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Wife needing advice

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November 13, 2015
9 upvotes

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Title Wife needing advice
Author
Upvotes 9
Comments 133
Date 13 November 2015 08:20 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit askMRP
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/207911
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/3spbff/wife_needing_advice/
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[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret14 points15 points  (28 children) | Copy

Guys, why yah all gotta be so hostile with OP?

She did this correct right down to the name of the post. If your not interested in talking to a "wife" asking a question then don't come on her thread.

We won't put up with hijacking threads if it becomes a problem but I thought the earlier hijacking was a hilarious and examplory exchange as some have discussed already.

So for the record: From the posting guidelines:

Finally.....our posting guidelines preclude pouncing and brutality against the downtrodden so yes, Red Pill women ARE permitted to participate and even give advice on /r/AskMRP! We are here to help the newly unplugging, man, woman, girls, and boys.

I am glad to hear OP is ordering Doyle's book.

Give us another update thread with a field report in a couple weeks.

[–]strategos_autokratorRed Beret5 points6 points  (8 children) | Copy

I disagree with you, I think you are in her frame.

I see hamster hamster hamster everywhere. She is clearly being bossy and feels entitled to it.

In the post she says:

I don't think I'm a harpy

But somewhere else she says

What, though, if I'm a better captain? A penis does not a captain make.

She has a wrong idea about her SMV, thinking she gets some priviledge because she thinks she was a 9.5 10 years ago. She blames the husband for the troubles, only referring to him vaguely as "a dick" with nothing concrete. She refuses to go to /r/RedPillWomen.

While she is here, we are engaging her hamster. Seriously, look at all she writes, almost all users just say reasonable things, and she goes into hamster of feeeelings, and we know we can't deal with that with logic or words. Only her husband can with frame.

Finally, if you read what she writes carefully, I suspect she is posting hoping her husband reads all this. What she writes makes so much more sense that way. This is just a major manipulative shit test, and we are encouraging it by following her frame.

If she was interested in self improving, she should be in RPW, not here. She knows it.

Here is what i think she is doing: she will keep being bossy. The husband will keep trying to get control. It will get nasty. If he fails at getting control, she will blame him and MRP for the bad relationship and will end it. If he succeeds, she will hamster away thinking she let him be captain, and all will be good. But right now, she is here in this sub gaining ammo to try her best to make him fail. I don't mind that, that is what makes for a convincing shit test. However, she is hamstering a lot, and dominating discussions, and that derails things here. Her stuff belongs in RPW.

http://theredpillroom.blogspot.ca/2012/08/the-male-social-matrix-back-to-sandbox.html

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

I disagree with you, I think you are in her frame.

Probably.

if you read what she writes carefully, I suspect she is posting hoping her husband reads all this. What she writes makes so much more sense that way. This is just a major manipulative shit test, and we are encouraging it by following her frame.

I had not considered this- a hidden meta-Shit test. Pretty devious. Also interesting that she is making the SAME mistakes in the blog world as she is in the real world (no accountability, blame shifting etc) so her husband reading all of her vomit is not going to make any difference. I do think she has had some honest answers from us and that it will help her (and her husband) immensely if she actually follows through.

If he fails at getting control, she will blame him and MRP for the bad relationship and will end it. If he succeeds, she will hamster away thinking she let him be captain, and all will be good.

Again, deep thinking bro. I always thought the only alternative was to accept your partner, accept your role and change, or to leave. Not being a woman I had not considered that another option is to blame somebody else- and then leave.

I do feel an affinity with this woman because I would really like to put together a total program of marital self improvement. Right now we have it down fairly well what men need to do and how to motivate them to do it but motivating women to change and improve is a huge piece of an incomplete puzzle.

Also, her question is not in a vacuum and her husband is actually on MRP so perhaps I feeeeeeeel some added responsibility to do right by her?

I feeeeel this thread she started was worthwhile. We have MRP locked up tight for women posting and that is one of the purposes of AskMRP.

I am still hoping she implements Doyle's methods and posts another thread in 2 weeks but if you want to suspend her posting until then I have no objection. You make a compelling and correct justification.

[–]strategos_autokratorRed Beret0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy

I do feel an affinity with this woman because I would really like to put together a total program of marital self improvement. Right now we have it down fairly well what men need to do and how to motivate them to do it but motivating women to change and improve is a huge piece of an incomplete puzzle.

I think this is worth pursuing and valuable. With that said, this woman might not be the best case-study. Remember, she posts in TBP and such, and even thinks she is the captain and all that.

her question is not in a vacuum and her husband is actually on MRP so perhaps I feeeeeeeel some added responsibility to do right by her?

But remember that in some mod mail or something (i forgot where) she was complaining she didn't want to "wear a nice dress and make cookies"... and the thing is that those things are very small and easy. if her marriage is in trouble because she refuses to do those things, she is the problem clearly.

I feeeeel this thread she started was worthwhile.

I think it started well, but then she revealed some of her colors. I do hope she got some good stuff to think of, and i hope she goes to RPW, they can really help her there. I told her in a PM if she spent time there for a bit, it would all be good. instead, she deleted her account. So i suspect her goal really wasn't to improve her marriage, just to use us for solipsism to then blame everyone else for her marriage.

I think she is a bit curious about us here, but her instinct is more to engage her hamster to fight us, because it isn't working with her husband, so she does it by proxy. Online it is harder to show frame, not to take the questions seriously, and just used Amused Mastery and such. So in a way, we might be even hurting her marriage.

[–]SepeanRed Beret3 points4 points  (18 children) | Copy

I think the problem is that many men here listens to what she says. This is standard pre-main event behavior: they're fucking a lot and she thinks he's an asshole. We've all been there.

In this phase, a wife isn't going to say he's a great guy. All the shit testing behavior isn't a rational deception, it is a reflection of how she feels. And that's what she will report.

