Why is it ok for women to talk about masculinity but not the other way round?

LeadInfusedRedPill · 2019-04-24T19:45:47+00:00

Who cares, don’t listen to women on how to be a man.

blackedoutfast · 2019-04-24T21:03:54+00:00

how do you guys not understand that all this identity politics and SJW progressive stuff is really just about power and control. but the only way that these groups can have power over you is by convincing you that they already have that power over you.

all this whining about double standards and why lesbians and other oppressed groups are "allowed" to do something but you, as a privileged white hetero male, aren't "allowed" to do the same thing is misdirection. it's not real, you're just falling into their frame.

protip: there's no higher authority allowing or not allowing people to do things depending on whether or not the belong to some certain group or not. you can do pretty much whatever you want to do. actions do have consequences, so maybe some lesbian SJW tumblrina might start screeching at you. but so what? that doesn't mean you're not "allowed" to do it. that SJW doesn't really have any control or power, she is just hoping that if she screams "you can't do that! that's not allowed" that eventually you will believe her and voluntarily cuck youself.

nothing is stopping you from criticizing some random lesbo writing about masculinity, and nothing is stopping you from writing about femininity. you can say men and women aren't the same. you can show sexual interest in girls. you can question progressive SJW identity politics. hell dude, you can even say THE N WORD if you feel like it. people might get butthurt about it, and they may claim that you aren't allowed to say those things. but they can't stop you from saying it.

the world is yours. you're allowed to do whatever the fuck you want to do. you just have to have the balls to ignore all the people telling you that you can't do something and do it anyway.

[deleted] · 2019-04-24T19:48:55+00:00

if a man writes a book about women with advices or with prescrictives contents (other than "How to attract a good husband"), he would be criticized for venturing into a subject he's not supposed to lecture anyone about

Yeah, it's a double standard. You would certainly get blacklisted and booted from the book industry if you tried to do that. Anyone who believes differently in here is either not tuned in or not being honest with themselves.

This is just how life works. Demographics become dominant at different phases in history and use their power to quash all opposition. The Chinese referred to the entire rest of the planet as barbarians and demanded tribute from every other polity they encountered. Muslims took millions of Christian slaves and forcibly converted them to Islam back in the 1500s. White slaveowners strung up any blacks who resisted their rule. You weren't allowed to even look at white people because "black gaze" and any talking out of turn was "blacksplaining". Even if you were just sitting there, you were "blackspreading" and therefore... evil

And now finally we come to the 2010s and women (well, a strong minority of feminists at least) are starting to try to get their turn on the top of the demographic heap. Of course they don't frame it as trying to dominate society, instead they say they are victims fighting back against oppression and bla bla bla blabla 1000 years of patriarchy bla blabla. Yes, and I'm sure if you go all the way back to ancient China they have those beliefs about their superiority and entitlement being "justified" because reasons. Maybe the barbarians were mean to them at some point and this is all just justice being served. Everyone always has a reason to believe they are the good guys even though in reality, their actions towards others are domineering and restrictive and one-sided.

morristheaverage · 2019-04-24T21:53:28+00:00

You seem to have had a lot of answers saying the same thing so I'm going to at the very least play devils advocate here. In the case of Rachel Giese her "expertise" obviously doesn't come from her own life. Rather it comes from her research into studies and historical examples which she has collected in her work as an award-winning journalist. I think a lot of these kind of books are often written by women because it essentially falls under the umbrella of feminism and academics in that field are disproportionately often women.

I'm struggling a bit with your claim about a double standard though. Do you have any examples of books men have written about gender or femininity that got bad press? I also want to say that I'm sure they're are many rabid tumblr posts and tweets from angry internet feminists but I wanna say they don't count. For every irrational memey feminist there's an equally ignorant white supremacist or other type of moron so I wouldn't consider that level of criticism as significant. Especially since Rachel Giese almost certainly got similar criticism for her book.

Basically I think you're either imagining this double standard entirely or vastly exaggerating it because of a preconceived notion that hoards of angry, crazy feminists have flooded the internet recently. I'm not saying you're wrong. Crazy women exist. But I can't find any evidence in your post of any actual issues.

Edit: since posting this I have bought the Rachel Giese book and read it. It is excellent. I can't see why anyone on this sub would disagree with the core message - that large swathes on boys and young men in our society have a great many problems and issues that society is failing to address. The book is littered with scientific studies that support this notion. It's a short book but very good.

