Bad sex is not rape.

hardwarequestions · 2013-03-20T00:39:04+00:00

welcome to the men's rights movement.

Greyfeld · 2013-03-20T02:51:31+00:00

There's been an increasing pressure lately to label "any sex I didn't actually want/like" as rape. But only if you're a woman. And this can be decided after the fact, even if you verbally consented to the sex beforehand.

Feminist circles have decided on, and perpetuated, this idea that whether or not a woman has been raped is entirely dependent on how she feels. Whether consent was given or not is irrelevant; whether she willingly participated is irrelevant. If she feels like she was raped, then she was raped.

The problem is that this warped idea of what rape really is doesn't stop at the fringes of radical feminism. It's an idea that's gradually permeating our society, and it's an idea that many women (and some men) are latching onto with fervor.

DavidByron · 2013-03-20T00:00:15+00:00

Feminism says all men are rapists and that any (heterosexual) sex is rape unless the woman really likes it -- but she can change her mind about whether she liked it at a later point and call it rape.

In other words feminism is an anti-male hate movement. Unfortunately it's also the controlling influence in our society when it comes to gender issues.

Neurotikitty · 2013-03-20T03:37:26+00:00

Good point, but also: BDSM is not rape. BDSM is not misogyny. The writers of the scene don't seem to get that. The show seems to subtly imply that people engaged in "power exchange" because they have mental problems, which is not necessarily the case.

But I think the whole "rape" discussion is just marketing used to promote controversy to raise viewership of the show...

maverickxv · 2013-03-20T06:01:48+00:00

Happily I have an opposite story to tell about the ShoTime series Shameless. I just watched Season 3 Episode 3 (May I Trim Your Hedges?). One of the main focuses of the story is some of the characters learning that a convicted child molester is now living in the neighborhood after serving only 5 years. Thinking to themselves "how did this guy get off after only 5 years," they quickly round up a group of people with the intention of going over and beating up the "pervert." Turns out the rapist in question is actually a young, attractive, female teacher that had raped a student (hence, only 5 years). As expected, the group immediately calms down, and acts like its different simply because she is a woman.

However, this does not sit right with one of the main characters (Phillip), who spends the rest of the episode attempting to prove how simply because she is a woman, she is no more innocent than any man who commits the same crime. The episode ends with a female friend of Phillip giving a nice monologue on how "it doesn't matter what you have between your legs" rape is rape, and no one should get off easy for it.

Overall, the show does a great job of showing the lesser seen sides of situations like this. My favorite was early in season 1 where they show just how horrible a false rape accusation can be for a guy, even if it goes unreported to police (fearing for his life/and the hatred of neighbors). I definitely recommend a watch.

Morningwoodlumberco · 2013-03-20T00:50:38+00:00

Honestly, I hardly understand the feminist definition of rape anymore. From my experience it is as if most feminists just use it to put down what they disapprove of; isn't that what Feminism aims to stop?

OuiCrudites · 2013-03-20T00:19:47+00:00

Well then you'd better go tell Feminists your opinion right now because they are hell-bent on labeling any sexual contact "rape" if the woman decides at some point, even after the fact, that she didn't like it. Regardless of what she did at the time it happened.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2013-03-20T13:53:12+00:00

Technically, if he was drinking, she raped him.

That's the standard feminists have invented lately: any amount of alcohol means no consent.

She is a rapist that took advantage of someone who could not consent to sex (even though it may have appeared that he was).

Really they should have had a discussion on sober people taking advantage of drunk people for sex and why the woman in that show is a despicable rapist.

HalfysReddit · 2013-03-20T13:43:06+00:00

It's important to note that by definition, men have only been potential victims of rape since 2012. As late as 2011, rape was a crime that could only be committed against a woman (or rather, a person with a vagina).

You're not crazy, you just don't buy into the propaganda, and that's a good thing. Unfortunately though you can expect to be chastised from other women for challenging the status quo.

No means no, but you actually have to say no. As far as instances of being paralyzed with fear are concerned, IMO that all depends on the aggressiveness of the supposed rapist. If they legitimately threaten you to the point where you can't speak, it's rape. If you irrationally feel threatened by a nonviolent person, that's a personal problem, and it's horrifically selfish if you want to punish another person for your problem.