I mean, look at what she does. They have lots of kinky sex. So stuff is working, she doesn't need any advice. Her husband got this.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

They were doing that stuff before from the sound of her previous posts.

[–]mechanizedmischief3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy

Except she's unhappy.

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Meh, she is unhappy because he is a bad captain. Wouldn't you be?

[–]SepeanRed Beret4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy

Plenty of sex and she even says she's happy about him lifting, doing better at work, taking responsibility at home.

She is not unhappy.

Her need to shit test is just going into overdrive because he has upped the alpha a lot in a short time. This is classic pre-main event behavior.

Don't listen to what she says, look at what she does.

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

I wonder if hubby thinks they have lots of kinky sex? If he's on MRP there is certainly no sanction to act like a dick when you are getting sex on demand. Methinks there might be another side to the story.

[–]SepeanRed Beret1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Who says he is acting like a dick? Lots of us got called assholes just for holding frame instead of being supplicant to her whims and moods.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

My wife calls me an asshole, smiles, and gives me a shot in the arm or grabs my ass.
 
A good response to a shit test is like the Ig Nobel prize - first it makes you laugh, then it makes you think. If his responses make her feel like shit instead of feeling sexy then he's doing it wrong.

[–]SepeanRed Beret0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

This guy is pre-main event though, the wife doesn't react as immediatedly positively to it at that time.

Pre-main event I got called asshole a lot and she got very angry; but later or the next day she'd be all sexy sweetness. The same hot/cold OP is describing, as well as many other men here.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Man, every time I read one of your posts I realize how easy I've had it.

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy

I like you Sepean. You have alot of good advice to proffer. However, I think you read this one wrong. 2-3 a week is not fucking alot. Shit, if I had 2-3 a week I would be upping my dread game and stepping up my day game on her. She doesn't like it, so yeah, there is that, but who cares? What person would? However, just from her view, he has failed many aspects of being the captain.

Hate to red knight on you, but damn son. 2-3 a week is considered kinky and alot? You got some work to do.

[–]SepeanRed Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

For pre-main event, it is fine. The guys that come on here and say "we're fucking 2-3 times per week and it isn't starfish anymore, but she calls me asshole", what do we tell them? We tell them "good job, keep on lifting and leading, look out for the upcoming main event."

[–]jacktenofheartsRed Beret10 points11 points  (132 children) | Copy

Look, you got a lot of comments saying you're probably a terrible wife and you should just stop crying about how you no longer have your sweet beta bucks with his unconditional love. But this in particular stood out to me from /u/stonepimpletilists:

At some point, if he gets to a point where he's happy with himself, he's going to resent OP, because you will be a reflection of his failures for so many years.

So let's dig into that, because I think this is pretty common. I'd call this "latent anger state." We're pretty good at identifying "acute anger state" in MRP, but too many of us think we've reached some sort of "acceptance," when all we really did was shove that resentment down long enough to not have it completely consuming our thoughts. We're not resentful of our wives, per se, but just the whole chain of events that got us here, and how many different choices we may have made if we understood these core Red Pill concepts earlier. But when I hear some guy write, "I'm not mad at my wife, I literally just don't give a shit about what she thinks"... I mean, come on. How the fuck is that not anger? It's not the active, rage-inducing, HULK-SMASH feeling we consider "anger." But it's still there, lurking, influencing our minds and actions and overall physical and mental state.


So, let's review.

Our SMVs have always been uneven - mine's higher than his

Both mid-30s, married 8 years

He's been staring at/flirting with other women in a very obvious way in front of me.


Look, I am like 80% sure that based on descriptors like these, if accurate, means your husband never fucked as many women as he wanted to in his life. That's where this is all coming from. But why is your husband so angry about this? Because at some point in his younger years, he somehow internalized that a life full of women desiring him wasn't in the cards, probably because most girls he was interested in said shit like: "you're a great guy, you're like the guy ever girl wants to marry, but I'm just not ready for that yet."

So this is how he thought this all worked. He was "marriage material," so "playing the field" was for guys who spent way too much time putting gel in their hair. He probably had a girlfriend for two years in college that he never actually had sex with, and then another girlfriend after college with someone he used to refer to as "his crazy ex," and then he met you right around the time you were looking for "marriage material." So you met your husband, who probably was super eager and happy just to be dating you, and he was kind and had a good sense of humor and was even sort of dopey-cute, so you thought: "yeah, OK, good enough."

He thought he was content with this. A lot of guys are. When your husband would hear "you're marriage material," he'd be told to take shit like that as a compliment. Simply admitting, "I am disappointed that I have so few sexual relationships with women. I don't know why I'm disappointed, I just am, and think I wouldn't be disappointed" would get him shamed. He'd be called "shallow" and be told to "just wait for the right girl" and "you'll meet someone who appreciates you for who you are."

Nobody told him: "Dude, no, being labeled shit like 'marriage material' is BAD. You want to be FUCKABLE material. Then of the girls you're fucking, if one of them adds enough value to your life, you can marry her. Don't you want to fuck more girls anyway? You're a dude. It's OK to want that. It's not something to be ashamed about. It's only shameful if you whine about it and don't do anything about it."


If this is at all accurate -- and I've been known to make some pretty good insinuations on MRP, but I always concede I could be dead wrong -- you can skip the next few thousand words I'm probably going to write, and fix everything in your marriage with this way:

Tell him you're not getting what you want out of the marriage anymore, so you want a divorce. It's that simple. He can move on so he can try and date the women he feels he never had enough sex with, and you can start finding a guy who won't treat you like shit out of some misguided sense of anger at your entire gender. Jumping right to divorce probably sounds extreme, but of course it is. Just like someone being told they have a terminal illness and immediately driving off a bridge on the way home because they're thinking, well, I'm going to die anyway, why not skip to the end and save myself and everyone else a bunch of time?

