse · 2012-02-24T22:17:49+00:00

There are many aspects to this. First of all, a lot of people don't want to believe that self-improvement is possible. This is because they use fatalism as a convenient cop-out to stop thinking about the failures in their own lives. These people will resent any attempt you make to change.

The next category of people are people who don't have a problem with self-improvement per se, but are quite happy with things the way they are - a good example of this would be someone who is higher than you in your current social heirarchy - they are going to resent it and resist if you try to start acting differently.

Your family can often fall into this group too - their incentives around you are inherently conservative - they tend to share more of your risks than your successes, so they will usually caution against change.

The answer to your question is to be regargless of who you are around. You have to actually take the risk that some of them won't like the new you. They might find it phoney or not understand or resent it, but that's just the risk you have to take in order to move on at this stage of your life, because otherwise they will drag you back.

You need to just do what you want to do without reference to the other people. Don't do it to impress them with your new pickup skills, but don't hide those skills to preserve your existing relationship, either. Just do what you would do if you out with a new friend or on your own. Some of your friends will be fine, some will be surprised but get over it, some might not. That's life.

Big_Gay_Mike · 2012-02-24T20:25:08+00:00

This is an incredibly relevant topic that I've never really seen approached before. I hope someone can give some insight.

PyouA · 2012-02-24T21:24:02+00:00

Involve other people. If you are walking around and making connections with a bunch of girls this is really valuable to all your friends (especially the ones better with girls who will know how to take advantage of this). Let's say you meet two cute girls, get your buddy over there to take one off your back. This includes people who aren't great with girls - I will make a good effort to hook my friends up who aren't the best on their feet all the time, everyone (those who do and don't do well) respects me for this. It's just a commendable thing to do.

Unless your friends are complete assholes, they will have no problem following your lead if you have a good hook up for them. I certainly wouldn't. Who is going to shit on you when you are getting them laid?

I'm not saying to not be interested in yourself as well, don't be a fucking loser and do all the work only to pawn off girls to your friends to win approval. I'm just saying to take on more than you could handle, then get your friends involved instead of letting some of the connections you made go to waste.

I got good with girls in college and was never too great in high school. When I came home and started getting cute girls talking and started helping my friends out. They had no problem with it.

They only way you are going to piss someone off is if you are getting laid like a rug and think you are better than them and leave them in the dark. Get laid, but involve your friends when you can and they will have no problem with you.

Fred_Flintstone · 2012-02-24T22:02:25+00:00

They will instinctively resist positive change in you, unless they are incredibly comfortable in their own shoes (very few men are).

Men will fight any potential rise in social hierarchies which affect them.

You may lose a few friends in the process. I did. It wasn't the fact that I had changed a bit - my behaviour towards them remained the same. Friends who are "judgemental" and insecure are the worst for coping with it.

Dont deny that you;ve changed, but avoid talking about it. Its really tricky, tbh...

2012-02-24T22:04:04+00:00

This is a perfect example of why sarging dolo is better than sarging with wings (provided you know the wings).

It's a LOT tougher to be fearless in front of people you know than it is to be fearless in front of strangers. Same exercise, heavier weight.

You've done it before if you've succeeded with strangers, just amp those testicles up a notch and be your new self in front of your friends. It'll end up being very liberating.

cammil · 2012-02-25T12:13:19+00:00

Actually, I disagree with some of the answers here. It does not necessarily take a long time, and it is not necessarily difficult.

The real question is, do you believe you are different? If you truly do, even the people that know you can catch up really quickly. It happens all the time. For example, when you meet a younger cousin that has just passed through puberty, or after their freshers' week, you can realise they have changed drastically, and you will adjust to the new them.

Here's the real problem: when your family or old friends react to the new you, their reactions will demonstrate their lack of belief in your new frame. This is where the problem can arise: you may then take this feedback as a sign that you are not this person, and immediately revert back to the old you.

The solution: you must be fully aware when you meet old acquaintances that this is a possibility. As soon as you notice that you are about to revert to your old self, stop for a moment. Then realise who you actually want to be, and carry on.

