CDC stats about rape in the last 12 months

Yeah, human psychology is often weird regarding the idea of sex as ‘penetration’. A term that you'd think would only rightly apply in the case of the breaking of a hymen, unless you also consider objects to ‘penetrate’ the body when entering other orifices.

And the penetrator is always the aggressor, somehow. If a person is actively having themselves penetrated, they're not ‘forcing’ the other party, regardless of the other's consent, they're just actively consenting to be aggressed—as if mutual sexual consent is, by its nature, sadomasochistic, and always to the male's benefit.

It's not just feminist theory, either, but something of a silent assumption many more people are shown to unconsciously make. These are the sort of instinctual intuitions lovingly applied by natural selection that we need to be a lot more aware and skeptical of...

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I am not sure if that covers federal law (not from the USA)

Wikipedia: Laws regarding rape - There is no national rape law in the United States, due to the United States v. Morrison ruling that parts of the Violence Against Women Act of 1994 were unconstitutional. Each state has its own laws concerning sexual aggression. Nor is there any national standard in the US for defining and reporting male-male or female-perpetrated rapes. In most states, the definition of rape is broad, with respect to genders and the nature of the acts involved. Info on the 4 largest states (containing 1/3 of US pop): (In case this reference is questioned/challenged as inaccurate.) None are gender-specific, all include CA: "A Penal Code 261 pc "rape" occurs...under California rape law...when an individual engages in sexual intercourse with another person when the sexual act is accomplished (1) against that person's will, or (2) without that person’s consent.." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_rape

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I thought the report provided a lot of information and defined things explicitly enough to allow readers to come to their own conclusions.(sic)

Yes it does, and no it doesn't. Yes it does in that it does define it, but that definition is outdated, at least according to almost every person I have asked, not a big enough study I know but still. No it doesn't because it highlights certain pieces of information, majority of people won't read the whole report, and even fewer will read all of it. (Even I didn't read the entire thing) So it chooses what it wants to focus on and I among other people here think they are focusing on the wrong part of the stats and that is why I posted it. Too many people quote too many different sources, (1 in 6 women will be raped, 1 in 5 women will be raped, and I even heard someone say 1 in 4), without ever actually reading the report or fact checking source, and then when people try and correct them or show them a different stat they ask for proof of our stats.

This is the main reason I posted this, is so people could save the link and the next time they get in a debate with someone about rape statistics they can show that the CDC says that in the last 12 months men and women were equally raped if you define rape as non-consensual sexual intercourse.

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I disagree, as I'm sure that most people would, and I'm pretty sure that on average a male will be more, perhaps much more, violent in rape than a female rapist.

What about women who are raped while unconscious or drugged?

What about women who are raped using verbal coercion but no actual physical force?

Do you consider women who have sex while drunk to be raped? If so, what about those women?

Do you consider pressuring or persuading women to have sex to be rape? If so, what about those women?

Do you consider unwanted sex received passively without voicing consent (or nonconsent) is rape? If so, what about those women?

Because if you're going to argue that only violent-hold-her-down-while-she-struggles-and-screams-and-fuck-her-till-she's-bleeding is rape, then your 1-in-4 rape numbers go out the window as well.

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Legal definitions vary a great deal from state to state and country to country. Actual coercion-- i.e., verbal threats-- probably counts as rape in most places. Pressuring a girl to have sex or persuading or seducing her or anything like that, probably not.

The 1-in-4 stat originally comes from a study of college women conducted by Mary Koss that appeared in Ms. Magazine. It attempted to ask women if they'd been raped without using the word "rape," and used questions like "Have you ever had sex you didn't want to?" or "Have you ever had sex while intoxicated that you wouldn't have had otherwise?" Something like 3/4ths of the surveyed women did not feel they had been raped, and a large number were still in relationships with their "attackers" a few months later.

I couldn't give you numbers on the frequency of "non violent" rape versus "violent" rape, but most rape advocacy people seem to think that the non-violent kind happens far more frequently.

Even if you don't count verbal coercion and so forth (and I wouldn't count it myself in most cases), that still leaves a lot of both men and women raped while unconscious.

