Is Enforced Monogamy SEXUALLY fair to both genders?

2021-02-05T14:07:20+00:00

They all want to rotate plates and have access to multiple women when is anybody who identifies as TRP pushing enforced monogamy?

throwaway629627953 · 2021-02-05T14:04:44+00:00

Enforced monogamy clearly favours men sexual access by limiting women hypergamy, this is not even a question. The sexual liberation has favoured women letting them avoid entering relationships with men they didn't like solely as a mean of survival. So it was definitely a positive change.

The problem is that nothing is 100% positive. With the women sexual liberation came the not so surprising fact that all women want the hottest, richest, most powerful guys they can get. This leaves a large majority of men without any option, not necessarily an issue giving how overpopulated the world is but it becomes an issue for socioeconomic factors. Not enough children, not enough young people working and paying taxes. The system will collapse but not for the reason incels claim.

The other issue that needs to be addressed is to stop glorifying women behaviour and trashing men. If men can't meet women's demands (not tall enough, not rich enough, not hot enough) or won't meet women's demands (e.g. rich men can choose not to provide if they feel they are just being used for it), this doesn't automatically make all those men worthless trash. But since nobody is going to go on public television and drop the truth of what are the consequences of women entering the workforce, then it's easier to just say men are not stepping up, where all the good men gone and such. Every time I have seen someone even remotely trying to approach the subject, then the immediate response is "so you are saying women shouldn't be allowed to work?". But that's not the point, everybody should have the means to work and provide for themselves. All I'm saying is that we should acknowledge what the consequences have been, not the change the status quo, but just to understand where the current struggling is coming from.

Anyway despite TRP and incels dreams there is and will never be a coming back to the old patriarchal system.

WilliamWyattD · 2021-02-05T14:11:23+00:00

"Enforced monogamy" is done for the good of the group, not the individuals, though it probably is more natural for, and caters to women rather than men. Again, it's not supposed to be "fair" to anyone. It served a purpose that benefited the group at the cost of individual freedom.

pnromney · 2021-02-05T14:43:15+00:00

I’m not convinced that all women, in evolutionary terms, are hypergamous. In Europe and most other cultures, there was generational enforcement of monogamy; being monogamous as a woman might have guaranteed financial resources in an evolutionary sense. Many woman may just want monogamy by nature because that was what was selected for.

Second point, the great compromise relates to other factors as well besides sexual. Violence in men seems to decrease when men are married. If that’s the case, women may benefit from a lower rate of violent men.

Urbantexasguy · 2021-02-05T14:43:22+00:00

From a practical standpoint, it's a completely irrelevant question. Without some form of monogamy, there will be NOTHING else, as society will not be stable.

In the primitive state, the 9 men without a wife, will kill the man with 10 of them. In the modern democratic state, the 9 men without a wife, will politically overwhelm the man with 10, and outlaw multiple wives.

YveisGrey · 2021-02-05T14:45:05+00:00

I think it's pretty fair because it came with the caveat of having men support women and their children which was a pretty good benefit to women. It also reduces the spread of disease so theres that. But I will say that if men are not in the provider role it's not very beneficial to women so....

WilliamWyattD · 2021-02-05T13:55:16+00:00

I am confused why would it be a problem for enforced monogamy to violate fairness and prioritize male sexuality over female? What is the discussion piont there? Why would TRP be concerned with anything that does not prioritize male sexual goals? They don't care about what women like/dislike.

Workaholiconew · 2021-02-05T13:48:20+00:00

I mean, it is a great compromise.... that is what "compromise" means. you may not get everything, but both are well off in the end, just not with everything. That, is defined as stealing other's property.

But to be fair, we men, have an easier time accepting something that is not the best, of the best. But we have to face that we will not be able to fuck anyone else. Which is a big problem to most of us. As polygyny is hard to keep in check. But we do our best. We may be less willing to fuck or deal with that one woman... but that is what "compromise" means.

You know what the red pill calls a person who follows uncompromisingly for the best of the best, regardless of the consequences? Hypergamous. That is why the impulse women have to such behavior is defined as "hypergamy". As some women put in here "men want enough, women want the best".

Women can control themselves, I, and most red pills, believe in that. After all, for most of time they did that, and some today still do it... today, they just don't want/bother to do that anymore. Leading to the consequences.

