How do you deal with feminist who justify sexism against men because of supposed patriarchy or male privilege

Aluto7 · 2023-09-21T10:30:19+00:00

In what society is the privileged class:

more likely to be homeless, but have less homeless shelters
more likely to be unemployed, but discriminated in hiring
do worse in school, but have less scholarships
have a higher pension age despite dying younger
die younger, but have less health research and funding to low income healthcare
are punished more severely for the same crime

Patriarchy/male privilege is a myth, it doesn't exist and it doesn't align with reality. No these thing are not "because" of the patriarchy, that makes no sense. 'Feminist theory' is pseudoscience, people like Bell Hooks deserve the same level of academic respect as psychic mediums and astrologists.

dependency_injector · 2023-09-21T10:34:01+00:00

Their thought process (I won't call it logic) works like that:

The patriarchy is known for being unjust to women.
Women sometimes face injustices.
Therefore, the patriarchy exists.

It is the same existential fallacy as this:

Zeus is known for making lightnings.
Lightnings sometimes hit Earth.
Therefore, Zeus exists.

Current_Finding_4066 · 2023-09-21T10:31:58+00:00

All bigots convince themselves that their appalling views are justified.

Punder_man · 2023-09-21T11:01:48+00:00

The short answer is, you don't / can't..
This is because they are so deeply entrenched within the dogma of feminism that to admit the double standard would be too much cognitive dissonance for them to handle..

If you want to try then press them on the fact that as a feminist they "Believe in equality" and if so there should be no issue with what you have said because you are pointing out how things would be fair / equal"

I'm sure they will ignore you and launch into a tirade about how things are still inequal for woman and thus your arguments are invalid..

Hot take but I don't actually care / focus on which gender is the "Majority" casting in movies / TV shows..
I consume media like that to escape reality.. however feminists seem hell bent on twisting all forms of media into being pusdo Gender Studies lectures.. Forcing feminist dogma / narratives down the general public's throat..

But yeah OP, I wouldn't bother trying to argue the point.. at best they will go silent and ignore you..
At worst they will label you a "Misogynist" or "Insecure" or "Incel" etc..

So I wouldn't even bother..

KrazyJazz · 2023-09-21T12:16:32+00:00

How do you deal with a feminist...

You don't. You tell her/him to fuck off, leave and never talk to her/him again. Time is a finite ressource and you don't want to waste it on fruitless debates.

WeEatBabies · 2023-09-21T10:22:37+00:00

Feminists / misandry apologist justifying their hatred, news at 11.

JACSliver · 2023-09-21T12:02:24+00:00

Two types of responses come to mind. Normal example: "So you believe only your social group has the right to be entitled narcissists?". Extreme example: "Who is to say the Jewish people were not considered "Privileged rulers of the world" by the Nazis so the latter could justify any atrocities towards the former?".

Rutibex · 2023-09-21T13:04:19+00:00

You can't reason someone out of an opinion they didn't reason themselves into

freeball_1 · 2023-09-21T12:40:14+00:00

Openly call them a sexist! Point out that the patriarchy is nothing more than a conspiracy theory that only exists in their heads to self justify their sexism.

They might as well be claiming they get to be sexist because the Illuminati is mean to them. The patriarchy just like the Illuminati is a conspiracy theory! A fantasy! A bullshit story! We need to start calling them out on it.

Black-Patrick · 2023-09-21T12:15:57+00:00

Dismissively

Mode1961 · 2023-09-21T11:46:02+00:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA8djGrsttA

This is a good video that I believe explains it.

kaijyuu2016 · 2023-09-21T11:55:07+00:00

I don't, cut ties with all of them. They're too dumb for me to waste my time with.

WinterDotNet · 2023-09-21T12:40:57+00:00

Ask for real proof. Peer-reviewed studies or data not being intentionally misrepresented.

pm_me_your_buttbulge · 2023-09-21T12:42:55+00:00

I was arguing with a feminist/social justice warrior.

The problem with SJW's is they think they can solve social injustice by using social injustice.

You can't win with them. Reason, logic, and empathy are not parts of their argument.

Your time is better spent elsewhere and not with those folks who lack the emotional and mental maturity to handle these conversations.

neveragoodtime · 2023-09-21T13:49:17+00:00

I would say American slavery was justified by claiming Africans were bigger and stronger, more immune to the heat of the Caribbean and therefore better suited to working the fields because of their black privilege. It sounds just as dumb. “We need to discriminate against men because men are in power, but only in enough power to be discriminated against by us, not enough to discriminate against us.”

LateralThinker13 · 2023-09-21T15:59:02+00:00

How can I even argue with this.