This may sound really discouraging, and you may be wondering why I'm so convinced this will solve things, probably because of some desperate reasoning that if I explain why, you'll find some nuance and come up with an approach that doesn't require talking to a divorce lawyer. So sure, I'll humor you.


The guys here who swallow the Red Pill without too much lingering anger, fucked enough women in their past to realize they were, in fact, an attractive person. Attractive enough so that a cute girl who hung out with them a few times would be willing to have sex with them. When you realize that level of self-actualization, the actual fucking isn't such a big deal anymore. "Getting a lot of pussy" seemed/seems like an impossible achievement to your husband, which is why he's so bitter about things. Had he been given different information, he could have probably fucked enough women before he even met you that he'd realize "got a lot of pussy" is sort of only a middling achievement in life. I mean, yeah, it's not nothing, but I put it up with something like... winning some sports tournament in high school. It matters, it was a great experience, but is that really going to be your peak accomplishment in life? Don't you have other shit you want to do before you die?

So if you become a high enough achieving male, you end up wanting to achieve more than "get a lot of pussy," in your life, and being married can add more value to your life than otherwise.

I tell people, "sex is like water to men," and they snort. Even other men. I bet a lot of men reading this right now literally snorted. Water is second only "breathing oxygen" in terms of fundamental human needs. You will literally die without water. Do men die without sex? Do we put the pussy on that much of a pedestal? Come on, jackten, how the fuck could you, of all people, say that?

But think about it the other way. Think about a life where all you drink is water. If you've spent your entire life in the desert and stumble into an oasis, that water will be goddamn fucking amazing. Every cool drop will taste like ambrosia your parched thirst glands. You'll drink until you're stuffed, piss it out, and drink some more.

Until you get hungry.

That's my point. It's miserable living a life without water. But it's not really that great living a life where you drink only water.

Now, I don't make this point too often on MRP. Why? Because I have the 'luxury,' if you want to call it that, of stumbling into that oasis. I got divorced in my early 30s with minimal consequences (ie. no divorce rape), and I spent the next few years fucking a lot of women. It was great, until it got sort of boring, or at least boring enough that I wanted to start doing other things. Having a mediocre job and fucking a lot of women was cool, but I still had a mediocre job. But that's easy for me to say. You can't wander around in a desert, find an oasis, and tell every other guy: 'Look guys, it's just water. The goal is to get out of the desert, not just find an oasis. Do you really need water that bad?'

If you're a high achieving male, sex in a mutually monogamous marriage with a wife that also adds a net value to your life in other ways, is usually enough water. But your husband doesn't know that. He's just pissed he never got to dunk his head in a cool refreshing river and drink all the water he ever wanted to. And few sips you offer him 2-3 a week just can't compare to that experience.

[–]jacktenofheartsRed Beret7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy

So, if we concede all that is true, then why is your husband acting like such a dick? Should he be disappointed? Frustrated? Yeah OK, sure. You may be charitable enough to stipulate that, but why does he have to take it out on you? You never gave him that advice! Aren't you supposed to be mostly-approved MRP wife material? You say you're attractive, you have sex frequently, you contribute to your household. So what the fuck is his problem?

Because here's another thing nobody told your husband: the traits that make you an attractive person are, for whatever reason, completely orthogonal to being a 'good' person. There's no overlap. I've made this point before, so I'm gonna go ahead and quote myself from another comment:

But here's the hardest truth that may lead to you being especially angry. It's this truth: the characteristics we generally associate with personal virtue -- kindness, honestly, loyalty, sacrifice, etc -- are basically orthogonal to anything that has to do with attraction. The main TRP subreddit has endless debates about whether being "alpha" means being a selfish dick, and there's always some people who cite some man of very powerful status they know, who is also a kind and respectful individual. That's because "kind and respectful" is literally irrelevant. That person would be a powerful man even if they were abrasive and offensive. He did not become powerful because he was kind and respectful.

Being "marriage material" does not have to be diametrically opposed to being "fuckable material." It's just orthogonal. Or perhaps "loosely correlated" is a better term. You can be a huge raging fucking dick and still be an sexually attractive man. You can also be a kind and generous person and also be just as sexually attractive. The reason why beta bucks losers are also the kind of person who is labeled "kind and generous" is because they were terrible in discerning who should deserve their kindness and generosity. Women are taught from a young age to be discerning with their sexuality, but nobody teaches young men to be discerning with their attention. Being kind and generous to other kind and generous people -- both male and female -- can lead to a virtuous cycle and a great relationship. Being kind and generous to a girl you have an unrequited romance with is a fucking waste of time. Thankfully the romantic comedy is a dying genre in Hollywood, so I don't have to fight against too much pop culture brainwashing. My son doesn't know who the fuck Lloyd Dobler is, and it's a damn good thing.

Your husband does know who Lloyd Dobler was, and that's the problem, isn't it? Being led to believe that what women loved was the enduring sacrifice of standing in sprinklers holding a boombox, when they really just wanted a hot guy who was fun and made them feel good? The "latent anger" I described in the beginning, this is what it comes down to:

Why did nobody tell me how this shit actually worked?

Extend that thought a little further, and it becomes:

Why did everyone tell me the exact OPPOSITE of how shit actually worked?

But it's not actually the exact opposite. It's just unrelated. Your husband didn't have to start acting like a dick, he just needed to stop holding up stereos. But until he realizes that, you can probably expect more of the same shitty behavior.


So let's go allllll the way back to my proposed solution at the beginning of all this, which was:

Tell him you're not getting what you want out of the marriage anymore, so you want a divorce.

We encourage men to focus on adding value to their lives because they've likely been neglecting that for so long. Like you said yourself:

On the positive side, he is going to the gym and getting healthier. He's also taking more responsibility in our family and doing better at work. He's playing soccer and going out with his guy friends more, and I'm happy about this stuff!