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Regarding "made to penetrate" never actually happening:

Among men, being made to penetrate someone else could have occurred in multiple ways: being made to vaginally penetrate a female using one’s own penis; orally penetrating a female’s vagina or anus; anally penetrating a male or female; or being made to receive oral sex from a male or female. It also includes female perpetrators attempting to force male victims to penetrate them, though it did not happen. (page 17, sidebar definitions)

Regarding overreporting in other surveys:

As an example of prevalence differences between the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey and other surveys, the lifetime prevalence estimate of rape for men in this report is lower than what has been reported in other surveys (e.g., for forced sex more broadly) (Basile, Chen, Black, & Saltzman, 2007). This could be due in part to the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey making a distinction between rape and being made to penetrate someone else. Being made to penetrate is a form of sexual victimization distinct from rape that is particularly unique to males and, to our knowledge, has not been explicitly measured in previous national studies. It is possible that rape questions in prior studies captured the experience of being made to penetrate someone else, resulting in higher prevalence estimates for male rape in those studies. (page 84)

The "common interpretation" is still correct, though possibly (probably) lowballs the number of male rape victims. They consider oral, anal, or vaginal penetration rape for women, so there's no reason why we shouldn't consider it rape for men.

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So men suffer more psychological aggression than women.

.4% is close enough to not justify saying one suffers more then the other, especially since it is a sample sized survey. If it was the other way around and someone came in spouting women has it worse because .4%, many here would, (I would say correctly) correct them saying that .4% is not enough of a deviation.

So an almost equal number of Sexual Assaults.

Point in case above .4% (which if you take the .4% and divide by the average(48.6%) is only .008% difference) is enough to say men suffer more where as .3% difference (which once again if you take the .3% and divide by the average(5.45%) is .05% difference) is not enough to say women suffer more shows your bias on the situation.

I would rather say that they are close enough to equal on both statistics.

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Oh yes I understand what you are trying to say, and the, at least for me, awful thing about language, is that I can't always find the correct words to use. Sometimes they don't exist, other times people have different meanings for them. So all I was trying to say was that 1) It is still awful that they were attempted raped.(is that even the right way to say that? 2) We should still care about them.

And the best way I could think of was as a victim.

I just get very angry when people try to manipulate language to suit their own agenda (like when feminists pretend that sexism = power + prejudice, therefore men can not suffer sexism and women cannot be sexist). Words have meaning.

I completely agree with this sentiment and that is why I try and be careful how I word my responses, but even when I do, I make mistakes and people miss my message (not their fault, most likely mine, but it is what happens)

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Hmm...

La rapa (Brassica rapa subsp. rapa) viene coltivata per la sua radice di forma tondeggiante, talvolta piuttosto tozza, ricoperta da una...
Turnip (Brassica rapa subsp. rapa) is cultivated for its rounded root, at times stubby, covered in a...

Second result:

the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse. 2. any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.

Third result:

A criminal offense defined in most states as forcible sexual relations with a person against that person's will. Rape is the commission of unlawful sexual ...

Sixth result:

Although the legal definition of rape varies from state to state, rape is generally defined as forced or nonconsensual sexual contact

Looks like google.it is more on our side than google.com

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First off I was pointing out in the last 12 months part. Because as a society yes looking in the past is good to learn from, but to measure how we are advancing we can't keep looking at the past, but need to be looking at the now and future.

So if you looked in the 12 month numbers 1,267,000 men were 'forced to penetrate' and 1,270,000 women were 'raped'.

I put those in '' because the point I am making and so many other make is that they should both read, rape. Forced to penetrate being put into other sexual violence is just wrong.

And please don't ever say percentages mean nothing, that just breaks my heart. Percentages mean everything. If I surveyed all the men in The United States ~ 150,000,000 and concluded that 1,267,000 were raped last year and then surveyed 150,000 women and concluded that only 1,270 were raped and published a paper going hey look there is about 100x more male rapes then female I would be shot down because you never look at raw numbers alone.

Also how do you think they got those numbers? Do you think they actually surveyed millions of people? No, they surveyed 16,507 adults, (9,086 women, and 7,421 men). They then found the percents of these people who answered that they were raped, among other questions and then took those percents, and multiplied them by an estimate of the number of people in the whole population.

So my point, is that there are too many misguided people such as yourself who was severely let down in the statistics classes that don't know how to properly read stats.

Another point is that men last year were raped just as often as women, and that rape shouldn't be a gender thing anymore. The false bias that women are raped more often then men, while may at one point in our past have been true, is no longer true today.

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Seriously man, you need to chill out. I'm going to quote you directly:

statistics can be used to prove anything

Followed by a response to "how would we ever come to any conclusions on social issues?"

You don't.

Your argument (feel free to correct me) is that because (and I'm going to emphasize some things here) statistics can be used incorrectly to imply "proof" of anything that no conclusions can EVER be reached on social issues. That is exactly the fallacy of gray. Sorry dude, some studies are better than others that involve social issues.

