What the hell is wrong with us? Why do we need all this stuff?

nycprowl · 2012-03-30T17:03:06+00:00

Lot of guys have trouble but never do anything about it, just the occasional hookup and then falling in love with the first girl who shows interest.
You're right, plenty of people have no problem at all... They may already have confidence and don't need anything else. 95% of picking girls up is straight up balls.
Some people feel more at ease around women than others. People with older sisters for example have been scientifically shown to be better with the opposite sex than those without.
The difference is you give a fuck to realize you could be better, and decide to act on it. I know people who are ok with women, but would like to get better... however instead of doing anything about it, decide to get another beer.

I have friends that are clueless about pick-up and from what I can tell have absolutely no game at all, yet they still manage to hook up and find a girl from time to time.

From time to time... probably not as often as they wish.

Why is it so much more difficult for me?

Probably because you are so caught up in pickup material and over analyzing shit, you're talking to a girl and worrying "OMG is this a shit test? A DHV? etc etc." and forgot the most important thing... have fun. I can say this because I've been there and fall back into it sometimes.

Pick up can be summed up very quickly.

Stop giving a fuck about what others think of you.
Have fun.
Talk and escalate with girls.

That's really all there is to it.

Ragas · 2012-03-30T16:59:21+00:00

[permanently deleted]

frogma · 2012-03-30T21:20:32+00:00

You do realize the average joe sleeps with 7 women in his lifetime, 7 thats it. And how many of those do you wana bet aren't even very good looking?

How many women you think the guy that gets even half way decent at pick up sleeps with? And the real pros, 100s 1,000s? Not to mention the higher quality.

And just the ability to pick a life mate who has everything you want, great personality and great looks, that's what I'm after. The majority of guys don't have that option, they settle for the best they can get. I know b/c I'm one of them that settled, got married to someone I shouldn't have, and now I'm divorced and back out there again. I'm part of this community b/c I don't plan to settle again.

testmypatience · 2012-03-30T20:52:02+00:00

Why is it hard?

It is because of how you become who you are. The phrase "You can't teach an old dog new trick" applies greatly here. When you are young the experiences / teachings / environment and the genetic background you are given makes up who you become when you are older. We are but habits and knowledge. Those habits and that knowledge is given to use by those things we have been around and have done.

So why it is so hard? Because you must destroy old habits that are so woven into the fabric of the rest of who you are that it scares the shit out of your subconcious and doesn't know how to implement these new concepts into the rest of yourself.

If you like working on cars this next part may make sense. Sometimes if you want to put an engine into a car that it isn't built to go into you will get matchup issues. So in order to fix that you have to make all sorts of new fabricated plates so that things match up. You may have to cut thing, weld new brackets in, etc. It is similar to when you rip out a chunk of who you were and add in new huge upgrades to make yourself a better version of yourself.

It is difficult because we as humans are built to wonderfuly. We adapt but even better yet we defend the shit out of who we are mentaly and physicaly.

That is why it is hard.

gabriot · 2012-03-30T23:23:48+00:00

I think a lot of us are from a similar demographic, including maybe 1 to all of the following:

A.) Tech related majors/jobs - no daily contact with women

B.) Introverts - none of this is natural to us

C.) People brought up in strict conservative religious environments that gave us a distorted view on reality and sex - now we are non-religious and having to instantly learn everything that others learned throughout college and high school.

Ragas · 2012-03-30T18:07:21+00:00

The community actually fucked me up when I first found out about it.

Before then I was just a naturally social, decent looking guy who could make friends with anyone. I would get decent success, even through cold approach at clubs, without even knowing really what I was doing. Then I discovered the community and I love reading and learning about stuff especially something that's soo related to everyday life.

So I started reading and trying to apply the stuff I learned. This wasn't the natural stuff that's around today but more the routine based stuff. (M3 model?) And it screwed me up hard for almost a year after I started trying to apply it. I was getting decent success before but it wasn't consistent and I couldn't always get the girls I wanted in the club. When I started trying to apply it I didn't know it at the time but I was needy. I was trying to get the girls to react to this new found knowledge I had and obviously that didn't work. I tried to be always high energy, even when I wasn't in the mood which came off as not congruent. As Tyler says the aspiring PUA is the only person in the world who wants validation from girls he's unattracted to.