TheJim66 · 2021-02-05T14:04:57+00:00

With socially enforced monogamg women's standards wouldnt be as inflated and they would be more content, even sexually, with the men they are actually able to get. If you believe in virgin pair bonding, which I personally think is very likely to be true, then even more so.

does not TRP theory itself say that enforced monogamy prioritizes male sexuality over female?

No? The male sexual imperative is polygyny not monogamy. The female sexual imperative is SERIAL monogamy. Monogamy used to be a compromise between the two imperatives.

yeet20feet · 2021-02-05T13:55:23+00:00

you’re assuming that every guy and every girl put having as much hot sex as possible as their top priority in their 18-24 years. This is the case for a MINORITY of people. most people already operate on trying to please eachother to the max EQUALLY during sex, and get in a relationship as to only do it between eachother. this is very very very normal concept. it’s so funny you call it “enforced monogamy”

please ask yourself how far removed your view is from reality

Demasii · 2021-02-05T14:46:50+00:00

Typically societies which enforced sexually monogamy prioritized other qualities in a partner more than just SMV.

Claiming that the top man will get the hottest woman sounds pretty false.

2021-02-05T15:20:14+00:00

Social control efforts always end badly. People just need to adapt to the facts of the world. Female nature hasn't changed in eons. Guys need to work with women as they are -- not as we might want them to be.

ThrowawayCOVID999 · 2021-02-05T18:44:15+00:00

No because women would have a much easier time hooking up on the DL

Atlas__B__Shruggin · 2021-02-05T14:13:50+00:00

it was never arranged around sexual "fairness" in the first place

Frosty-Gate-8094 · 2021-02-05T14:35:10+00:00

As I have said in another comment on here, marriage (enforced monogamy) has nothing to do with sex. It has everything to do with money and resources.

Women are competent predators... But they cannot compete with men when it comes to defending properties and accumulating resources. Plus, they bear children. Who require both time, resources and protection.

A society with few males and many females can survive. But will have difficulty raising children. They will have to compete with neighbouring societies for resources. Any male dominated society in the neighbourhood will simply out-compete female dominated societies.

Marriage is a compromise in this direction.. It retains males. Facilitates transfer of resources from men to women. And obligated men to 'protect' his family...

Enforced monogamy is a compromise to assure the husband that the children he is providing for, are his biological children. DNA tests didn't exist in our society till last 50 years.

Rent_Is_Due_Renthog · 2021-02-05T13:52:37+00:00

is it a fair compromise?

Yes it is. Two people getting good is fair, just like winning 200k is fair despite others winning millions playing the lottery. You also obviously ignore the societal benefit that comes from it because otherwise it shows just how entitled and spoiled you come across as. You dont get to chase chad, but as weve seen you also dont have to work, machines did almost all chores for you, you had more free time than literal millionaires of today do and an income to indulge in most any desire. If you wanted to do more, you could get a part time or even full time job for extra cash flow (something you were only forced to do if you and the husband were poor). In every sense of the word, except for chad chasing, you were free to a degree almost everyone alive today would be jealous of.

People today dream of winning the lottery to live the life a woman in the 1950s did. If you call that tradeoff unfair because >tfw no chad to one night stand me, then i have no way to describe such a warped and delusional sense of value.

GridReXX · 2021-02-05T16:07:18+00:00

“Enforced monogamy” benefits the majority of men for the reasons you list.

I don’t think TRP cares about it being generally fair or sexually fair. They care about elevating the male imperative which is, often, naturally at odds with the female imperative.

I will say I’ve seen some men say that enforced monogamy benefits female need for security. Maybe? I’m sure kids would rather their father be around and support them than not. That said, those men also think women “enjoy” doing chores.

GridReXX · 2021-02-05T16:13:33+00:00

You really need to get over this idea of the Cock Carousel being a universal female experience. Most women are not promiscuous. And the notion that "arousing sex" is only had during this bacchanal, is odd. And forced to "go right to betas" also is not reality, most women marry the men they like.

superlurkage · 2021-02-05T15:38:36+00:00

Like most stuff from Peterson, the definition of enforced monogamy is intentionally unclear. Do you just mean slut shaming and discouragement of promiscuity? Would this be legally enforced or just socially? Are contraceptives available or not? Is child support/alimony/divorce allowed or not?