But the only reason to stay married is if your spouse is adding more value to your life than if you were separated. That's it. It's that simple. And what other value does he bring to your life? His job, his paycheck? Yeah, but you'll probably get a big chunk of that in divorce anyway. He's a good father to your kids? He'll still be a good father as a divorced dad. If he's truly a net negative to your life, all you need is to tell him. Men communicate overtly, right?

He should be able to do things in his life that are a net positive for himself without being a net negative for you, and vice versa. Good marriages are mostly just two people having enough in common so that the net positives in their life are also, coincidentally, net positives in their spouse's life. It's a virtuous cycle of two people doing the best things for themselves that also happen to be the best thing for their partners. It's not "work." It just is.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Amazing post. Seriously.

[–]sexyshoulderdevil75% Liquid Sarcasm0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you, Jack10.

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

As usual a great post. Extremely wordy, as usual. If I could give you a plaque, I would.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Damn... Nice expansion

[–]FearDearg2015Mod / Red Beret6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy

So, guys, why is he doing this and how should I respond?

If he's anything like every other dude on here, he reached a point where he realised that the reason he was so unhappy with the marriage, or the amount of sex in the marriage, was that he was not wearing the trousers in the relationship and that he was not prioritising his own happiness. He likely had you on a pedestal for years, and the result was that you ended up seeing him as a combination of dependant and provider. AKA a beta bux. He likely wasn't feeling any spontaneous attraction from you, and was starting to feel like your marital bedroom was dead. When he found TRP, he realised that none of this was your fault, and that by his supplication to you, he was making himself less sexually desirable.

If he's doing it properly, he should be creating a masculine body, a masculine mindset, and learning to leave some space between you for a relationship to exist. Your feelings and emotions are yours to deal with. In the past, he likely allowed his entire consciousness get overridden by how you felt, or how he thought you might feel about something he wanted to do, or not do. He was likely living his life based on a standard he believed was expected of him,rather than by a standard he set for himself.

The advice he would have received would have been to stop worrying so much about what you felt about him, and to focus instead in becoming the man he wanted to be. He would have realised that this may lead to the end of the marriage (if you could not accept the real him), and he would have had to come to terms with that. He likely views the marriage as a promise he made, and intends to keep. He likely views you as someone who could potentially respect his leadership of your family, and someone who he would be happy to spend the rest of his life with, as long as you were happy to follow his lead, or make your opinions known to him in a respectful way so that you could reach a workable compromise.

With respect to how you should respond, I'll tell you the same thing we tell dudes who victim puke : stop acting like a victim, stop seeing yourself as "his victim", take responsibility for your own happiness (and in your case, femininity), and decide for yourself what kind of outcome you would prefer. Nothing is off the table, as a workable compromise, except perhaps making him get back into his cage and be a whiney beta bitch whose balls he gave to you for safekeeping.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

Fuck /thread man.

Only thing I'd add. At some point, if he gets to a point where he's happy with himself, he's going to resent OP, because you will be a reflection of his failures for so many years. He'll get over it eventually, so long as you're making efforts on your part. I assume you haven't had a nuclear freak out moment because of your insecurity about the relationship yet? Once you have had it (and it'll be emotional Hulk mode for you) and he's sees hope for the two of you, he'll give you his vision, and all will be clear.

Until then, best bet would be to try to objectively look at the last decade, I'll bet you haven't honestly been able to see his happiness as anything other than a reflection of your own. Empathy isn't easy.

Have a few drinks one day, and just talk like humans (and got out of your own head) you could listen for the part where his eyes sparkle, and he talks about something he well and truly enjoys in life. the kind of think that actually gets him up in the morning. Not his kids, or his wife (because they probably aren't, not yet anyways) but there's something that he wants out of life.

Thats if he trusts you enough to mention it.

For now, he's at that age. read the article (illimitable man I beleive, possibly CG) about the mid life crisis fallacy. I'll bet he's finally realizing he was put on this earth for more than everyone elses happiness.

[–]6TimesDown7TimesUp-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

THIS

[–]ArchwingerRed Beret8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy

First off, there's not a lot of good advice for women here. The Red Pill is about men. Male success, male strategies to improve their sex lives and obtain happiness. Male power. Men taking power in their marriages (or in some cases taking power back). There's a consequence to this: when a man has all or most of the power in his marriage, that means his wife has none of the power or very little.

A "red pill" husband is going to do what he wants, what he thinks is best for him and for the family, he's only going to cater very slightly to how you feel or what you think, and he's not going to be affected by your disapproval, your outbursts, or even by sex -- withholding it or giving it. He's going to do what he wants, and you take a back seat to that. A support role. You bring issues to his attention, and he places them on his list or ignores them as he sees fit. You no longer have any power. You follow his leadership, or you get the hell out if he's shitty leader or you can't learn to deal with him.

Second, you sound like you're really fixating on the negative. If you want to save your marriage, and you think you can deal with your husband as leader of the family, then submit to your husband. Your sex life is good, you guys are financially okay. You have two kids together. You don't fight too much, I guess. Your household seems mostly together, and he's had a hand in doing that. It's not like you built that yourself while he hindered you with his bumbling and assholery. He's given at least a portion of that to you and continues to make this happen for you every day.

Third thing, and this is really speculation on my part. Your husband found a new set of tools on the internet and isn't very well calibrated on when to use which tools and to what end. He's working out, getting positive responses from other women, and flirting with other women while blowing off your disagreement seems to be working for him. He has a good sex life, and he feels powerful now that he's unaffected by your disagreement. I don't think he knows what, specifically, is working, so he's just sort of shotgunning your marriage with shit he read on the internet. He's the one who needs our advice, not you.

Fourth, you're in a funny position. You know that he's reading shit on the internet and "doing" it to you. That probably makes him feel a little silly and insecure, almost like the mere fact that you know is a challenge to him that he'd better stop it. So he doubles down to prove you have no power over him.