But now after being in the community for some time and reading more of the natural stuff my game has come full circle. I get to date (or at least am getting closer) the girls I want and can approach even the hottest girls in the club and get consistent results with the average girl. Results aside I find the science in the community fascinating and applicable to real life. Much unlike the more "scientific" studies of attraction which we know don't really work. I like that type of pseudoscience (if you can call it that) more than the ivory tower studies in pickup and other areas (politics, philosophy) because it makes sense in real life.

And there is nothing wrong with us for working hard to make it happen. I agree most people here aren't reallllyyy effed up and starting for square one but even outside the community people are hooking up but not always with the type of people they want, not always without alcohol and many, many, many people can't approach a hot girl in a club.

2012-03-30T17:29:03+00:00

There's nothing wrong with you or anyone else here. The problem is usually getting the wrong ideas in our head like "you just gotta be nice to the girl and she will like you." Like if you grow up lonely then you're probably gonna have a fucked up mindset and pick-up can untangle all that shit in your head.

BearPaw_LikeAnIndian · 2012-03-30T18:53:48+00:00

In my opinion, I think many of us screw up because we have learned to look at getting women scientifically and we treat it like an algebraic equation. Let's say our final product is sex. The problem is we look at the whole process like a formula and if we don't get certain variables right then we assume that there is no way that we can get the product we desire.

For naturals or those who don't know game, but seem to get women from time to time. To them it doesn't really matter how they get to the final product. They calibrate appropriately.

Naturals:

1 * 9=Sex

3 * 3=Sex

4.5 * 2=Sex

With us we are too concerned about calibration. We think we have to have the right approach, get the right feedback, push, pull, neg, compliment, and now what could be a relatively simple formula has us second guessing if we have everything plugged in correctly.

So, though I've mastered nothing. I try to limit the questions I ask myself in field. When in set I simply ask myself, "What would Brad be doing now?" and immediately I'll tweak the little things based off that simple question. I'll correct my posture, or lean back, or grin a little more, speak with a deeper voice, hide my interest just a little bit, etc... No need for a formula.

Edit: Formatting

TrippAdvice1 · 2012-03-30T19:52:48+00:00

Most people can't admit they're not good at something. Those who can, come to Seddit and start living.

HelloHiHello · 2012-03-30T22:32:38+00:00

It's because we don't want just your "average dating life."

I don't think I'm only speaking for myself when I say I want a life of abundance – something that 90% of people never get to experience. True social abundance. True relationship abundance. Being surrounded by people you CHOOSE to surround yourself with, because you enjoy their company – you enjoy who they are.

A life where you don't have to be scared of a good looking girl. A life where you never need to ask yourself, "what if I'd gone and talked to her?"

This kind of life is NOT easy to get. It's hard for you because you're currently climbing the Everest of a sex life.

We're not taking the easy route. We don't want a girl every now and then. We don't want to just hook up at a bar. We want complete and total abundance. It's not easy, but it's worth it.

maugpet · 2012-03-30T16:46:29+00:00

Personally I don't have a lot of trouble picking up girls and I didn't before I looked into pick-up material but I wanted to be BETTER. It isn't really about me making up for something I lack, however I would like to become better at anything that I do.

1independentmale · 2012-03-30T17:05:44+00:00

I got into this community to study inner game concepts. Being on the tail end of a long and often emotionally abusive relationship, I needed the confidence boost. What I've read and put into practice has helped me immensely.

jimii · 2012-03-30T17:15:05+00:00

For me it was an extreme lack of self-confidence that stemmed from always being a 'shy' guy which then led to gaming addiction. That then led to becoming a social hermit.

And I doubt most people here NEED all these techniques. They just give you a better chance of bagging a pretty and interesting girl.

On top of that, the techniques help you in life in general. Fuck it. If most people don't want to study them, then that's their loss.

