Why is being overconfident seen as so much better than having low confidence?

indigo_pirate · 2024-03-15T13:50:24+00:00

A lot of people live in a grey state of semi boredom.

Over-confident , expressive people and even assholes offer some variety to life. Which is why they attract people.

It’s a reason why there is a lot of contempt (sometimes subtle sometimes not) for quiet or plain people. Because they don’t participate in that social contract of alleviating the communal boredom.

FellasImSorry · 2024-03-15T14:11:35+00:00

It’s often difficult and annoying to hang out with people who lack confidence.

It’s usually awkward. If they’re shy, you’re prying conversations from them. If they’re self-deprecating, you’re constantly thinking “how should I respond to this? Agree? Compliment them?” If they’re depressed about it, it’s just no fun.

But people who are overly confident require little to nothing from you. Even if they’re kind of jerky, they can still be fun to have some drinks with. Maybe you wouldn’t take it further, but for a few laughs? Can’t beat confident people.

Wouldn’t you rather hang out with someone who is confident?

ooa3603 · 2024-03-15T14:45:20+00:00

Humanity is not rational and never was.

Its why certain fields that try to meld quantifiable metrics to human behavior (like economics) struggle when applied to the real world instead of theory.

In this case, this pattern you've noticed comes from extraversion bias. That is modern western society is culturally biased toward extroverts and extraverted traits

This is especially prevalent in sexual dynamics.

The good news is that:

There are women who like introverts, the problem is they're difficult to find ad connect with.
You can form your own brand of confidence that suits your personality

BuddaJim2023 · 2024-03-15T14:55:54+00:00

All this nonsense day in and day out on here.

I know you're not posting to get any actual useful advice to change anything, but if you ever do want to be better: get off the internet, find out who you really are and be that person. The rest will work itself out. And it takes time and effort.

It really is that simple.

thrownawaytodaysr · 2024-03-15T15:19:24+00:00

Just to start this out, I wouldn’t really call myself “red-pilled”, more incel/Foreveralone adjacent. As I’ve tried to improve my outlook on dating, I’ve ofc ran into the suggestion of being more “confident”, and I think I understand why.

The thing that still bugs me, even if it makes me a “nice guy”, is the idea that despite all the positive traits I feel I have to offer in terms of dating, it will always be overlooked due to my low confidence.

Out of curiosity, what traits do you believe you have to offer that are otherwise uncommon or in higher demand?

I was roommate with someone who was narcissistic, looks down on people, just lacks empathy in general, and he does well with women, despite these negative traits.

Mind sharing the age bracket here? My guess is late teens, early 20s. I would also guess that he did well with people who were likely insecure themselves and seeking some kind of external validation from a source that made them feel was a bit more withholding or harder to please. I speculate this based on my experience as a man and my gravitation toward women who came across as cold and withdrawn. For whatever reason, I've always been the most interested in women who seemed harder to engage or attain/a challenge. If ever a woman were to express eager interest in me, I would find it suspicious because due to my own insecurities, I couldn't for the life of me picture anyone being that interested in me on its face. There had to be something wrong.

Why does his “confidence” excuse those traits, whereas my positive traits do not make up for a lack of confidence? Shouldn’t both of us struggle ? I feel like that’s where a lot of frustration comes from.

I don't think it excuses them, for the most part. If anything, it likely masks them, at least for a time. If you seem like you have your shit together, if you're indifferent to what others think of you, that makes insecure people seek your approval. For whatever reason. A confident person would generally not fall into that trap.

It's also a problem that it takes so much longer to get used to and know the "real" person that the surface level first impression of confidence can be compelling. I would be curious if your ex-roommate has had luck with longterm commitments.

agreable_actuator · 2024-03-15T14:59:14+00:00

What exactly do you mean by confidence? What is your working d function?

Do you mean that you want to be able to expect that women you try to speak to will be receptive to your advances? That isn’t guaranteed to anyone. Do you mean that having confidence is feeling awesome every second of the day when you try out new things? Not sure that is helpful.