He really needs to get himself calibrated and figure out what he's so angry or unhappy about with his marriage, then take positive steps to fix that. Right now, he's got the tools to lead, but it sounds like he might not be clear where he wants to go as a family or what he wants to build yet. Of course, this is going solely on your 25-ish lines of text on the internet. If he were to post about the same thing, his story might look different.

[–]itstartstoday1231 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Since your not my wife I'll tell you what I would tell my wife if she wasn't "a crier".

I understand you have emotions and that's one of the things that makes me love you but I'm not responsible to walk around all day thinking about how you feel. I have better things to do than worry about whether your gonna be mad at me when I get home from work because I didn't text, call or shoot you a voicemail with some lovey dovey shit. I say that stuff when your hair is a mess and your sweaty after a good pounding on the side of a trail during a hike. Nothing more romantic than messy hair and sweaty bodies locker together.

Your emotions are your responsibility, I don't experience them in the same way so when you insist that I understand its like asking me to interpret the phases of the moon and how that affects the direction that's monkeys fling their crap. I can't help you with that toots. I'll support, talk and empathize with you but your gonna have to find some girlfriends to understand, it's not my job.

You're amazing but you can't seem to understand that you are not the person I married. You got comfortable, complacent and took me for granted.

Now, I'm taking care of me cause your not my problem. I'm gonna go pursue my life, desires, dreams and if you want to come along then Great. If not its your choice. I want this to work but it has to work on my terms cause I let myself slip, became what I thought you wanted and would rather be single then unhappy. It's not you its me. I'm the problem and once I'm not the problem anymore, if you continue to hold onto this dynamic we co-created, ill leave cause I'm trying to lead us out of it and not just manipulate it for more sex.

You take care of yourself and figure it out but when I act like I'm not interested in being shit upon.... That's because I respect myself enough to not let that happen anymore. I know I'm still a little rough around the edges but give it some time and your anxiety will fade.... Hopefully.

You work on being happy, healthy and sexy and I'll do the same, maybe we can be that together with each other.

Tldr: it's not you it him. Give it some time toots. A blowing wind takes time to smooth out rough edges. In the meantime, Take care of you and realize hes just trying to be happy, he is just in the discovery phase of whether that's gonna be with you.

Edit:you may want to hit redpillwomen. That's where you can find SOME women that may understand... You know...women things. Thanks for posting.

[–]Sapphire_Jizz3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

This is going to be long, but I think it can help. Take my words as you see fit, I am not in a LTR or marriage.

You begin with: "something is definitely wrong because we're both unhappy." Solipsism. You're projecting your own feelings on to him. Is he unhappy? Have you asked him, or has he told you as much? He might be actually finding some happiness on his own for the first time in years as he works to be the man he wants to be. Not only that, you're speaking in "we" terms here and relinquishing all agency. You must realize the pattern of thinking you've established. Others on MRP have called you out on this perpetual victim mentality. "Something (such a nebulous word) is definitely (so certain in your perception of reality!) wrong" – whatever is wrong, you're sure it's something totally outside of you! Right guys? Hello?

You complain that, "He won't tell me what he expects!" What reason might he have to not tell you things? He's likely been hurt in the past when communicating honestly and overtly with you (as our fem-centric society dictates), and you probably didn't even realize you were hurting him at all when disregarding whatever issues he had in whichever way you did (female solipsism FTW). Well, you're now approaching him in a direct, overt way, and you're confused when he won't give you anything. "I'm focusing on myself," he states. Well, duh, he has been conditioned over the course of your relationship that approaching you with issues in a direct and logical way does absolutely fuck-all. Now that he's aware of this fact, he's taking action instead. He has internalized this tenet of TRP: no one is unconditionally on his team (especially not his wife!) and he can only rely on himself for happiness and fulfillment.

The victim, no-fault, no-agency pattern continues: "I've always made an effort not to nag," you say. What does this actually mean? Do you nag him or not? Do you trust him or not? Is he capable of leading or not? This, as well as the the entire first paragraph of you 'explaining your history' is actually a thinly veiled disclaimer that states "Hey guys, tee-hee, look at all the things I've done to be such a good wife! I just can't understand why my husband would be disregarding my feelz by using these dickish MRP tactics!!! Don't say it's my fault, cuz we have sex 2-3x a week and I've totally always tried not to nag him!!1" You're still in the frame of trying to manage him because it can't be you. That is your problem. He's finally busy building his own frame and his own happiness independent of you because he realizes that he can't be happy any other way, and you're at a loss... it can't be your fault... and so all that ends up happening is you prod, stir, test his developing frame because... because? I don't know. You want your manservant back? You have nothing better to do? I can't answer this question, maybe you can.

In your eyes, he's being a dick and upping the dreaded dread. It hurts. You don't like that. You want him to be concerned with your happiness. Well, newsflash: he's not responsible for your happiness. Only you are. It's an utterly painful lesson, but it's 100% true. Seems like he's internalized this, and is now working on it himself. Clearly you haven't. Also, you fail to consider how you've maybe been hurting him in various ways over the course of years. If he's been repeatedly hurt, why does he owe you anything in the 'niceness' department? That isn't fair.

You say these changes are "out of character [for him]." Which character are you referring to here? How he 'acted' for probably the majority of your relationship before he swallowed the pill? A guy who was likely too beta, who took your words too seriously and allowed you to dictate the tone of the relationship? Was that really, truly him? Whoever that guy was, he wasn't happy, despite whatever sex you were giving him, and how little you thought you nagged him. So, he is taking it upon himself – no one else – to find some satisfaction in this life. He's in the process of discovering who he really is. You need to step the fuck out of the way and let him become a better person, but you're not: "We have had a lot of fights lately, often because of this (his) behavior." Yep! Definitely his fault! You go grill! Oh, but wait: "...and I admit I get emotional and less than rational when I'm really angry (I'm a crier)." Translated from womanese: "I listen to my feelz and pick fights with him, then when he engages I'm overly emotional and impossible to deal with. Cue the waterworks!" Sounds productive. No wonder he doesn't want to engage you when you prod him about his 'changes' or ask what he wants – it literally accomplishes nothing. In fact, it's a fucking emotional mine-field.

