I am a feminist, I want to have a friendly debate

Reasonable_Listen514 · 2023-01-13T01:18:00+00:00

Where to start...

Feminists have acquired equality in the west. I hear nothing out of feminists but toxicity and hatred of men. What are you fighting for now?

Feminists fought for equal rights. You got them. But you did not give up your female privledge and demand equal responsibilities in society. You don't even recognize female privledge. You did not fight to be required to register for Selective Service like men. You did not fight to be treated equally to men in family court or in criminal sentencing.

Feminists keep pushing the wage gap lie, when its accounted for my men working more dangerous jobs, more labor intensive jobs, and working more hours annually on average. You don't take into account that women choose lower paying careers like teaching, and are choosing against pursuing STEM despite all the scholarships and other incentives to do so. You demand more women as CEOs, but have no issue with 95%+ of shitty jobs like trash collection being done by men.

A woman doesn't choose to be a mother until she gives birth, but a man chooses parenthood when he ejaculated. You make damn sure a woman can kill a baby to get out of parenthood, but I hear a completely different tune out of fems anytime anyone mentions a man being able to opt out of parenthood.

You pushed for the Duluth DV model which automatically assumes the man to be the villain in any DV situation, despite the woman being the violent party about half the time. Male victims exists, and they get arrested or humiliated if they call for help.

You've destroyed the nuclear family in the west by pushing no-fault divorce laws and sexual degeneracy.

You fight against false SA accusers being held accountable, and want accused men to face punishment without evidence or due process.

Males are falling behind, and feminists obstruct efforts to help boys and men. I watched feminists protest a men's suicide awareness event. Women now account for 60% of college degrees. Yet female only scholarships and other programs to encourage more women to go to college still exist. No such programs exist for men.

Fems aren't interested in equality. They're fighting for superiority and privledge at thit point.

And there is no patriarchy. Maybe in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia, but not in the west.

Stunning-Cost-5752 · 2023-01-13T00:34:10+00:00

My mother is a feminist even volunteered at the local women's shelter cause "domestic violence is horrible" anything bad happened to women she would pick up the cause.

Meanwhile my childhood sucked filled with physical and emotional abuse sprinkle in some sexual abuse. 5 days with a broken arm at 8yo no problem CPS got involved but single mothers are just fucking amazing and can't do wrong even when I begged to go to foster care so I was left, got sexually abused at 11 but that doesn't happen to boys so don't matter, get thrown out of the house multiple times? Just tell the cops I ran away problem solved. Finally break down pull a knife cause no one else will protect me get locked up and anger management. Moved out at 16 joined the army at 17 been homeless twice eaten out of garbage cans.... But hey that shit don't matter I'm privileged

Reddit1984Censorship · 2023-01-13T00:02:43+00:00

My antifeminism developed over the years as i observed more and more how disposable i am to society as a male and how feminism fuels itself on male disposability like a predator over its pray bleeding corpse.

Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 · 2023-01-13T00:59:09+00:00

Was attacked by not stating the appropriate term or terms on a thread.

Accused of being a dude when I'm a woman , was learning, maneuvering my way around ,and was literally booted for asking questions.

Found out by reading different responses a good majority of women feel oppressed, unsure why, as I'm a woman with a career, and when asked why they feel oppressed, was blocked from a conversation cause I didnt follow their thinking exactly.

Have 3 sons, who are respectful ,and are not rapists.

Seems a good handful of ladies want to see all men die. Cause supposedly all men are rapists. It's hard to decipher who does or doesn't want this as I was blocked from asking questions on threads.

Dapper_Beautiful_559 · 2023-01-13T00:48:04+00:00

Women in first world countries do not suffer anymore than men do. Feminists in first world countries are the most entitled people on the planet. They do not care about equality. Who knows what they care about, but it is not equality, because they already have it.

sangramz · 2023-01-13T02:25:18+00:00

If we leave top 1-5% men, rest of the men struggle very hard in their life and become successful lately, now these men generally are treated very badly by women in their life unless they become successful. It's so open that every other guy doing great in life becomes kind of anti-women by late 20s.

edit: i mean no one can say that we are privileged anyway, we earned via cut throat competition, now a random women comes and asks for equal benefits without any responsibility, commitment and plays victim card by accusing falsely.

For a generation or two, they were told if you treat women equally then women will treat you back equally and share responsibilities. It's far from the reality. Women generally look for the dominant men and please them and ask for equal benefits without taking equal responsibilities, all the while mistreating rest of the men who didn't objected their feminist privileges

Then there's a stats, women generally are unhappy without traditional family. I found women being homemaker and typical feminine being are more happy.

Desrep2 · 2023-01-13T05:17:31+00:00

Firstly, huge props to you for starting this debate! Secondly, even more props for being very nuanced!

My main reason for being "anti feminist" is that i consider myself very anti-idiocy. And the modern waves of feminism is the reason behind stuff like:

KillAllMen,

#TeachMenNotToRape (putting 100% of the blame for rape on men/ saying that rape against men aren't important) #TeachHimNotToHitHer (same as previous)

BelieveWomen (Due process, innocent untill proven guilty and fair trail are to be thrown out the window when it's a woman who makes an acusation against a man)

The DearDaddy campaign, painting all men as horrible predators

Plus the endless amount of stupidity people like Big Red can get away with under the guise of "Feminism"

Lasttoflinch · 2023-01-13T01:34:10+00:00

Perhaps I'm a outlier but I don't readily associate with designations like feminist or anti-feminist or their counterparts. That doesn't mean I don't believe in the core ideals (e.g. men and women should have equal rights and opportunities) of certain strains of feminism. In fact, such ideals are shared with certain strains of masculism. I merely believe that people should be regarded as individuals first and foremost.

erilaz123 · 2023-01-13T03:07:02+00:00

Why is it that feminist ignores these facts, and typically answers with "thats not my type of feminism":

A example: Feminism has always been full of nasty females. Take, for example, Emmeline Pankhurst and Admiral Charles Penrose Fitzgerald who sent many young men, as young as 15-16 years old, straight into the blender of blood, flesh, death, suffering and mud that World War I was.

The white feathered brigade as they were called saw themselves as guardians of the English Spirit, and all men were to do their duty for the flag.

Giving a white feather to a man in civilian clothes was really a brilliant tactic because it worked on so many different levels. Not only did it make men feel ashamed, but it also made them feel that they were not good enough for these women.

Many had questioned the morale of such a campaign from the very beginning, but now that these White Feather women began to accuse war veterans who had been wounded in the service of their country, the public began to have far greater problems with this tactic. These incidents only increased as the war dragged on because more and more men were sent back to England with war wounds and amputations.

The White Feather campaign was an obvious attack on masculinity and an overt manipulation of gender in the pursuit of national recruitment. There was no finesse in the actions of these women, their tactics were clear for all to see.

Withdrawal of sexual desire and the public shame of a man were clear signs of a well-thought-out recruitment operation. The public knowledge about the gender attack behind the White Feather campaign did not make it any less effective, but it also led to disgust and hatred towards the women who dared to participate. It was a patriotic movement, but it was still an ugly way to do things.

One of the reasons why this campaign was successful was that these English women were seen as innocent, beautiful and pure. Women were the milder sex, and that is why criticism from them caused such pain.

It was a loss of femininity, women should be kind and caring, the mothers of the nation! It was unheard of and unthinkable that this level of cruelty and defiance in women even existed!

Young girls even used the white feather to get rid of troublesome boyfriends.

They even made a "services rendered" aka The Silver War Badge medal so those who had participated was spared the shame of receiving a white feather.

Feminists even tried to pull this stunt off again in WW2, but without any success.

A white feather left a mark on every man who got one, a shame they never forgot.

Also,- when little girls have protection by the law against genital mutilation,- why doesn't little boys have the same?

This and many other issues, blatantly disregard of facts and statistics, hypocrisy is the cause of me being critical to the feminists movement.

Also, if I were to ask critical questions on any feminist reddit I whould have been banned and kicked out within a minute.

adam-l · 2023-01-13T04:22:41+00:00

You should watch The Red Pill documentary, made by an inquisitive feminist.

It's available on YouTube for a small pay.

Dumboddball · 2023-01-13T03:19:22+00:00

What makes you take an initiative to want to talk to us? That is my question to you, because I view feminism as out to destroy us men, not talk and understand.

_name_of_the_user_ · 2023-01-13T13:13:11+00:00

I greatly appreciate that you're taking the time to hear us out. I wish more feminists would be open minded and seek other opinions. I myself was a feminist before I realized how damaging the ideology is.

Feminism is about "equality" only when looking a very small number of metrics and vehemently and violently denying the existence of any other metrics. The ones that are ignored are anything that shows women's privileges and men's disadvantages. The ones feminism will acknowledge are the ones that show men's privileges and women's disadvantages. That's not equality, it's supremacy.

It is my opinion that women are still not equal to men. Before I list some examples, I do want to say that I agree men are more prone to struggle with things such as child custody, suicide rates, and incarceration rate. And I believe feminism should help them too.

My issue with this is that while you acknowledge the differences you still think women are more deserving of support than men, instead of equally as deserving.

The examples I was talking about include but are not limited to

I'll go through these one at a time.

the overturning of Roe V Wade,

That is unfortunate, but where's the push for both sexes to have parental rights? Men should have a way to exercise their parental and reproductive rights as well yet there's no outcry for it. Meanwhile women still have emergency contraceptives, abortion pills, abortion for health reasons, abortion for personal reasons in most states, safe haven sites, and adoption. I'm pro choice for all, but I've yet to find a single feminist who's pro choice for men and women so I have a really hard time sympathizing.

women being more prone to sexual assault (not to say it doesn’t happen in men)

Not true. The CDC's studies show a very similar rate for men and women being sexually assaulted, and a similar rate of male and female perpetrators. The issue is that male rape is erased by making the definition intentionally sexist so male rape is definitionally called made to penetrate.

sexualization,

Men are sexualized by women as well. In fact I would argue much more so when you see the way grown middle age women publically fall all over themselves for their preferred Twilight dude or one direction dude or whoever the favor of the week is.

