If men's rights have to be put on pause during war, then men don't really have rights.

ThumpingBump · 2022-03-21T23:19:22+00:00

[permanently deleted]

omegaphallic · 2022-03-22T02:49:13+00:00

Well said.

needs_grammarly · 2022-03-22T03:38:18+00:00

The problem is that too many people act like being a soldier and going to war is something noble, even the depiction is like that, every time they show damage and female/child casualties they also say how "brave and noble soldiers" are fighting against the enemy. They glorify the situation but the men dying are just numbers, nobody shows how they're torn to pieces by explosions, how shrapnel impales them and they slowly bleed out, how they get buried and half-crushed by rubble and they die alone in the dark after an excruciating several hours, how they're caught in fire and their flesh melts away while they're alive and aware of what's happening. And the list of how many ways you can die in a war just goes on and on; not to mention all the ways the survivors will be fucked up for life. Anybody claiming it's not a major human rights violation to force people (men) to go into war or human rights can be suspended either practices willful ignorance or they're just evil.

Razorbladekandyfan · 2022-03-22T21:29:07+00:00

Don’t forget when women got the vote it was far more advantageous than the universal right of all men to vote granted just a short term before - women were not liable for war. I notice in the Ukrainian situation they are happy to have men used as cannon fodder whilst women want in on the heroics : there have been a few instances of women “volunteer soldiers” posing with what turned out to be fake guns.

Early-Pay-6248 · 2022-03-22T00:36:43+00:00

It's not that men dont have rights, it's that women are privileged.

2022-03-22T03:36:31+00:00

You see this all over. Men's rights are usually based on some conditions.

hifi3xx · 2022-03-22T03:37:28+00:00

So that's what Male privilege means. What women call rights, men call privilege, ya know since they can be taken away in times of war, or when ever it is convenient

Deceiver172 · 2022-03-22T01:56:42+00:00

Dude people are suffering right now, it's not the right time to bring these issues /s

throwaway22558 · 2022-03-22T09:49:30+00:00

"All men are shit"* -society

*until we need them to die for us in a war.

Honestly if a foreign army invades the western world, I'm not protecting females. I'll literally just tell the invading army that they can have them in exchange for my safety and freedom.

Trading a liability for an asset seems like a good trade anyway.

Pr0X_JoshiGuy · 2022-03-22T09:44:02+00:00

At least In Sweden the draft is fair. Everyone between 16 and 60 women included

TAPriceCTR · 2022-03-22T04:22:02+00:00

We don't either way.

throwaway6661991 · 2022-03-22T22:32:27+00:00

A revolution is needed

Sergio-C-Marin · 2022-03-22T22:17:44+00:00

Exactly

tomjokerfive · 2022-03-23T01:51:06+00:00

What a surprise,sexism is still revalent and in nearly every single big&small country

MRMRising · 2022-03-22T12:34:57+00:00

"Virtually every society that survived did so by socializing its sons to be disposable. Disposable in war; disposable in work. We need warriors and volunteer firefighters, so we label these men heroes."

Warren Farrell

griii2 · 2022-03-22T10:39:01+00:00

Don't despair, there is a way to get your human rights back. You simply have to stop being a cis male!

Czechia: Ukrainian trans women are afraid to flee the country. The gender column in the passport can send them back.

https://denikn.cz/839010/ukrajinske-trans-zeny-se-boji-utect-ze-zeme-kolonka-v-pasu-je-muze-poslat-zpet

Slovakia: Hundreds of transgender women from Ukraine were not allowed across the border
They still have their maiden name and gender in their passports.

https://svet.sme.sk/c/22866978/rusko-ukrajina-vojna-invazia.html

parahacker · 2022-03-22T04:10:07+00:00

"Natural Rights" comes from the philosophical concept of "state of nature." As in, if it was just you and nature - maybe a few other people around, but the biggest concerns would be survival - what you you need in order to survive and thrive? Those things that, if a bigger bully were to come along and take away, would negatively impact you?

Those things would be 'natural' rights. Freedom of movement, general freedom of information sharing, the right to personal property, etcetera.

A war is not 'natural'. It is, in fact, the bigger bully. The rights still exist, the concept still has meaning even when those rights are denied you - which is why they're worth fighting for even if society deems that you don't 'need' them.

There's a massive philosophical underpinning here, lots of thought experiments, caveats, etcetera; and I highly recommend learning more about ethical frameworks and the history behind them. It's the sort of philosophy class that truly has positive impact on all aspects of your life and your thinking.

I know this isn't what you were looking for when you posted this, but here we are. Knowledge about the philosophy of ethics is worth advertising.

mordin1428 · 2022-03-22T21:06:44+00:00

No human being must be forced to fight a war

eventhorizon51 · 2022-03-22T02:13:01+00:00

What throws a wrench into these kinds of issues is the fact that legislators are overwhelmingly men. In order for these issues to improve men have to be the ones to take a stand and fight against these double standards.