So, what about you? What are you supposed to do? You're unhappy. Can you fix that? Hint: it doesn't take your husband changing his supposed 'dickish' behavior to accomplish this. You're a female. You want to be lead by a strong, masculine man. I get it. So, give him some space to become a true man, a true version of himself. In the mean time, work on your own issues instead of riling shit-up over his developing frame. You should have better things to do than that, right? Sadly, most western women don't, because they never had to. Be valuable and happy for yourself and your children. As his form develops, he may realize that he doesn't want to be with you. Or you with him. Okay, no big deal – because you've learned how to find fulfillment within yourself. You're prepared for this. Just try not to divorce rape him too hard.

edit: clarity and flow

[–]FearDearg2015Mod / Red Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Nice job

[–]Glennus6261 point2 points  (12 children) | Copy

The funny thing about female posters on RP subreddits is that there's the common thread that they fundamentally don't agree with many main points of our theory. So, they want an inside track on something they don't believe works...

They'll say 75% of the right things like "i'm not awalt, i don't like to nag", then they'll proceed to tell us how they've been nagging their man about following redpill principles.

OP, he's doing this because he wants to be the captain of the ship, not the co-captain. You can be his first mate, but you're pushing too hard to be an equal in all things, when biology dictates that men and women simply aren't equal in all things (this is partly where the term "red pill" comes from -- the fact that some truths are very difficult to swallow in the society we live in today).

Feel free to test your husband's resolve, and keep him on his toes. Keep his belly full and his balls empty as you have been doing. Notice how your hamster wheel is going full tilt as his behavior is FORCING you to seek out advice on how to cope? That simply means our theory is working in practice. Why fight your husband's leadership? You've been the goose that laid the golden egg for too long, and now he's getting his second wind. This is GOOD for your family.

Guess what, the fact that you told thousands of men on the internet that you're SMV has been and is still slightly higher than your husband's means that he's still got a slight ways to go, and you deserve to work for his commitment. You're naturally feeling the vacuum of power being created now that he's catching up to you and withdrawing the one thing a woman needs a man for above all other things: his commitment.

Physically speaking, if he didn't leave the dread on, you would eventually have a dead bedroom as the realization that your smv is higher than his, plus the fact that he wasn't a leader and you've already got kids and a marriage out of him means you don't have to work for his continued commitment.

As for his teasing, since you didn't give an example I'm betting it isn't really all that bad to begin with, and you're so overwhelmed that you are "hitting your smv wall" in your 30's that any disagreement or him showing his spine on any issue has got you flustered.

Readjust your own attitude, and you may just survive his metamorphosis.

[–]SepeanRed Beret1 point2 points  (13 children) | Copy

You think he's an asshole, he's getting kinky sex regularly. Sounds like he's doing good, next up is the main event. Is this you gathering ammo for that, so you can hit him with "you're so fake and all your internet buddies know it" or some shit?

Well, hit him with it, girl. Give him the chance to prove just how strong his frame really is. It'll make you both much happier.

If you're reading this mr. Vampiresquid: don't listen to what she says, look at what she does. Lift and lead, bro.

[–]alphabeta49Red Beret0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy

Love it.

[–]itstartstoday1230 points1 point  (11 children) | Copy

Check out whinemoreplease exchange with this chick yesterday.

[–]alphabeta49Red Beret-2 points-1 points  (9 children) | Copy

HOLY FUCKING SHIT. What a thread. She. Just. Doesn't. Stop. Talking.

I hope OP gets banned soon. WAY too much drama for my likes. This is the captain's lounge, and this shrew has gotten enough of us out of our seats.

[–]itstartstoday123-3 points-2 points  (7 children) | Copy

No, I hope bpp or wmp write a sweet IRL example post on solipsism. This chick is a goldmine. Someday we'll figure out who her husband is and we can all yell a collective NEXT!!!!!

[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

No, I think she will submit to her husband and learn to exert her power in a different and much more satisfying way to her and him. I think she will learn to be grateful and make a decision to be happy and that about 30 minutes after she starts treating her husband with some respect he will start treating her with more kindness. Bro, if your out there, and I know you are, comfort tests are easy to pass with this sexually compliant unicorn of yours. What could be the problem?

That post jumped out at me screaming solopsism. I literally yelled Holy Shit and choked on my chips when I saw it. When we say AWALT, we mean it. My wife is pretty good at catching herself but it is still obvious. It really is a fundamental characteristic of women.

I give points for handling it fairly well, if predictably. "As a woman" it is not likely anybody has ever challenged her like brother /u/whinemoreplease. That she hasn't deleted her account gives her bigger balls than some of these manginas who post and run.

[–]alphabeta49Red Beret-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

Haha! Easy to picture that. I suppose I've enjoyed the liveliness around here.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy

There's been worse.

Last I remember, high earner sleeping up during business trips, and used her money to emasculate her stay at home babysitter, would brag about how much of a pussy he was.

That woman was brutal

[–]itstartstoday123-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy

Lets get what we can out of it.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Oh this turd mine keeps paying dividends.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy

She'll come around, she isn't stupid. So long as she isn't shit tier, he'll drag her to happiness kicking and screaming

[–]itstartstoday123-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

It looks like she is pulling herself to be honest. A little thread of wariness is holding her back from investing the time in going submissive. She knows he wants that, blow jobs on demand, and a sweet feminine wife that dresses sexy and trades her sex card often and can handle the responsibility of first officer with a big fat smile. He obviously is ready to trade his commitment card but will not without his standards being met.

Her post here is just to see that we are not all freaks that just want to lock our wives in the basement tied to a chair..... At least not for more than a few hours while some good screaming happens.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Pft, been there, done that.