On top of that is the saying "women are sex objects, men are success objects". The way we are objectified can take a different form, but it's still objectification and still harmful.

gender roles and expectations (women are supposed to stay at home with the kids and not work),

Men are to go to work and not see their kids. Again this is sexist to both sexes. But I would argue that being around family is something most people seek and going to work is something most people seek to do less. Also, the work place death rate is further evidence that while those roles do harm women, they harm men more.

people not believing women’s countless allegations to later find out a man was in fact guilty (examples include larry nassar, R kelly, ect.),

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233717660_Thirty_Years_of_Denying_the_Evidence_on_Gender_Symmetry_in_Partner_Violence_Implications_for_Prevention_and_Treatment

Men are believed even less. Yes that's an issue for women, it's a larger issue for men.

proven rapists serving little to no time (bill cosby),

Innocent until proven guilty/due process is a human right for a reason and rape is exceedingly hard to prove. This isn't sexist, it's a flaw in the system that no one has found a better way ahead for.

women not taken as seriously in male dominated fields,

Men aren't taken seriously in female dominated fields at equal rates.

workplace harassment,

Happens to men in female dominated work places as well with less support and even less likely to be believed. In fact men are often expected to enjoy sexual harassment.

military harassment,

The military is just another workplace, why did you single this one out?

doctors not taking a womans pain seriously,

There was an article about this recently that mentioned the crying wolf aspect of how often women and men go to the hospital and how the difference in treatment could be attributed to that, and then completely glossed over it. I'm aware of and agree there is a difference in the level of care. But considering the empathy gap that exists everywhere else I have a hard time believing it's due to misogyny and not another bias/cause. Happy to discuss more but I don't think there's enough evidence to draw any conclusions.

and and violence against women of color and trans women being largely unpunished.

This one actually shocks me. Why did this make your list? Men of color face vastly more violence than any other group and violence against trans men is based in them being AMAB.

StalthChicken · 2023-01-13T14:57:05+00:00

I’m just here cause the boys league in the town sponsored baseball team was eliminated. I would have put him in coed if I was looking for a place for him to interact with all kids. I just wanted him to be in a place where boys can be boys. I things like this happening to much and it has made me bitter towards the feminist movement.

kuruman67 · 2023-01-13T17:00:02+00:00

Not seeing any comments on your profile of you calling out toxic feminist behavior. Do you do that?

Why call yourself a feminist? Why not humanist or egalitarian?

Digital_Demon7 · 2023-01-13T05:33:15+00:00

overturning of Roe V Wade

If abortion is allowed, it is totally woman's choice. Fathers don't have say in it.

Women can choose not to have a baby or give it up for adoption. Men can't. They are enslaved and forced to pay child support and thrown into prison if they don't.

women being more prone to sexual assault

Happens to men too.

sexualization

Men are also sexualized by women. And women serialise themselves too.

gender roles and expectations

Men are expected to work and provide for women and children. They are not allowed to stay home and spend time with kids. Also expected to protect women.

people not believing women’s countless allegations to later find out a man was in fact guilty

People also don't believe when men are raped by women. Most countries don't even recognise that men can be raped by women.

Also there are a lot of false allegations against men which ruin men's lives. And when it is proved that woman was lying, she does not get any punishment.

proven rapists serving little to no time (bill cosby),

A lot of proven women rapists serve little to no time ( I'll edit later with examples). Women proven to be lying about rape have no consequences.

women not taken as seriously in male dominated fields

And men are not taken seriously in female dominated fields.

workplace harassment

Faced by men too. And BY women.

military harassment,

Faced by men more. Men are raped by other men in military. Men are forced to fight wars and die while the women are allowed to leave country, and live normal lives somewhere else.

doctors not taking a womans pain seriously,

Happens with men too.

violence against women of color and trans women being largely unpunished

Same with men.

Other inequality against men:

Child custody

Always assumed to be aggressive

Assumed to be violent

Assumed to be abusive

Assumed to be rapists

Assumed to be pedophiles

Can't be seen with their own kids without police called on them.

Their masculinity called toxic.

A lot more men in prison than women (let's equalise that)

Have to do more dangerous jobs

A lot more likely to die in jobs

Lack of empathy

Overrepresented in professions like bricklaying, plumbing, etc (let's equalise that)

Higher suicide rates but lesser resources for help

Poor performance in school

Scholarships discriminate against men

More women in colleges

Shelters prioritise women

Considered disposable. (Headlines like 15 killed, including 2 women)

No make teachers for boys

Female teachers give advantages to girls.

I can go on...

RyanAS522 · 2023-01-13T00:18:09+00:00

If I could explain why I’m against feminism as briefly as possible, it’s this: In the natural order, men have their place in society and women have their place. Feminism seeks to overturn this order.

flaky_frost · 2023-01-13T00:40:49+00:00

I became an anti feminist through both media and personal experiences . And just out of nowhere I'm telling this that media and the people who are in the forefront of your movement are not doing it any favors. I don't think I need to explain the media part hopefully but the personal experience part . I grew up in a traditional family (the kind that marriage was a ride or die commitment) and then I saw the women and girls around me using men's emotians (and love and relationships to an extend) as a leverage for either money or to just feed their ego treating men like a sickness and blaming every man just because he was born that way . And expecting the world but not giving anything for it in return . I'm pretty sure you've seen this kind of behavior around you .

yournumberplease · 2023-01-13T03:02:28+00:00

A list about feminism misandry for anyone who thinks that feminism fights for men’s rights, for anyone who thinks that feminism was only a sexist movement starting from the third wave and for anyone who accuse the MRM of being a sexist movement, while still defending feminism.

1st wave: In WW1, prominent feminists and suffragettes of the time, such as Emmeline Pankhurst, the leader of the British suffragette movement who helped women win the right to vote and her daughter Christabel, co-founder of the Women's Social and Political Union joined the Order of the White Feather, an organization aimed to shame men into enlisting in the British army by persuading women to present them with a white feather if they were not wearing a uniform. They, in addition to handing out the feathers, also lobbied to institute an involuntary universal draft, which included those who lacked votes due to being too young or not owning property.
Several hateful and misandrist quotes from political and famous feminists,1st, 2nd and 3rd waves, for example:

"The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race." — Sally Miller Gearhart, in The Future - If There Is One - Is Female.

"To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he’s a machine, a walking dildo." _Valerie Solanas, Authoress of the SCUM Manifesto

infinitofluxo · 2023-01-13T03:53:47+00:00

Women are not equal to men. We may all deserve mostly the same rights but it does not mean a woman can replace a man or a man can replace a woman. We can't live without each other. Women will never want or be able to perform as effectively a lot of jobs that require the physiology of a man.

Also, there is a lot more than just a few bad apples in the feminist movement. They were always misandrist and even made terrorist attacks. Feminists shamed men for not going to war while getting the right to vote that cost men going to war.

The way feminists ignore how terrible it is that men has always gone to war while you were protected by their efforts is just obscene.

Men must be recognized for what they contribute to society and all the sacrifice they make to give you the world we live in. Men die earlier and die more often than women.

You want the right to work and not be raped or humiliated? I agree with you and would be by your side always, as I have loved women and would never side with men doing this kind of harm to you. Completely unacceptable.

Feminists don't admit wrong doings, it is always men's fault. There is no patriarchy because I don't see men giving any easy time for working class men. They all suffer a lot and are judged by the women they try to be with as losers for not getting more money.

The fact that there are more men in positions of power only means that there is a class above everyone else, exploiting everyone. It wouldn't be different if it was women there. Women are also evil and warmongers as the rest of humanity.

Most people here are not misogynists, but humbled men tired of this bullshit.

goaliedude1808 · 2023-01-13T08:43:30+00:00

I believe most of the countries who have the most vocal "feminists" are doing so well that people are making mountains out of anthills. The lowest hanging fruit of current feminism is the "wage gap" and the "pink tax". The pink tax is easy because if it "costs more for the same exact item" then buy the cheaper item, most comparisons are not "of the same item".

The wage gap should actually be called the earnings gap and it's not an issue. At least it hasn't been demonstrated to be an issue in a long time. Wage discrimination is already illegal, if you can prove wage discrimination the government will force your employer to reimburse you. The numbers that exist that are being used to support the narrative are the wrong numbers and they're being used incorrectly. It also doesn't take into account how society treats men and why men are willing to work themselves to death but women aren't.

I don't find the term feminism useful. You should just call the movement humanism, it's not gendered (unless you really hate that huMAN has the word man in it). I guess we should call it homosapienism? Like I don't know how to make everyone happy.

From personal experience, it's almost impossible for me to take women's stories at face value without some kind of evidence. I have watched women in my life turn on me and spread lies about me. Multiple women in a row, major lies. One almost got me fired, one almost sent me to prison for up to 20 years. One actually did put stalking charges against me in 2020 when I haven't seen her since 2010, it caused me to get denied for housing and almost cost me a job and overall cost $11,000 to fight when I was making ~$30,000 a year. I tend to stay out of these conversations because I realized I'm biased a certain way because of my experience.

I don't trust any human to be an objective observer or healthy communicator until they demonstrate their ability. Most interpersonal relationships fail and explode because both parties are terrible at communicating (most humans are dumb). Domestic violence isn't a men vs women issue, it's a human issue. We need to teach our humans to communicate and behave in a healthy manner. We also have absolutely no way to track the abuse women enact on men because (men are larger and physically scary) women don't act out in physical ways in most cases.

Baseline I could possibly qualify to land under the feminist umbrella but I don't find it useful, I find the term polarizing for no good reason and it gets in the way of actually solving anything.

It's a bit late, maybe I rambled and a lot of this needs to be unpacked more but.. yeah. I want everyone prosper and currently everyone is at war with each other over stupid stuff.

Fast-Mongoose-4989 · 2023-01-13T03:18:44+00:00

I can't consider my self a feminist because of all the harm its done and a bunch of issues it creates.

My problems are with all the scholarships and other financial assistance women get paid for by the tax payers but men get no equivalent and let's not forget the draft our selective service.

Feminism keeps a lot of what's harmful for men and boy going and in some cases makes it worse because it's beneficial for women and girls like the beneficial way the school system favors girls and discriminate against boys by marking them more harshly and disciplining them more often and more severely then girls who exhibit the exact same behavior.

strauzimausi · 2023-01-13T01:10:30+00:00

I mainly take issue with 4th wave feminists.

I dont like people claiming men and women think the same or have the same wants.

I dont like how equality of outcome is pushed.

Im sure most feminist would tend to agree but i get the feeling that most of them dont even realize how reliant on the two statements above they are.

Sexism exist sure.( for both genders) I do however only see legal inequalities towards men. Not negating that socially it might be differnent, altough i personally dont prescribe to that notion.