Notice that in that last section, I never used gender. Know why? Because rape isn't a crime that cares what gender the rapist or the victim is. It's not a gendered crime, and putting divides where they aren't necessary only serves to promote rape culture for the victims that you are choosing not to advocate for.

Apologies for the length of this post, but rape is FUCKED UP.

rightsbot · 2013-03-19T23:10:17+00:00

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whalebonner · 2013-03-19T23:48:19+00:00

Rape is terrible, people in general are worse. They are willing to manipulate the subject to have the ethical judgement on some actions be applied to other actions if it fits their agendas, regardless of the fallout from interspersing the various meanings. Yes, it should definitely stop. It does not, however, show any signs of stopping anytime soon in this matter or others.

SpawnQuixote · 2013-03-20T15:42:09+00:00

All feminists have left is rape. That's it, that is their hotbutton topic and they are wearing it the fuck out.

It is kind of funny and satisfying watching the current incarnation of feminism die.

robert32907 · 2013-03-20T05:49:11+00:00

It's not rape.

alphabetpal · 2013-03-20T14:33:42+00:00

Notice that when she dictated every term of the sex, it wasn't rape. When he got some say in it, it was - she agreed to it, but she didn't really want to (even though she didnt say so), so that made it rape. So, what if he didn't like being on top but agreed to it te first time? Doesn't that also make her a rapist?

barclown · 2013-03-20T03:48:05+00:00

I saw the scene, great show btw. Yeah that was not rape.

Abe_Vigoda · 2013-03-20T06:10:43+00:00

You guys aren't seeing the bigger picture. All these media outlets make a huge amount of money off 'new feminism' & liberal outrage.

Men are being scapegoated by these outlets that are pushing an unfairly negative and skewed perception because it pushes a partisan wedge that can be exploited by political opportunists.

Both sides of the media work together to screw us all over, and i'm not just talking about men, but women too.

enkidusfriend · 2013-03-20T12:49:45+00:00

Intentional or not, this is somewhat like the Talmudic strategy of "building a fence". The actual "line", if such a thing exists, between consenting sex and rape seems to be fairly fuzzy in some situations. If you're not quite sure which kinds of acts cross the line, you draw another line a fair distance away from the fuzzy one, and you give strict and clear definitions to help identify that line. This is where the concept of "enthusiastic vocal consent" comes from. If you have that, you're nowhere near the fuzzy line. I leave it to others to decide if this is a useful strategy or not.

nobody2000 · 2013-03-20T15:14:35+00:00

I enjoy the storytelling on the show, so I too watch (and honestly, it exposes pretty blatantly why extreme "girl power" is pretty flawed).

Did Adam's new girlfriend even tell him to stop? Wasn't she just more or less confused? After giving him consent, all he did was flip her over. He didn't strike her, bind her, or even really hurt her. And IIRC, she didn't make any more of a fuss over it other than the "that was weird, awkward, and unusual" face.

I seriously wonder if I'm going to ever be able to clear my mind while having sex if this is how people react to a scene like this.

SumYungGui · 2013-03-20T15:27:52+00:00

I agree with your sentiment. The fact of the matter is, the more that we distort the definition of rape to include all unpleasant sex--the more that it demeans legitimate rape victims of the horrendous crime that has occurred. For every false accuser saying that they were raped so their boyfriend doesn't think she's a slut for cheating hurts the integrity of all true victims. Furthermore, it demeans the value of the word itself, and makes it to where all rape cases are looked at with more skepticism than ever should have had to be present. We should, as a society, be able to accept that claims of rape should be taken seriously--and as individuals one should NEVER masquerade bad sex as being rape.

factorygrrrl · 2013-03-20T19:15:52+00:00

This is not in the last episode. In the last episode, he and the woman he made crawl on her knees are still together, again engage in consensual sex, and she makes her boundaries clear by telling him that she can fuck him without being his "little whore." He seems to think having sex means trying to humiliate your partner, but she makes it clear that she does not and will not roll like that.

You're also a little bit lying regarding the episode you are talking about. She is uncomfortable from start to finish, before she ever gets on all fours. He does not ask her to get on all fours - he tells her to do so - though it's pretty clear that she is not complying out of fear. It was a long, awkward, troubling scene to watch. The face she makes as she's being hammered by him is not "uncomfortable." It's disgusted and a little bit uncertain and frightened. As far as your search on various women-oriented site, the consensus has actually been "Adam was a jackass, Adam was mean and terrible, Adam didn't rape her."

