Why are traditional relationship dynamics viewed with such hate?

januaryphilosopher · 2023-06-25T21:46:13+00:00

Few people care if people come to that arrangement as a result of free and genuine choice. But some can be very critical of this dynamic being pushed on people or established as a default, and for good reason, as it tends not to make a whole lot of sense (it really doesn't make sense for men to carry all the shopping bags when women are perfectly capable and sharing the job between two is much more efficient) and certainly doesn't work for everyone. Often there is an element of being forced into it or forcing yourself into it as people's talents rarely fit exactly into these neat little boxes and it generally requires women especially to sacrifice their personal goals and desires. (And yes, that applies even if the couple loves each other. That's often why they do it.) It also isn't traditional - in the past men and women would both be expected to use their strength doing physical work, and beauty standards for women were very different and usually not as strict, for example. This view of tradition especially excludes people who fell into working class, the vast majority of people until recently.

Practicing_Raccoon · 2023-06-25T22:48:39+00:00

They aren't. What is viewed with hate is those dynamics being forced on people or expected of people....and massive amount of social pressure to meet traditional gender norms counts. I'm from Eastern Europe too. You say "no one is forced," but the pressure is massive. The traditional roles aren't bad...but pressuring people into them is.

Just because men are stronger doesn't mean it makes more sense of men to carry grocery bags. Lifting heavy things is good for women. Weight bearing exercise is good for women. Women aren't too weak to carry grocery bags. Idk why we treat women like they can't or shouldn't lift things. Whoever wants to carry the bags can carry the bags. Gender should have nothing to do with it.

Carrying bags takes 2 minutes. Cooking takes much longer and there's nothing about cooking that makes it a better fit for one gender over the other. It's a pretty male-dominated field at the higher levels. Whoever wants to cook should cook. Why are we making who should cook about gender? If you wanna cook....cook. But not because of your gender.

In the comments you mention "feminists" don't like traditional gender dynamics. If you go to feminist spaces online, even on reddit, you'll find women explaining that feminism is about choice, including a woman's right to choose what dynamics they want to have. No one cares if you're traditional as long as people have choice and aren't pressured into roles based on gender. It's convenient how this gets ignored in favor of a small minority of extremist feminists that are opposed by most feminists.

BusinessGarage2606 · 2023-06-25T21:42:19+00:00

I'm also from Eastern Europe and women in my country, including me, are running away from traditional gender roles and conservatism. Men cry that we are feminazis, vote for guys who say that our rights should be taken away and call us many disgusting names.

twistednormz · 2023-06-25T21:21:01+00:00

So, for example, in a relationship where they both work, if the woman enjoys cooking and cleaning etc and the man enjoys working extra hours to bring in more money for the family and carrying heavy bags and such, there's nothing wrong with them dividing their household responsibilities in this way. But what you say about a woman who loves her career and feels good bringing in money for the family and a man who enjoys cooking and cleaning, is it ok in your eyes for them to divide responsibilities in a way that suits their strengths and preferences? What about when both of them enjoy their career and neither enjoys cooking and cleaning? Is it fair that the household chores are equally split rather than automatically assigned to the woman because she's a woman? I guess what I'm trying to say is that the idea of a "traditional" relationship is that roles are assigned by gender, under the assumption that every member of that gender has the same strengths and preferences. Which really makes no sense when you're dealing with millions of people who are going to have different strengths and preferences.

BigVulvaEnergy · 2023-06-26T03:13:39+00:00

No hate here.

I just prefer different choices.

armpitpics · 2023-06-25T22:44:02+00:00

The problem with this dynamic is right there in your first paragraph. You expect these things in a relationship. People who don't like this dynamic don't like the fact that some people expect them to change their behavior to accommodate these expectations.

You also mention you're not talking about being a stay at home mom, but then talk about women tending the house and cooking, which basically means that the woman plays the worker and the homemaker at the same time. This is the worst of both worlds.

fakingandnotmakingit · 2023-06-26T00:47:13+00:00

Because historically we didn't have a choice.

I have zero issues with other people having trad dynamics. But when so much of it was shoved down our throats it becomes much less pleasing.

I also think that toxic online discourse affects it. If a man tells me "I personally would like to have a stay at home wife while I provide because I think our family unit benefits from it" then I shurg and move on. People are different.

When I see " western women are ruined because they chose independence!" "women should be women" "women are inferior because x, y, z" "women should be nurturers" "women should be grateful men gave them rights in the first place"

Which is very prevalent in online discourse it makes me associate "trad" with "wants a bangmaid".

Not to mention the whole "I'm captain and I make the final decisions!" and "women should just follow my lead" "submissive!!!!". It muddies the waters and gives me a knee jerk reaction of "run the fuck away"

I also think that it's always important to have a back up plan if/when things go wrong. We make mistakes. People change. People get sick. People die. Having the ability to provide for yourself should be encouraged in case something happens.

I don't care what other people choose to do in their life. But the moment I hear someone say that giving women an ability to choose which path they should take or hear a "women should..." well then, maybe the issue isn't feminism.