Could you instead try and develop outcome independence to your daring success? Maybe it would be helpful to develop a Practice of self compassion and unconditional self acceptance. Maybe it would be helpful to have goals and strive towards reaching them in multiple domains like education, career, fitness, hobbies, and so forth. Maybe it would be helpful to develop inner resources to where you don’t need the approval of women for your happiness. Then, people won’t be put off by your neediness.

So maybe a better definition of confidence is just not being desperate and needy for external validation from potential dating partners. Would it be helpful for you to strive for that instead?

spiraldinosaur · 2024-03-15T15:23:26+00:00

In my experience, when someone is overconfident or even narcissistic, it's often hard to tell until it's too late. I've met plenty of people who just seemed interesting, fun, exciting, like they had things going on, and that made them seem appealing to be around. Then they start having their demands and requests from you and you think sure, I'll get involved in your life, I'll be part of that, it sounds exciting. By the time you notice that you're doing a lot for them and getting nothing in return, or by the time you realise they're actually full of shit, it's often too late and you've already invested a lot of energy into them.

The same happens in dating. When a guy acts confidence, it's not immediately obvious how much he's faking it, or how much of a narcissist he is, but that confidence can seem appealing. There are plenty of women out there who lack self esteem and confidence, and they will be easy prey to a narcissist who likes to manipulate people for his own gains. Whether that becomes an unsatisfying one night stand or a long term abusive relationship will likely depend on how quickly she can spot his bullshit.

Of course, there are also those times when it's immediately obvious, but there will always be someone who falls for it.

AdComprehensive7939 · 2024-03-15T19:27:59+00:00

Everyone has insecurities but reassuring insecure people can be draining. Have you heard the terms "energy vampire" "succubus" "trauma dumping" etc? Ever heard anyone complain about a jealous partner? Lack of confidence can be an indication that one will need to do more mental/emotional labor in a relationship or friendship. Confidence is attractive to peers, students, coworkers - it's doesn't just translate to how women see men, but how people see each other. And because mental/emotional health is on trend right now, people are more focused than ever on signs that someone in their life might be toxic (and also examining themselves for behavior that could be toxic.)

Ultimately this is all a good thing for humanity, but sometimes people go overboard reading into behavior from initial interactions or situations. Example: neurodivergent people can come off as rude or self absorbed (due to a lack of social awareness or communication skills.) Confidence can put others at ease, and signals to people that one isn't emotionally needy and has more to give than take - even when it masks narcissistic or other undesirable traits. Humans make a lot of inferences from behavior based on our individual life experiences. Sometimes these takes are on point, other times off-base. Part of growth and maturity is getting better with discernment.

flipsidetroll · 2024-03-15T21:19:54+00:00

I’m going to try and explain it, and maybe will still do a bad job.

So the biggest turn off for women, certainly for me, is being fake. The overconfident, arrogant assholes are very often noticeably, putting on an act. Bragging about their cars etc, it smells like bullshit. Of course there are some airheads who will swoon at that. But most will smell the bullshit and decide they are vegetarian. Justin Waller is a prime example. Someone told him his quiet voice and weird stare shows confidence. Noooo. He looks like he pulls wings off butterflies and has a skinsuit in his basement. So creepy and so dumb.

Here’s where I may get clumsy in my explanation. So you can be shy, and still be confident. You can be quiet and still be confident. You can be short and still be confident. Why? Because there is something that you are knowledgeable about. There is something you are good at. Whether it’s your hobbies or your job or your sense of humour, anything. And that’s what you lean into. If you are shy, then talk about your shyness. Make that your superpower. If you are short, tell her you will climb her like a damn tree. And whatever you are passionate about. So your confidence will have to be learned but it won’t be fake. If you look like Quasimodo, then be confident in your uniqueness. You can ask your friends what they like about you and take it from there.

So, after probably confusing you more, overconfidence is fake, confidence is authentic. Hope that helps.

bluemagex2517 · 2024-03-15T14:12:05+00:00

The answer to this question is pretty multifaceted.