Anthraxious · 2022-03-22T16:09:11+00:00

Hey I agree on the hypocricy side of things, but if there's any gender that is needed during war, it's men. They're (on average) physically stronger. Just biology really. Again I agree on the thought behind this, but what's the alternative?

Let's say a third is men, a third women and the last third children for ease of argument. Now let's say instead we say "all women must fight, the men can leave with the children". Reversed problem but also, weaker army.

Can't just send the kids away either I believe (or can they?). I'm genuinely curious how to solve this "problem" so to speak. Maybe just leave it as "anyone who wants, stay and fight, the rest flee"? I'm on board with that too tbh.

oafsalot · 2022-03-22T10:33:50+00:00

Rights are afforded you via the country in which you exist. Rights are not absolute statements of fact, they're hard won ideals. If you country falls, your rights and everything you had goes with it.

I'd be pretty pissed at my country if they trapped my loved ones in a war torn country and left them to die but I have no problem staying myself and taking up arms so my family and the families of all those I know and loved get to come back to a country that affords them their hard won rights.

Refugees don't really have rights, so it's Ukraine or bust.

Phelan_W · 2022-03-22T10:55:34+00:00

Personally, I find that there should justbe a draft for both genders instead of for neither.

mikerichh · 2022-03-22T13:38:29+00:00

Counter argument- you can’t take away rights if they never existed

BehaviouralSc1ence · 2022-03-22T16:56:02+00:00

Does anyone know of a single man who doesn’t want to defend Ukraine? I have friends in Kyiv and Odessa, no one wants to leave. Even a lot of women have taken the kids out of the country to grandparents and are returning to fight - I don’t agree with forced conscription of males only , but this is a bad example - Ukrainian men don’t fuck about. Everyone is part of civil defence.

Eatmorechips44 · 2022-03-21T23:34:24+00:00

I’m gonna be controversial and say I agree with conscription when the survival of the country depends on it. I’m male and obviously want rights but those rights will be gone if my country is not protected.

2022-04-05T01:14:36+00:00

Everyone who has ever lived, or ever will live, has exactly the same rights.

Sometimes the government tramples on them, but they're still there.

Razorbladekandyfan · 2022-03-22T16:57:05+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Anomynoms13 · 2022-03-22T07:13:34+00:00

If women's rights have to be put on pause during rape, then women don't really have rights.

Doesn't really make sense does it?

BottomBorn · 2022-03-22T18:05:33+00:00

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S1xxcKCGljY&vl=en

BottomBorn · 2022-03-22T18:01:49+00:00

Hi! I’m a man. Aren’t men leading most, if not all of, our current and historical wars? And by default, aren’t men responsible for the draft and who is exploited by it? We agree the draft is bad, but it’s rooted in sexism because it assumes women can’t fight and men are meant to.

Reptilian_Brain_420 · 2022-03-22T00:45:34+00:00

All sorts of rights tend to go out the window during wars.

I can't believe the amount of bellyaching around here about conscription in Ukraine. You guys realize that they tend to have a VERY different outlook on things over there compared to the US right? Both sexes realize that they have different rights/responsibilities and privileges. Those responsibilities vary depending on whether the country is being invaded or not.

Don't like it? Don't move there.

Mitk0o0o · 2022-03-22T08:07:59+00:00

Do not agree. I follow this sub for a long time, but here is where I draw the line. Protecting your country is your duty. This has nothing to do with rights. Men and women are not equal in that respect and can never be. Some old timer once said, a man who doesn't protect his home is not a man, and a woman who doesn't give birth is no woman.

c1tr1c_ac1d · 2022-03-22T02:44:29+00:00

Women's rights were paused for 1000s of years. Just remember that it was men who caused this war

Creative-Mammoth9199 · 2022-03-22T06:54:56+00:00

The point is to reinforce this recognition that words dont refer to anything. they never really refered to reality but now more than ever thy dont

Fair_West · 2022-03-22T18:25:23+00:00

Which government had ever given its people rights, men or women?

Suddenly_Sisyphus42 · 2022-03-26T17:06:35+00:00

If the government can take away your rights you definitely don't have rights, you have privileges.

2022-03-28T01:42:29+00:00

It makes no sense that women can just complain ("fight") for more privileges while men have had to WORK AND DIE for theirs.

Title	If men's rights have to be put on pause during war, then men don't really have rights.
Author	Razorbladekandyfan
Upvotes	1605
Comments	344
Date	March 21, 2022 11:13 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/tjou3t/if_mens_rights_have_to_be_put_on_pause_during_war/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/if-mens-rights-have-to-be-put-on-pause-during-war.1108176 https://theredarchive.com/post/1108176

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