Are parents failing to socialize their boys?

Neverbiden · 2020-04-10T16:27:13+00:00

There are two types of misunderstandings at work, which are easy to conflate.

One comes perhaps from lack of socializing, and the other comes from outdated or outmoded socializing.

The first group is the functionally hopeless, who your post is about. They have no clue what the fuck is going on, and most probably never will.

The second group are the AFCs--as the (now outdated) lingo once put it.

These are the guys who did in fact understand that attractiveness and masculinity are at play to some extent, but lacked a grasp of how exacting and/or how universal the standards were. (On a scale of 1-10, they perceived it as a 4...it's important but you can compensate or trade off with other things, where the reality is probably a 7 unless you're in a tribal dominance culture).

It's not like only the guys who were best at this stuff paired off. Other guys paired off too. What's usually invisible is the internal dynamics of a pairing. It's easy to assume you're seeing all of it because you spend all day at school with them or whatever.

Anyway, TRP was designed to help this second group.

InertBrian · 2020-04-10T16:42:25+00:00

Yea this post is spot on.

While my parents aren’t terrible people at all, they had a very laidback parenting approach. As long as I got decent grades (B or higher in high school) they didn’t care what I did. This extended in to college as well.

I am praised for being the easiest child of my 7 siblings. Do you want to know why? It’s because my parents just had to stick an Xbox in front of me and I was satisfied and I could sit in the same spot for 12+ hours a day.

This laidback attitude is nice, but when your child doesn’t know any better you need to set an example for them to follow. I’m definitely grateful for not having strict parents...but like there was no putting me in sports or anything. To be fair, my mom is a very introverted person that was content just socializing with her sister so I kind of understand. I remember when my cousin and I graduated from high school my mom rolled her eyes because my cousin was getting pictures taken with her close friends.

Couple that with hearing the whole looks don’t matter nonsense and confidence trumps all. It’s easy to see why I would get shocked once college rolled around, and why I got addicted to these types of forums because I was basically living under a rock the first 20 years lmao.

I’m also pretty disgusted with my obese lifestyle, greasy hair, plain clothing style from years ago. I’ve said it before on this forum, but it’s really fucking pathetic that I had to turn to the internet to learn how to be attractive.

Cobra_x30 · 2020-04-10T16:41:47+00:00

Yes, but I also think you are kind of discounting a lot of social messaging boys get. It's everywhere from chick flicks to classroom discussions of gender issues.

mangolover97 · 2020-04-10T16:30:25+00:00

Honestly I agree. I used to work with kids and a lot of parents don’t really parent anymore. They’re content to let devices raise their kids. It really shows though. Just having a five minute conversation with the kids you could tell who had invested parents who made sure they socialized vs which ones didn’t. They were allowed to have their phones with them when we weren’t doing mandatory activities. When we’d go outside a lot of them would just sit in the shade scrolling through social media or playing video games instead of interacting with the other kids. Unsurprisingly their social sense and conversation skills were kind of stunted.

WIA20XX · 2020-04-10T16:53:57+00:00

Those parents think they are doing the right thing. And there are multi trillion dollar economic systems to promote and profit from current culture.

Unfortunately, this sub doesn't consider the damage being done to women.

OddButton6 · 2020-04-10T23:17:38+00:00

Many people wonder what social anxiety is like that i talk to. Since this really is what the subject matter is questioning, please allow me an example from my life experience.

One night i helped my sister out for a church fund raiser. My mother and other family members were there. We had a blast. My brother in law had a little too much to drink. He's a happy, funny drunk, so it's all good. The night is wrapping up and clean-up starts. Music starts blasting. The crowd is beginning to exit, probably 75% were left. He jumps up on the stage and begins dancing like footloose. He's a lousy dancer and he's such a funny guy. He was intentionally being that way. Spoofing. It was hilarious. People stopped leaving to watch and they all loved it! It wasn't until the drive home that i begin to wonder, what would the reception have been if i would have done the same thing?