Firstly, being confident gets you to try more. A guy who is confident in his ability to talk to women is going to talk to more women, and thus even if the number of women attracted to him doesn't go up, the number that actually know that he's interested goes up. If there's 100 women around you, and 15 of them think your cute, but you only talk to 3 of them, your odds are really low. The odds go way up if you talk to 50 of them instead.

Secondly, confident people generally have better social skills and are more personable/charismatic. A big part of looking for a romantic partner is looking for someone you want to spend a great deal of time with. Most people would rather spend time with someone who's more fun to be around.

A few things you have confused:

I was roommate with someone who was narcissistic, looks down on people, just lacks empathy in general, and he does well with women, despite these negative traits.

I'm sure your roommate doesn't do well with all women, but he does well with some women, which is more than you. Being confident, even over confident, has helped him find his niche. A certain percentage of women don't care about those negative traits. He's able to find them. Just like some men will date psychotic women if they're attractive enough. It's not that all men will, but there's enough of them that a stereotypically attractive women who is violently psychotic will be able to date just fine.

Why does his “confidence” excuse those traits

It doesn't excuse those traits at all. It's just that some women don't care about them, or are really bad at noticing them.

The thing that still bugs me, even if it makes me a “nice guy”, is the idea that despite all the positive traits I feel I have to offer in terms of dating, it will always be overlooked due to my low confidence.

Well, as I explained above, it's more that women that would be interested in your other traits won't get to see those other traits if you lack confidence. You'll either be too un-confident to approach them, or you won't be very fun to hang out with right away. In either case it's not that your other traits aren't desired, it's more that you aren't giving yourself the opportunity to show them off.

This is the most important bit though: Even if you're less likely to find a romantic partner as someone who is not very confident, it's not impossible at all. There are a sizeable minority of women who prefer shy quiet and not very confident guys. You just have to figure out how to find them.

GladysSchwartz23 · 2024-03-15T14:39:00+00:00

It's simply a matter of whether that first move happens or not: if you never approach anyone, you'll never get anywhere, while if you approach a lot of people, most of them might reject you but one or two won't.

wasted_basshead · 2024-03-15T17:02:46+00:00

Women like men who are pro-social and being pro-social comes with a lot of confidence/perceived confidence.

DecisionPlastic9740 · 2024-03-15T17:21:23+00:00

You know yourself better than anyone else would. If you're not confident in yourself, why would she be confident in you?

Personal_Dirt3089 · 2024-03-15T22:20:14+00:00

Overconfident people simply try more, even if being rejected more.

There is also a difference when confidently approaching a situation as if you have other options and things are fine if it doesn't go your way, and approaching a situation as if your happiness depends on the outcome and this woman's approval.

Afterall, if on a first impression, someone acts like their happiness is completely dependent on your opinion of them, you will simply not want to spend time with them.

A lot of confidence depends on being fine with rejection.

Also, people do not stress this enough, but a good night's sleep makes a huge difference to confidence.

I am editing and adding this part later. Do not compare yourself to other guys. If your roommate is narcissistic and snooty, he may simply be clicking with women who are also narcissistic and snooty, and that just might be what his social circle is like. You are probably putting those women on a pedestal because they are attractive; You don't know those individuals, you don't know their personalities, you don't know who they click with. You don't know what his social circles are like or what the people in his social circle like. Women, especially attractive women, are not a monolith.

xvszero · 2024-03-15T16:41:58+00:00

It's not like, morally better.

It's just kind of a fact of life. If you know what you want and go out and work towards it, it's much more likely to happen than if you meekly just kind of wait for it. And it's not just that will make you more attractive but it also just puts you out in the world into more opportunities and such.

Of course there are other variables too.

wote89 · 2024-03-16T13:56:57+00:00

So, while I don't think I ever plunged to the level of full on "nice guy" territory—at least, I pray not—I am someone who had to learn confidence because I also conflated it with arrogance and thus viewed it as immoral. Better, I thought, to "stay humble" and not risk being an ass or a terrible person to others.

But, here's the thing: a lack of confidence is not humility. Humility is an active choice made by those who could be braggarts, who could belittle their peers and justify it, who could do nothing but demonstrate their superiority over others within a domain. It's a choice that says it's better to lift others up than to walk over their backs, to reject the emotional rush of lording over others, to treat others like you wish you'd been treated all the times someone was a dick to you.