2012-03-30T17:54:00+00:00

I can only speak from personal experience, but for me it wasn't that I was unable to have girls interested in me. I had a few different girls come at me over the years even, though I wasn't really looking to get with those girls in particular so I never did.

Fuck it, I'll be honest: They weren't hot enough for my standards so I ignored their advances. A few girls I did want to get with also showed interest, but I didn't like the idea of just shooting the shit for hours over the course of a few weeks and hope she starts to want to go out with me

So now I'm studying seduction material. Not to take advantage of girls or "trick" them into going out with me, and least of all for just sex, but so that I can see a girl I think I'd like to spend some quality time with (in more ways than one) and actually be pretty confident that It'll happen

I'll tell you this much: You may not remember or realize this but there have been girls who thought about you as more than a friend, as someone they want to go out with, and maybe even some have fantasized about you

RedErin · 2012-03-30T19:24:28+00:00

It's all about self-esteem. We weren't raised to have confidence.

2012-03-30T19:53:13+00:00

Alot of the guys you talk about who never improve themselves that I know get girls, but ugly as shit girls or sometimes even average girls. I even knew a guy who married one. Its a "comfortable" marriage but not one with love. I don't want just any girl, I want an amazing girl in every way - looks, intelligent, personality. So yeh, I'm one of those guys you mention who originally could get the less attractive/average girls without any of this stuff - BUT I realized I didn't want to be avg in this and wanted to get the best. That's why I need some of this stuff.

Your doing this because being good with women is a skillset like any other. Some people are born better at math, some are better public speakers/more eloquent, some have better senses of humor, and some are just naturally better with women. Just because at first you aren't good at a skill doesn't mean you can't become good, it just means you need to workk at it and want it badly enough.

Guyonskis · 2012-03-30T21:13:33+00:00

I think I'm one of those guys. I have no game but I still get women. The problem is that I depend totally on the women with the guts to approach me. I feel like I don't have control over the situation so I admire you guys and your approach skills. In the end we both get women, but in your case it will be your choice of who and when and that's more valuable. I don't know about your friends, but I don't think we are so different and we both need this stuff. I've been with a lot of women, but it wasn't until last year that I picked up a girl on my terms. It felt so much better than any of the others!

Ragas · 2012-03-30T17:44:28+00:00

Pickup is a social science. Like all sciences, the facts existed before they were discovered. People have been learning and performing pickup informally throughout human history. We're just collaborating to speed up the discovery process.

Most guys never learn game and marry the first girl who will put up with their lousy attempts to impress her. Then they spend their entire lives putting up with that woman's bullshit, and enabling her to treat him like dirt in the process, because it's the only way they know to get sex and companionship.

Also, 80% of women are having sex with 20% of men. We're here to learn how to be in the 20%.

mongolinvader · 2012-03-30T19:47:50+00:00

Because you think it's hard.

PolishedIvory · 2012-03-30T20:31:34+00:00

There are a lot of people who will try and fail 100 times, and then hook-up on that 101st time.

The reason we can label ourselves "seductionists" or "PUA", etc. is because we're willing to close the gap. Fail 90%, improve some more, fail 70%, improve some more, fail 50%... etc.

Personally, I'd rather study and learn new methods than blindly doing it through trial and error. We have an advantage of knowing that we can get better, but as they say in the Matrix sometimes "ignorance is bliss."

Chakosa · 2012-03-30T21:35:08+00:00

Honestly, sometimes I think that the shit I pick up on here is hurting me more than it's helping me, because anything that doesn't arise naturally just causes incongruence.

I'm not naturally shy, have little to no AA, but sometimes (i.e. last 2 nights) I feel like I'd have done better in the actual conversations if I'd just been chill rather than trying to caveman these chicks like I did.

Oh well, there's always tonight.

bigbadbyte · 2012-03-30T21:50:22+00:00

I have a friend who can only pick up girls drunk because he just goes out of his mind. Went out one night sober and we each both almost f-closed. He went out drunk the next night and double f-closed (could have tripled but the first girl was a dog). Partly a law of numbers (he approached more girls drunk), partly he's good looking (training for a marathon), and partly just balls.