"You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into."

Most feminists aren't that way because it's reasonable. They're there because it appeals emotionally. Modern feminism is a cult/religion to them, not a reasoned position. If you reply with reason like:

"The answer to sexism is not reverse sexism, it's just stopping being sexist."

They ignore it. Because again, they aren't reasonable or rational. They see power, and thus they want power.

And just say that it is not hypocritical because we live in patriarchy.

Welcome to a sacrament of their religion. It is sacred and not to be questioned, no matter how unsubstantiated it is by reality.

You can't reason somebody out of their religion. All you can do is to make sure they don't harm you if they decide to Jihad.

heeroena · 2023-09-21T11:26:09+00:00

what male privilege?

mr_ogyny · 2023-09-21T11:49:29+00:00

They will justify misandry one way or another so I find it's best to ignore them

B1uefalc0n · 2023-09-21T12:31:56+00:00

Here's the lesson you dont argue with crazy.

There exists no argument where we can have a positive debate with someone who is unwilling to adhere to logic.

Simply nod and walk away.

Remember her face if she ever runs for office, though...

anakin_zee · 2023-09-21T13:45:40+00:00

Yeah I just ignore these type of arguments these days. If you do , it’s like talking to a wall, and they don’t talk to understand and engage, they just talk to shut you down.

NullableThought · 2023-09-21T13:52:46+00:00

I normally walk away from these types of people but occasionally I actually feel like discussing this type of stuff with a feminists. I usually just ask a lot of questions and point out any contradictions or falsehoods within their argument. I also use analogies to other immutable traits (usually race). So for example when a feminist claims that men are more dangerous than women because of crime statistics, I ask if that also means black Americans are more dangerous than white Americans because of crime stats? Should we encourage white people to cross the street when they see a black person? Is it okay to avoid all black people "just in case"? If I once was attacked by a black person, does that mean it's reasonable for me to fear all black people? Etc, etc, etc....

Also remember that when you are publicly debating online, the person you are trying to win over isn't the person you're arguing with. It's the person on the fence who is silently reading your comment exchange.

JSNTFS · 2023-09-21T13:57:21+00:00

I "deal with" people like that by ignoring them.

I was arguing with a feminist/social justice warrior.

Why were you doing that? The best response to such a person is to cut them out of your life and not interact with them.

aigars2 · 2023-09-21T13:57:26+00:00

Point to women privilege.

RandomYT05 · 2023-09-21T13:59:03+00:00

I'd simply point out how justification of hatred because of perceived privilege is exactly what the nazis did to the Jews, and you know what happened to them.

Tbh, radical feminists like that need to be likened to nazis, because more likely than not, if they keep going uncontested, we're going to face the mass culling of men as feminism tries to enact "revenge", for our perceived wrongdoings, even though us men now did literally nothing to them.

WolfShaman · 2023-09-21T14:55:35+00:00

Personally, I don't. As soon as that level of hypocrisy comes out, I walk away.

You can't beat someone who doesn't believe they can be wrong.

Huffers1010 · 2023-09-21T15:55:33+00:00

People for all of history have been giving themselves excuses for exactly this kind of prejudice, on the basis they felt they'd finally figured out who the undeserving people really were.

For Hutus, it was Tutsis. For Bosnian Serbs, it was Bosnian Muslims. For the Ottomans, it was Armenians. For Pol Pot, it was pretty much anyone who wasn't an ethnic Khmer. That's four, and I haven't even invoked Godwin's Law yet. None of these people felt they were the bad guys. All of them felt they had a justification for what they were doing. I suspect we agree they were wrong.

But I'm sure your acquaintance has finally figured it out. Out of everyone in history, she's finally worked out who it's OK to be prejudiced against. She's finally got it right. She's the good bigot.

That's what you say to her.

The problem you have is that she's making a moral judgment, which is based on nothing more than what she thinks is morally OK. Those are not things that you can argue as a matter of deductive logic because morality has few or no absolute characteristics, other than principles of behaving toward others as you would want them to behave toward you. In the past, lots of people thought outrageous racism and sexism was fine (in many parts of the world, they still do).

That's why I approach this sort of thing by example.

spearman3243 · 2023-09-21T19:34:47+00:00

Stop wasting your time arguing with such a creature. Ignore them.

Extraterrestrial1312 · 2023-09-21T20:51:45+00:00

Why do you even talk with them?

AaViOnBando · 2023-09-21T21:16:47+00:00

With disgust, ironic comments and a lot of disrespect

Tiny_Professional358 · 2023-09-22T00:20:37+00:00

You can’t these are the same group of people who believe men are born bad and that the guy who picks up their trash every Wednesday is somehow “oppressing” them.