But, you can't make that choice until you embrace what you're good for and realize that you have things to be arrogant about. We all do, because humans are fucking brilliant. Maybe you don't think it matters, because it's "low value" or because "it's a hobby", but so what? The aim isn't to lord it over people anyway, it's to recognize that there are ways in which you kick ass and embracing that kick-assitude... And then abiding in it that you could be a dick about it to other members of whatever community, but making the choice to instead uplift others. To genuinely humble yourself in a domain you have every right to exalt yourself within.

And you know what happens then? Slowly, but surely, you realize your other traits aren't half bad, either. That the people you help are still good people and that the things you hate or fear about yourself don't matter when you see them in others. And one day, you look in the mirror and show that same grace to yourself.

And when you stop hating yourself, stop fearing who you could be because you know you can choose not to be, stop treating yourself like dirt because you've mistaken self-abuse for virtue? That's when you realize that all "confidence" means is that you like yourself and aren't afraid to let others see that.

Maybe this isn't the answer you want, but I figure if nothing else, maybe it'll shed a light on what other folks are saying. Cheers!

oldcousingreg · 2024-03-16T22:35:48+00:00

Don’t confuse confidence with arrogance and inflated egotism. Confidence is feeling secure in yourself, and you don’t feel threatened by how others perceive you.

ROBYoutube · 2024-03-15T13:42:23+00:00

Confidence is absolutely not required for dating. I dated for decades before finding confidence for myself. Also, please stop lying like this:

I was roommate with someone who was narcissistic, looks down on people, just lacks empathy in general, and he does well with women, despite these negative traits.

You are not a psychologist. You aren't even on a level with your peer group. You are not qualified to tell anyone what your room mate's personality traits were.

SignifyingNothing5 · 2024-03-15T17:22:03+00:00

As someone who is quiet by nature I feel your pain. I think it's best to accept that people like to be acitvely engaged, and most are able and willing to actively engage others to keep the engagement flowing.

Enaging others is the giving part of a social give and take. It's easier and more natural for some to do, but that doesn't change the basic dynamic.

AnnoKano · 2024-03-15T18:35:50+00:00

Sorry, I don't know. Have you tried to ask someone else? I'm so sorry. They might know what the answer is...

floracalendula · 2024-03-15T21:00:02+00:00

Shouldn’t both of us struggle ? I feel like that’s where a lot of frustration comes from.

Not knowing how old you are, I can still confidently (hah!) say "yes, both of you should be experiencing struggle, and he should be experiencing more."

That said, I don't know what women your age see in men like your ex-roommate. It was the same way 20 years ago. Maybe there's some kind of cultural conditioning we were supposed to relieve that I missed out because I was too busy swooning over British detectives and men who were not romance novel caricatures ("brooding swine who does what he wants with women").

Allusionator · 2024-03-15T21:58:32+00:00

I want to respond to you about this but can you help me understand what you mean by your own ‘low confidence’. It’s hard to tell what traits you mean with that because some are much more problematic for romance than others. It’s hard to feel sexually attracted if a man can’t look at/speak to you, but maybe that’s not the type of low confidence you’re referring to?

In a very basic sense overconfident men take more chances and make themselves known as potential romantic partners so they’d be beating you in a numbers game but definitely less romantically successful than men with appropriate confidence because that shit is critical to attractiveness. ‘I am shit, love me’ doesn’t do so hot in the courtship stage, do you really think that is unfair?

mun1942 · 2024-03-16T22:16:50+00:00

Over confident contained negative fealing.

ViceNote · 2024-03-15T22:04:54+00:00

I dunno

Title	Why is being overconfident seen as so much better than having low confidence?
Author	AlphaTrion2628
Upvotes	15
Comments	62
Date	March 15, 2024 1:37 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/1bfe5ku/why_is_being_overconfident_seen_as_so_much_better/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/why-is-being-overconfident-seen-as-so-much-better.1426201 https://theredarchive.com/post/1426201

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