Is male suicide the iceberg of men's issues?

SomeoneRandom007 · 2024-05-13T12:41:20+00:00

For every man who kills himself...

It's been a journey with multiple assaults on his wellness, and

There are many men who are thinking about it.

An iceberg of icebergs.

Body_Horror · 2024-05-13T12:01:25+00:00

One of the worst things: You can't even talk about it to anyone because you'll get punished for it with getting hospitalized instead of addressing any of the problems which are causing it in the first place.

TheTinMenBlog · 2024-05-13T10:28:44+00:00

Beneath the surface of male suicide lies a murky world of icy darkness, and the shards of hidden trauma.

Like an iceberg – we limit men’s issues to what we can see, that icy white cap, and never look for what lies below.

Because beneath the calm, demure surface, often hides stories of the abused men, or bullied boys, tales of trauma, or neglect, and sexual violence; the life of the addicted, the lonely, or those fighting a losing battle for child custody…

Stories we ignore and wave away as not possible, or as insignificant, or arrogantly berate as ‘hijacking the conversation’.

And so the secret epidemic, unnoticed, drifts closer and closer still, until it crashes into the side of our boat, making real what we chose to ignore, to devastating consequences.

We care then.

When the sun loungers and beach towels of society are disturbed, and the water rushes in, we scrabble around in a panic…

We treat the issue too late.

The cause of a man’s suicide has taken its toll, and any chance to prevent or change course, to sail for safer waters, has long since gone.

Because suicide is not a distinct issue, but the end destination of various other problems when the volume is turned up to ten, and all hope has gone.

It is, a ‘rational and solution based decision’, as is coldly described by the latest research.

It is not something to be pathologised and medicated as ‘abnormal’, seen primarily as a ‘mental health problem’, or part of a ‘toxic’ male mindset that needs to be talked away.

And such perspectives have clearly failed us.

Failed because research often finds that suicidal men don’t consider their problem as being a ‘mental health problem’, as they are left to grapple with what lays beneath the surface.

And I know…

It’s easier to acknowledge only what we can see, to throw the burden of responsibility back upon men. But as with icebergs; we need to peer deeper, and further into the distance, to understand, before it’s too late.

So how far can you see, and how deep dare you look?

What do you think?

~
[1] [2] [3] [4]

Images by Kamran abdullayev, Alexandros Giannakakis, Annie Spratts, Hans Isaacs, Kristaps Ungurs, Paul-Campbell.

Dashing2026 · 2024-05-13T13:18:10+00:00

One of the most heinous feminist talking points is the idea that men commit suicide more often because supposedly they are conditioned to be selfish and pursue a goal (the goal in this question being suicide) at all costs. Hence by that logic men would be inclined to use severe methods for death such as hanging or a firearm.

Street_Conflict_9008 · 2024-05-13T12:21:50+00:00

I only see it getting some traction in the 2030's. This is the framework being established at this moment for male mental health.

elebrin · 2024-05-13T13:35:20+00:00

When men want to kill themselves it's for a REASON. We talk about depression and anxiety and all this other stuff, but these guys just want their suffering to end and they see no way to fix it any more.

Instead of fixing the problem, doctors put you on drugs that just make you numb and not care about fixing the problem any more then take away your means. In other words, their goal is to simply make you OK with your suffering rather than actually alleviate it and help you fix your problems.

RikuAotsuki · 2024-05-13T13:00:43+00:00

It can also be considered an iceberg in the sense that we don't know the actual frequency of male suicide.

We know, for example, that many suicides get reported as accidents, but the case can also be made that men also frequently engage in behavior that they fully expect to kill them, which can be considered a form of suicide in itself.

Frird2008 · 2024-05-13T11:33:07+00:00

The unfortunate news is, for as long as the problem doesn't affect greater society to the severity level required for them to pay attention & make the changes needed to even out the male-to-female self-deletion ratio (or better yet bring the ratio down to 0/0), the problem will continue to gradually worsen (by that, I mean the discrepancy in the ratio of male-to-female self-deletions) until greater society is impacted to the point where changing is the ONLY choice.