If you do this, you will find that people will accept this new you surprisingly quickly. I would guess in a matter of a few exchanges. You may need to do this again the next time you meet them, as they will have the old model of you stored in their minds. But, eventually it will stick across meetings.

Good luck!

swamy_g · 2012-02-24T21:15:17+00:00

Been there. Friends are essential, I love my guys. They're fun to be around. But what happens is that sometimes some of them just bitch and complain about lives. They don't challenge you. And when you try to something interesting, some of them look up to you but some of them will try to bring you down. Call it human behavior, but people don't like change. Avoid those people. And for people who look up to you now, help them. I've personally introduced a few of them to r/seduction. Everyone else will fade away in a few years.

bionikspoon · 2012-02-24T20:47:09+00:00

Maybe you could disappear for some period of time, come back as a new man.

kojopolis · 2012-02-24T22:04:22+00:00

if they make negative comments on your change in behavior they aren't friends, me personally i encourage and compliment change if it's positive, and am honest if it's negative, but there are definitely people who don't want to see you grow, whatever you do, let your actions don't speak, don't go telling people you've changed

metshower · 2012-02-25T00:27:15+00:00

I think you just need to get deeper with your friends emotionally, tell them you've been going through some positive mental changes, and they will be happy you are more outgoing, and kind of coming out of your skin. If you can't talk with your friends and have a real emotional connection on some of the same topics, then I think they are more "people that you know" than friends. This way, you may even get a deeper bond with one or more of your friends and they will provoke a more outgoing you and help sustain your new you.

navamaras · 2012-02-24T23:06:01+00:00

Change the way you see them. Are you, happier, satisfied and deeply in love with being alive? Become that person, or whoever you want to be, and know that a complete commitment to the best in you WILL change your perception of the world and what is possible.

gabriot · 2012-02-24T23:43:52+00:00

Seperate the haters from the true friends. Don't listen to the haters, they are happy with their PAINFULLY normal lives, too worried about what's "douchey" or not, to actually live they life they deep down inside want to live - and they WILL project it on you, we all have those types of people in our lives. Fuck em, they don't matter.

nycprowl · 2012-02-25T00:04:33+00:00

situational confidence. Right now you are playing the role that you assigned yourself to that group. It's tough to break roles like that (I struggle with it too from time to time, although bit different situation)

If they are true friends, it won't matter much to them. Friends see friends change so many times over the years and if they call you out just roll with it. Right now though the problem is in your head and you need to accept your new self.

arkitip · 2012-02-25T00:05:21+00:00

Fuck em that's how. If you better your self and they hold you back then fuck em.

2012-02-25T00:08:52+00:00

You have to get used to the idea that most of your ''friends'' don't care if you are alpha or beta. It's true. Most of the doubts you have about being your NEW SELF amongst these people comes from your OLD SELF. Your new, improved personality should not care if some people resist your change. You DO NOT DEPEND on their approval to change. This is just another point that will eventually ''click'' and you will realize that if you are comfortable with who you are, the people around you will.

DamonBlack · 2012-02-25T00:10:28+00:00

Your friends and family will resist at times. I've had to distance myself from many people because they could not accept the inner strength & resolve I was giving myself. Sadly, there are people in your life who benefit from your weakness, and cannot easily accept these changes.

dejust · 2012-02-25T02:21:21+00:00

Just be honest with them about your transformation. Tell them the truth (why you're doing it, who you want to become, etc). Pretending like nothing changed at all is just silly.

heroinahood · 2012-02-25T02:54:54+00:00

Goddamn! GODDAMN IT OP! You are literally describing my EXACT situation.

I've become so different over the last two years or so, I've learned to speak calmly and engage people in fun conversations, I've learned to talk to any girl or guy as if they were just a 5; yet around the people who have known me as the meek, nice nerd: my voice drops, my tone changes, my mind thinks different thoughts. I find myself saying childish, adorable things that I just can't control. The moment I walk into this house or meet a high school friend, it's like a poison in my lungs. I also lose motivation and concentration because of the toxic environment I walk into, even after being cheery and productive all day.