OriginalPostrSociety · 2023-09-22T03:10:02+00:00

Yo don't deal with these people just ignore the crazies

FartOnACat · 2023-09-21T13:40:14+00:00

Alright, here's the thing:

All effort spent debating anything with feminists is completely wasted. They will lie to your face about things that you said minutes earlier. They will attack you relentlessly and at the first sign of disagreement resort to calling you an incel. They will alternate between being a perpetrator of verbal abuse and claiming that they are victims. They will cite studies that say the opposite of what they claim they say. Any correct point you make will either be (a) disputed on no grounds or (b) deflected away from.

Example:

Feminist: Violence against women is a huge problem. Being a woman is scary and we never feel safe.

MRA: Men are the overwhelming majority of violent crime victims.

Feminist: And who's committing those crimes, hmmm?

I've seen this exact conversation multiple times. How is it even supposed to continue? How do you discuss something with someone who cannot even stay on topic for two consecutive sentences? The answer is you can't. They'll just make shit up to throw in your face, blame men, call you an incel, and get thunderous applause from other women like them for it.

There's no point. You can be calm and reasonable, they'll still insist you're on the same level of an ISIS terrorist. You can bring up statistics, they'll just deflect. You can say nothing bad about women, they'll make shit up about you believing that women should be strapped to tables to be freely used by incels.

It's just pointless.

ReasonVision · 2023-09-21T15:52:20+00:00

Here's the thing: you can't. Not like that.

It's based on a distrustful, hostile and resentful attitude towards men. You are never going to policy issue away the disagreements, you need to change her attitude. First get her to like men and believe that there is no sex class war, and then you'll be able to challenge her Feminism. It's an emotional battle first.

DolbecEntertainment · 2023-09-21T16:45:17+00:00

show them the soccer game where feminist try to be equal to men and loose 0-12

Sea2Chi · 2023-09-21T14:49:49+00:00

Some people simply have a very myopic view of their own cause. It becomes difficult for them to acknowledge any other issues because everything comes back to the thing that is by far most important to them.

Usually when someone singularly focused to that degree it's very difficult to have a meaningful conversation that isn't them going down their talking point and getting angry if you don't agree. To them, they're saying hard indisputable facts, it's not opinion or a simplification of a complicated issue, what they're saying is fact and if you disagree with them you are wrong. Because they they also tie morality to those fact, by disagreeing with them you're basically saying you are a bad person and therefore they don't have to listen to you, because why would they care what a bad person says?

So conversations with people like that usually don't go too far.

The best you can usually do is getting them to acknowledge that that issues exist for all genders, and no one has a monopoly on suffering. Even then, that can be hard for some people because saying other people have it rough too feels like it's taking something away from their cause.

griii2 · 2023-09-21T14:02:35+00:00

You document them on r/ToxicFeminismIsToxic, that's how you deal with them.

Mobile_Lumpy · 2023-09-21T14:39:58+00:00

I just don't talk to them.

63daddy · 2023-09-21T14:54:22+00:00

If I’m going to argue with them I’ll keep pointing out we don’t live in a patriarchy and it’s women? Not men who are privileged. I won’t get into an argument based on a false premise. If they keep those points as a premise, then we will never move beyond those points.

I find it more productive to argue feminist talking points with reasonable people who listen to facts and reason. Feminists are mostly a list cause, but we can minimize the number of people who buy into their B.S.

lemons7472 · 2023-09-21T15:35:51+00:00

It feels like you can’t deal with the issue directly of calling out a feminist double standards. Feminist have their own sexist beliefs that they’ve had for a long time, therefore will justify or deny sexism against men even if that sexism is literally just the reverse of what feminist deem as sexist, so they break or twist their own rules of being against sexism.

Feminist just also generally hate media male fantasy and male sexuality while being ok with their own sexualizing fantasies that would be seen as objectifying.

Even_Engine_187 · 2023-09-21T15:47:32+00:00

Be the bigger 'man' and let it go. You can't argue with these people, and doing so shaves years off your life.

psymin · 2023-09-21T16:29:07+00:00

I'd argue that discrimination isn't the solution to discrimination.

Antarkian · 2023-09-21T16:34:32+00:00

Simple put. You don't.

Theu love to exile people...so give them just that. Bye-bye, take your woman power elsewhere.

