How can I stop seeing myself as post-wall?

spiral_dinosaur · 2024-09-03T10:25:23+00:00

Men who think there's such thing as a "wall" are not the kind of men anyone should date anyway.

Stop watching any of that red pill stuff. Delete your social media accounts and start again if you have to. Replace it with some feminist accounts and other healthy relationship accounts.

xvszero · 2024-09-03T15:24:29+00:00

The wall is an idea made up by sad men trying to control women.

My wife is 42 and she is hot as fuck and the thought of leaving her for a younger woman is hilarious to me, regardless of perceived physical attraction. Younger women are basically kids to me now (no offense).

I have to say too, like literally no one I know in my community is out there trying to date 20 year olds. I'm sure some 40-ish guys are like that but most of the guys I know who aren't already taken are looking for women they can actually relate to not just a young body.

Venustarr_777 · 2024-09-03T14:57:22+00:00

De-center men and relationships for a while. I'm 44. Been single MOST of my life and happier than a lot of married women/people I know.

Happiness is within. Your focus is on the wrong thing.

Designer-Arugula6796 · 2024-09-03T12:47:27+00:00

There’s red pill lore and then there are basic truths. Some examples of red pill BS include that 80% of women are only interested in 20% of men, that underlying dread is needed to maintain a long term relationship with a woman, and that men peak at 38.

However, if you’re a single 27 year old woman that wants to find a good man and start a family, is feeling pressure a normal response? Absolutely. Same thing for men in your position as well, but especially for a woman. Generally speaking you’re still young, but meeting a man, going through the whole dating process, deciding you want to marrying and have kids with him, and then actually having kids is typically a multi year process, so yeah if you want those things you definitely should be actively looking.

One of the most destructive things redpillers tell guys is that for men, they age like fine wine and peak at 38 so they should just keep their head down in their 20s and solely focus on increasing their status and not even consider monogamy. The fact of that matter is that both men and women “peak” young and dating only gets harder as you age.

Your concern that when you’re 45 your husband will cheat on you with a young woman isn’t entirely unfounded, but since you’re not seeing any man specifically it’s entirely abstract. You just need to focus on finding the most trustworthy man possible, and then hope he doesn’t do that. It’s “possible” that when I’m 45 my wife leaves me for a pool boy, but our love is incredibly strong, she is incredibly trustworthy and family oriented, etc. so that is a very slim chance in my judgement. That’s why people typically date for 1,2,3, etc years before getting married. To try to make sure that they won’t do something like that. Redpillers that say it’s inevitable that all men will do that are full of shit.

Overall stop listening to red pill content. When meeting people you have to have an open heart and discerning mind. Listening to their drivel will drain all the vibrance of your personality. If you do want relationship advice though, listen to their podcasts and do the exact opposite. That has worked spectacularly well with my wife.

eurmahm · 2024-09-03T14:15:24+00:00

Have you seen a picture of Jennifer Connolly? Monica Bellucci? Salma Hayek? Halle Berry? Michelle Yeoh? Angela Bassett? All over 50. In fact, many of them have become more and more beautiful as they have gotten older.

There is no wall. There are definitely crappy societal pressures regarding women aging, but it's within your generation's power to decide NOT to do that to yourselves or others, and reform the system as you see fit.

Stop allowing a couple of angry guys on the internet who hate women to decide who you are. Please.

PS - my husband is 46 this year, and so far, no "hot 20 year olds" in sight, though he definitely makes enough money and looks young enough to attract one if he wants - he even has an Aussie accent which the ladies luuuuuurv, lol. I am 44, and although I was young and healthy when we met 15 years ago, I am now not able to work due to a rare, severe immune deficiency. If anyone was going to get left in the dust, it would be me...yet here I am. Happy, loved, supported, and living my best life possible. You can absolutely have the same, but not if you keep internalizing this self-hatred.

manysidedness · 2024-09-03T15:56:20+00:00

There’s no such thing as the wall. If you look good for your age the wall doesn’t actually exist. And any man who would lose interest in your because you’re past 25 is not a man you want to volunteer to spend time with.