There is a lot of psychological manipulation and dysfunction that I grew up with that I am only becoming aware of now, and learning it is so very far from normal. Losers and failures shitting on any accomplishment you claim, insulting you if you show a glimpse of ambition. Stuck for now, though.

ClimbTREES · 2012-02-24T20:21:26+00:00

I'm in a similar situation. I am personally trying to just keep my new-ish frame and let the people around take notice of my shift gradually.

HellaSober · 2012-02-24T21:29:22+00:00

People act differently around different people. It's just a fact of life. If you don't like the way you act around a group, avoid situations where it matters. If you can't change your behavior around them at all, a compromise would be to still join them for a game of touch football/board games/video games but avoid hanging out around them when they are going somewhere more social and you want to meet new people.

If the behavior is worse because of how they treat you, then maybe they aren't your friends.

If you think they really are your friends but you want to change the way they see you so that you can feel more comfortable using your new behavior around them - bring a different girl around that you've closed but don't feel too bad about messing things up a few times you hang out with them if the setting is appropriate for that.

redditorfor16days · 2012-02-24T22:30:50+00:00

one step at a time. if someone pushes you around and laughs at you, be more witty and fuck up their little show.

there are guys that will come up to you and sort of grab you and jerk you around in a friendly manner. the two ways i handle this, based on how well i know the person, is to either say in a monotone, "oh, that's really a neat thing you're doing," or just start caressing their face all over their nose and eyes and forehead with my open palm.

when i was 13, my dad and brother used to get into arguments with me and i would flip out and yell. i realized that there was a point at which if i just controlled myself, 5 seconds later, they would flip out. you have deep-seated expectations of people you spend a lot of time around. you have to push through them.

when i was 19 and bettering myself, i realized that my group of friends at first would gang up on me to make me lose my cool. i didn't lose my cool, and they eventually accepted how i was.

you just have to constantly keep yourself together and make incremental changes in how you react to things people say and do.

Someoneoldbutnew · 2012-02-24T23:33:06+00:00

Fearlessly.

aaron_is_here · 2012-02-25T00:58:00+00:00

From my experience, just stay friends with your old friends [with old bad habits] but don't hang out with them as much. Hang out with them when they're at their best so you can be your best.

For example, I have a friend who's a downer when it comes to hanging out at bars or clubs. He's totally in his element when we do active sports stuff and that's something I can feed off of. I will not call him out to hang at a bar. When we do active things during the day, we can totally be real and have fun. At night, I hang with a totally different crowd. And I'm being real with both parties.

Be like a boss. Alway exude alpha-ness and feed off of other people's alpha-ness and at the same time return the favor. You help yourself by helping other people.

hazy_browns · 2012-02-25T02:02:07+00:00

By not giving a fuck.

BIGGIB · 2012-02-25T03:14:55+00:00

Try to separate from them as much as possible and focus on you. Let it become second nature for you so it doesn't feel phoney.

blinkyone · 2012-02-25T04:08:25+00:00

Denying change is a character flaw, it shows you cannot adapt to the world. If one day there was a mountain, then the next a crater, you may be shocked, but you cannot deny the existence of the crater and the lack of a mountain.

Friends by their nature improve you. Healthy relationships of all kinds are built on mutual growth. Anyone who tried to keep you where you are is trying to use you to comfort themselves about their own torpor. Cast those who do not want you to better yourself from your life and be happy to do so, for they are not friends.

There are many relationships that are comfortable but not healthy, and many friendships that are built on a tacit agreement that neither will push the boundaries too far. These relationships are codependent, they see you not changing, not striving or improving and it comforts them in their stagnation, it makes them feel right in this lifestyle. Fuck that. They can join you or stay behind, but they cannot keep you.

It is your choice, and not the world's, your friend's, or your parents. You changed. It is done. Remember that.

Bored · 2012-02-25T04:20:31+00:00

When you develop your game more, you'll realize that you're actually becoming more authentic.

DEEFORT · 2012-02-25T04:29:51+00:00

I was in this exact situation, except I wasn't worried about how my friends/family would judge me. You're changing for the BETTER so why are you worried? I went from really timid/hostile to being chill and friendly. People noticed, but they like it. Honestly, no one is going to judge you in a negative manner.