First of all, the story would have been "he got drunk and acted like an ass" afterwards. Rather than it being a fond, goofy thing. The crowd laughter, it would have been laughter, but it would have been laughing AT ME, as opposed to WITH HIM. If that makes sense. My mother would have been pulling at me to get off the stage, rather than pissing herself with laughter like she did with him. It would have been a derogatory thing. Now, this is my damn family we're talking about here. Even they are biased in how they view me, and i don't mean that in a good way.

I'm not some young guy anymore. I've carried around this body long enough to know how people treat me. I recognize even the most subtle differences. I could do the exact same thing another person does, and receive a totally different reaction than they do. And yeah, I've read it in here too. "I buy a girl flowers, it's creepy. Some Chad buys her flowers, he's romantic". Now, imagine the entire world, and apparently even your own mother treating you different. Social anxiety for you folks.

Why did it happen to me? I was beat by bullies as a kid probably 3 days a week. I was never invited to anything. I used to have a lot of trust issues because my harrassers used to try and pretend they were my friend, usually only to set me up for some big humiliation thing. I was humiliated often. It could have to do with trauma when my sister died.... Or the group of assholes that saw me crying the day i found out and mocked/beat me for being a "pussy".

Honestly though, it's lack of experience. I never went to parties, never had a lot of friends. Even now i have none. I realized the other day, I've never been a groomsman at anybody's wedding. Stupid as it must sound to hear a grown man complain about it, i never have. Nobody thinks that much of me. My experiences in childhood made me this way. And lack of life experience has kept me this way. Sorry for the novel here and thank you for your time.

OddButton6 · 2020-04-10T17:16:37+00:00

Absolutely! 100%!! This is the root of the problem. Parenting. If your parents didn’t suggest that you go out and make friends during the summer, then they failed that part. My parents didn’t encourage me to make friends, they pushed the educational things on me. While they had good intentions, I failed learning some social skills growing up and it caught up to me when I was in college.

2020-04-10T23:45:19+00:00

Reddit doesn't like to admit it but the 'indoor generation' is a big problem.

You're absolutely correct. You need to socialise and have constant interaction with your peers and the opposite sex to understand them. Youth is such an important time to learn about others and grow as an individual.

Spending too much time inside is really bad for mental health - yet people rarely mention this.

PeppyHydra · 2020-04-10T17:32:45+00:00

Positive and negative feedback loops. If you get positive feedback for your social actions, that's gonna lead to more socialising and experience.

If not, and you get rejected for your early awkward and uncomfortable approaches, you won't try again. And it'll get worse and worse.

Not entirely parents fault

StopTheIncels · 2020-04-10T23:13:10+00:00

Literally watching all of my cousins (ages 10-20) go through childhood without ANY of amazing childhood experiences I have done as kid (rock climbing, camping/backpacking, long winding roadtrips, long summer camps with very minimal supervision).

Fuck helicopter safety police and apathetic parenting

Visserman75 · 2020-04-10T17:16:10+00:00

[deleted]

Aaren_Augustine · 2020-04-10T16:29:40+00:00

Partly, but I don't think it's the core issue.

Its dads or father figures that aren't pushing boys to go through a "rite of passage" or otherwise grow up. It's not all men's fault as we have clearly established some women will keep the fathers away from their children and do this with the courts assistance.

I mean, just look at your post. Where is your dad in all this?

MuleFool42 · 2020-04-10T19:47:01+00:00

Not everyone has great parents or a great childhood. Consider yourself lucky.

AidsVictim · 2020-04-10T17:33:08+00:00

It's a combination of things. Despite what some parents like to think, there is a lot about a kids life you can't control - their genetics and their social interaction at school/community. You can be a good parent and still end up with a "loser" of a kid because they were genetically predisposed towards being anti social or bad experiences interacting with other children at an early age.

To your point though yes lacking parenting skills/dedication/knowledge is increasing the rate of social maladjustment and it's only going to get worse, both on a parental level as single mothers/fathers are generally more stressed and unable to provide comparatively stable social environments of previous generations and in a general societal level due to technological anti social saturation and their peers generally being less socially capable as well. Society is going in the opposite direction of what creates socially healthy children and no one is going to pull the brakes.