AssistTemporary8422 · 2024-09-03T15:04:28+00:00

Basically you have to easily refute these red pill beliefs. If you just don't believe them but the refutation is somewhat weak then that makes you vulnerable to emotional beliefs. And also don't have an agenda to refute them because you know its biased. The strongest refutation is when you are being fair to the belief and are still able to easily refute it. So lets evaluate some of these beliefs:

I've mentally resigned myself to the idea of dating older men because in my mind 26 year Olds don't like me or find me attractive.

Evaluate the truth of this belief with as much evidence as possible.

Even worse, I have come to sort of accept the idea that marrying a man is stupid because when I'm 45 he'll leave me or have an affair with a hot 20 year old and this is inevitable.

Do the same with this belief.

thrownawaytodaysr · 2024-09-03T15:18:40+00:00

TLDR: There's no good evidence to support the existence of a wall.

Body:

As you already confirmed you cannot afford therapy, you may want to consider self-help books on CBT (such as Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for Dummies) to start addressing these beliefs.

I have been finding that there's this weird, implied notion that dating should be easy and that if and when it isn't, it is the result of some kind of personal flaw, deficiency, or other shortcoming. The RP mindset seems to suggest that things are easy for women until they hit "the wall" and then suddenly things get harder for them, rather than demographic trends of people tending to be in relationships as you get older and therefore not having as many opportunities. Never mind that our social frameworks tend to reorient significantly after leaving post-secondary education and entering the workforce. Our social circles continue to shrink or stagnate unless we meet with a concerted effort to grow them.

If you're finding yourself struggling in dating in your mid-to-late 20s, it's because the pool has shrunk (more people in stable, committed relationships) your opportunities for meeting other singles has shrunk (due to reduced leisure time, more stable and established friend groups, fewer socially acceptable methods of randomly meeting people, dating apps being kind of a wasteland, etc.), and the dating landscape itself is a bit different.

The same people who would have been attracted to you are <26 are the same ones who will be attracted >26. There's just fewer age appropriate singles. The demographic data backs this up. Under 29, 41% of people are single. 30 to 49, that number dips to 23%.

There are some pieces that do allude to age gap trends in dating, such as only 19% of women ages 30 to 49 being single whereas for men in the same age demographic it's 27%. The 18-29 demo has a similarly skewed divide between men and women with men at 51% single and women at 32% single, suggesting women tend to date older. That trend only equalises at 50-64, and then inverts at 65+. This suggests that age gap relationships are more normative.

But what this data also happens to show is that in terms of advantage in dating at around your own age, you have an advantage. For every single woman in your age bracket, there are 1.5 single men. And given how much whinging many men make on here about being single, it seems like there's many who would be desperate to be with someone like yourself.

That leads to the final point: I can't imagine that you would want to resign yourself to being with someone who didn't at least meet or exceed your needs. Which suggests that it won't be easy or quick. That might mean needing to make concessions on some fronts (which may include age within reason or maybe not), but it absolutely does not mean you've hit an age-related barrier that suggests you have less to offer or less value. You've merely hit a demographic wall that literally everyone hits when they are single in their late 20s and early 30s. It gets harder to meet people irrespective of gender and other demographic factors. It's important to not see the correlation and infer causality. If you're feeling it's real, it reads to me like you're seeing data that would seem to support the hypothesis of the wall and it is feeding into your fear that maybe, just maybe the wall is real, even though you know logically this can't possibly be the case. It seems like it's the "maybe" that is haunting you more so than a real belief in the wall. So let me assure you, the wall doesn't exist. If everyone were to suddenly become single by some magical event, it isn't as if everyone who was in a relationship would suddenly realign their romantic interests along age-based lines. They would almost certainly seek out individuals closer in age to their previous romantic partners. For some, that would mean age gaps. For others, not so much.

And the statistics on age gaps in marriage reflect that the majority of marital relationships (76.6%) are between people within 5 years of age to each other. 60.4% are within 3 years of each other. And while that means you will find exceptions where the age skew is far greater, it isn't the norm. The most common marriages are between those within 1 to 2 years of each other based on a 2017 survey within the US.

Basically, there's no useful or meaningful evidence for the concept of the wall. The data don't support it and as much as you may witness outliers in your day-to-day, they are only outliers.

18.8% of men have gaps bigger than 6 years with their spouse. That means 81.2% don't.

You're fine.