Since you said you're known for being quiet, you're most likely just paranoid about what people think about you. 99% of the time, they aren't judging you at all. Think about one of your friends that has changed their personality or character drastically. You would have never even noticed up until you really thought about it. This stuff happens daily.

PasDeDeux · 2012-02-25T06:14:15+00:00

I had a chat with a long time psychoanalyst/psychiatrist who I was interviewing and this exact idea came up. It's most classically seen when people go back and visit their family--they morph into old roles and methods of interacting, especially with their mothers. Your parents remember you and treat you as their child, not always as a fully formed adult.

I think this same phenomenon is what you're referencing with other people.

So clearly your question is how to deal with that?

I don't want to write too much, I'm a little tired and I fear that quantity will dilute my message.

We "broscience," to steal a term from /fit, the "inner game" process a little too much. There's a framework we create which revolves around the way we treat people, but it's especially focused on how we treat new people, people in social situations with a focus on pickup. That's how we learned. This framework is hard to translate to more complex interactions with people you know.

I, like many other people in this thread have mentioned, also went through a significant series of personality changes in college, culminating in a pretty darn confident and assured individual. I noticed that, as the change occurred, my friends group also changed as did some of my interests. These things are natural. The friends who I kept were accepting and helped precipitate some of my change.

I've noticed lately, now in graduate school in a different location, that it's possible to regress in the presence of really negative influences. I think that my solution is to remind yourself of who you want to be, how you want to act, what your goals are and how to achieve those goals, and why you are acting in a certain way. In a word, cognisance.

I hope that's helpful. I don't think there are simple answers. Good luck and keep your "frame" strong!

Bout_It_Bout_It · 2012-02-26T02:25:19+00:00

A bit harsh but this my take.

You met them and became friends with them when you were a different person. Now you are changing. It is natural that you'd lose some of them.

I have dropped friends before or at least curtailed the amount of time i spend with them. The last person it happened to was a nice guy who did not want the same things out of life as i did. I got tired of inviting him to stuff and trying to get him to go out.

Some friends are anchors to parts of your life that you have no use for anymore. Treat them accordingly.

2012-04-25T03:48:52+00:00

yes, u gotta get over it to dont hang w em as much if it bums you out, you know man? it helps if you guys share the same interests.

LookatmeIamapollo · 2012-02-24T21:21:39+00:00

Very slowly

dropkickoz · 2012-02-25T03:38:01+00:00

In 100 years we'll all be dead. I think I coined that, but I don't really care. It is what I live by and you should too. Be the man you want to be and fuck what people think. We'll be dead together for a long time.

thetompkins · 2012-02-25T04:37:25+00:00

I went through this long before ever finding Reddit, much less Seddit. The two biggest steps I took, looking back, were:

Understanding that it is often not "changing" yourself, but allowing the person you want to be to take over; and
Finding something to facilitate this takeover.

priestofdisorder · 2012-02-25T05:59:42+00:00

I am in this situation and the main idea i keep in mind is that they dont matter, why should you spend valuable time to people who don't care about you, just do what you feel like and treat them with RESPECT, people will allways be judging

texastim · 2012-02-25T08:38:11+00:00

Break your social agreements with the world You must destroy a relationship to make a new one Tell them the truth that will do it

formerdigguser · 2012-02-25T18:33:08+00:00

You could invite them over to your place before heading out to some bar/whatever or just for a pizza-evening. It shouldn't come of as fake if you are more open and show more energy in your own place. Should be easy to transfer that to other places in life.

butteredwaffles · 2012-02-24T23:16:09+00:00

have them call you out when you're resorting back to old social habits. They shouldn't dislike you for trying to change yourself.

Title	Undergoing self-improvement - How do you change who you are in front of people who have known you for a long time?
Author	giantpenguinman
Upvotes	167
Comments	72
Date	February 24, 2012 8:07 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/q4hnk/undergoing_selfimprovement_how_do_you_change_who/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/undergoing-self-improvement-how-do-you-change-who.1328839 https://theredarchive.com/post/1328839

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