DaphneDK42 · 2019-04-25T02:03:21+00:00

lol. Why would you read a book by a muff diver? Let alone one on men. Incidentally, a lousy boy band called Green Day just released a book on femininity, called Last of the American Girls. Some chicks gave them some flack for it I think, but offerandi will get their knickers in a twist about anything. Nobody gives a shit about those idiots either.

MGTOWKapow2 · 2019-04-24T19:56:50+00:00

what makes her expert on the topic of masculinity?

It is a feminist axiom that the Oppressed understands the Oppressor better than the Oppressor understands themselves. Privilege blinds them to their problems.

GridReXX · 2019-04-24T21:02:30+00:00

Men used to. For like most of written history tbh. You want to write it, write it! Churches do.

gelatofountain · 2019-04-24T19:42:43+00:00

You become an expert at something by researching it heavily. Your conclusions should be rooted in facts that have been properly researched. Done right, the background of the researcher should not matter. I haven’t heard of this book until your post but I looked up the author and it’s reported that she did due diligence in sourcing her information. I don’t know how true that is, obviously. However, writing a book using that manner of research is very different than her writing a book on men just based on anecdotal stories and theories she pulls from her ass.

A LOT of articles etc we’re exposed to are essentially just fluff opinion pieces and it is condescending for anyone to assume they’re the ultimate authority on any topic, even one they’ve lived. If she wrote about all lesbian women based on just her story, it would also be a bad piece of writing.

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Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2019-04-24T20:11:41+00:00

https://www.amazon.com/Hes-Just-That-Into-Understanding/dp/141690977X

best seller, was made into a movie

www.therulesrevisited.com very popular

are you aware of thousands of xtian websites with men giving sex dating and marital advice to women and declaiming on the female role in the world?

what do you think doctor phil does?

Mattcwu · 2019-04-24T20:00:27+00:00

Rabid feminists trying to talk about masculinity sound foolish, most rational people know that. They don't get criticized as much because we just don't criticize women as much. Probably as a consequence of not taking women seriously enough. I don't go to the park and tell the 8 year-olds, "there's no such as double infinity, Brian!"

Boobear3 · 2019-04-25T02:17:14+00:00

I read that most lesbians apparently have higher testosterone than straight women. So I think many of them do have some experience with masculinity themselves, simply by having higher amounts of male hormones and thus not relating to typical femininity.

LillthOfBabylon · 2019-04-24T22:19:56+00:00

Why do you guys pretend anti-Feminists don't exist? Plenty of conservative men talk about femininity. Hell, google Gavin McCinnes. His most famous moment was telling a woman she's miserable and would better off a Stay-At-Home Mom. The Gillette Ad was made by a woman and that caused backlash, especially with Ana's smug face featuring in it.

Can we please stop pretending that 99.99999% of the West is SJW? There's more to a society than Mainstream media.

men should become more like women

Some guys would benefit. Especially if these guys have a lack of healthy emotional support.

Bekiala · 2019-04-24T22:30:17+00:00

My only thought is that often women are the primary care giver of boys so they are trying to figure out how to raise boys to be good men. A lesbian would be in a particularly difficult situation if she is raising a son as she won't have a male partner. Perhaps this isn't the situation for the author though so disregard my comment if she doesn't have a son.

I would find a single Dad's thoughts on raising a girl with healthy femininity interesting.

Bntt89 · 2019-04-24T21:57:10+00:00

Because they may bring perspectives you never realize because it is the norm for you. Outside perspectives are necessary, because then you can contrast your ideas toward the other. Also the reason women get mad is the same reason you get mad lol? But in neither case are they wrong, you need to recognize the faults of both genders you may not realize because it is the norm.

Tbh we need to be able to criticize femininity, this idea of men oppressing women is over in fact died when women got jobs.

ashaw7 · 2019-04-25T02:18:17+00:00

 It seems like writing a criticism of masculinity is mostly about how we raise our boys. It's not a stretch to say that there are more women raising children than men, in both careers such as teacher and psychologist, and as parents. So it would make sense that there are more girls getting female mentorship than boys getting male guidance. This transitions into the point that if feminists want less "toxic masculinity", they should stop alienating fathers. We don't put enough pressure to raise girls into women that properly love and support men as we do towards men to do so to women. I think the reason is that the idea that men are already dominant and in power, while women need to be propped up. I can't emphasize enough how much I disagree with this idea, as people need to be treated on a case by case basis. Men and women both need support.

poppy_blu · 2019-04-25T11:56:43+00:00

1- I just went to amazon and searched for nonfiction books with “women” in the title and there were quite a few written by men.