UnhappyInevitable680 · 2024-05-13T11:23:31+00:00

Neglect neglect neglect. Our culture is reactive and not proactive. I wonder if the “react” will ever even happen. I’ve talked with many women, and what I’ve noticed is if the issue doesn’t directly affect them or serve them, they don’t give a flying fuck. Women are monumentally selfish. Many of the women in PurplePillDebate sub that I argue with always reach a conclusion of “why should I care” or “I don’t care if your right” or “I don’t care what men think” or “I couldn’t give a shit about men’s issues “. They don’t even have arguments because they don’t care about truth. Like seriously they don’t care about consequences or of how small things affect society at large. They simply don’t care. They will lie and lie and lie until they die.

CreativeNerd1729 · 2024-05-13T12:08:31+00:00

Thanks for highlighting this important issue.

I knew this was a serious problem, but did not realise how much until I saw the breakdown in this link (see the section titled 'Countries and territories by suicide rate'):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate

In the majority of cases, the male suicide rate is far more than that of women.

The conspiracy theorist in me almost wonders if there's a global sinister plot underway to cull the population of men; by making policies & laws so gynocentrically hopeless for men that they are driven to kill themselves.

hottake_toothache · 2024-05-13T13:20:53+00:00

Of course it. Props to Tin Man.

Hanco90 · 2024-05-13T11:46:51+00:00

This will always be neglected and never pointed out, even if some "equal rights" organisations DO point it out, it would be solely to prove those statistics "fake" and will pull the new one from their ass.

Royal_IDunno · 2024-05-13T14:39:37+00:00

This was depressing to read but it needed to be shared as the suicide rate for men is always brushed aside.

AbysmalDescent · 2024-05-13T13:27:19+00:00

More men suffer, in silence, due to toxic femininity than they have ever suffered from toxic masculinity. The idea that men just kill themselves because they are toxic to themselves is a projection predominantly pushed by misandric women, it is toxic femininity.

Davidharley1903 · 2024-05-13T14:07:50+00:00

I got served papers yet again to reduce visitation time with my son. I am not going back to court. I am tired of fighting for what's mine. I am going to exit stage left this Saturday.

jokerfriend6 · 2024-05-13T15:48:58+00:00

For society where personal relationships vote against men, and loneliness are a big reason for suicide. Many men give up because they cannot see a road to success, and road to success for many is becoming more difficult.

rahsoft · 2024-05-13T19:00:09+00:00

about 5 years ago, I came across a young man who had twice attempted to end his life.

the reason? - his wife coerced him to first slash his wrists- he pulled out at the last second, the second time she coerced him to hang himself, but was saved by an intervention by the police( broke his leg though), when I met him he was medicated ( and almost high), I believe he had been temporarily sectioned to treat him.

the whole reason for the coercion was because his wife didn't want to share custody with him ( or allow him vistitation) for his kids.

Before then I never truly understood it, even though I had had a family member become suicidal after being denied cancer treatment at a young age because of their disability..

I didn't understand why people were checking on me so much whilst going through an abusive religious divorce( after years of domestic violence), and being erased from my childs life( just turned 14 two days ago,and haven't seen for 13 years..) until I read up on the very high risk for men( especially fathers) when going through high conflict divorce..

so.. everytime I see this issue and the excuses that are made for it by society , pretending to not know or understand why... rather than society( and that includes the various activists campaigning for their self interest against men) should look in the mirror and ask why would you do that to men???.. to anyone ????

Hotato86 · 2024-05-13T16:43:03+00:00

Constantly think about it, always kinda sad, nothing seems to help, not sex, working out or drugs. Been sad with life for a while, kind of accepting that this is my new normal. It's why I'm against having kids, don't want them to experience this feeling.

Billmacia · 2024-05-13T17:40:55+00:00

Men are problems fixer and when they see no others solutions and END their Lives, you can understand the problem is deep rooted. Since men would rather end their lives than fix an unfixable problem.

Eranon1 · 2024-05-13T17:36:02+00:00

Yes but it will be some time before these issues are addressed. During covid my ex got super abusive. I reached out and said I had been thinking of suicide, I've attempted twice before. She told me to do it. We went to couples therapy and she tried to defend what she had said and did not like it when the therapist told her in very clear terms that was wrong.