Other things modern feminist now try to implement as good are actually harmfull.

hook up culture

Gender quotas

Fat acceptance ( this is more wokeism than feminism but nowadays they are often hard to seperate)

Praising people for getting abortions (im pro choice up until 3 months)

In general the willingnes of the media to TRASH men. (Not feminism per se but it does feed into the circle jerk of man hating)

Women and girl get told to fear men sometimes even hate.

Boys and men get told to hate themselves and apologize for existing

Feminism advocates for masculine women and feminine men. Both are unwanted by the other gender.

Example: men dont cry cuz patriarchy. Maybe it has something to do with proportionally bigger tear ducts and less “cry hormones“

The patriarchy in general. A horrible toxic idea.

Feminism or wokism as a label machine. Everything gets a label everythibg gets categorized. Feeds right into tribal hatefull thinking.

And on and and on.

Ill be happy to respond.

BigBlueWookiee · 2023-01-13T03:24:30+00:00

There's a difference between what feminism ought to mean and how it is actually manifested in today's society.

Feminism ought to be about equality. Instead it is manifested as sexism against men.

Let me be clear, men and women are different. And, that's a good thing. It allows us to cover more - together.

Modern feminism instead seeks to further divide us. It supposes that women are superior to men, but cherry pick their fights while claiming that those things that do not favor their side are false due to some mystical conspiracy.

In today's day, we have enough that divides us. Instead we should be looking for ways to bring each other together. We are stronger that way.

So why am I against modern feminism? It manifests itself as a dividing force when that is the least of our needs; infact our enemy.

ScottdaDM · 2023-01-13T01:43:57+00:00

Hmmmm.

First a question. What rights does a man have that a woman doesn't? I am in the US, and I don't know of any.

I have no problem with equality of opportunity. That is a splendid doctrine to follow. But modern feminists, from what I can tell, also want equality of outcome. And that is a horrible doctrine. It has led to atrocious human rights abuses everywhere it has been tried.

What or where is this Patriarchy? I keep hearing about it. Seems like some cabal. I have been a man on this Earth for more than four decades. I didn't get so much as a secret decoder ring. So WTF? I hear a lot about the halls of power being populated by men. But they don't give a fuck about me. Or you. Or women in general. These folks work 80 hour weeks because winning is their only joy. And if they aren't winning every moment, then they are a loser. No in between. Second place is the first loser. They're sociopaths and narcissists. And the women who do get that far are the same way. These folks don't give a fuck if you're male or female. They just want to beat you. And men are more competitive. A sociopathic woman could do these things...or they could just get these men to buy them stuff. Which is easier? Why compete? Unless you just want to, but that kinda dovetails into my thoughts here. So where is this Patriarchy? Seems like the Patriarchy of the 1%.

The other part of that is that I have never seen a feminist talk about equalizing the Patriarchy of high tension line workers. Or sanitation workers. Or speak on the inequality in prison sentences. Only in the halls of power. Seems suspicious to me.

Let's talk about the rights women have that men don't. Like the right to decide whether or not to be financially responsible for their child. Abortion, adoption, and government help are there for women. Peachy. But a man is on the hook no matter what. Even though they had an equal role begetting said child. If a woman can't afford to pay for her child, she gets WIC. If a man can't afford to pay, he gets imprisoned. Is this equality? A woman can move her children across the country, deny a man any right to see his children, and lie about him in court ..and no consequences. A woman can put the wrong guy's name on a birth certificate with full knowledge she is lying, and no consequences for her. He, in the other hand, is now legally responsible for that child. That he had no hand in begetting. Doesn't seem equal to me.

Men take up more than 80% of the homeless rate and more than 70% of the suicide rate. And no one cares. They're just men. I have seen feminists cheer these numbers and wish them to increase. Disgusting! No one cares about men. There are Kill All Men hashtags. But if you flipped that to Kill All Women, you would be attacked. But it's ok if it's men.

Ever seen a channel or post from a wife that wants to be traditional? The feminists come out of the woodwork to attack and belittle her. Why? Isn't choice the point? Why are they so vicious to their own? It smacks of someone attacking dissent because their own position is insecure. Is feminist ideology so weak?

Feminists, second wave feminists, espoused that killing the nuclear family would free women. Pretty openly. That women could do it all. Hold down a career, kids, social life and have it all. What a load of horseshit! My wife and I are raising two kids, and we relied on friends, family, daycares, and all sorts of folks. And that's with two of us. It's a lie.

All of this, taken together, leads me to believe that feminism isn't about equality. There was a time when feminists marched for men's equality, too. It was 1971. Wouldn't happen today. Because feminists are about superiority. I have never met a woman as entitled as a feminist. It's right in the name. It isn't egalitarianism. It's feminism. And what have you all done to heal this world with your new power? All I have seen is women adopting the worst habits of men and calling it empowering.

I am a man looking at all this....and you ask why I am anti feminist? It's almost comedic. What man, looking at this, would say... it's fine? Screw me in divorce and make me pay for your children? Whether or not they're mine. What?

I could ramble on more, but that is enough to be going on with, isn't it?

PactScharp · 2023-01-13T02:16:51+00:00

Feminism is a supremacist hate cult. It's basically a form of gender religion, where "patriarchy" is the devil and masculinity is "original sin". That's why - like religion - it's so deeply dogmatic and incredibly obsessed with absolute control and power over all of society. If feminism were truly about choice (and it's not), then feminists would celebrate women who reject the feminist label, but they don't. In fact, feminists attack these women and treat them like garbage because they dared to challenge the sisterhood.

Regardless of feminism's clearly pathological structure, the fact of the matter is that its most critical and important belief, "the patriarchy", is not a scientific analysis of society. It's NOT "objectively" true because there is no such thing. Which is why you can't prove its existence and can barely even define it. But worst of all, the "patriarchy" claim, is EXTREMELY misandrist, down to the core.

All feminists believe in patriarchy theory. Patriarchy theory is objectively misandrist. Ergo, all feminists are bigots and misandrist by default.

I'm not here saying that all feminists are mong the "Kill All Men" types. I'm sure that there are "many" feminists who are truly so twisted by feminist indoctrination, that they think they're innocent of misandry... but here's the thing, IGNORANCE and INNOCENSE are NOT the same thing. Just because feminists are so clueless about their own bigotry & truly believe themselves to be good people, doesn't change the fact that they perpetuate a supremacist hate cult with a misandrist framework.

Feminists always respond with "loud minority" bullshit, but the thing is, you don't call them out... and even if you did, it wouldn't change the fact that feminism is inherently destructive... then you go over to the argument claiming that feminism is "just about equality". But if it was, why don't you call yourselves egalitarians? Why are you so emotionally invested in the "feminist" label? Because YOU KNOW it's not about "equality". It's about power for women. Plain and simple.

And that's just the start. This is me explaining to you very shortly how the feminist framework itself is completely rotten to the core. The next step would be explaining how feminism has oppressed and discriminated against men for the last 200 years. But frankly, that would require me to write out a whole freaking book.

In short, there is simply no excuse for being a feminist.

M_Salvatar · 2023-01-13T03:53:52+00:00

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCUM_Manifesto

https://cfshrc.org/article/scum-manifesto-as-a-rhetoric-of-domination/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

Feminism is about taking power from men and giving it to women. But not just power, the very idea of women's rights essentially states that the law be written to give certain rights to women, and not men. Hence the phrase "women's rights are human rights, not human rights are women's rights." That is in the first instance, rights written specifically for women are okay because women are humans; in the second instance, right written specifically for humans also include women. Feminism is essentially a fascist movement, with rhetoric that's quite similar to nazis and imperialists. Whenever you enter a place of feminists, their way is the only way. In every aspect, and without fail, every feminist promotes misandry, benefits from gynocentrism and fully supports any action that reduces men.

So having a discussion on the same is rather pointless...especially with a feminist. Like trying to tell Hitler all races are equal. SCUM manifesto taught me enough about the deeper aspects of feminism.

CentralAdmin · 2023-01-13T08:46:53+00:00

It is my opinion that women are still not equal to men.

You are right. Women have more rights than men in the west.

Even though you note women have lost a bit regarding Roe vs Wade, it was still more than men had. And women can go to another state to get an abortion where it is legal if they need to. I am not saying it is ideal, but it is there.

No one should force a woman to have a kid against her will. However, we allow women so much freedom to force men to be parents against their will, we even allow men to be held accountable when they have been raped. This extends to minors as well:

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/arizona/politics/2014/09/02/arizona-statutory-rape-victim-forced-pay-child-support/14951737/

He was a statutory rape victim who was forced to pay child support. How would we have reacted to a man who raped a teenager and forced her to have his child? Imagine your son being thousands in debt because he was too young to consent. At least women have a way out if they need it. You cannot consider this equality at all. Women still have more rights than men do.

Women also don't have to sign up for the draft to be eligible to vote or to have certain jobs. Women got that right without having to die for it. Meanwhile black people and those who fought for independence against the British (mostly men) had to put their lives on the line to get the right to vote.

The problem with seeking the level of equality feminists want is that it doesn't exist. Look at what happened in Norway and other Scandinavian countries. They have the Gender Equality Paradox. They are the most feminist nations, proud displays of equality, and yet women still tend to choose jobs that are more in the humanities while men tend to go after the more technical jobs (like STEM).

Women generally don't do the dirty jobs men do. They have to have the bar lowered to get physically demanding jobs like in the military or as firefighters. In white collar jobs, they tend to only see the rich, white men at the top as "truly equal" and then are mad that there aren't Ellen Musks in the world with hundreds of billions of dollars.

Yet they don't want to do the jobs men do not take the risks they do. The richest woman in the world - Jeff Bezos' ex wife - got there because she divorced a rich guy. Not because she started a company.

This isn't to shit talk women. What I am against is the belief that men are holding women back and all men should cop some blame or be held responsible for this. It's those rich assholes at the top who are fucking all of us and gender isn't to blame. Otherwise they would be making all men rich and subduing women in the process.

Meanwhile men are 3/4 of the homeless population, die earlier, are more likely to die on the job (doing the dirty work that needs to get done), they have no domestic violence shelters despite evidence that women are beating them more than men are beating women:

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-psychiatrist/article/domestic-violence-is-most-commonly-reciprocal/C5432B0C6F8F61B49A4E2B60B931FA07#:~:text=In%20recent%20years%20researchers%20have,an%20excess%20of%20violent%20women.

in a study of 14 000 young US couples aged 18-28 years, found that 24% of relationships had some violence and half of those were reciprocally violent. In 70% of the non-reciprocally violent relationships women were the perpetrators of violence.

This is excluding the expectation they be willing to lay down their lives when the invading hordes come in war.