Yes most are written by women. maybe that’s why books by women sell for less than books by men

2- Men have always defined what femininity is. They have run the media companies that portrayed women, until recently, as pretty, thin, sex objects for men’s pleasure or pleasant, docile, deferential to men. Now that men are seeing what it’s like to have someone else define you in the media, they don’t like it. Karmas a bitch.

3-where does this idea in the manosphere come from that criticism means people are “not allowed” to do something? Were you raised to believe that the world and most specifically you should be protected from criticism? Please tell me why even slightest criticism of anything gets you so angry?

4-does this also mean men shouldn’t talk about women and how they should/do think and act? So like the entire manosphere should stfu?

ItWasBrokenAlready · 2019-04-25T15:58:36+00:00

Because it's seen as pathetic and whiney for men to voice their expectations for women. It's ingrained in our culture for the man to be the pursuer and the women to bu pursued. If a man lectures women collectively to please be nice, feminine and slim it's seen as weakness and inability to obtain quality mate. Instinctive response to lamentations about obese, lazy and unfeminine women is to understand it as sad complaint that that's all he can get. Which brings contempt, riddicule and little sympathy.

Not saying it's a good thing ofc.

diffdedbed · 2019-04-24T19:40:12+00:00

Men read books about women written by men, but its more about sex life and how to get them....

If you want to feel better though.

Do you really want to read a book about femininity?

kandyapplez · 2019-04-24T20:29:00+00:00

men have discussed women and femininity since the earliest writers thinkers and philosophers in the western canon, seriously crack open a fkin book thats not your intro to programming textbook sometime jesus

TheBookOfSeil · 2019-04-24T19:39:01+00:00

I don't see why a response from certain groups of people in a radical minority would make something "not okay." You're allowed to talk about masculinity if you want to. Just expect that those people you're referring to won't listen.

darudeboysandstorm · 2019-04-24T19:58:10+00:00

I don't think this books target audience is men.

TankVet · 2019-04-24T22:27:35+00:00

I’m a veterinarian, I’m an expert on animal health and welfare. I am neither horse nor platypus and yet here I am an expert on their health and welfare.

Is the author credentialed? Or do they just have an opinion?

TheScamr · 2019-04-24T21:18:53+00:00

Women generally have a lower moral reasoning than men, so they are quite comfortable with being flagrant hypocrites. Usually they lack the insight to see how that backfires on them long term ( why don't men want to hire women, why don't men trust/ respect women, why can't I find a good man?)

[deleted] · 2019-04-25T04:02:24+00:00

I'm not saying being a lesbian woman prevents you to discuss about this particular topic

But why doesn't it? I think this is the crux of your entire discussion bro. Why is it ok for women to talk about it and not the other way around? Why do we have a word like "mansplain" and why is it a common complaint that male lawmakers shouldn't be regulating the female body.

The thing is, there might be a nugget of truth that if you don't belong to that demographic, you shouldn't speak on topics regarding experiences that you yourself will never experience, but the issue is, women don't believe that applies to them when it comes to discussing males/masculinity.

[deleted] · 2019-04-25T07:03:56+00:00

Both should be ok. You just have to be aware that there will be galactic bias in it because you want to shape the other gender to serve you and sleep with you etc. But both can offer some valid opinions and hints but you shouldn't ignore the bias. Also, there will be cognitive dissonance in it.

[deleted] · 2019-04-25T10:03:56+00:00

Because muh misoginy.

Boys: What it means to become a man by [Some Chick]

LOLWUT!? You're taking advice on how to be a man from women?

the book explores the male gender role and how it could be improved.

Ah, typical "MAN UP, BRO!" shit. What about ways in which women can improve their contributions in the workforce?

Drippyskippy · 2019-04-25T11:28:09+00:00

Are you going to listen to a man who tells you how you should handle pregnancy? No? Then don't listen to women when they tell you how to be masculine.

analt223 · 2019-04-25T14:45:04+00:00

Because women can complain about the opposite sex and still retain a sexuality. Men it seems much much harder to do so.

Sir_Koopaman · 2019-04-25T15:54:29+00:00