25russianbear25 · 2020-04-10T19:31:17+00:00

Hard agree. Lots of younger parents think videogames/TV/tictoc is good enough as long as theyre kids are quiet BUT

Video games/TV is by far the cheapest option by FAR to give to your kids vs sending them to camps, formals, movies, vocations, parks, sports, dances, boat trips, ski trips, offroading, etc. Kids with richer parents get way better social exposure.

Many kids have 0 money to do anything like that. People entirely forget the socioeconomic status to find some simple scapegoat like 4chan, videogames and tic tok but at the end of the day going out of the house and doing fun things costs money.

TL:DR - going out of the house and doing fun things and socializing costs WAY more than TV/videogames. And huge chunk of parents dont have that disposable income.

LittyKitsune · 2020-04-10T19:41:51+00:00

Oh yes.

It creates a selection effect where sheltered boys who actually listen to their parents don't get socialized while the ones who don't listen or care about authority sneak out to spend time with friends, say they're spending time with friends when they're actually...."spending time" with girls, listening to the music their parents don't like, watching the channels their parents hate, etc.

Weirdly enough growing up in a household where my parents were pretty lenient about the media we consumed and long as we didn't spend all day with it. If behavior they didn't want manifested as a result then they dealt with it case by case.

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lestratege · 2020-04-11T00:55:31+00:00

Kids can't drive themselves to the park but for generations they walked or biked there.

tetraacetic · 2020-04-11T04:18:44+00:00

Your idea appears to assume that every girl that boys talk to growing up serves as practice for flirting and actually talking to girls.

I would say that the general environment I was brought up in was of traditional, immigrant families who think boys should hang out with boys, and girls with girls. Mixing the genders was just considered unusual, like "why would she want to hang out with boys, when she can play with girls and do girly things". The only girls I really encountered up until I was like 6 were relatives, and they obviously aren't "girls" that you can practice flirting with. Never really had a deep obsession with video games growing up, it was more of a passive interest, so that was never a problem.

When I was around 6-7, I started going to the park near my house to play with kids. The parents knew of each other, but weren't all necessarily friends. I had eventually surrounded myself with exclusively guys by the time I was 9. We'd talk about girls, but never really with girls. I was friends with a few girls, but never really considered them as "options" to flirt with and learn cues from. Girls and guys had their own separate cliques in school, and seeing a boy and girl holding hands wasn't a thing until I was like 11. That's when I started having crushes on girls, but realized I have no real idea on how to talk to them. I knew it'd be weird to approach girls I was friends with for tips, so I never bothered. You can't just ask her "hey so I like this girl, and since you're also a female, what do I do?"

I went through highschool and had to quickly learn to adapt to how well people would socialize with each other, regardless of gender or any other characteristics. It became a lot easier to socialize with girls, but talking to a girl I like was still a foreign concept for me. I haven't been out of highschool for too long, and it's still fairly difficult.

Girls (or I guess I should say women now) still have cliques where they have friends of both genders. Encountering girls that you like left, right, and centre and charming them up isn't as simple or commonplace as you seem to think. Practicing with female friends seems like an awful strategy. You can easily come off as creepy or desperate, and you bet they'll tell their entire group of friends that you tried to "practice" with her.

sleuthoftrades · 2020-04-11T05:13:55+00:00

Yeah, my mom was an immigrant who really didn't "get" western culture. She really messed me up in many ways. I had to leave the house and go to college before I started figuring things out. Basically taught myself. My father provided guidance on how to be successful career-wise, but his own career was very busy.

Having said that, I don't see the large number of single mothers being a good thing for boys of future generations.

poppy_blu · 2020-04-11T09:03:25+00:00

You may be the only person here than the incels hate more than me.

901735 · 2020-04-10T19:51:32+00:00

Are parents failing to socialize their boys?

Yes, they should be taught to be much more aggressive.

But, it's not so much of a problem as parents REALLY failing to not only socialize, but also discipline daughters.