When she said "I really didn't like that," she squeaks it out. She is not her normal confident self. I think you're wholly blowing it out of proportion that various pop culture sites were saying Adam raped her when they didn't. And I think that episode did an extremely good job of showing what bad sex can look like.

almightybob1 · 2013-03-20T22:12:16+00:00

There was actually a video posted up here recently from The Young Turks talking about this very scene, and why it wasn't rape.

EDIT: Thread, video

JanglyPangolin · 2013-03-20T13:27:36+00:00

Pay more attention to the dialogue they have, that is the part that the show was trying to drive home

GlassCoins · 2013-03-20T16:06:33+00:00

Wonderful post!

YggdrasilYggy · 2013-03-20T17:08:08+00:00

I was much more impressed when I saw that you are a female. I'm glad people recognize these sorts of things.

Unfortunately, I've known quite a few females that claimed rape just because they hooked up with some guy they regret hooking up with now, or because it was just lousy.

Are there instances where guys have claimed rape when the sex was bad? I, like most other men, would just claim them to be a "bad lay" for lack of better terms.

TalesAbound · 2013-03-20T21:23:09+00:00

Rape is any sexual or linguistic comment feminists don't like. Feminism is an anti-male hate ideology. The algebra here is simple ;)

Welcome to the Movement.

pksquared · 2013-03-21T20:02:39+00:00

I haven't seen the episode, but maybe the scene was trying to portray that the woman felt forced, or like she couldn't say no. Which would definitely put it in an awkward rape-y kind of light. Did you get that impression?

If not, then it seems like this scene is being blown out of proportion.

forbiddenone · 2013-08-23T15:03:14+00:00

Everything is rape, you silly bear.

ImBloodyAnnoyed · 2013-03-20T13:28:30+00:00

Am I crazy here?

Nah, Girls is actually a very well-written show and I enjoy watching it as well.

datbrodude · 2013-03-20T06:14:29+00:00

No, it's not rape, but I'd also say that surprise BDSM is not a good policy to go on. Some people are comfortable with BDSM, and some aren't. Just jumping into it like that with no previous discussion is bad.

Thinking about this is interesting. Did she consent? I don't watch the show, but from what I understand, their previous sexual encounters were not rough sex. Given that, I would say it's likely that she expects sex to be similar to how it was before. At the very least similar in that she wouldn't expect any boundaries to be breeched that weren't already breeched.

So, the question is 'How far past a boundary do you have to go for it to be rape?'. Is unannounced anal ok? Is choking ok? Hitting? Nipple clamps? There are people that are happy to participate in each of these things, but if you suddenly surprised your partner with all or some of them and they were too scared to speak up, would that be rape? Did they consent to these things?

Honestly curious what people here think about this.

EDIT: BDSM may be the wrong term for describing the situation in the show. I don't think that invalidates the second two paragraphs, which are more about established boundaries/comfort zones.

jack_gats · 2013-03-20T14:22:45+00:00

I've said it again but it deserves repeating: the only definition of rape that will work is "sex resisted to the best of a victim's ability". You can tinker at the definition of rape as long as you want, you will only create opportunities for abuse on the part of alleged victims.

VolumeZero · 2013-03-20T10:13:23+00:00

So wait, I don't watch this and not sure if I grasp it.

But didn't you just say that the first time they had sex, she was dominant and instructive?

So when he was drunk, and tried to be the dominant one, however badly or whatever, that's claims for rape? The fact they spoke about it after and talked about how it wasn't good and he acknowledged that, surely that's just something couples do in the bedroom? Try something new out, if it sucks you either switch it up or just don't do it again.

Super_delicious · 2013-03-19T23:26:10+00:00

Was she drunk?

2013-03-20T03:38:53+00:00

Why are we talking about a stupid show that feminists love to watch?

Bad sex is not rape.

Comments

1, I highly doubt a majority of these comments said the incident was rape. #2, It's a fictional show and who actually cares?

Title	Bad sex is not rape.
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	273
Comments	135
Date	March 19, 2013 11:08 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/1amjfg/bad-sex-is-not-rape/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/bad-sex-is-not-rape.1608573 https://theredarchive.com/post/1608573