Amazing how we all agree that "white power" is racist as fuck and evil. But girl power...gets a magical exemption.

tezzawils · 2023-09-21T17:11:40+00:00

As many others have said - just don't, your time is too valuable to waste on that person

Applejaxc · 2023-09-21T17:13:37+00:00

I just don't. I thank them in my head for announcing that they are crazy people I don't need to waste my time on, and am thankful (so far) I've never had to work for a shrew

imbetterthanyou30 · 2023-09-21T17:17:05+00:00

If you don't have to deal with it, then don't. If you try to correct everyone who has an incorrect opinion, you'll be spending a lot of your time trying to convince people who don't want to be convinced. It's very rare to change someone's mind- especially if they use emotions to guide themselves to the conclusions that they want. This isn't just true of feminism, but topics in general.

For example, with law, a lot of people are against letting people accused of awful crimes go on "technicalities." As a lawyer, I know that these "technicalities" exist for a very good reason and protect everyone. If these technicalities didn't exist, then people would not have the protection of due process. But I only correct people if: (1) there is solicitation of my opinion; (2) I feel the person will value that opinion and my expertise; and (3) if I gauge that they can interpret the information without a cloud of emotion. My time and education are only imparted where it can make a difference, as required, and if I think it will be valued.

hottake_toothache · 2023-09-21T17:40:15+00:00

How can I even argue with this.

Use this as a learning experience, and be prepared to update your understand of how women think. Try to understand her thought process, as much as you try to convince her, and remember that her thought process is not something you can control.

MotherAce · 2023-09-21T18:26:04+00:00

Always remember that you won't win this argument in real time using any of the knowledge gained here.(or at least thats super-rare)

As with any flawed ideology, convincing people might take years, and it's a process they usually wind up doing on their own. Doubt slowly perculating and surfacing in their mind. Just dump the counter-arguments, point out the hypocrisy, and walk away. You cannot do more.

It's the same process used on religious people. When you've been thought one thing in your upbringing for more than 20 years, it's gonna take a little time to realize that its all B*S.

OldTrapper87 · 2023-09-21T18:31:02+00:00

Discrimination is described as

the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of ethnicity, age, sex, or disability.

Ask them if they think all men should be treated a certain way due to the actions of a few men.

Kryllist · 2023-09-21T22:20:20+00:00

I tell them there is no such thing as a patriarchy, just a meritocracy. Men lead because they've earned it and put themselves in those situations to lead. If patriarchy existed, then there would be Harvard graduates living on the streets, and homeless men leading fortune 500 companies.

BackTableKid · 2023-09-22T00:10:39+00:00

Two wrongs don’t make a right. If they aren’t making an effort to compromise and unify, you shouldn’t be debating them.

YucatronVen · 2023-09-22T06:50:18+00:00

I mute then

thomas_gabriel88 · 2023-09-22T09:03:09+00:00

that feminist is actually okay with all female cast but have problem with predominantly male cast. and is okay with sexualizing men but have problem with sexualizing women. and don't see hypocrisy In it. And just say that it is not hypocritical because we live in patriarchy. I just don't know. How can I even argue with this.

So long story short she's an idiot for the sake of your own mental wellbeing just avoid her

SnooPets2522 · 2023-09-22T10:25:06+00:00

If you'll try to argue with them you'll just waste your time. If they don't wanna get out of that bubble they built for themselves than let them stay in it. I remember seeing the argument saying that "feminism can fix mens issues too" multiple time. How's that supposed to fix my issues as a man? Last time I checked feminism was for women, not for men

CawlinAlcarz · 2023-09-22T14:05:44+00:00

Treat them like the terrorists they are, and simply don't deal with them. That's what I do.

MeisterMGTOW · 2023-09-23T14:50:16+00:00

I don't ...

11Alive11 · 2023-09-23T16:05:29+00:00

Best thing to do is ignore and avoid them

Rasd2020 · 2023-09-23T18:33:18+00:00

Many women in the feminism movement are ignoring the facts like women paying for sex, female domestic violence perpetrators, and more. They are promoting hate towards men, and its dangerous. The end goal seems to be to make society wholy matriarchal where they can make men their lesser and rewrite the roles men snd women hsve in the family unit. I am all for equality and will stand against the hate speech no matter who is saying. There needs to be harsh penalties and tough prison sentences for anyone who promoted hate. What are your thoughts?

HistorianEcstatic555 · 2023-09-24T01:47:11+00:00

In remote gigs, I don't hire f gig workers anymore. I encourage all justice seekers to correct the scales and do the same.

Title	How do you deal with feminist who justify sexism against men because of supposed patriarchy or male privilege
Author	over0053
Upvotes	227
Comments	102
Date	September 21, 2023 10:07 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/16obyt6/how_do_you_deal_with_feminist_who_justify_sexism/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/how-do-you-deal-with-feminist-who-justify-sexism.1232526 https://theredarchive.com/post/1232526

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