In terms of gender roles, men have largely freed women of their roles while women have not offered the same in return. A man must be okay with a woman who doesn't want to be a homemaker but she will not be okay with a homemaker husband:

https://abc7chicago.com/cornell-university-researchers-blame-the-decline-of-us-marriages-on-a-shortage-economically-attractive-men-for-unmarried-women-to-marry/5528921/

There they blamed the marriage decline on the fact that men were not earning enough for women. And the ideal man was someone who earned 60% above the national average. That's insane!

A man must be tall, in shape, wealthy and preferably good looking. He must know how to be dominant and when to be submissive. He must not place too much expectation on her in return, especially regarding sex. If she decides to stop sleeping with her partner years into the marriage he will be starved of sex or risk breaking apart his family in order to feel love and intimacy again. Meanwhile she continues to receive the benefits of his labour.

Speaking of labour, women complain about housework and child care but ignore the fact that men generally do more physically demanding jobs. They also work more hours than women on average:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/06/30/new-report-men-work-longer-hours-than-women/?sh=4f77e86518b4

And they often have to do the dirty jobs at home that women don't like doing, such as plumbing, home maintenance, yard work, electrical and tech installations and maintenance, and even repairing or maintaining a car.

This comes down to gender roles once again. When men do complain about these issues they are often shamed or told that women have it worse. Women would not stand being treated the way men are.

Go read Self Made Man by Norah Vincent for a perspective on what it was like for a woman to live as a man. She eventually concluded that being a woman was more of a privilege. Also watch The Red Pill documentary for more information. Karen Straughan also has loads of information on feminism and how it operates. It isn't just a matter of some evil people sneaking in and tweeting KillAllMen. Feminism is rotten to the core.

kwolfburg · 2023-01-13T04:26:16+00:00

I grew up believing that men and women were equal. We had differing strong and weak points but together we were unstoppable. As I have grown older I have heard too many say that men are the problem. I really dislike it. Hate it actually because it is something I would never say about women.

Ninjas4cool · 2023-01-13T05:19:21+00:00

My issue with feminism isn’t the issue itself which I agree raises valid points but in the way that it almost absentmindedly dismisses the male population as a single unified entity. Feminism:great on paper,in practice not so much

_BeyondEverything_ · 2023-01-13T07:00:25+00:00

XX and XY can never be same.

waterjug82 · 2023-01-13T14:06:28+00:00

I remember I had a feminist boss and she’d frequently say things like “men are trash” “kill all men” “ I hate all men I’m a feminist”. And then the ones I see online usually aren’t much better. It’s all just hate.

Heimeri_Klein · 2023-01-13T14:18:52+00:00

Well as a man who knows other men who were sexually abused and being one who was being groomed as a child. I think that the rape of men, and sexual abuse rate is higher than is believed in statistics. The reason im saying this is men more often than not never come forward due to societal pressures. My brother never came forward to the public because he was afraid of being seen as weak, afraid to be called a liar because hes a man and the person who did it was a really good liar and manipulative woman. I never came forward about my grooming till a few years ago for very personal reasons. I will also say the male suicide rate is a lot higher because men dont have as many support circles where they can feel comfortable talking about how they feel. Therapy like going to the doctor makes a lot of men uncomfortable. Bad experiences with therapists also push those that were ok with therapy away. Then due to men having smaller social circles they begin to feel alone in their struggles. Thats not always true though but a lot of men bottle up their feelings because were not taught how to deal with them in a healthy way.

UnableLocal2918 · 2023-01-13T19:19:59+00:00

abortion. although i dislike the idea of abortion i break it down to the trimester. 1st trimester on demand 2nd trimester extreme genetic damage flaws. 3rd trimester mothers life at risk only. now having said that the sheer number of on demand abortions in the united states. this means that a huge number of women are NOT being resposiable and using contracetpion.
https://usafacts.org/data/topics/people-society/health/maternal-early-childhood-health/reported-abortions/?share=425398&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=ND-StatsData&msclkid=391ced7c6ac41a6a84358ebdcdd7c165.
as to rape. rape is a crime and should be punished but when a man tries to accuse a woman they are laughed at even though woman like amy schumer, cardi b and others admit to it. also amber heard proving women abuse men. again when a man tries to bring the charges they are laughed at. so how do you as a femminist feel about vocally supporting men when these charges are brought or do you keep quite.
expectations and roles. women have sexualized themselevs for centuries. tic tok, only fans and others. but if a man does it it is wrong that is a double standard. if you want a career that is your choice but why do "femminists" berate women who choose a house wife role. TRADWIVES. why does their choice threaten you.
and what of the many allegations made by women against men that turned out to be false. amber heard,

https://thoughtcatalog.com/janet-bloomfield/2014/12/13-women-who-lied-about-being-raped-and-why-they-did-it/

6.also how would you deal with female child predators. 30% of convicted child molesters are women, also how do you feel like women who sell other women.

this is a start.

A_British_Villain · 2023-01-13T01:27:46+00:00

Feminism spent a solid part of the twentieth century claiming - insisting - that men and women are the same. That is where they lost me. (This idea is also deeply offensive to women I might add.)

After being proved wrong, their policies were reworded but remain unchanged to this day. For this reason feminism should be treated like any religious idea and kept separate from the state. Of course it isn't, I notice that feminist thought infects politics in many countries despite having zero votes and being, for no apparent reason, exempt from the open debate that democracy requires for all other political theory.

Feminism is the infallible church of our time.

wanderlust_12 · 2023-01-13T01:34:52+00:00

Everyone has a different reason for why they have problems with the modern feminism movement. For me, it’s the hatred and indifference towards men and the double standards that exist in society when it comes to both the genders. And when you have the whole media ecosystem that propagates this narrative that women are victims and it’s all men’s fault for everything. Not to forget, the court system that disproportionately favors women when it comes to child custody, DV, and alimony. And then the ‘believe all women’ bulls***t that destroyed so many innocent men’s lives. Oh did I forget how body shaming is perfectly fine but you do that to a women and you’re getting torched!

I can go on and on. But that’s enough rant for today. 😪

Anonman20 · 2023-01-13T01:37:23+00:00

Well not a feminist. Men and women are not the same. Nor are they equal. There should be equality under the law as it should be for everyone. However there seems to be special rights that women have in society that I have quite a bit of problem with. Men regularly get screwed in custody battles and divorce settlements. The sexual revolution was a disaster for humanity and we are still feeling the shocks of it.

Krispies2point0 · 2023-01-13T02:17:58+00:00

My issues are pretty simple -

I see equal pay initiatives which completely ignore the realities of the longer hours, more dangerous work and industry selection that create that gap. I work in tech and according to a recent Yale study that found just changing my name to a female one improves my chances of a call back by 41%.

I grew up in a time when we were de-gendering words like policeman -> police officer, fireman, etc. Now, hate speech is a-ok as long as it’s aimed at men. Girl Scouts? Sure! Boy scouts? Misogynist! What it seems that women (not all but in the aggregate) are interested in making the world fair for themselves only. The reality is an apex fallacy, just like the few women whose job is to be pretty and get flown around the world. So few men are actually in power that they are just as relatable to the average man as that IG model in Dubai the 3rd time this year is to the average working woman.

Along with those is the whole family law system which incentivizes women to lie to successful men, marry then and leave while enjoying their earnings until they retire. No fault divorce needs to be abolished, really spousal support in general (beyond maybe a transitional period or in exceptional cases like disability).

Right now, society is teaching women that they’re victims of things they didn’t even realize. I’m black, and I could probably find “micro aggressions” everywhere I look but I don’t go into every day with a chip on my shoulder, determined to be offended. I believe feminism teaches that women to seek out this feeling of victimization, to invoke pity and elicit empathy.

Anyway, if you are truly interested in a discussion, I’d be happy to elaborate on anything I’ve said. Also, if you feel I’m wrong and would like to rebut something, please do. I don’t mind coming off bad ideas if they’re truly bad ideas.

_Duriel_1000_ · 2023-01-13T02:03:40+00:00

What is your definition of a feminist?

Forward-Transition-5 · 2023-01-13T02:10:21+00:00

I would like to say I applaud you’re willingness to have a reasonable discussion here. We do tend to get feminists who are aggressive in their initial comment and then act like you’re the one being unreasonable when you don’t engage them or act courteous. My personal beliefs are based on my own experiences in the family court system during my divorce as well as the experiences of close friends and even some acquaintances. Before any debates could be had we need to define what feminism is in this context. What is your definition of feminism? Are there any specific pursuits that are more important to you than others within the feminist movement?

maexx80 · 2023-01-13T03:27:20+00:00

I agree with all the examples you gave where women are having a harder time than men. I am not sure if it "balances" out with where they have an easier time / men having it harder, but what I am annoyed about is if feminists depict it like there is this evil patriarchy where men are just a bunch of sexist, horny losers who don't take care of their children. As someone who greatly takes care to treat everyone equal, empower women in the workplace and support my wife and child I find this deeply offensive.

BrokenWingsQ · 2023-01-13T07:34:59+00:00

Im really happy how well behaved and actually appropriate you are and Im really happy how u actually came here to talk calmfully.

This is just thing I wanted to say

TheMorningJoe · 2023-01-13T11:01:14+00:00

I can guarantee you if someone from here went to a feminist sub and asked to same question you ask but reversed they will be met with so much scorn and be banned on the spot. That in a nutshell is why I see current wave feminism as a hate group.

Victor-_-X · 2023-01-13T12:11:07+00:00

I request the op to ask the same question in mensrights so as to get even more information, i think that both this subreddit and mensrights would be extremely welcoming.

Rongorongo2 · 2023-01-13T12:47:50+00:00

I agree with a lot of what you said, but disagree that it’s just a few bad apples, ruining the glorious crusade of feminism. Maybe there were once and it was a sensible movement for greater equality in things that made sense. Sure, a woman should get paid the exact same amount of money for the exact same amount of work, but feminism has become this monster destroying our culture, destroying women, destroying girls, destroying boys, destroying men. It can’t be just like 7 people in San Francisco doing this.

Basically, now it is a supremacy movement. They want to ruin everything anything men like, and then they want special advantages, special favors, basically the pussy pass on everything else. I know you want a real debate, but reddit is not such a great place for that.