That's why this won't change for a while. Women still think men have all the advantages when we have been losing them for a while now. How many women's shelters are there vs men's? Perfect example

Current_Finding_4066 · 2024-05-13T11:49:13+00:00

I wonder how much society, that runs on people living more or less for work, contributes. Cause between sleep, basic maintenance (exercise, food, hygiene,...), transit to and from work and work, and god forbid you have kids, I do not see you have much time for anything else.

And men are expected to provide. More so than women, and consequences of failure are more serious for men in general.

AnotherPhilosopher · 2024-05-13T14:52:30+00:00

TIL I'm 143% more likely to kill myself. The more ya know.

RoryTate · 2024-05-13T17:34:29+00:00

Excellent post! I believe this is the one true "wedge issue" that can help male advocates communicate all of the other areas like employment, education, legal rights, family law, medical care, etc, where men are being treated like second-class citizens. Risk factors like unemployment, divorce and child estrangement, legal problems, and more, lead directly to an increase in suicide, yet nothing is being done to mitigate these root causes. In fact they're getting worse.

And kudos to you for pointing out the way men are blamed for this decades-long epidemic. It's well past time that we call out the tired old mantra of: "Men just need to talk about their feelings more" for the blatant and harmful medical misinformation that it is.

To do so unequivocally, I recommend publicizing at every opportunity the findings of a 2021 UK study. In the section about "Contact with services" for men who had committed suicide:

91% middle-aged men had been in contact with at least one service or agency at some time.

Most importantly, in the paper's conclusion, during the key messages section on page 30, they say the following:

Rates of contact with services among middle-aged men were higher than expected; almost all had been in contact with a front-line service or agency at some time. It is therefore too simplistic to say that men do not seek help.

So we have an actual scientific study, done recently (it came out in 2021), using data from over 1500 male suicides, and it specifically concludes that the "men do not seek help" narrative is simplistic and incorrect, based entirely on the evidence found. Yet, frustratingly, we still continue to see this urban myth about "men suffering in silence" parroted everywhere, from individual media figures (politicians, athletes, actors, etc) to large medical institutions like the APA. I wish that the general public could experience just a tiny amount of the anger I feel whenever I see what is rightly termed "harmful medical misinformation" being propagated so widely without pushback.

Trollsense · 2024-05-13T17:58:19+00:00

I’ve lost three friends to suicide, one just a few months ago after finding himself homeless due to rent costs increasing. Average men don’t matter to society, and it’s made clear to younger and younger males. Modern men being forced to pay for the actions of generations past.

IGiveUnethicalAdvice · 2024-05-13T14:42:36+00:00

A man's height also plays a big factor in his suicide rate

BananaB0yy · 2024-05-13T16:15:16+00:00

mentall illness is one the rise in both genders, its just that more men have the balls to go trough with their suicidal ideations

Sam999ick · 2024-05-13T17:49:55+00:00

Damn, this hits hard today. In today’s society where the middle class is being erased, women value self defeating behavior and toxicity over wholesome exchanges & long term goals. Buying a home is a pipe dream. There really isn’t much reason to stick around unless you want to be overworked and under appreciated.

International-Age352 · 2024-05-13T20:08:21+00:00

Do men not matter? I'd really appreciate 10 mins of your time to complete an anonymous survey. I am conducting a study to investigate whether adverse childhood experiences (ACE,s) & domestic voilence/ intimate partner voilence makes men feel like they don't matter. With suicide being the biggest killer in men under 40, could this be a contributing factor? https://forms.gle/quJ9eBKJ1eAuU3Dz7 Please share 🙏

Eastwood96 · 2024-05-13T13:07:25+00:00

No, just the tip of it.

Linkinator7510 · 2024-05-13T16:44:39+00:00

Damn dude, every one of these is a fucking masterpiece!

PeonSupremeReturns · 2024-05-13T19:13:48+00:00

I decided that not giving a shit was the better option, though it’s the more difficult one, because it’s very difficult to disengage from others emotionally.

Imoldok · 2024-05-13T20:26:15+00:00

If they offer help at work, it feels like you're about to pull the fire alarm on the building without cause and all of a sudden it hits the fan.

