(American) Redpillers had the biggest Women Are Wonderful bias

Mydragonurdungeon · 2024-12-12T13:08:48+00:00

You didn't list how reasons just what you consider examples

wtknight · 2024-12-12T13:44:41+00:00

I don’t think that it’s the “women are wonderful” messaging that affected Red Pillers so much as the “women are an oppressed minority” messaging. A lot of Red Pillers feel pretty inferior themselves, or at least “less than they should be”. And the messaging that women are the ones suffering but they somehow are not seems to radicalize them against women.

Cases involving some of the infamous women are extreme and not reflective of the overall perception that women have been victimized and therefore need protection and coddling. And the losses of female presidential candidates are inevitably followed by accusations by the left wing of how patriarchic and stupid Americans are, and less often about how these candidates were less than ideal selections for president (Clinton due to perceived dishonesty, Harris for her ties to an unpopular presidency that negatively affected people economically).

Schleudergang1400 · 2024-12-12T13:15:16+00:00

the woman are wonderful effect has scientific evidence. You just have anecdotes and ridicule. Try harder.

Throwaway26702008 · 2024-12-12T13:05:15+00:00

If you haven’t seen male feminists having loads of internalized Misandry then you’re blind to it

Edit: a lot of arguing here huh? To be clear, im left wing and dont have anything inherently against feminists or male feminists, as long as they don’t say anti men stuff.

Someone for example im not sure about would be bell hooks, she says a lot of men stuff but a lot of it is ACCURATE and shes right about intersectionality. The problem is that male and female feminists will ignore the fact that men are also victims of the patriarchy, and that women who push the patriarchy arent victims of it, they’re perpetuaters of it.

Like this is an amazing amount of self reflection thar more feminists need to do and more redpills need to know about:

“Most women do not want to deal with male pain if it interferes with the satisfaction of female desire. [...] When I was in my twenties, I would go to couples therapy, and my partner of more than ten years would explain how I asked him to talk about his feelings and when he did, I would freak out. He was right. It was hard for me to face that I did not want to hear about his feelings when they were painful or negative, that I did not want my image of the strong man truly challenged by learning of his weaknesses and vulnerabilities. Here I was, an enlightened feminist woman who did not want to hear my man speak his pain because it revealed his emotional vulnerability. It stands to reason, then, that the masses of women committed to the sexist principle that men who express their feelings are weak really do not want to hear men speak, especially if what they say is that they hurt, that they feel unloved.” -bell hooks

Hi-Road · 2024-12-12T14:21:06+00:00

I agree about many redpill beliefs reflecting it pretty bad. To the point many are obsessed with women and their behavior.

On the flip side, as a guy it’s hard to believe that it doesn’t exist after seeing things go down. It’s weird because it actually does damage to women as well. Socially and possibly even legally - most of us have probably seen bias toward women. I don’t think that it’s women’s fault though. This is definitely one thing that’s on men. And just like most men both knowingly and unknowingly take advantage of and suffer from patriarchy and their position, most women do the same with this.

Women can’t be rapists or pedos, domestic violence disputes, chivalry, “provider” men and “kept” women, and the expectations for adult men to give their lives for adult women.

And women suffer from infantilization, barriers barring them from the workforce (“a women can’t do this job”), still some social ostracization for varying degrees of sexual freedom, looked at sideways for CLOTHING, still seen by many as holy baby producing machines.

and would it be wrong of me to say that the vast majority of women definitely have an inherent bias to other women because of their position? Whenever news drops or something happens between an man and a women, even on Reddit, do most women not immediately back the women without hesitation? Even for things like cheating, from women that don’t know the guy - it’s usually “he probably deserved it” or “what’d he do 🤨”

FreitasAlan · 2024-12-12T14:30:13+00:00

Are you going to make a second post with the argument for it, or is that it?

Xeltar · 2024-12-12T14:45:32+00:00

I think the bias does exist to some extent. You can see it reflected in the disparity of how men and women are sentenced for similar crimes.

But that belief/bias is also not good for anyone to hold, it puts women on a pedestal and sets them up with unfair expectations and gets in the way of examining facts of matters. Same as any other "positive" stereotype of groups.

LostWanderer88 · 2024-12-12T15:16:34+00:00

I don't even get what's the point or reasoning behind your post. What the hell is the "Women are wonderful" concept?

And I don't know about red pillers, but anti-woke certainly didn't follow the "women are wonderful" bias

babazuki · 2024-12-12T13:27:32+00:00

Hey! Wtf? I remember posting some stupid shit about Beauty and the Beast in the "Off Topic" sections of one of your posts. It had nothing to do with your post. And you responded "Stop using fiction to talk about reality."

Where's the consistency here?

I found it. "Alot of guys here will put no effort into being appealing to women" That was the post

I had a pretty good point about how shitty Belle was I think

Separate-Sector2696 · 2024-12-12T13:22:58+00:00

I would love to see this proof of ‘Women Are Wonderful’

The "women are wonderful" effect is quite literally supported by tons of studies that universally agree on its existence (something incredibly rare in psychology/sociology). I suggest you take a look at the Wikipedia page.

OR they let small groups of celebrities and blue haired feminists bother them way more than it does the average person.

These "small groups of celebrities and blue haired feminists" are the ones who control academia, the mainstream media, social media (except for Twitter/X now), and the entire entertainment industry.

Wokeism is only a very recent issue in the USA and even then it was mostly an internet culture war issue that rarely affected people. When it was ever in the public eye, it mostly got rejected

Where do you live? If you live in a blue area, wokeness is a HUGE thing even in real-life. For my entire life I've lived in nothing but extremely blue cities in extremely blue states, and quite a few people in real life espouse rhetoric identical to what you'd see on the internet.