Basically the moment

We get 50% parity in plumbers, truck drivers, coal miners, highway construction workers… you know the people that actually make the society function. Then you can get back to us about feminism. Middle class white women working in marketing departments in air conditioned offices, knocking off early for Cosmos… They have no right to speak on anything to do with society.
Women’s sports games are full of millions of women showing up and paying big money to watch them. Not! You are over 50% of the population and yes you have money. But you give nothing to your fellow women. You don’t even support them when men start competing with them in their own sports and then you want equal pay for completely unequal work. The hypocrisy is astounding, but completely in line with feminism.

Do those two things, the please get back to us about the glories of feminism. Right now you want to do no work whatsoever and get subsidized and special Golden stars.

abused_by_girlfriend · 2023-01-13T16:12:11+00:00

my main problem with feminism is that its not straightforward/honest.

noone amongst these 8 billion people in the world know what it actualy means, it has no actual leader or creator, it has noone setting the rules, it has no official agenda, no rulebook/brochure/whatever you like to call it.

look at feminism, there are feminist who want to kill all men(actualy), there are feminists who invaded the male suicide prevention event in canada, there are feminists that actualy want equality, there are feminists who only want equality where it benefit women, there are feminists who actualy want to hurt certain groups in women(like trans women).

there are all of these groups, and all of them claim they are the real feminist, all of them claim that the other groups are not the "real" feminists.

another problem is that the majority of feminists today are very toxic and hateful, or at minimum they have very questionable and dangerous views, and this can even be seen clearly on this very website in pretty much all feminist subs, they are at best hypocritical and at worst full on sexist.

its has been totally clear to me that the average feminist today, doesnt want to address womens issues, they only want to attack men, undervalue mens issues, etc...

this is while there are some places in the world that there are some actualy horrible things being done to women, this is all while a bunch of sexist feminists on reddit are trying so hard with mental gymnastics to find a way to justify that amber heard is the "imperfect victim"(whatever this absolute of a joke is).

this is sad, for both men and women. i belive feminism is dead, not as in that nobody follows it, but as in that nobody will be able to follow it properly anymore because it doesnt have any originality, sorry but at this point even an actual ape can stand up and claim that it is a feminist and set its own beliefs of what feminism actually is.

"(women are supposed to stay at home with the kids and not work), people not believing women’s countless allegations to later find out a man was in fact guilty (examples include larry nassar, R kelly, ect.), proven rapists serving little to no time (bill cosby), women not taken as seriously in male dominated fields, workplace harassment, military harassment, doctors not taking a womans pain seriously, and and violence against women of color and trans women being largely unpunished."

not to necessarily argue with those, but there are some of these things that kind of goes both ways, i mean sure i understand how pissed a woman would be because she has to stay at home and do the housework and not work outside and basicaly be barred from improving her life and going on carrier and scientific adventures and invent shit. but i can assure you that i as a man also hate this for the reverse reason that why a woman has to sit at home and just do some housework while i have to work my ass off to be able to give her money. not trying to be disrespectful or toxic, but thats just the reality of it, women think that they are house slaves of men, but men sometimes also think that men are money slave of women. now this can definitely be different in terms of how much it harms men or women in contrast. but my main point is that some of these feminist claims goes both ways and hurt or annoy both men and women, so you can be sure that most men hate those too.

also about the whole sentence and conviction thing, i think that it is clearly proven as day by now that men are discriminated against in the justice system, they get much longer sentences, look up mercedes carrera she is a pornstar that litteraly raped children and filmed them(i think), she had committed like 10 counts of rape and sexual assult, she didn't even go to prison, she went to jail for a few months and came back, and guess what she is continuing her work in pornography, the same job that she committed rape in, this is while men go to prison for decades, and in many countries executed for rape. apart from that, the whole bill cosby and r kelly, situation doesn't really have anything to do with gender anyways, its about this problem in society and law(especially the American law) that famous and rich don't get proper sentencing, there has been many rich women like this who didn't get sentenced for anything.

as for women not being taken seriously in male dominated fields it is kind of true, but again that doesnt realy have anything to do with sexism, happens to men as well, this is mostly about human toxic behaviour, and the fact that those fields are make dominated, which actualy brings me to a problem with feminism that i mentioned before, its never trying to address the actual issue, in this case for example instead of saying men are sexist and the world is sexist and women are not taken seriously, etc..., maybe address the issue, encourage women to go in those fields, this is the same story with feminists attacking companies who like microsoft who has 70%male 30%female employment(example not real numbers) the truth us that there is no sexism, microsoft is a software company, women in general statisticly dont have as much passion and reputation as men have in the software development field, then maybe feminism should address the real issue here and actualy encourage women to enter those fields.

let me give you example, feminism likes to attack a male director who pays an actress to go nude in a movie and sexualize her, but not to attack the woman who litteraly backstabed women and accepted money for sexualizing women. maybe not the best example, but i think my point is clear, feminism of today mainly focuses on harming men, painting men as evil, trash, violent, and at the same time paint women as angles by claiming that misandry doesnt exist because women have no power, and women can hurt or discriminate against men because they do not have power, and that all women are somehow raped and all men are somehow rapists(these are things that i have actualy seen being said and supportrd heavily by feminists with my own eyes).

kuruman67 · 2023-01-13T16:37:33+00:00

Reasonable _Listen covered many of the obvious things.

I have a few points about your post specifically.

Roe: you can see that as an attack on women but the argument is really about the potential rights of another human being. As such, I firmly believe that, if men had babies the argument would be exactly the same. I personally support abortion being available for purely practical reasons. But putting some limits on it is reasonable and there is nothing anti-women about that.

Sexualization: it’s easy to find videos of Henry Cavill being treated like a piece of meat by women on talk shows. There are memes about the double standards of magazines like Cosmo that write about the sexualization of women while simultaneously having articles displaying the bulges of male Olympic athletes. Examples are honestly endless and easy to find if someone is intellectually honest enough to look.

Gender roles: women are expected to stay home. Are they really? One of the biggest criticisms of feminism at this point is that proponents just say stuff like this and expect it to be accepted. It’s just not true. Traditional gender roles were borne out of necessity. Again, totally obvious if one is honest about it. Today, women can work or stay home or do a combo. They choose this themselves. In fact, I think women suffer from having more choice than men. Do you ever consider male gender roles? A man’s worth to society is purely how much money he makes. That’s pretty much it. And although feminists focus solely on CEOs and political leaders, the vast vast majority of men have menial, meaningless and powerless jobs. This fact is completely ignored by feminists. Men certainly feel they have less choice than women.

Rape allegations: you choose to see this as sexism/misogyny, but in reality it’s the nature of the crime. It’s difficult to prove and there is a massive spectrum of behavior, from both parties, that makes a judgment difficult. Add to this accusations that are made decades later. Add to this the huge number of examples of women lying about this, or threatening to. Women lie just like men do. Our system is innocent until proven guilty. But feminism has contributed to an erosion of men’s due process on college campuses, such that their lives can be ruined by a lie. It’s happened many times. Finally, are you aware that male victims of sexual assault, including underage victims, whose assault leads to pregnancy, can be forced to pay child support to their abusers?

Women not taken seriously in male-dominated fields: sure there are always assholes, but that’s in both genders. In medical school the two months I spent on the ob-gyn rotation were the most toxic experience of my life. Literally every women was openly hateful to male students for no other reason than their gender.

Doctor’s and pain. More than 50% of graduating doctors are women. This is another claim that has little basis is fact. There are different challenges in diagnosis that are too much to go in to, but the idea that male doctors don’t care about female pain is ridiculous.

Violence against women of color and trans people going unpunished. Huh? Where is the evidence of that?

As far as the history of feminism itself, the history is revisionist and dishonest. There never was a patriarchy as feminists claim. Life was just hard. Kids died and there was no effective birth control and religion was more pervasive, so families had lots of children. Women spent a lot of time being pregnant. Men worked. Again, the vast majority of men had horrible jobs and were powerless. Women died in childbirth all the time. It was common for men to have multiple wives. It made logical sense for the family property to be tied to the man. This is centuries of history. Men fought and died in war. Voting was tied to this responsibility. Someone willing to die for their country should have a say in its leadership. It wasn’t a simple patronization of women.

There is so so much wrong with feminism. It is filled with dishonesty, hypocrisy and hate. The only decent labels to have are humanist or egalitarian.

Finally, the first sentence of your post, whether intentional or not, is patronizing. It’s as if you think you’re going to school some ignorant children and you promise to be gentle about it. This suggests you may not be open to actually listening.

Finally finally, fantastic for you that antifeminist isn’t a cowardly echo chamber like so many feminist subs. You can actually post here!

sprayedwithraid · 2023-01-13T17:15:56+00:00

Feminism suffers from the same thing a lot of other movements suffer from. The moderate members refusing to call out/denounce the psychopathic fringe because “they are still technically on our side.” This leads to either radicalization of the moderates or moderates abandoning the movement all together. And you are left with places like 2XC representing feminism on the internet. Feminism need to do some serious reigning in. The main mod on askfeminists has a good grasp on what’s happening to the movement yet won’t do anything except damage control to the backlash these “former” fringe feminists perpetrate.

DannaBass · 2023-01-13T17:48:20+00:00

You reference first wave feminism, which fought to establish womens right and work for equality.

We are in Third or Fourth wave feminism now which spends its time denigrating and discriminating against men.

Modern Feminism is all about female world domination over men. Equality was achieved a long time ago.

Something of the woke psychosis infiltrated third wave feminism and it has been violently anti equality.

I would like to in turn ask you, how have you blinded yourself to the real nature and outcomes of modern feminism? (Its clear by your post that you don't understand the movement you claim to believe in)

Schadrach · 2023-01-13T18:05:13+00:00

incarceration rate. And I believe feminism should help them too.

Look into feminist critiques of the criminal justice system. They...don't tend to be about supporting equal treatment, but rather about doing whatever benefits women.

There's a reason there hasn't been a feminist uproar in the UK over the policy of not imprisoning women for crimes except in extreme cases because they are women.

For another example, I'm guessing as a modern, likely intersectional feminist that you are familiar with the gaps in how the criminal justice system treats people based on race? How black folks are more often arrested, more often convicted, more often shot, get longer sentences, etc?

Have you ever questioned why criminal justice is always talked about it terms of race but not sex? It's because virtually all of those stats where there's a race gap there is also a sex gap, that sex gap is either similar or larger than the race gap and it favors women. And they don't want people questioning silly things like why black being overrepresented among police shootings is clear evidence of racism, but 19/20 people shot by police being men isn't sexism.

women are supposed to stay at home with the kids and not work

I literally don't know any women living that lifestyle. Including my own mother, my parents worked different schedules so there was someone with the kids until we were old enough to be unlikely to accidentally kill ourselves. Every woman I know, including my wife, my friends and their wives (as applicable sex-wise), etc all work, kids or no.