But to reiterate: highly recommend getting a book on CBT to help work through this and other issues you might be facing.

SnuffyFrubby · 2024-09-03T22:15:33+00:00

Put down the social media. Look around at real life people you see, like friends and neighbors. You'll see that most of them are in relationships with people close to their own age

I'm a 30.5 year old woman and in a relationship with a man who just turned 33. I've always dated within 3 years of my age.

I have a male friend who is 37 and won't even talk to women under 30 because he finds them too immature and has found that they play too many mind games. He wasn't trying to specifically sort by age, but he's met some younger women via his hobbies and the immaturity has pushed him to have a firm age floor that he doesn't go under.

Meanwhile I know a man nearing 60 who refuses to date women his own age and guess what? He hasn't dated or had sex in a long time.

That's the real world outside of red pill forums

rdr1111 · 2024-09-03T15:14:46+00:00

This is why it's so important to teach women they are valuable and beautiful no matter what. I'm sure many woman feel the same way you do and perhaps jump into what could be a terrible marriage because they feel they may not get a partner after they "hit the wall".

I hope you're able to overcome those thoughts op 💛 i used to have them too

snoort · 2024-09-03T16:28:31+00:00

Everyone you have been so lovely and helpful! I'm so happy I found this sub, thank you all for the kind advice and I wish everyone here the best

PrettyPistol87 · 2024-09-03T19:29:04+00:00

lol I’m post wall and I got married later in life to the 666 club. I don’t know what the female equivalent would be - but my bmi is good and I make 6 too. I got there by myself.

Gotta get your independence sorted PRIORITY ONE. No boys! They will hold you back with exploited your emotions just for them to go back on their word. Some guy wanted to take me with him to his next job site while I was still in college. Fuck no. Ofc we broke up months later. I am so glad I did not take what he said seriously and planned for it.

Red pill is a fairy tale - maybe where people peak in high school and end up fat and bald. That ain’t us!

TopIncrease6441 · 2024-09-03T15:14:13+00:00

https://youtu.be/TYdxYLTcp_4?si=-QU9hSpntbWlJevb

Here’s a video you can listen to.

BosonCollider · 2024-09-03T15:50:22+00:00

You're still in your f-ing twenties. Don't worry.

There is a wall, sure. Eventually you will die of old age and a few billion years later the sun will engulf the earth. There'll always be good people to interact with as long as humanity is left. Use the sixty-something years you have now to try to enjoy life. If something bad happens in your forties you can still bounce back.

Do try to meet people. Join a board game club or whatever and make some friends. Go on a ski trip. Do things. Enjoy life

KingMysoFutureHdrx · 2024-09-03T17:55:07+00:00

get off in internet. nobody says that garbage in real life

4Bforever · 2024-09-03T18:09:06+00:00

You must know women in real life older than you who haven’t had a while, who are still attractive and in demand

I’m a middle-aged woman and I can tell you that I was hottest in my 30s. I live in the Los Angeles area so pretty much everyone was hotter than me, I was still most popular with men when I was in my 30s.

The last guy who tried to pick me up was 23, when I told him my age he lied and said he was 28, Even 28 was too young but once I found out he was 23 I had to stop talking to him lol

But I’m not going to convince you to get married because they do cheat. A man I dated in my 20s is still obsessed with me today and he’s been trying to cheat on his wife with me for 10 years. Maybe a little more I’m not exactly sure when they got married he tried to hide that from me because he was still trying to sleep with me.

And this is a man who didn’t want to marry me, it’s not like I was the one who got away or anything. He was religious and wanted kids, I am atheist and Childfree so even though we had amazing chemistry and great sex there was never going to be a future for us outside of that. So the fact that he married this woman, they had a kid together, and he was still trying to have sex with me made me feel really sad for her (I ended up telling her & blocking him)

So yeah, you’re not gonna hit a wall if you take care of yourself. My mom had her last baby when she was 42 years old (accidental pregnancy) and while I would not recommend that as a plan, he is happy and healthy and he’s a great guy (makes 6 figures, wife & beautiful daughter), and she enjoyed motherhood a lot more in her 40s than she did in her 20s after divorcing my dad.