Just because most studies advance on agenda does not mean all studies do. That's why we have peer review. That's why people find flaws in studies, reproduce them, repeat them, etc.

Look, don't get me wrong, the conclusion by the OP that because this one study has these two numbers the same we should conclude that men and women get raped the same amount, is definitely a bit of a stretch. The truth is others should probably repeat the study, using their own randomly selected sample, and we should wait to conclude anything. I would trust this source a lot more than a random other sources though. But, as you said, there's a lot of bias in this subject that could definitely leave you skeptical.

That being said, I don't understand why you say:

Such studies are not scientific as in it can be reproduced.

Are you trying to suggest that no studies involving human beings can be reproduced? That they can't be falsified? How would any soft sciences conclude anything ever?

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Your argument (feel free to correct me) is that because (and I'm going to emphasize some things here) statistics can be used incorrectly to imply "proof" of anything that no conclusions can EVER be reached on social issues.

No moron, my argument isn't that NO conclusions can ever be reached. My argument is that any conclusion that you wish to show can be reached. That's how statistics in economics/social issues work. You want to show a conclusion, you find data to back your conclusion. There really cannot be any conclusive debate since there aren't any hypothesis in economics/social issues that can be scientifically tested. It is not physics.

That is exactly the fallacy of gray.

That's not a gray fallacy you fucking moron. Gray fallacy requires two extremes and the illogical assumption that the compromise or moderation is the right answer since extremes are usually incorrect. Can you point out the two extremes and where I asserted that the moderation is the right answer? Go learn what a fucking gray fallacy is before using it. Dumb ass.

Just because most studies advance on agenda does not mean all studies do.

All studies advance an agenda. That's the point of studies.

That's why we have peer review. That's why people find flaws in studies, reproduce them, repeat them, etc.

You can't truly reproduce or test anything in economics/social issues. That's not how they work.

Are you trying to suggest that no studies involving human beings can be reproduced?

That's why they are considered soft "sciences" moron. There aren't hypotheses that you can test. Social issues do not obey natural physical laws that you can independently test.

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So are you saying the people who say that 1 in 6, 1 in 5, and 1 in 4 women will be raped in their lifetime shouldn't because those stats were probably 'made up'?

No it depends on what you mean by rape and what range of data you use. Rape rates are not a law of nature and it's not like every rape is reported. Also, you can use rape statistics to advance whatever your agenda is. If you are a rape counselor or make a living off of rape victims, you want rape to be as expanded as possible. If you are a mayor of a city, you want the rape statistics to show less rape. You can spin it whatever way you want.

First, we cannot know for certain what the rape stats truly are. 1 in 6, 1 in 5, 1 in 4 or 1 in whatever. Secondly, people can massage the data or spin the results for their own agenda. Thirdly, the rape statistics cannot be reproduced/tested. There is no hypothesis or claim that can be scientifically tested.

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My argument is that any conclusion that you wish to show can be reached.

The logical extension of "any conclusion ... can be reached" is that no conclusion can ever be trusted and therefore no conclusion can be reached. Explain to me how a conclusion could possibly be reached if no conclusion can ever be trusted?

That's how statistics in economics/social issues work. You want to show a conclusion, you find data to back your conclusion.

This can be done in any field, including theoretical physics. Should we conclude that because it has been done and can be done that theoretical physics is no longer scientific and any conclusion can be demonstrated?

There really cannot be any conclusive debate since there aren't any hypothesis in economics/social issues that can be scientifically tested.

How about road congestion? Economists used mathematical models to predict reduced traffic by removing the number of intersections between roads. It worked. This has been done quite a number of times, but I can find a source if you don't believe me.

Gray fallacy requires two extremes and the illogical assumption that the compromise or moderation is the right answer since extremes are usually incorrect. Can you point out the two extremes and where I asserted that the moderation is the right answer?

The two extremes: the conclusion he suggested using the 1.1% is either true or it is false. You implied that there is actually only one correct position, between these two extremes, that since ANY conclusion can be shown to be true, no conclusion can ever be trusted. This is a nearly perfect example of the fallacy of gray and you can't even see it.

All studies advance an agenda. That's the point of studies.