Ragas · 2012-03-30T20:27:30+00:00

It's because we want to be in Control.

I could just go back and let my hair grow, would look exactly like Kurt Cobain and some girls would come flying at me automatically. I don't want this! I want to be able to convince girls that I'm awesome on my own.

Also sometimes people get girls by sheer luck.

It's the same as when you were a small child. When they told you that the square would only go through the square hole, the circle through the circle, the star through the star .... Have you never wondered why you still were perfectly able to get the circle through the square hole?

jewfro667 · 2012-03-31T01:41:18+00:00

Yeah, for me it was mainly because I just kinda let myself get too crazy in junior high school. I hung out with the class clown, but he didn't get any girls and I didn't either. People laughed at him not with him. Basically, my social personality changed after that. Then I just became a huge pussy and am trying to get my balls back.

I really just want to be that guy that gets laid regularly and has friends that he's proud of having. This is how I'm using these seduction techniques, they aren't working for me right now though but I'm trying to tweak them to match my personality.

MeanwhileInAmerica · 2012-03-31T02:11:28+00:00

because we are changing ourselves for as much success as possible in not only seduction but in all aspects of life. Seduction is merely a launching platform the effects all others.

Richandler · 2012-03-31T03:35:54+00:00

If you look at it, things aren't much different from how a dog is raised. If you raise a dog around other dogs and you keep them social, other social situations will be natural. If you don't do that, it takes a lot of effort to make them less aggressive to other dogs.

2012-03-31T05:34:35+00:00

What makes you think it isn't hard for other people?

Most guys just accept the difficulty of dealing with women in life rather than make an effort to gain an upper hand.

Manny_Rize · 2012-03-31T07:48:01+00:00

Unconscious incompetence

 The individual does not understand or know how to do something and does not necessarily recognize the deficit. They may deny the usefulness of the skill. The individual must recognise their own incompetence, and the value of the new skill, before moving on to the next stage.[2] The length of time an individual spends in this stage depends on the strength of the stimulus to learn.[3]

Conscious incompetence

 Though the individual does not understand or know how to do something, he or she does recognize the deficit, as well as the value of a new skill in addressing the deficit. The making of mistakes can be integral to the learning process at this stage.[4]

Conscious competence

 The individual understands or knows how to do something. However, demonstrating the skill or knowledge requires concentration. It may be broken down into steps, and there is heavy conscious involvement in executing the new skill.[3]

Unconscious competence

 The individual has had so much practice with a skill that it has become "second nature" and can be performed easily. As a result, the skill can be performed while executing another task. The individual may be able to teach it to others, depending upon how and when it was learned.

Deaner3D · 2012-03-31T10:18:51+00:00

I don't even apply techniques I learn from seduction to just women anymore. I use these methods to get what I want out of any social situation. If you break it down to that level the rewards of being "conscious" during a conversation with anyone are endless.

vanillajeans · 2012-04-01T13:18:07+00:00

i believe some people read into it too much and confuse themselves even more or just act like something they are not to pick-up. its deceiving to the person you are gaming. i truly think its just a matter of being yourself and working on your own confidence instead of coming up with lines in order to make an approach on someone. tell me if im wrong

stewsky · 2012-03-30T19:43:19+00:00

We've grown up watching tv and living in a pussified emasculated society.

toosells · 2012-03-30T18:45:01+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Butterbawlz · 2012-03-30T19:41:29+00:00

Quit feeling entitled to anything. By the sounds of it, it's your attitude that's holding you back.

LickTheCumOffMyBoots · 2012-03-31T02:37:14+00:00

Stop looking and you'll find what your looking for!

Title	What the hell is wrong with us? Why do we need all this stuff?
Author	rococo78
Upvotes	73
Comments	83
Date	March 30, 2012 4:36 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/rl3ug/what_the_hell_is_wrong_with_us_why_do_we_need_all/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/what-the-hell-is-wrong-with-us-why-do-we-need-all.1330642 https://theredarchive.com/post/1330642

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