I know it's a thing in some traditionalist circles, but it's a comparatively small subset of society - folks who are either deeply traditionalist or wealthy enough not to particularly need a second income. Or both.

people not believing women’s countless allegations to later find out a man was in fact guilty (examples include larry nassar, R kelly, ect.),

No one should believe criminal allegations without proof beyond a reasonable doubt. That's the whole point of the criminal justice system when behaving correctly - to gather proof and if sufficient proof exists to charge and try the accused to see if proof beyond a reasonable doubt exists. What I see a lot of from feminist circles is that we should treat an accusation by a woman as proof beyond a reasonable doubt in and of itself, or even occasionally that the burden of proof should be inverted for sexual assault allegations.

On a related topic, what's your opinion of the changes to Title IX sexual assault process that Betsy deVos put into effect during the Trump era?

proven rapists serving little to no time (bill cosby),

Cosby was a weird case of a technicality. Essentially the prosecutors convinced him to testify against himself in the civil case against him on condition that his testimony could not be used against him criminally. They did this because there wasn't enough evidence for criminal trial, but his testimony in the civil case might at least see him get some punishment. Then they used his testimony in the civil case against him criminally anyways, and violating that agreement was what got him out of prison after his conviction.

doctors not taking a womans pain seriously,

My wife keeps expecting this, and to be fair she gets it sometimes, but mostly from women doctors.

For example, she took me with her when she went to a new obgyn looking for a hysterectomy, and she was surprised at how receptive he was to how she described her pain, her issues, and what she wanted. The previous three gynecologists had all caused issues for her, not listened to her, etc and they were all women. She went in expecting a fight and the opposite happened and now she recommends him highly to anyone who might need a gynecologist.

kuruman67 · 2023-01-13T18:21:28+00:00

I know you’re swamped, but after reading through this whole thread, I hope you concede that people have, by-and-large, been respectful to you.

Here is a fun activity. Create a fake male account, go in XX chromosome or Witches vs Patriarchy or antimensrights or any number of other feminist subs and post a similar-length post titled “I think feminism is no longer needed” and borrow some points from the 100s of replies you’ve received in the body of your post.

See how it goes. I 100% guarantee you will either be banned or called a misogynist or rapist or some other vile name.

Skullcrusher971 · 2023-01-13T20:11:56+00:00

Have a son , id like for him to not grow up in a society where men are categorized as dumb, lazy , weird or creepy just because feelings.

Also 2 years of family court to be able to raise my own child. Hes with dad Now 😎👌

SpiritualBlob · 2023-01-13T22:47:40+00:00

I feel like feminism isn’t for me. It’s just stubbornness I suppose. If I don’t like a person or group, I am bound to find a way to challenge them. It may be by letting them look stupid or incredible.

For me, I have been rejected by a lot of women - not in a polite way but really in a way they wanted to break me down. For example: once I broke up with my ex-girlfriend, I was threatened to be shot (“You might see bullets flying around… no I don’t know it COULD happen to you”), my name was ruined by her and she even made a committee to ruin me. I found out years later, and was really shocked she would do all of that because I didn’t want sex at 16. On the other hand: I was not the only guy she did this to.

I saw my mother talk to my dad in a certain way. He could never do it right, even though he is a very sweet man. I saw girls talk to boys in certain ways. For example: in high school girls would try to make themselves look superior by kicking down men. They would start talking about how we are disposable or mentally challenged. One girl started to call me “gay”, as I had intervened her rape attempt on me. Later she would heavily support feminist thought. I didn’t think I could convincingly tell other people of what she did. One of my literature teachers supported this: “All men ever did was rape and kill - you would have done it too boys”. I was 15. I needed a lot of help in her course. The girls would get all the help they needed. I would get maybe a short explanation at the end of class - if I stuck around. I feel like in hindsight she must have had a big influence on this antifeminism. Or maybe the female coworkers in the office: once I was the only male person in that room, I couldn’t breathe the air. They would start discussing sexual details, despite me asking them not to. And this manager who just hated me because of a family feud, she was after my ass, I was 17.

Before all of that, I was very comfortable with the idea to have a feminine side. Later I just kicked that idea in the gutter.

It’s very simple for me: I can actually life with a woman. I would support all her ideas in practice: I’d love to cook, I’d love to do the household, I’d love to take care of the kids. My father always did these kinds of things, except for when he was gone on business trips. However, I just cannot identify the practice as feminist. I can also not directly support them. The concept has become too much a synonym to these experiences I had. I think while a lot of men seem to be anti-feminist, I think they might silently support you.

rvnclwass · 2023-01-13T23:42:41+00:00

Hey! I’m also a feminist with the same views as OP (from what I’ve seen) and could easily pick up some questions. As I don’t want to be swamped, you could DM me if interested with some questions. I like discussing things with people on the opposite side, my dad is right wing and we have interesting debates all the time. I won’t respond to people who aren’t civil, however.

It is pretty late where I am right now so if you don’t get a response, I’m probably asleep. :)

AndyBrown65 · 2023-01-14T03:17:48+00:00

https://youtu.be/cKWluJxW4Es

live_in_reality · 2023-01-14T05:46:27+00:00

No. Can't negotiate with terrorists.

W1ldfireYT · 2023-01-15T22:42:19+00:00

Fellow feminist. I think most of these guys are just anti-misandrists who accidentally or deliberately cover their eyes when they see non-misandrist feminism.

Frird2008 · 2023-01-13T02:25:19+00:00

Feminism by itself isn't toxic. Misandry is required in order for feminism to gain its toxic characteristics. There are two groups of feminists. The centric/rightist/conservative feminists who advocate for true equality for both men & women alike. Then we have leftist/liberal feminists who advocate for & promote misandry which gives modern day feminism the bad rap. As a centrist myself, I am well aware that all misandrists are feminists, but not all feminists are misandrists. Centric & right-wing true feminists are more of the solution while left-wing misandrists operating under the guise of "feminism" are more of the problem.

Edit: holy crap if I don't get banned I'm ganna be shocked.

Calpernia09 · 2023-01-13T02:59:04+00:00

I grew up being told that anything was possible, even tho we were so poor I had no toys.

As I got older I tried to he a feminist, but I found most women's definition doesn't match mine. I also found so many hypocrites.

I also volunteer with domestic violence victims, and there was such a need for men needing care. Help for false allegations was so common.

I switched and started helping men's issues.

Now I feel labels suck. I joined this sub based on certain ideas, but I'm seeing some things I won't agree with. So not sure if this is really the sub for me.

But I think it is so common for women to stick together REGARDLESS if they are right or not, and how toxic that is.

Equality is needed, not any other labels.

AndyBrown65 · 2023-01-13T03:56:03+00:00

Feminism is a hate movement as it is all about female supremacy. Everything male is bad, everything female is good.

Oppai_Dragon6996 · 2023-01-13T04:14:04+00:00

If a woman says 'she doesn't need a man in her life' she is celebrated as being strong and independent. But if a man says 'he doesn't need a woman in his life' he is shamed. He will be called an incel or misogynist. He gets asked the question 'who hurt you?'. It's the blatant double standards like these that makes me become anti-feminist

EvidencePlz · 2023-01-13T04:36:19+00:00

I think feminism was a movement started to achieve gender equality and end sexism. Originally created in favor to better help women achieve equality

It is my opinion that women are still not equal to men

That's exactly why I personally can't enter such a debate: le equality, because the whole premise is unscientific, unsocial, unhealthy, unfounded, irrational, absurd and downright hilarious. You and I aren't equal. Never was. Will never be. It is what it is. A woman trying to be like a man means she must let go of lots of her feminine attributes in the process, and that's when you disappear from my radar and lose my respect that you deserve as a human being. You simply turn into a commodity, something I can buy today only to use and throw it away tomorrow.

Heck...not all men are equal and treated equally even, and likewise Celine Dion or Kalpana Chawla and you are not equal. I am fine with that. But if a bunch of random men and women appear out of nowhere and angrily and forcefully demand to be treated like Leonardo Decaprio or Kalpana, and they got the government and law enforcement to enforce this pseudo-equality by force and not logic and science, that's when you have a riot in your hands, not peace and stability.

I am genuinely curious to understand how you all acquired your views

For me it started back in 2016 when an incident happened (won't bother to go into more details) and I realized how a heterosexual man is brutally, barbarically and unfairly treated by today's society, government and the law the moment he enters into a relationship with a heterosexual woman (whether non-marital, living together etc or marriage). Thankfully I had enough grey cells to realize I should back out and call it off as I realized it was way too dangerous, and so I did. If I didn't, I'd be an emasculated and indentured slave of a woman and the society today. Anyways, that incident led me to do some research on how society was like back in, let's say, 1600s, 1700s and 1800s (when it comes to the relationship between men and women) and how radically different it is today due to feminism and gynocentrism.

yournumberplease · 2023-01-13T05:06:45+00:00

https://docs.google.com/document/d/120Fz1POgQtW97kWFq75AFjbICT_heJ2P0wOIZaZpvig/edit

For anyone who wants the list of misandrist feminism.

2023-01-13T06:24:01+00:00

This is a very general debate. I have my reservations as to how far we can actually get given the context you've provided.

I'll do my best to try and give you some insight as to why I am currently anti-feminist.

Though I am sure that some people would disagree with me even asserting I was feminist, when I believed feminism was about giving women equality within society and also when I believed women were far more oppressed than I currently do I also considered myself a feminist. It seemed utterly logical. I have a mom I love, a sister I love, and I had a very positive view of women in general growing up.

Dad was a shit so I actually had a pretty shit view of men growing up.

Today I believe...

Women are far more privileged than men are, period.
Most of the spaces in society heavily favor women.
Feminists care only for women and prioritize issues that women care about and this is especially pertinent in how many prioritize what they fight for.
Feminism is far more about power for certain political groups and non-political groups. If it was ever about equality this is a time that is long gone.
There are horrendous policies and attitudes in law and society which do insane harm to men and no one cares.
Men are demonized using trumped up statistics and even if the stats are correct it's a wicked thing to use stats to justify treatment of individual people.

In many ways the same way I felt compassion, outrage, and support for women growing up because this is how I was raised is how I feel for men now.

At the end of your paragraph you took some time to list some problems you see that make you support feminism. I agree with you that those problems exist and that some of them are actual.problems that need solving.

I also believe they are small potatoes compared to the problems men face.