Orange_Paisley · 2020-04-10T16:57:55+00:00

Yeah it’s easier for a stressed out parent to hand their kid the tv remote and a video game controller and keep them quiet for a few hours than actually parent a kid. I’ve been guilty of that myself from time to time (though my kid is a girl).

goneaway2thewind · 2020-04-10T17:49:56+00:00

I think older people just value socializing with people in person more than younger generations. The digital world is still the real one, it's just more native to them. My little brother has friends in person but barely hangs out with them because there's nothing that they connect on. But he runs his own minecraft empire guild on this server and is constantly communicating with them on operating that. The way I see it is, he could talk to the kids across the street about nothing he cares about, or experience his highs of all the digital connections he's made.

I'm making six figures for the first time this year and most of this happened because of online connections I've made. (Strange timing with the virus and all) This is the new era, and I think its naive to believe that just because you don't connect with someone in person doesn't mean they are nobodys. You have absolutely no idea what that person could be up to or what they know that you don't.

Boys will be fine in my opinion. I was a sporty nerd so I got the best of both worlds but guys have a natural inclination to require some sort of stimulus, they'll sort themselves out.

OXOzymandias · 2020-04-10T20:21:26+00:00

Yup pretty much this, all my struggles come from my childhood, and the lack of socializing, but hey i dont complain, i dont have big success with women but i do get action sometimes, and i know dudes who have a lot of friends, but still have drought and lack of success.

Like to me lack of success go far beyond socialization, tho incel are just under socialized retard.

G77R23D · 2020-04-10T17:20:46+00:00

Where was your dad?

TomahawkSuppository · 2020-04-10T20:05:23+00:00

I had plenty of socialization as a kid and my parents remained married till they passed away. The difference however was that my parents got married at a time when things were very different. I’d be a fool if I let that lull me into some false sense of security. Modern day marriage from what I’ve seen is men getting into a legal contract and then hoping everyday that this isn’t the day the wife decides to take mash the self destruct button on his life. Frankly there is 0 upside to it.

M4sterDis4ster · 2020-04-10T21:25:35+00:00

Single mothers usually fail to socialize sons.

Jujuj0 · 2020-04-10T17:11:34+00:00

Yes, but I think it's easy to fail as a parent when it comes to boys nowadays.

For example my parents really tried and weren't the lazy type that leave their children to play videogames all day long. My parents were just a little bit too authoritarian and I developed bad social anxiety from very young age.

I even played soccer for 10 years during my teens on pretty high level. I was also doing other sports and had many (male) friends and wasn't some nerd who was at home all the time. I wasn't bad looking either, yet I still failed with girls even though there were some that were interested. It doesn't mean anything if you can't bring yourself to talk to them.

jcandres- · 2020-04-10T17:56:59+00:00

You’re right... my grandparents failed at teaching me how to socialize. In fact 95% of the time I tried to talk to them or express how I feel they told me to stfu. And when I asked why, they said “because I said so”. I realize that’s why I struggle so much socializing in the past years.

I have a younger brother and my parents are taking the same path that my grandparents took educating me. That’s why I’m trying to teach my younger brother what I know. Even tho he’s too young to understand everything, I think I can help him to be and do what I couldn’t when I was his age.

InfidelCastro11 · 2020-04-11T00:05:37+00:00

Yes, was not allowed to socialize, am worse for it

iamgroot333 · 2020-04-11T01:09:06+00:00

i agree.

i'm convinced my severe lack of success and struggles with women was due to the fact my parents literally raised me with the 100% incorrect attitude and information in regards to socializing with the opposite sex.

they just did that part wrong. like they were reading the instruction manual for a bike to try to build a plane.

the end result was that i was just COMPLETELY fucking lost on how to deal with women.

had to figure it out one gruelling step at a time by myself just figuring out basic shit most guys got at least to some extent.

in conclusion, i think those dudes who are just completely lost on how to interact and have success with women, is mostly due to incorrect parenting or just no parenting

Plutonic_blue · 2020-04-12T10:38:09+00:00

Its much deeper than that. Im pretty sure most guys know that yeah, you need to be clean, fit, and take care of yourself if you wanna get noticed or laid. But its the social dynamic they get lied to about. My mom and a lot of people would tell me when I was younger that women are angels, treat them right, all women want is a man who loves them, cares for them, is kind, sensitive, treats them right, all that shit.