[–]sexyshoulderdevil75% Liquid Sarcasm1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

So a thorn in his paw brought him down this rabbit hole. You don't know what makes up that thorn.

You said you attempted OVERT communication with him and asked him what is the issue. But are you sure you asked overtly? Or do you just think you did? If you talked to him about all this in a fit of tears, he likely decided to just shut up and stick to the party lines.

If you were both calm when you asked, then there is two possibilities why he won't answer:

  1. His frame and/or SMV isn't to the point where he is comfortable communicating overtly. He's still in Shut The Fuck Up Mode. If he says anything, he will just be negotiating. Negotiations are useless. So he's biding his time and working on himself. Since you now know about Red Pill, he could be doubling down to get his frame or SMV higher even faster than before. Hence, he appears to be stepping up dread from your perspective. If so, you'll just have to wait.

  2. Or something along the way in your marriage has him not trusting you or caring enough to explain. You likely already know the answer if that's the case.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Our SMVs have always been uneven - mine's higher than his

Your perception and his perception of relative SMV will not match. How you will respond to his behavior is influenced by your perception, and his expectations will be influenced by his perception.
 

since we have always got it on pretty frequently (2-3x week, sometimes every day)

To him that may not be enough. How often do you refuse or make excuses (legitimate or not)?
 

Non-vanilla sex on the regular

Vague. Is there stuff that he has wanted or asked for that you two are not doing?
 

makes jokes or just walks away when I disagree with him on something (even tiny stuff) as if my opinion is stupid

See /u/Archwinger's post. Insecurity is a big issue for many of the guys here. Your knowledge of the Red Pill makes this worse.
 

Teasing me in a very unfunny, hurtful way
I have also calmly asked him directly what he wants/needs from me, and I get vague responses

After a year he still can't state his expectations? If it was in the context of a calm discussion and he's still at the STFU stage after a year, then his implementation of MRP sucks.
We discussed this before. It sounds like he has poor social skills and needs to learn how to interact in an assertive way from scratch. Spending time with other guys is good, but are his friends and soccer buddies omegas? He needs good male role models with good social skills.
 

I get emotional and less than rational when I'm really angry (I'm a crier)

So stay rational. Develop the same sense of outcome independence that we would advocate for him. Consider counseling for yourself. The past 7 years may have been the facade, and the person you see before you may be the man underneath. You may not like him. Divorce isn't the end of the world. If it's a shitty relationship, it may be better for both of you. Seriously consider your options and think clearly about how each scenario may play out. If you are seriously, and I mean seriously contemplating divorce, then have a conversation with a lawyer.
 
Lastly, I'll echo what /u/FearDearg2015 said - stop focusing on him. Get out of the victim mindset. Forget MRP. Be the best version of yourself that you can be. That's what he's trying to do. If the two of you are complementary when all is said and done, then you will probably stay together. If not, then you will have developed the skills to have a better relationship with the next guy.

[–]DrXaos1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

| I would be willing to change, if I knew what to do.

You already do. It's very simple.

| We have had a lot of fights lately, often because of this behavior,

Not because of his behavior.

The fight didn't start because of his behavior; he wasn't fighting. It started because of your decision to respond a certain way to him instead of a different way.

|and I admit I get emotional and less than rational when I'm really angry (I'm a crier)

There you go. You've answered your question already: don't do what you're doing.

He makes a joke? You make a better joke back and go about your day actually not butt-hurt and then have a nice night with him.

If you really feel a need to talk with him about it, tell him "hon, I want the funny Han Solo kind of cocky, not the surly kind of cocky."

[–]alphabeta49Red Beret1 point2 points  (10 children) | Copy

Meta rant:

He knows I know that he's "doing" MRP

This is why I cringe when guys say their wives know about MRP. You sound like a typical modern woman, struggling to keep the pants by being over-analytical fixer. Trying to "let him lead." Your knowledge of the game is only going to muddy the waters as you try to guess what move he's trying to execute. It steals the very magic of having a man who just gets ittm. In trying to understand his strategy, you're ruining the game.

And on top of all that, you and him don't even agree on "a lot of what it says about women and what motivates [them]." Some couples with mutual knowledge make it work because they both see the logic in it (see u/thegreasypole and u/thegreasyhole). Its a fun game because they're both playing by the same rules and assumptions. No wonder you're butting heads, if one of you thinks the ace is 11 points and the other thinks its 1.

My advice: stop reading MRP.


Also:

He has been turning on the dread, from what I can tell

How the fuck do you figure that? Maybe he's just always been a bit more of a natural flirt than he was comfortable admitting previously. Maybe he just doesn't care what you think as much anymore. See /u/archwinger 's comment, its gold.

Understand what he's actually trying to become: a man who decides for himself how much he will be influenced by ANYTHING. Can you handle such a man? You might feel like you're losing the sweet, affectionate, cuddle buddy you once had, but the beauty of The Red Pill praexology is that the woman can then completely trust that her man is still with her because he WANTS to be. No marriage license, no commitment, no vows, stand in the way of what he wants to do. Fortunately, he has made it clear that he wants to do you for the rest of his life. Respect his effort, stay out of his business, and enjoy the ride as he figures this shit out.

[–]TheGreasyPoleRed Beret1 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy

I'm staying well out of this one. Shit. She needs girls. We need RPWs ITT.

And let's face it. If he's on MRP he's gonna be reading this, so he better work out what the fuck he's going to do pretty quick. Fucking hell dude, pull your finger out.

On the plus side, seems like they are getting on OK. This is recoverable. Its up to him to do it though. It would seem that they're going to have to have a chat. She's unplugged now. He's got an unplugged wife whether he likes it or not.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

We don't need her Lol

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy

She doesn't like them. Calls them clicking hens and harpies.