I judge movements that claim equality based on how they prioritize. It's my opinion that any level of reasonable, loving, and humane prioritization would see attention go to many men's issues before many current feminist issues.

In many ways I see the feminist mission as not only complete for women but in many significant ways overboard. The issues you mentioned are valid and yes in a more equitable world they should be prioritized but they aren't to me a cause for a large revolution.

I appreciate that you seem to recognize there are se bad faith actors in the feminist movement. I also recognize there are bad faith actors with whatever we may today call men's movement and well there will be bad faith actors everywhere which is why it's important to remain balanced in order to call.them.out.

As I look unto the world as it is I can say with confidence that if feminism as a movement were truly about equality they would have long made a genuine and meaningful push toward fixing some of the less equitable parts of society for men.

Instead I see nothing but power moves.

The last part of my reply here touches on a more personal side for me. I could write a book on it all but... Part of who I am. A deep part of my identity as a person is held within the struggle I had growing up.

My parents moved countries to raise me in America. They had a shit relationship and my father was not a good person. I decided to work my ass off for myself, my mom and my sister.

Throughout the years I noticed that society picked them up and out me down. Despite the fact that I was a child who became a man by way of struggle for his family I was never seen as a feminist ally. Feminists to me were always foaming at the mouth to badmouth me for being a man and when they couldn't they ignored me as much as possible.

It dawned on me long ago that admitting there were good men in the world broke their bubble in many ways. The reaction to the bubble breaking as not a positive one.

To me, most feminists are bad faith actors either consciously or by refusing to listen to reasoned arguments.

In the end I suppose I really am not an ally anymore. I cannot support a movement that seeks to destroy me based on my gender and I find it impossible to view the feminism movement today in a way that makes me feel they aren't out for anything but power and blood.

I hold out hope for anyone anywhere that is not a bad faith actor and that hasn't given up hope on people just being good to each other. This includes you right now.

I want you to know that some of the concerns you've brought up are valid and that we agree on some of the problems that should be solved. There are legitimate feminist issues. I just see them as human rights issues and I also see issues men face as human rights issues. I can say today with complete certainty that the human rights issues facing men far far far eclipse the issues facing women.

Thank you for coming to the sub and being inquisitive. I appreciate it.

JazzPhobic · 2023-01-13T06:58:50+00:00

For me personally it is all the documented facts that contradict what feminism says it wants vs what it actually went and did. Most noteably its many borderline mobbing attacks against any equality or equity based move that either elevates mens issues or incurrs responsibilities on women, such as gender neutral rape laws, domestic abuse shelters for men, human trafficking shelters for boys, devaluing fatherhood and creating a generational desensitization against sexism against male victims.

The facts are there, the studies were made, the injustly targeted victims spoke out. Feminism may have been good at the start, but like all movements across history, it didnt stop when it fulfilled its purpose and became a danger to society.

prn_melatonin · 2023-01-13T07:14:58+00:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHhrEErI3rk

I wrote a long reply but deleted it because this video is all i need to prove that men are trash and women are gods.

Context: Conscription to the army is only for males, never for females. Why? because fuck males, thats why.

Toran_dantai · 2023-01-13T07:32:11+00:00

For me it’s from experience Feminism is extremely hostile to men and men trying to talk about male issues

I meen look at the dating scene and talk shows such as just pearly things, they talk about male issues around dating

Feminists completely disagree on said topic and argue issues related to the exception and not the rule they will litersllt say not all women when the statistics show that 80% of the dating scene in online dating is doing litersllt that

I still hold out hope since I think it’s just the online dating scene that is a mess so I don’t use it

And that’s just dating Doesn’t account

Men in the work force Social issues Male expenditure Male worth Male subservience

Litersllt most men are completely ignored by women And on the first international mens day when male topics were being tasked about they kept having government officials in the U.K. being up womens issues and say women have these issues too 90% male issue 10% female l

Yea deffo a female issue

And then you see the stuff like too many female reporters are killed in war 11% or somthing like that

We must save the women

For some reason this is somthing thst happend

It makes men feel expendable

TheTomatoes2 · 2023-01-13T08:58:27+00:00

Why do neo-feminists blame all their failures on other people?

Certified_druggist · 2023-01-13T12:27:30+00:00

Something that no feminist has explained that makes sense is why they are so dead set on making abortion their “hill to die upon.” Abortion literally means you kill a human. What that says to me is that people who believe women NEED abortions are saying they are incapable of having a family and a career, it also assumes they WANT a career. (Anecdotally speaking) I know I’m my small sample size social circles every woman I know would tell me that if they had an option they would love to just be a stay at home mother and homeschool their own children. Another part of my confusion is if “The future is female” why are you killing babies, there’s a 50% chance the baby you just killed is a female. Seems counter productive to kill little baby girls if you want the future to have more females.

On a completely separate note why is intersectionality so important, life is suffering. That’s what it is for everyone. You can’t escape the pain of Being. It sucks but that reality. Why are you denying reality and saying we are the same. Men and Women aren’t the same. We are complementary. We are supposed to be the same under the law and under God. We don’t fix past discrimination with present discrimination. We fix it by acknowledging the past problems and give equality in the present.

grumpysafrican · 2023-01-13T13:02:47+00:00

I guess I got disheartened by feminism when I stated to realise how totalitarian it has become, to the point where feminists are even afraid of other feminists. The movement has become incredibly fractured, almost to the point of being broken. I would never dare to say I'm anti-feminist in direct conversation because I'm too afraid of the backlash I know I will get, and this is coming from someone who was quite the fervent supporter many years ago. But I guess after giving all that support and afterwards still getting kicked in the face and effectively silenced and backstabbed enough by virtually every feminist I know (male and female) over the years made me just walk away. I just don't support it at all anymore. I just smile and nod and then go somewhere else.

As the late great George Carlin said:

"I hate a group of people with a 'common purpose'. 'Cause pretty soon they have little hats. And armbands. And fight songs. And a list of people they're going to visit at 3am."

"The larger the group, the more toxic, the more of your beauty as an individual you have to surrender for the sake of group thought. And when you suspend your individual beauty you also give up a lot of your humanity. You will do things in the name of a group that you would never do on your own. Injuring, hurting, killing, drinking are all part of it, because you've lost your identity, because you now owe your allegiance to this thing that's bigger than you are and that controls you."

Iceman_Hottie · 2023-01-13T13:14:32+00:00

A friendly debate is always welcome.

There was a time when I thought the same way you do, so none of this will be intended to insult. My road to becoming an anti-feminist was two-fold:

1) the actions of feminists and the narrative of feminism simply promotes a different type of sexism, rather than helping to solve anything.

2) feminism is factually incorrect, to the point of inverting verifiable reality.

And the big issue is that the negatives of feminism are at the core, rather than fringe individuals. One of easiest to point out is de Beauvoir, who created the feminist notion of "patriarchy theory". The problem with it is that it is a thinly veiled excuse to normalize abusive relationships as she had with Sartre (another prominent feminist), and is categorised as neurologically abnormal. Another nail in the same coffin is the 1977 letter for the abolition of the age of consent in France signed by every noteworthy leftist in France at the time.

Most people never go this deep, however I would like to go over things in detail.

No-Needleworker-9307 · 2023-01-13T03:39:44+00:00

I spend a lot of time between askfeminist , menslib , mensrights and a few others . The biggest issue I see is most conversations stop at patriarchy . Even when you understand what it is and how it works , it still doesn’t explain things but more a catch all . I personally feel we are past the patriarchy and on to the wealthy ruling class , so money is now the key not what gender you are . The world is catered to the rich and the poor or middle class end up with the scraps .

Second major issue I see is the conversation around mens spaces to discuss things , if you ask this in alot of feminist spaces on reddit , they are highly critical of all of them , claiming them all to be misogynist and need to be removed . The ones they do support are very left leaning .

Last issue as a non American , most of the conversations I’ve observed are amerocentric in nature as is most of social media , the tag line I’ve seen is “until we have x and y and z sorted , we won’t discuss mens issues “ . So when you bring up those had been sorted in say my own country , they move the goal posts .

I admire your ambition and openness and hope that within this space you get a taste or an understand of why men have their issues and how they effect us . Continue your work and I tip my hat to you

Take this as reddit doesn’t do free gifts anymore

…………AWARD……….

banersCave · 2023-01-13T06:07:43+00:00

The biggest issue is feminists desperately trying to be equal to men. Men and women are similar, not equal.

Conrose_The_Mad · 2023-01-13T06:25:24+00:00

It began when I kept having traumatic experiences at the hands of women. I have cptsd and pted

Ok-Crab-4063 · 2023-01-13T13:21:22+00:00

Norah Vincent

IceCorrect · 2023-01-13T13:31:51+00:00

women being more prone to:

sexualization

And you do it on your own terms its just sexualization when its outcome are not good for you. I can say the same for men, but you would dissmis this fact. What about that women use their sexapeal to get something, we should condeme them?

gender roles and expectations

I can say the same about men, beacuse in the end men are still hold to traditional standards even when we have equality, I would say its bigger problem for men than women, but in today world all what men was doing previous is considered "bare minimum". You cant change biology and its women who must give birth to a child, but you can change social norms, but still there is very small part of women who would give "job" of raising a kid for a father.

women not taken as seriously in male dominated fields

You dont see avrg men thats why you belive that if men tell everyone listen to him. You only see leaders as men (or even human) thats why you have this bias. Also quotes doesnt help women to be taken seriously, how I can know that she is hired beacuse her knowlage or beacuse of her gender?

military harassment

There was some investigation that prove 40%+ of cases are 100% false and to prevent showing that women lie it was burried, then you are suprised that women are not belived. There was cases that women use laws just to get rid of competition, which you should have problem that people who have power abuse laws for their wants - like Cosby.

Drakethepirate · 2023-01-13T13:47:42+00:00

I am a former feminist who has realized how badly I have been used and manipulated by female feminists in reinforcing their propaganda and the idea that men prefer strong and Independent women as partners. I was in a relationship with my ex girlfriend back then and after breaking up some feminists exploited my vulnerable emotional state to fake a relationship with her and used me as a pawn for their political fights. I promised myself not to let any feminists use me for their wars and turned myself into their opposite embracing real equality in Egalitarianism.