So imagine my confusion that when doing that, most women only saw me as friend material. I was confused so I looked it up and saw the whole red pill bad boy thing. Didn't believe it at first because most women SWEAR they want that kind, sweet, prince charming so I just said whatever and kept doing that. Yeah didn't go down well for me.

Now im older and use a lot of red pill tactics, and of course, women notice me more, and I get laid more now. So it's really about parents and societys raising boys to be betas. Most dudes I know slayin pussy now were at one point that nice sweet guy. Now they're entirely different, same with me. Just how it is.

richlad · 2020-04-12T17:59:41+00:00

Lel!

So it's parents fault?

Well, I beg to differ. See I always saw that girls are less effective than guys. I have no reason or anything to feel insecure or anxious with someone who is clearly beneath me.

The thing is, the guys who are raised with a thought that everyone is equal get burned out by other people who think, they can get ahead by screwing others up.

The extreme cases of redpilled started as bluepilled early in life. While guys who were raised redpilled, remained a moderate version of redpilled.

So what gives? I was raised redpilled and I always strategically made bets to rope in girls with my game and not depend on being nice and shit which clearly never had worked for any girl worth chasing.

chocolateAbuser · 2020-04-14T21:33:39+00:00

So I stumbled here I don't even remember from where, probably it's like my 2nd post on reddit. Btw FDS is quite a strong title.I can bring my testimony, yes, in part my asociality follows from bad parenting, in part probably I'm just this way and I guess it's something my parents didn't know how to deal with. Probably nobody knows what happened and how it went.

For years they asked me why didn't I "go out", I honestly had no answer except for what should I do when I'm "out"? I had no clue.So as others already said here no affections, no friends, yadda yadda yadda.In the end I guess I don't really want anyone around, it's still something I don't understand fully, but I know not it's bad, especially in my country, having connections is fundamental.

The second thing I wanted to say is although this is not my world I find words here fly a bit too lightheartedly for me, like general affirmations based on personal povs, discussions that lacks any data, ecc; sorry I don't want to be anal about it, it's just that I don't think it's really useful to say people do that, women do that, guys do that other thing. Cut the metaphors, speak about your experiences in first person, don't generalize.Like guys that say I tried hitting on 2000 women, noone responded positively, therefore they are all bad. If you really did that, probably it's you that did it in a bad manner.

Just to say it, I read also some interesting stuff here.

analt223 · 2020-04-10T17:07:27+00:00

Yes. I am immensely bitter at my parents because they used to say all the time things like/nod and agree with my sister when she said

"Men and women are the exact same and its all a social construct" "Equality is 50/50 ratios"

When I was at a very impressionable age in my middle/high school years and what not. I'm now early 30s and so far behind the curve socially that I'm more or less unable to recoup.

AdolfGandi · 2020-04-11T00:07:54+00:00

Nice bait. Chad doesn't use reddit to pad his ego.

Troy016 · 2020-04-10T16:49:40+00:00

Essentially yes. Most people aren’t ready to become parents or don’t give af about me parents . I’m guessing, but probably 50% of kids now and days are mistakes

wtknight · 2020-04-10T16:54:09+00:00

[removed]

Grand_Duty · 2020-04-10T22:23:16+00:00

In Canada and in America a majority of people play sports and go to camps, your agrument is lol bro go outside, not helpful for guys that are not white and six feet with Efron looks. Hence thirty percent of men struggling to get laid, while 18% of women struggle to deny that didn't count or that was a mistake, or that was one a Tuesday so it doesn't count.

Title	Are parents failing to socialize their boys?
Author	YoureNotAverageLoser
Upvotes	71
Comments	165
Date	April 10, 2020 4:18 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/fyiwhb/are_parents_failing_to_socialize_their_boys/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/are-parents-failing-to-socialize-their-boys.361711 https://theredarchive.com/post/361711

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