But not all studies advance an agenda/show bias to the same degree. You're lumping all studies, no matter how scientifically sound together. Here's a quote from the link I posted for fallacy of gray:

Is this too obvious to be worth mentioning? I say it is not too obvious, for many bloggers have said of Overcoming Bias: "It is impossible, no one can completely eliminate bias." I don't care if the one is a professional economist, it is clear that they have not yet grokked the Quantitative Way as it applies to everyday life and matters like personal self-improvement. That which I cannot eliminate may be well worth reducing.

"All studies advance an agenda" is almost equivalent to "It is impossible, no one can completely eliminate bias." And the guy is using it as an example of fallacy of gray!

That's why they are considered soft "sciences" moron. There aren't hypotheses that you can test. Social issues do not obey natural physical laws that you can independently test.

There's also a reason the word science is included. How would any soft science ever advance itself or take itself seriously if no conclusion could ever be demonstrated? Answer me this.

[+]d13nt_ban_me_again -9 points-8 points-7 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The logical extension of "any conclusion ... can be reached" is that no conclusion can ever be trusted and therefore no conclusion can be reached.

No, any conclusion can be reached measn any conclusion can be reached.

This can be done in any field, including theoretical physics.

If a field of study has no hypotheses that can be tested, then yes, it is not a science. As far as I know, we know of no way to test string theory. So for the time being, string theory is more mathematics than science. However, string theory may be testable as our understanding of physics improves. Economics/social issues are by nature not testable. It's like art.

How about road congestion? Economists used mathematical models to predict reduced traffic by removing the number of intersections between roads.

Yes mathematical MODELS based on "laws" ( speed limit, number of cars, distance etc ).

The two extremes: the conclusion he suggested using the 1.1% is either true or it is false.

Oh give me a fucking break you fucking retard. You are just desperate to be right at all costs and spewing gibberish. That is not EXTREMES moron. That is the nature of EVERY position. Every position is true or false you fucking cockroach. A gray fallacy would be if person A said 1% is correct. Person B said 99% is correct. And I say 50% is correct since it is the middle ( moderate ) value.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_to_moderation

You fucking educate yourself instead of trying to mask your retardation by using philosophical concepts you don't understand.

You implied that there is actually only one correct position

I implied the exact opposite moron.

This is a nearly perfect example of the fallacy of gray and you can't even see it.

No it is not moron.

But not all studies advance an agenda/show bias to the same degree. You're lumping all studies, no matter how scientifically sound together.

There are NO "scientifically sound" economic/social issue study moron. Economics/social issues are not testable. They are more art than science. Okay? Hard science vs soft science. That's why in economics you can have supply-side vs demand-side views that are opposite and yet both "correct". That's like geocentric vs heliocentric views being both "correct" in physics. You can test the geocentric vs heliocentric views, but you can't test supply-side vs demand-side views.

"All studies advance an agenda" is almost equivalent to "It is impossible, no one can completely eliminate bias." And the guy is using it as an example of fallacy of gray!

Holy shit you are fucking stupid. You don't know what gray fallacy is. That's your fucking problem.

There's also a reason the word science is included. How would any soft science ever advance itself or take itself seriously if no conclusion could ever be demonstrated? Answer me this.

That's the point moron. It doesn't advance. As I said supply-side vs demand-side economics. You can't prove one over the other. It's a matter of your TASTE/Politics/beliefs.

[–]blazedaces 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You're obviously more interested in resorting to ad hominem attacks (another logical fallacy) then having a civilized discussion.

I'm not schlepping through all of this garbage, I'm just going to point out the one conclusion that discredits everything:

Economics/social issues are by nature not testable. It's like art.

You know, in mathematics if you're attempting a proof and somewhere you find yourself concluding that 0 = 1 or some other impossible thing you know you've made a mistake. You backtrack and find it or you erase the whole thing and go back to the drawing board to try again.

Likewise, once you're claiming economics and art are equally as subjective, you went wrong somewhere. The professional societies, journals, and conferences on economics, and the professors in those subject would not consider their field equally as subjective as art.

Oh, and String theory is not the only example in theoretical physics where people disagree. Einstein never agreed fully with everything in quantum mechanics, arguing famously that "god does not play dice".

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Flamewall26 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+]Ah_Pook 14 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

I think freyday is saying that comparing percentages is meaningless, not that 1.1% of the people don't matter.

[–]Trahas 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Alanna 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Bobsutan -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	CDC stats about rape in the last 12 months
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	330
Comments	192
Date	May 3, 2012 6:45 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/t5hs7/cdc_stats_about_rape_in_the_last_12_months/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/cdc-stats-about-rape-in-the-last-12-months.1022591 https://theredarchive.com/post/1022591

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