RunikVarze · 2023-01-13T15:33:50+00:00

So, wgat you're saying is, men and women both have it bad. But while men's issues are largely systemic (you mentioned divorce court and family court yourself) all the problems women face are societal and won't be fixed by legislation. So, what exactly are you advocating for? What is your end goal? What do you want men to do? We already investigate and prosecute rape cases, and incarcerate those found guilty. The only reason so many rape accusations don't end in convictions and sentencing is because the only difference between a rape and consentual sex IS consent. And it is extremely hard to prove or disprove consent. But our legal system functions on the basic principal that it is an accuser's job to prove their claim. Otherwise the system would be entirely exploitable and worthless.

So yeah. We don't just jail people the second someone says "that person raped me". Just like we don't jail people the second someone says "that guy stole from me!" If we did, we would have a lot of innocent people behind bars.

As far as "violence against women of color and trans women" please, gather your evidence and put those ass holes behind bars. I whole heartedly encourage it. Otherwise, shut up about it. If it's not worth pursuing in the court room, then quit bringing it up like it matters anywhere else either. Options are available. If you choose not to take them, then we have to assume there is a reason. And the reason that seems the most sensible and easy to justify is that you're lying, there is no evidence, and you're just trying to ruin someone's life for social clout.

Otherwise we have to assume that an entire branch of our judicial system managed to be corrupted, and that is a MUCH larger task and far harder to establish. But if you can start materializing some documentation and proof, we can get right on that. But I reiterate, the burden of proof lies on YOU, the accuser.

Now the part I find interesting is just how disparate your comparisons are. Men are ending their lives in droves, but you're trying to justify overlooking it because women are being "harassed"? PEOPLE ARE FUCKING DYING!! That is a MUCH bigger issue! And much easier to solve if we could stop wasting resources on the fucking feminist agenda and start investing in solutions for it!

But here is a hot take I know you aren't ready for. Feminism is the cause of most problems men face in western society, and it is by design. Because while women are now equal in every way, in terms of the law, they don't want to leave. They have gained influence and wealth from the movement. So, no matter what we do, feminists will never be satisfied because they do not want to lose that backing.

Here's something that will blow your fucking mind. Feminism exists to combat misogyny, right? But what do you see when you go to these "misogynist" communities? Heaps of men complaining about how feminism has fucked them. Be it the attitudes they promote for women, loss of opportunities due to policies feminism has pushed for, or established issues that feminism has had YEARS to address but outright refused. Men getting fucked in divorce court by virtue of being men is not a new thing. That's been happening for decades. But feminism has yet to even approach the subject. Not even fucking once!

So, if feminism wants to end misogyny, why are they not attacking the root causes? Why is advocating for men's rights enough to get you shamed, and people to call for you to be deplatformed? And why the fuck are feminists so willfully ignorant of all these basic concepts??

Feminism hasn't been about equality in a very very long time. Feminism is about female supremacy. They only care when it benefits them.

RunikVarze · 2023-01-13T15:59:46+00:00

Also, sorry to split my post up. But I have a question fof you as a feminist. A big part of feminism is sexual liberation for women. So, on that topic, what is the end goal? Do we take it to an extreme and legalize prostitution? Is that better than beinf a housewife? And what about all the pedos that are trying to insert themselves into the LGBTQ movement? Are they going to be denounced, since feminism allies itself so closely with LGBTQ? Or does associating with feminism innately mean associating with kiddie diddlers?

GHOST_RIDER_6969 · 2023-01-13T03:40:05+00:00

I love people who take time and thought to genuinely listen to the other side

waterjug82 · 2023-01-13T14:10:38+00:00

OP ignoring the best points lol typical

OkeyyDokeyyYo · 2023-01-13T16:06:36+00:00

Should the LGBTQ+ Community be merged as/with feminism?

HappyHappyUnbirthday · 2023-01-13T10:34:15+00:00

Yikes. Just a bunch of incels in here. Jesus christ.

Dr-Death-Angel · 2023-01-13T01:47:51+00:00

Hi. I’m interested and understand the rules. You can DM me

amirs0li · 2023-01-13T10:42:28+00:00

I don't have time to read what you wrote, but i want to tell you , nowadays most of women are turning to bitches and most of men are turning to assholes. And among this people, there are other people who really need help , and we all know feminism doesn't help them , just brainwash them with bullshits like cheating and abortion and hating men or encourage them to do unhealthy things like being fat or don't shave their body and etc. This things doesn't help those people, just make them lose their way more .

CaptAhab666 · 2023-01-13T22:25:42+00:00

Because feminists had actually led to plenty of women sexualizing themselves and believing its empowerment. Never have I seen such degeneracy amongst women where sleeping around is encouraged, making sexual content is celebrated and being strippers and prostitutes is praised.

Somehow feminism has taught women that to combat the degeneracy shown by Western men, women should get involved with it as well. It promotes hedonism as a form of "empowerment".

Maybe its because I am not from the West. I am from the East where sexual promiscuity even amongst men is frowned upon. Sadly the problem with feminism, is that international media tries its best to promote it around the world. And therefore, plenty of Eastern women are falling into this trap, wanting to compete with men instead of working together. Sleeping through plenty of men, engaging in rampant pre marital sex, getting involved in porn (which have ruined plenty of young Eastern men as well) and not wanting to build a family because its "repressive".

And that to me is the problem of feminism. Just a whole twisted movement wanting to sink its claws around the world, destroy cultures and force degenerate Western values on everyone.

Langland88 · 2023-01-14T04:41:20+00:00

About 5 years ago, I deviated from Feminism as a movement when I was still a college student on a campus and not online. I was 29 and I was half a year away from turning 30. I consider myself left of center with my political views. I have chosen to adopt the title of Egalitarian because I feel the title is more appropriate and it has no gendered origins as far as I know in the name itself. Anyways I was still pretty Liberal and I was at a college in an area that very politically conservative with the campus being sort of liberal pocket but more of purple campus in that the faculty leaned left and so did a portion of the students while having an equal amount of conservatives as well.

Anyways I was all about the equal rights and equality for women. I truly believed in the cause because I thought it was the right things to do and I would see benefits for myself included if I supported the cause. Anyways I was discussion equal rights to women when surprisingly it a woman who refuted what I was saying which was the basic Feminist stuff like pink tax and pay gap stuff. She turned around and started telling me all these issues that men were dealing with that Feminists were largely ignoring. She started pointing out issues in my life that weren't my fault or pointed out how no one was talking about those problems. She made me think about it. Also at this time, I was still dumbfounded with Donald Trump being the President and still just getting pissed off with the stuff he was saying. After this woman talked to me, I started to realize I played a role in why Trump got elected as President and how I was looking down on people who voted for him. Many Feminists were doing this too. I also realized we have Domestic Violence shelters in this country and the overwhelming majority didn't consider male victims or take them in. I was just pissed off or I guess you can say at the time red-pilled.

Anyways I kept a lot of my new views to myself on social media except in places where I felt I could talk about them. Of course a year later, I leave the college campus and transfer to an online college because a slew of reasons including the campus itself being absorbed by another University(this was happening all over the State of Wisconsin where the 2 year colleges in the University of Wisconsin system, or simply the UW System, were being absorbed by closer 4 year colleges), my major was being phased out before I could graduate in time, and I was working full time and struggled with finding classes on campus to fit my work schedule due to it being mostly a daytime college and not so much a night school. Transferring online also allowed me to talk to more diversity of thought as well since I had classmates all over the country or even in other countries like Canada or Germany. However what really got me leaving the Feminist mindset at this point was when Gillette released their infamous advertisement that came off as chastising all men which really caused a ruckus online. I saw people defending the ad and calling everyone offended all the condescending names you could think of like incel, manbabies, snowflakes etc. It also didn't help that American Psychological Association released their first ever guide to helping men and it was pretty much saying that all forms of Masculinity was bad.

After that, I was done. I was tired of seeing men in commercials be in the line of fire. I was tired of seeing movies that came out in 2019 that pushed heavy Feminist agendas like that mediocre Captain Marvel movie, or box offices bombs in the Charlie's Angels or Terminator: Dark Fate movies. I was also finally tired of not being able to express my hatred for The Last Jedi or the All Women's Ghostbusters movie. I was just done with the media's negative portrayal of men and I still am today which thankfully I've seen some studios walk back on that stuff. Now I'm sure you're probably going to bring up at women weren't positively portrayed on TV or in movies in the 1950's-1980's and I will say that the solution is to not over-correct and make men look bad today especially when the majority of the young viewing audience had no control of what TV was like in the past.

The point is that I saw a lot of misandry and I still see it today. There is no beating around the bush. Social media, the general media, all the mainstream media, the news media, academia, and even intelligentsia itself have cultivated misandry in the ranks. The point is that men are not the enemy, masculinity is not toxic and I'm tired of hearing about all these toxic things about masculinity that somehow are empowering when women have those said traits. Somehow the things we deem toxic about masculinity have played a role in building the world around us and often in a positive manner. I want Feminists to actually start giving a shit about men like they claim to do. I want to see them actually start advocating for taking male victims of domestic violence seriously and I was them to acknowledge that the Duluth Model is very sexist against men. I want Feminists to start advocating immediately for lawmakers to create equal outcomes when married couples get divorced, like make it law that fathers get half custody of their children by default and that he doesn't lose all his assets in the settlements. I would like Feminists to start addressing male suicide rates without invalidating them first with pointing out that women make more attempts. That's pretty insensitive when they do that and it sounds like they don't really give shit that men commit suicide at higher rates and I would like them to address it without insisting that men need to act like women which is kind of how they are going about it now.

Sorry for my rant but that's been my feelings for quite a while and I have other thoughts but I don't want to make this post any more longer than it has to be. Pardon any grammatical or spelling errors as I often write these things and skip words I meant to say or don't exactly always type the right word or spell it correctly. I hope I have articulated my thoughts well enough. I honestly hope you're being genuine and not trying to have civil discussion out of bad faith which many Feminists do when they come here.

Darth_Jeebus · 2023-01-14T18:42:09+00:00

Maybe you are not a feminist if all you do is respond with "I'm so sorry that happens, but that's not me"...

Title	I am a feminist, I want to have a friendly debate
Author	Cornelious72
Upvotes	92
Comments	417
Date	January 12, 2023 11:11 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/AntiFeminists
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/antifeminists/comments/10adxyl/i_am_a_feminist_i_want_to_have_a_friendly_debate/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/AntiFeminists/i-am-a-feminist-i-want-to-have-a-friendly-debate.1148564 https://theredarchive.com/post/1148564

Comments

KillAllMen,

BelieveWomen (Due process, innocent untill proven guilty and fair trail are to be thrown out the window when it's a woman who makes an acusation against a man)