Salamadierha · 2024-05-13T21:46:59+00:00

This might annoy some, but just consider it for a minute.
Until recently, religion has had a very strong influence on society. That influence is dropping off in a big way, it's almost gone over here. One of the big rules is that suicide was a mortal sin, go to hell forever.

Now that the influence is gone, people, especially men, are realising they don't have to keep on living a desperate or painful existence.

I think the shitty situation for men has always been there, just now there are less reasons to stick around.

mexawarrior · 2024-05-14T00:22:08+00:00

No, suicide is a consequence. Men's issues are under appreciation and putting goal post to far from reality. We succumb to the pressure if pressed too long.

C0sm1cB3ar · 2024-05-13T15:15:27+00:00

Great job 👏

EatM3L053R · 2024-05-14T01:45:37+00:00

Doesn't matter what my iceberg is, I've already tried committing suicide once before, I'm just done being a doormat, I'm tired of this broken fucking system this country has left its people in.

I'm tired of being persecuted for the crimes of bad men, yet I have to shoulder the blame because I was born male. So I've decided to just walk away. I'm only going to think of myself, and the few people in my life that matter most.

I'm gonna be selfish and cater to hookup culture since relationships are a joke now (I know this doesn't help but I apologize to those not participating in HC, who would be affected by this) and I'm gonna enjoy my videogames, my vodka, my personal time, and peace of mind in the house I bought.

No-Avocado-533 · 2024-05-14T03:54:47+00:00

We kill ourselves because we've become useless.

IamTheConstitution · 2024-05-14T04:50:50+00:00

I’m weary to put this on anything like being bullied or loneliness or trauma. I think we all have that but most boys are fine and we’re fine. I think having good parents will really make a difference. I was lucky to have a great mother, but so many single moms and not all are so supportive and thinking back it must of been so rough for her mentally especially since I was a little shit. But I digress. I think one of the biggest problems for many things including this is single parents and of course mostly being mothers. We should be rewarding families to stay together rather than reward single mothers. Take away welfare. Give all married couples with kids $500 a month per kid or something like that.

_Genghis_John_ · 2024-05-14T06:53:50+00:00

Slide 7 needs to be shared across every facet of media

fuckthemoddsofreddit · 2024-05-14T21:44:24+00:00

Stay strong everyone. Life can be worth living.

GotSomeCookieBlues · 2024-05-15T07:45:32+00:00

Probably, sadly. It hurts, it really hurts my heart. We should be doing something about this

Jurassican_25 · 2024-05-16T00:39:04+00:00

It’s always a joke until it happens.

Unless your a man, in which case it’s still a joke.

Edit: probably should put a /s here just in case

BravoPUA · 2024-05-13T16:23:45+00:00

Was the suicide rate higher or lower for men, a few generations ago, when life was MUCH MUCH harder?

Imoldok · 2024-05-13T20:29:48+00:00

Are suicidal men actually heroes looking for a war to throw their life into danger for others without caring?

WannabeLeagueBowler · 2024-05-13T19:06:37+00:00

No.

I'm an extremist when it comes to men's rights. Half the things I post are banned here. But suicide? I never bother. Unlike circumcision, suicide is ultimately your choice, and only a small minority make that choice, and even if that small minority has doubled in size, it's still a small minority. It's not going to animate people. If it spurs any action at all, it will be "more mental health", which is a disaster. We already have a third of boys on Ritalin. Drugs and psychotherapists need to be eliminated, not expanded.

I take suicide to signify something about the health of society, meaning it would be a self correcting problem, kind of like AIDS. It's not some iceberg that once you hit it it's all over.

Lolocraft1 · 2024-05-13T15:39:54+00:00

Great post as usual, but I’m bugged by the graphic on page 2. How can google search be 100% about male suicide for a whole year?

Title	Is male suicide the iceberg of men's issues?
Author	TheTinMenBlog
Upvotes	937
Comments	105
Date	May 13, 2024 10:28 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1cqvz5b/is_male_suicide_the_iceberg_of_mens_issues/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/is-male-suicide-the-iceberg-of-mens-issues.1518376 https://theredarchive.com/post/1518376

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