After all, a big part of 1950s society, which is what Peterson appears to be talking about, was the fact that women were supposed to get back in the kitchen after working in factories during the war. Female employment, or rather, lack thereof, was as significant a part of the traditional family as assumed fertility and fidelity

huhuhuhuh11 · 2021-02-05T18:13:17+00:00

This so obviously prioritizes male sexuality. This happened historically in the US btw. Women were striped of rights/opportunities/humanity and treated as property of men. Women HAD to marry to survive. This was very much the doing of men because it benefitted them.

Now this is no longer true and the rates of marriage are dropping. Women would rather die alone than be married to men they don't want.

Creation_Soul · 2021-02-05T15:33:23+00:00

You and I have had this conversion before, but how much of the sexual monogamy of the past was enforced by the risks of unplanned pregnancies?

People shamed women (dnd their families) who had children out of wedlock. Now, risk of unplanned pregnancies is much much lower than in the past due to various contraceptive methods. Sure, single mothers still happen today, but if people had sex 70 years ago as much as they had now without getting married, they would have had way more children.

The point is that it was not sex that was shamed, but the child that could result. Take away the risk, and the shame gradually goes away.

I was having a conversion with my wife (we have been together for 10 years, married for 3): if we were living 70 years ago and had had then as much sex as we had in our relationship, we would have probably had at least a couple of children by now.

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SeemedGood · 2021-02-05T15:23:32+00:00

Enforced monogamy came as a way of preventing woman from unnecessary child raising by rapists.

wtknight · 2021-02-05T17:44:01+00:00

It’s fair if you look at it from a perspective that women can compete with other women in order to find higher value men to pair up with monogamously and thus (supposedly) increase their pleasure.

If you look at it like women are still getting some pleasure by having monogamous sex with their attractiveness match, while the average man who can’t find a monogamous partner is getting no pleasure, then advocating for monogamy rather than hypergamous makeshift harems does seem to be the option that brings about the greatest amount of sexual contentedness. Although, if a woman chooses to go without men, I don’t think that this should be discouraged, which makes it imperative that a woman’s attractiveness match actually make an effort to be attractive to her.

flapperfemmefatale · 2021-02-05T19:03:37+00:00

That's a personal call. I don't think monogamy is inherently good or bad.

IcarusKiki · 2021-02-05T23:19:38+00:00

Enforced monogamy wasn’t decided because it placated men it was arranged as a business deal between two families in order to combine wealth and resources through shared blood. Men and women didn’t really get to choose their partner it was decided for them by elders depending on how much the other persons family could benefit their own. It wasn’t sexually desirable for either party and oftentimes both parties had lovers on the sides to satisfy them emotionally and sexually. Individual compatibility had nothing to do with it and a man could get married to a far uglier woman just because her family had a lot of dough and could pay the dowry. I imagine that man would be ecstatic to live in the 21st century.

LooseIndication · 2021-02-06T23:01:18+00:00

Monogamy needs to be enforced, because it is unnatural.

Nobody enforces eating food. That's unnecessary, because people doesn't need to be forced to eat food.

Laws exist to oblige people to act against their instincts.

Monogamy was created to distribute women "equally" between men. It gives beta males one wife, that they would not have if that woman were free to choose.

When women are free to choose, you get 80% of women, pursuing 20% of men, and the rest of males loose.

That's why governments and religion imposed monogamy. It is a bribe to the large majority of beta males. The deal is "you support the government and the church, and we give you a woman".

Monogamy is unfair to women, because it limits their choice.

Monogamy is unfair to alphas, because it takes away the women from them.

Monogamy is only beneficial to the majority of beta males, which would not be able to get a woman otherwise.

Female liberation, freed women from monogamy, but also deprives women from the pretension of having exclusive access to the man of their choice.

Without enforced monogamy, women can pursue the 20%, but have to share one man between many women.

Title	Is Enforced Monogamy SEXUALLY fair to both genders?
Author	WilliamWyattD
Upvotes	0
Comments	158
Date	February 5, 2021 1:30 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/ld757a/is_enforced_monogamy_sexually_fair_to_both_genders/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/is-enforced-monogamy-sexually-fair-to-both-genders.1193058 https://theredarchive.com/post/1193058

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