PrettyPistol87 · 2024-09-03T19:28:52+00:00

lol I’m post wall and I got married later in life to the 666 club

Gotta get your independence sorted PRIORITY ONE. No boys! They will hold you back with exploited your emotions just for them to go back on their word. Some guy wanted to take me with him to his next job site while I was still in college. Fuck no. Ofc we broke up months later. I am so glad I did not take what he said seriously and planned for it.

Red pill is a fairy tale - maybe where people peak in high school and end up fat and bald. That ain’t us!

vb2509 · 2024-09-03T22:30:23+00:00

I've mentally resigned myself to the idea of dating older men because in my mind 26 year Olds don't like me or find me attractive.

Doubt that is true. 25M here and my recent crushes were older than me, one of them being your age.

oopsiesdaze · 2024-09-03T23:10:52+00:00

I'm so sorry they made you think that. You're IN YOUR PRIME! 25 is a baby. You're young.

VisceralSardonic · 2024-09-03T13:23:39+00:00

Are you able to pursue therapy? Therapy is often built around things like “I have this unhelpful belief and don’t know how I can change it and work through this.” You’re going through something very human and understandable and okay, but this kind of thing sometimes ends up being a self-fulfilling prophecy if you don’t truly work through it. You might seek someone who “makes sense” to that part of your brain, and that may result in you being with someone who think that that part of your brain is right about women and age. I don’t want to see you get hurt because of a belief you’re already trying to tackle, and I see the work you’re doing to make sure this doesn’t hold you back.

Beyond that, go out and make friends who are in healthy relationships. See the real world. People are socializing less these days, which isn’t healthy for anyone. Rake leaves for your elderly neighbors and let them tell you about their life together. Join a club. I have so many people in my life in happy marriages in their fifties, sixties, even eighties, and things like remembering how animatedly an elderly relative talked about how nice his wife looks in a red dress has kept me from believing in men adhering to “the wall,” even if I might believe it otherwise.

TLDR: Therapy and context.

luridlurker · 2024-09-03T14:05:33+00:00

How can I unlearn this? Have I truly wasted my prime? How can I stop obsessing over age and start living my life?

Do something useful. Something you can be proud of. Learn a new skill. Build something. Read books. Etc. etc.

watsonyrmind · 2024-09-03T14:43:30+00:00

I'm 34 and get hit on by 25 year olds an annoying amount as I am not interested in dating them.

Sounds like you have the same issue as incels as in you need to meet more people. These are the types of problems that generally can't exist with a healty active social life (though there are exceptions I'm sure). Pill rhetoric is so detached from reality, it's hard to hold onto when it's irrelevant to your day-to-day life.

xweert123 · 2024-09-03T17:12:50+00:00

There's unfortunately not much advice we can give you here, outside of looking at the megathread and finding the actual reality behind how people work.

The problem is that you're believing in something that is simply not congruent with reality, and the type of men you would be trying to please by believing in this, aren't men you should be seeking, regardless. What kind of information or evidence are you looking for? What do you think it would take for you to change your mind?

TypicalProfit8475 · 2024-09-03T22:48:24+00:00

Here’s a secret about men… we want long term relationships too, and will love a good woman through all her changes and seasons. All of that red pill bs is superficial nonsense about attracting a “high value” (read good looking with status and look - superficial) partner. Try and work on you to become a good woman and seek out a partner who has worked on themselves to be a good man, good values, emotionally healthy, and ready to give and received from another.

Polish_Girlz · 2024-09-04T02:13:20+00:00

Don't watch this shyt. You will get depressed. The only impact it has is wanting not to go out with men.

It's weird for you to be feeling this way at such a young age. Why not think about freezing your eggs in your early 30s?

roman_erudite · 2024-09-04T15:51:49+00:00

Omg 26? That's so young. I'm 37. You could say I'm in my prime right now. At least career-wise and physical fitness. However you're too young for me to date. I'm targeting early 30s. Now if you have am older friend... Relax, you're young! Just make sure to not waste your life. Enjoy it, live the most and make good decisions. Lots of good happy years ahead for you.

Maxi_F1r · 2024-09-17T07:44:01+00:00

When I was 16 years old, I had my first crush. She was a 30 year old women. And I wasn’t even looking for older women.

HugsFromCthulhu · 2024-09-03T11:08:54+00:00

Turning off all that RP garbage is a good first step. The next step is to view content that actively subverts the RP narrative. Look for examples and accounts of people who have been together for years and have loving relationships.