Tldr, if people weren't so obsessed with trad expectations of what women should be like, then people wouldn't react negatively to them in turn.

But we go around in circles with people who are probably caught in the middle getting radicalised by one side or another.

UneastAji · 2023-06-25T21:02:31+00:00

Reddit isn't representative of reality. Normal people still go with strong notions of femininity and masculinity, only most people have been influenced by feminism and have very low expectations of femininity while maintaining strong standards for masculinity.

El_Don_94 · 2023-06-25T21:22:21+00:00

What exactly do you think is viewed with hate?

Pale-Fish-8599 · 2023-06-25T21:51:17+00:00

There is a movement to normalize things that everyone used to find disgusting and to demonize things that were always normal. The people who are trying the hardest to do it think they are fighting their "oppressors" by doing this.

mxp68 · 2023-06-25T21:12:58+00:00

“Toxic Masculinity” is a common theme in America. Masculinity is no longer celebrated and has created a generation of men who are more feminine in nature.

But its not ALL of America. It’s just the loudest voices.

Some American women are now coming forward and complaining about the lack of “real men”.

Sad_Top1743 · 2023-06-26T00:54:41+00:00

Because the women on Reddit are predominantly from a niche/alt/progressive community.

If you go to mainstream subs there is a more normal take but in general Reddit women (and men tbh) screw weird

Workaholiconew · 2023-06-26T02:22:03+00:00

Social pressures.

Women have low defenses to social pressures, so they will follow whatever their culture states is right... and in the west, the "right" definition of their culture is for you to be a hateful person against traditionalism.

SierraMistSoda · 2023-06-25T21:48:33+00:00

Feminine/Masculine does not always mean traditional. Many girl/guy relationships in the city are very 50/50 on rent, cooking, cleaning but the girl does girly things like going to get her nails done and the guy does guy things like golf. That's still a feminine/masculine style relationship but it's not traditional. Also this is normally a girlfriend/boyfriend thing that goes on for years.

Traditional is a marriage where the husband goes to work to bring in an income for the family and the wife tends to the home and children for the family. It's a family unit where both people don't complain about who has it harder or whatever. Each person has their roles for the family unit and that's traditional.

The traditional relationship is absolutely the best route when it come to raising children but the reason it does not happen as much is because you have to put the highest level of trust in your partner to keep to their role and not either grow bored, cheat, change personalities ect. and most people don't have that level of trust in another person. I actually don't know if people have that level of trust in themselves anymore either.

LiftSushiDallas · 2023-06-25T21:14:35+00:00

What is an example of the "hate" you are seeing?

NumerousTheory5735 · 2023-06-25T21:16:49+00:00

Western women see traditional relationships as dehumanizing. If you listen to western women long enough, the term "equal partner" is heard more than husband. That alone speaks volumes.

I don't blame the women though for thinking like this. It's just the product of the times.

Far_Significance2023 · 2023-06-25T23:02:00+00:00

Two things: envy and prejudice.

They assume non-traditional relationships can exist as well as the traditional, but heterosexual relationships are traditional to the core because of the implications they have. Observe that people with non-traditional heterosexual monogamous relationships are just changing names for traditional things and replacing rituals to equivalents. They forget that the very thing of a romantic relationship is by itself traditional because you don't need it anymore to have children or be part of society. Relationships themselves are kind of obsolete in the context they were needed for traditionally, so relationships themselves are traditional anyway.

I expect all relationships to become traditional, even friendship, as AI and other tech replaces the need for them or at lest keep people distracted from the sadness of not having them.

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RocinanteCoffee · 2023-06-26T09:23:44+00:00

Most people don't view traditional relationships with hate unless someone is being exploited in the relationship.

It's usually if someone tries to argue traditional should be something everyone participates in (even against their will) or is somehow superior to more modern dynamics which understandably gets criticism.

Honestly, when you grow up in this kind of environment and witness this traditional dynamic maintained in a healthy, loving way (no one is forced to do it), you kind of get used it and have a hard time seeing it as bad.

Just because you see someone having a happy relationship in a traditional dynamic doesn't mean it's right for you.

My parents were traditional in a lot of ways. Doesn't mean I have any interest in it or that it would be healthy for me.

I'm VERY happy attending my friends' weddings and celebrating them even if their dynamics are or might be a lot more traditional than mine. You can be happy for someone where the couple is happy, nobody is exploited or considered inferior, and they are just living their own lifestyle without that lifestyle being appropriate for you.

Someone being forced or pressured into a traditional relationship is just as bad as someone being forced or pressured into a more modern relationship if they don't want to be in those.

AgeOfReasonEnds31120 · 2023-06-26T15:23:01+00:00

Because not all men and women are the same?

Title	Why are traditional relationship dynamics viewed with such hate?
Author	intothemayland
Upvotes	6
Comments	61
Date	June 25, 2023 8:49 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/14iwwe7/why_are_traditional_relationship_dynamics_viewed/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-are-traditional-relationship-dynamics-viewed.1223512 https://theredarchive.com/post/1223512

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