Ziogatto · 2024-12-12T13:48:13+00:00

lol, lmao even.

Corbast7 · 2024-12-12T13:39:13+00:00

I think to put it another way, it’s not that the WAW effect is false (it’s informed by common gender stereotypes), but I’d say that many people tend to shift away from this mindset once they’ve gone through middle and high school and interacted with a few awful mean girls. Even many girls commonly hate other girls after some bad experiences as a kid.

If anything a lot of people struggle with finding balance and seeing the humanity in people beyond gender stereotypes. The men who can’t get over the fact that women aren’t these magical princesses who can do no wrong seem to also eventually turn into the guys who think women are the more malicious, stupid gender. In both scenarios they are still not recognizing women’s humanity. Both are misogynistic.

All they did was swing the pendulum to opposite side. IMO they either get here because they don’t interact with women often or well enough, and/or because they consumed misogynistic content and internalized it.

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TopShelfSnipes · 2024-12-12T18:35:20+00:00

I agree with half the first paragraph, your second and third paragraphs...then literally nothing else.

"Women are wonderful" was never a mainstream fallacy, unless we are talking about kids internalizing messages from prudish, generic Moms without a countervailing narrative from their fathers.

American society teaches that people are individuals and very much downplays collectivist thinking until fairly recently when the Marxists who have been on the march since at least 2015 (in the most recent iteration of same) started pushing oppressor/oppressed narratives and prioritizing in-group identities to the detriment of society as a whole.

I would say that many redpillers (not all, cuz individualism) probably internalized narratives from their moms that "women are wonderful," women would fall in love with them for their personality, that looks are irrelevant to women compared to personality, and that her "special little boy" would totally bag a hot wife because of his "nice" subservient personality.

Through this lens, they then saw and interpreted society the way they wanted to see it. Rom-coms "proved" unserious manchild simps could steal the heart of a hottie from a confident guy - and they also proved the confident guy was "always" a jerk. Being unpopular with women in high school wasn't a red flag that his behavior was unattractive, it was just setting up his story arc to become a heartthrob in his 20s. When the story arc inevitably didn't materialize, they faced a choice...become better, or become bitter. Some men choose the first (not associated with any particular pill), others choose the second (blackpill, incel subset of redpill).

Of course women could be "evil" - anyone can. I don't think anyone ever said otherwise, not even the biggest whiteknights and "women are wonderful" types. This is just common sense. Disney movies are no different. However, the election examples are totally irrelevant. Most politicians are corrupt to some degree, but Hillary Clinton and Kamala Harris are two of the absolute worst that have ever been nominated, and probably the worst since Walter Mondale ran as a socialist-adjacent in 1984. Clinton sealed her fate when she literally called almost half the country "deplorable" and looked down on rural areas. Also, both her and Kamala Harris ran campaigns centered around backtracking from previous statements. Suddenly Clinton, who called Black people "superpredators" in the 90s, was pro-Black? Harris, who supported defunding police, who supported trans surgeries for inmates, and did nothing as "border czar" was suddenly the law and order candidate who was gonna stop illegal migration and "changed her mind" on the whole trans thing, but quietly? None of these are good examples of, nor meaningful towards explaining redpill ideology and the causes that lead people to it. They were just unpopular politicians who happened to be women. If they were running against anyone other than Trump, they would've lost even worse.

OTOH, I do believe that men who internalize what I'll call The Mommy Narrative described in the first part of my reply above, DO sometimes have an epiphany where they realize basic common sense shit like being attractive is actually attractive to the opposite sex, and that most women don't want to date a spineless pushover. This is more common sense than redpill, but if redpill is what "reveals" this truth to them, they come to adopt the ideology whole hog - including the incorrect parts of it, because it offers a lifestyle they've never had (that of the player or "Chad") that they deeply desire...even if they never actually get there.

Flash_4_Crab · 2024-12-13T00:07:31+00:00

The Women are Wonderful effect refers to the fact woman have a much much stronger in group bias then men. When controlled scientific tests are done Generally speaking about 70% of women show an in group bias towards women, 25% show no bias and about 5% show a bias towards men. On the flip side only about 15% of men show a bias towards men, about 70% show no bias and about 15% of men show a bias. T

The Woman are wonderful effect exist because women are biased in favor of other women.

Flightlessbirbz · 2024-12-13T03:58:50+00:00

I think it’s because men in these spaces, and to a lesser extent men in general, tend to have a hard time seeing women as individual human beings like themselves. People are more likely to display black and white thinking about those they see as “other.”

For example, if an alien species were discovered, one of the first questions many people would probably ask is “so are they good or bad?” rather than assuming they’re kinda a mixed bag like we are.

Upset_Culture_83 · 2024-12-18T17:48:20+00:00

Clinton won the popular vote and Bernie didn't stand a chance once the elections went down south and got to the black voting block. Something happened for Biden in 2020. Once ot went down south the black voting block voted traditional democrat. Hillary being the wife of Bill Clinton 3xtremly popular among blacks and Biden being Obama running mate.

meisterkraus · 2024-12-12T14:13:54+00:00

Let me save everyone some reading. Men if you have problems it is all your fault no matter the situation. Now we never need a new post for you.

Title	(American) Redpillers had the biggest Women Are Wonderful bias
Author	LillthOfBabylon
Upvotes	0
Comments	119
Date	December 12, 2024 12:51 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1hckf4j/american_redpillers_had_the_biggest_women_are/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/american-redpillers-had-the-biggest-women-are.1538295 https://theredarchive.com/post/1538295

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