This will begin to break down the false narrative you've internalized. Keep feeding yourself this way of seeing things.

Personal_Dirt3089 · 2024-09-03T17:01:06+00:00

main takeaways: 1 The people that write this stuff and make money on this stuff, through ads and ebooks, do not actually believe in it. That's why their arguments sound very bad faith when you break them down, and just sound like they are made to evoke emotion rather than use any logic. It is not meant to be correct, it is meant to sell.

2 It is marketed towards insecure young guys, and is tailored to push the right buttons to get their attention. "If you read our BS, you can be an alpha male without ever leaving your home but women will harm you if you don't read out BS".

3 I am going to be honest here, I think you may have some extra anxiety and the redpill BS triggered it. Redpill BS is worded and tailored to get in your head by sounding as shocking as possible. Learn to self monitor and step back if you catch yourself getting into black and white thought patterns.

4 This subreddit gets posts by men and women with similar problems caused to them by reading redpill, so you are not alone.

It's ragebait. I will copy paste my old response to someone that asked something similar to you:

ragebait is addicting. However, a lot of these videos are also made to start mild, even sounding rational in the beginning, then escalating to ragebait and "only our method can solve this!" type talking. Also, these people rehearse this and they take time writing things that will have this pace and tone. These videos are designed to do that. It's not just some guys talking naturally.

"Women are different from men and that causes some confusions" {sounding mild and maybe even rational at first} then somehow leads to "and as a result, 23 year olds are all making onlyfans and going on the cock carousel with the same 10% of men and no woman will ever like you" {ragebait} and this somehow leads to "but our method will get you the women, especially the 20 year old virgins that have been saving themselves just for you, to start flocking to you and want to marry you even though you are totally going to get a harem with our methods" {salespitch}.

WatchOutItsAFeminist · 2024-09-04T03:39:02+00:00

The older I get the more I feel sure of myself and feel like I've hit my prime. The kind of men who use the term "wall" aren't worth having anyway.

Most_Read_1330 · 2024-09-04T04:51:01+00:00

Wall doesn't really exist. Women are in demand at all ages.

Mobile_Yoghurt_2840 · 2024-09-04T09:15:44+00:00

Don’t let this red pill bullshit make you waste time by telling yourself that you’re not worth anything and all that shit. Majority of the men today are not brainwashed by the red pill, they are just going from their own values. Even the perverted man that hasn’t been brainwashed by the red pill doesn’t think this way, they may be into milfs or so fourth and you’re still not even a milf, you’re fine. There’s many normal men who will be into you and see your value you put, and besides, 26-7 is not old and I’m sure you’re still very young. 40+ is older and 50+ is old. I’m sure you’ll meet a variety of men in the real world, it’s very complicated and full of men of each spectrum of the world and personality and vibrancy and colors and so fourth

lyn3182 · 2024-09-04T16:57:45+00:00

Honestly, for any ideology, and it’s all ideology, you just have to frequently expose yourself to the kinds of things you want to believe.

Like self indoctrination.

Reverse-engineer the way you indoctrinated yourself into red pill stuff.

Build yourself a podcast playlist of the healthy beliefs you want to have, and be relentless about consuming that kind of content.

Human brains are a lot less evolved than we think. It’s super easy to build those beliefs by constant exposure.

LazyDaisyCake · 2024-09-04T18:07:27+00:00

Hey, OP. Just wanna say I relate to you. I am in the same position. I also did the exact same compulsion of googling male celebs with younger* women. It’s rough out here lol. Make sure to develop some self esteem, as you can become vulnerable to evil people without good boundaries. Best wishes to you.

Honeyhoneyandco · 2024-09-04T18:08:07+00:00

That’s so interesting.. I’m 26. Single mom too. & I feel like I’m in my prime. I’ve never been happier, & I feel like I look a lot better too. I feel more confident in myself, & even sexier. I look back at photos of me in my early 20’s & think ew haha I looked so awkward. Granted… that could also be bc I was in an abusive marriage.