Typical response to girls in the locker room

[–]TheGreasyPoleRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Well, yes it gives me and my wife a little of the same vibe. RPW doesn't quite gel into our thing as a complete system, although parts of it fit quite neatly.

His game is going to have to change now. The easy tips and tricks will quickly become impossible to use, they're clearly visible when she knows RP. Our game has had to develop into what I call "meta-game" now, due to this.... A kind of knowing conscious use of game where a lot of the fun comes from knowing it's going on, and ribbing/teasing each other about it. "Go make me a sammich woman! ~exaggerated for the gag~".... "Aren't you supposed to neg me first?"..... "Shit, I'm slipping. Beta throw a bum slap in there too. ~slap~"..... That kinda thing.

They're going to have to find their own way. I and others show it can be done, successfully, and lead to a very happy state with both unplugged.... But everyone I know who has done it has done it their own idiosyncratic way.

I wish them the best of luck in finding theirs.

[–]alphabeta49Red Beret-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Wait and see is the game now.

[–]dandar46000 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

These threads always start off quite innocent, but then you hear that there was cheating or sexual promiscuity in the past etc. A bombshell that if op disclosed initially might have shed some light on things.

[–]plein_old0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

If a man is being hurtful, and won't tell you what he wants, then he's not being a good husband. Maybe he's in a learning process.

There's another sub called "askMRP" which might give you better feedback.

As a spouse, you just have to love your husband. That doesn't mean being a pushover, or being quiet and peaceful all the time. It just means making an effort. Getting advice from happily married women might actually be useful.

For me, part of what makes a good relationship is loving the other person without feeling that you "own" one another. Right? So if he's acting differently, maybe he's freshening things up in the relationship. Breaking up stale old patterns a bit.

Are you sure he's being hurtful? By "hurtful" do you mean "I can't control his every move any more" or do you mean he's being sadistic, or what?

EDIT: to correct grammar

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

There's another sub called "askMRP"

This is askmrp. No drunken redditing!

[–]plein_old1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

lol. whoops! I combined all the red pill subs into one "multi" thing.

[–]cholomiteMod / BP Downvote Magnet0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Fuck him like his SMV is higher than yours.

[–]itstartstoday1230 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy

Stop posting until you read the book that /u/bluepillprofessor recommends. And start lifting.

You responsible for your shit. Your husbands a dick, it's your fault. All your husbands bad behaviour is on you. Maybe he doesn't want to be nice to you. Maybe your a shit testing harpy who thinks that everything your husband does is his fault. Check your own attitude before you call him a dick. Maybe he just stopped putting up with your shit. If you don't want to fuck him he's a bad husband. If he doesn't want to commit to you or cuddle then make sure your not being a ball busting harpy.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy

start lifting.

 
I can't believe you're the only one who suggested this. I've gotten every one of my LTRs into the gym and have never regretted it. It's amazing how their perspectives change when they quit the cardio bunny routine and start lifting heavy weights.

[–]itstartstoday1230 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I keep trying to get my wife to lift. She has that type of muscle structure you see on soccer players. She can't define it as well with what you call the bunny slope of muscle definition..... Cardio. She doesn't respect me enough to follow me into weight lifting...... Yet.

[–]sexyshoulderdevil75% Liquid Sarcasm0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

You're not married?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

I was talking about past LTRs and my current, 15 year relationship.
 
8 years married, 2 kids. Similar time line and demographics to OP, opposite result. My wife is the happiest she has been since we first met. OP's husband sounds like a dud.

[–]sexyshoulderdevil75% Liquid Sarcasm1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Oh, ok. I thought you were married so wondered if I was mistaken.

I have similar thoughts on this one. But all the backlash had me wondering if I was missing something. I still could be. But Jack10 I think got about as close as anyone is going to get without hearing from OP's husband directly.

[–]Squeezymypenisy-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Lol go to Red Pill Women. Stop trolling.

[–]Redpythongoon-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

Dread him back. You don't deserve that shit so throw it back in his face. Tell him you'll resume your status quo when he stops acting like a spoiled child.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Don't be a 5 year old

[–]alphabeta49Red Beret-1 points0 points  (10 children) | Copy

I read that WTF exchange you had in the other thread. A few additional thoughts.


1) You COMPLETELY hijacked the thread. Solipsism at its finest.

2) Every time you DEERed your way into a hissy fit, you finally concluded with an "I understand what you're saying" statement. Saved your skin, just barely proving that you could handle being wrong. I'd hate to be your husband who has to deal with such a bulldog.

3) You're a meddling bitch. I have absolutely no more patience for your shenanigans.

4) You haven't swallowed any pill, haven't read the sidebar, and follow TheBluePill. Then you have the guts to come in here and stir things up.

5) There's plenty of good advice that addresses things YOU can control and improve. Yet you're still concerned with HIS actions. If he's acting like a dick, I would wonder why he would need to.


I hope this joke ends soon.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (4 children) | Copy

Here is an exercise for you :

Here or elsewhere, list ten reasons why you suck as a wife and First officer.

Obviously he isn't happy with how things stand. You want to help? Cool.

Figure out what you are / have been doing wrong...

why did he even wind up here?

[–]SepeanRed Beret-2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy

She doesn't want to help, she just wants to test his frame to see if he is really alpha or just a poser. This is the standard thing wives do prior to the main event. She just found her way onto MRP so he's in for a tougher ride.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

Aww... well she should still make that list. And give it to him. Because obviously it will have nothing on it... she is a perfect snowflake

[–]itstartstoday123-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

I hope he posts here. All it better say is "well talk about it when I get home"

Texting is for logistics. I think everyone should write something like they are talking to their wives. Might be interesting.

[–]Kale1234-2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy

You said "I would be willing to change. If I knew what to do.". Newsflash it's not about you. You'll find a way to be happy with him or you won't. This isn't for you. If he's going through the motions and doing it for you, he'd be doing it wrong.



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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