It’s interesting to see just how our views are polar opposite, even tho we are both 26. The only similarities tho, I’m also afraid of getting into getting in a relationship. I fear of getting with another secret abusive partner. Especially with the way men talk about women… it’s a scary world out there

BurbNBougie · 2024-09-06T12:45:24+00:00

At some point you have to understand and reinforce that we all get older every single day. That programming that you are less than, simply bc you dared to live another day or another year has to change. You lived. Do you wanna stay alive? Part of the human experience is getting older.

You have got to stop worrying about the opinions and validation of men. Have you seen how they are aging?? The normal ones, not the rich ones or celebrities?? Stop worrying about what they have to say.

Mr_KenSpeckle · 2024-09-10T05:36:53+00:00

Even Red Pill guys acknowledge that not all women hit the wall at the same time. They acknowledge that women who take care of themselves can stay attractive well into their 30’s, if not longer.

If this is something that concerns you, then prioritize the kinds of things that would promote your self-care. Exercise, stretching, minimal drinking, no smoking, balanced diet, prioritizing good sleep.

Stress is a silent killer and ager so think about what you could do to minimize that. Probably at the top of that list would be to avoid consuming internet content that doesn’t put you in a good frame of mind.

MeanSeaworthiness6 · 2024-09-10T20:15:30+00:00

I'm 34 and looking for a woman 26+ to get married to and start a family...you're the perfect age so stop being hard on yourself.

Take care of yourself, love yourself, and respect yourself.

Metapuns · 2024-09-28T09:15:03+00:00

Subscribe to milf-core. Make "Stacy's Mom" your ringtone, look at cartoon mom tierlists. Nobody loves older women more than young men! Though you're too young for them anyway ;) but for real, I get it. I genuinely felt untouchable when I was 20 and still a virgin, especially when that side of the internet makes it clear that it should be SO easy to get men as a woman. But the fact people can guess an age wrong is just fact that at the end of the day it's just a number.

Top_Radio_9436 · 2024-09-03T19:02:00+00:00

I relate to the obsession about age stemming from COVID. I am 29 and when COVID happened I had already lost some of my twenties to toxic relationships and bad choices. I definitely started worrying about my age. I can see how someone in that state could get into this thinking. Redpill feeds off of this.

I don't believe in the wall. From the physical side it doesn't matter; individual people (esp. men) can be (and often are) attracted to a wide range of bodies. I was dating a woman who was five years older than me just recently. There is allot of variability in what turns people on. Also, marriage is going to be terrible if you don't pick someone who reflects your values and with whom you can trust.

There is no universal set of biologically determined rules that apply to everyone on Earth. People are way more diverse than redpillers can seem to grasp. Redpill is an over-simplistic and ideologically biased interpretation of humans that doesn't even come close to accounting for all of the nuances surrounding sex, attraction, human behavior, etc.

vb2509 · 2024-09-03T22:28:22+00:00

I've mentally resigned myself to the idea of dating older men because in my mind 26 year Olds don't like me or find me attractive.

False.

25M here, my recent crush was 29 (rejected me for being too young), the one before her was 26 (not over her ex), the one before her was likely 30+ (left me on read), the one before was probably 30+ (lost imterest since she is a smoker) too.

I consider looks subjective and know women attractive even in their 30s and beyond. Taking care of your health is a great thing you can do for yourself.

Pineapple-Sunflower · 2024-09-04T03:05:34+00:00

Stop talking to males. And focus on women on girl code.

The men who call you post wall or left overs were never planning to give you a life that you deserve anyway. They would groom you at 15 and keep you bare foot and pregnant at 19.

Its better to hit the wall of a nice house than hit rock bottom because men screwed you over.

A good future takes care of you better than any man will. Education and careers are golden doors that will never close in your face.

A woman's value increases with money and accomplishments too but the manners from the red far community doesn’t want you to believe that.

absolutebeginners · 2024-09-03T12:24:45+00:00

Grow up. You sound 17

Anthenore · 2024-09-03T22:21:28+00:00

You're lucky you're a woman, you have 1000 more chances than men.

Title	How can I stop seeing myself as post-wall?
Author	snoort
Upvotes	42
Comments	82
Date	September 3, 2024 10:18 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/1f7wdgv/how_can_i_stop_seeing_myself_as_postwall/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/how-can-i-stop-seeing-myself-as-post-wall.1529252 https://theredarchive.com/post/1529252

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