CMV: Women's standards aren't too high. Men are just losing these days.

Salty-Bastard · 2019-02-16T05:37:34+00:00

Everybody is entitled to their standards, young thin attractive women are currently at the top of the food chain and will be for the foreseeable future considering the obesity epidemic in the west. It's always amusing to me how people with power act.

Eartherry · 2019-02-16T05:09:05+00:00

By the way, a girl doesn't have a false sense of entitlement about her so-called value if she is getting the kind of men she wants. What you think of her value doesn't matter. Her results do.

This. Like women are going to take any man's 1-10 rating of her seriously. If he thinks a woman is below his standards he can shut his mouth and wait for a woman that does.

Bigsmell1983 · 2019-02-16T05:32:45+00:00

Online dating means guys are competing beyond their social spheres , so I can understand their frustrations. Where you used to just need to be good enough to the girls around you, you now need to consider guys 2 cities over. So I think in this sense standards are higher.

But also guys are fucking thirsty, there is an entitlement to casual sex that I don't think we've seen yet.

Uncommon_Sensed_1234 · 2019-02-16T05:06:12+00:00

Well if I were a guy I would not date the typical US woman.

Quick preview after he is locked in:

Do more chores, date nights, romance her, provide financially while she never acknowledges it, monitor his friends, restrict his times for hobbies she deems unworthy, complain and complain some more to him and to family and friends about him, stop having sex as much as when dating.

Yep, if I were a guy I'd sure as hell pass too.

DaphneDK42 · 2019-02-16T05:34:19+00:00

On the one hand, from reading the internet you get the impression that all women are fat as blubbering aquatic mammal, and/or purple haired dykish looking. Lazy, with no conceptions of how to manage either house or a family, an exploding cock meter, and spewing nonsense about the multidimensional intra-sectional patriarchy. And on the dude side, we have a bunch of useless pyjamas-boys who would have made their grandfathers ashamed; with no ambitions beyond levelling up in their latest video games, soft and fat and a testosterone level below a third grade school girl, timid and jacking off to anime porn about Japanese school girls. Probably with a cuck fetish or getting his dick locked in a chastity cage. And constantly whining.

On the other hand, the people I actually meet are none of all that. The girls are usually quite lovely, caring, not-aggressive, loves kids, and very pretty; and the guys are usually quite jacked, ambitious, fun, adventurous. This is both in Europe and the times I’ve been in the USA – and the Westerners I meet in Asia.

I wonder if the people I meet are just not representative, or if the picture which are painted online is just a completely incorrect one.

diffdedbed · 2019-02-16T16:04:07+00:00

I don't find older men more physically attractive but I consider them because they whine less.

Woman wants older successful man? How unique and special. We never have seen this in all of human history. The May - December was a thing long before I was born and will always be a thing. Its simply mating strategy being born out.

Women either need to date young with potential, or older with achieved potential. Both have benefits but with achieved potential its established. I think the reason we don't see this as the standard is simply that prior to this century the risk of the older man dying was great enough to even out the potential risk of younger males. This is no longer the case.

If I could suspend the woman hate-fest for a minute, plenty of us are under 30 years old, in shape, gainfully employed, with social lives beyond Instagram.

This is another issue. Women want a man their equal or better, men don't care if the woman is his equal nearly as much. Its nice but its not top on our list. Looks are, and personality probably a close second for most in an LTR.

So you want successful, we want hot. Now if you are a woman who is hot and successful, you are probably looking for a hot, more successful man or at worst equally successful. Well that greatly limits your pool.

Now lets get to successful. Prior to say the 60's, women weren't expected to be CEO's or the like, and women's happiness btw started to go down in the 1970's. They start getting all those jobs normally held by men, there are only so many new jobs, so basically some men are losing those jobs (lower status).

So women in the workplace at higher levels has inadvertently now driven womens internal requirements higher. Basically shes a senior VP, she doesn't want to marry the branch manager.

I'm not following a good essay format here, so excuse my rambling a bit, but lets get back to what men look for.

Successful hot men get their pick of the hot women, and only so many hot women are their equals. These guys are happy with just a good woman whos very good looking and has his kids. If you are an average successful woman, good luck finding a guy better, he doesn't want you, and you think you are better than the average guys below you because they are not as successful.

Basically what I'm trying to say is a lot of women basically price them selves out of relationship they are happy with. As a successful man I'd pick an 8+ who could old a conversation and really loved me over a 1-7 who could do the same and made more money. I don't need my gf to be rich, thats my job, I need her to be hot and horny for me. I don't need my wife to be able to afford a nanny, I need her to be a good mother and wife. Anything else is just a bonus but not one I'm going to lose sleep over.

Now for guys who are either very good looking, successful or both, none of the problems apply. They still can get what they want from women.

But what about those average middle class younger guys? Average IQ's, average jobs, average looks, average potential, average prospects? Their dating pool is far smaller than it was 30 years ago, women are either doing better than them, hooking up with older guys who are already successful, or just playing the ONS game hoping to get one of those guys. Women are available to them are generally going to be pretty ugly/fat or have some other major negatives. They are then vilified by the media and women as being losers. More factors go into it too, but a average all around male gets no support from any group. And thats average, what about below average? At least a below average woman can get laid, even if she can't find a real relationship.

Now all this being said, I don't think you are wrong either. I wouldn't settle if I were you because you can't deny your genetics either. You've put yourself in this spot, and society has helped but it is what it is. There's just a lot of factors going into this.

decoy88 · 2019-02-16T17:46:33+00:00

If men are losers, why do many of them keep getting girlfriends, wives and Tinder bangs? Incels are a small fraction of the population after all.

Is it female relationship thirst? Are women too weak willed to enact a pussy blockade and lock men out of sex/relationships until we improve our collective behavior? I thought men were the thirsty ones...?

The truth is, women's standards ARE laughably high, until the rubber meets the road and they actually interact with a guy in real life. At that point, silly delusions of having a 6' Chad take a back seat to hormones telling her "ok, well i need to reproduce at some point, maybe this guy is good enough". Cue serotonin and eventual love.

The dissonance between women's online dating profile "list of requirements" for men, and the men they actually end up with (ie, looksmatches) is an unerring source of comedy these days, as well as endless fodder for defensive posts like yours trying to justify women's ridiculousness.

If women's standards (as expressed online, in this very subreddit) were legitimate, none of them would ever settle down or get married. Furthermore, their contrast to the much more realistic and down-to-earth list of male standards (don't be fat and have lots of sex with me) is just striking in a way that begs commentary. But I do agree that the men who RANT and rave about women having high standards come off as losers. Mostly because they lack the social comprehension to know that women's standards are not to be taken seriously.

alilabelle · 2019-02-16T05:31:45+00:00

By the way, a girl doesn't have a false sense of entitlement about her so-called value if she is getting the kind of men she wants. What you think of her value doesn't matter. Her results do.

Absolutely. However, this leaves the sizable number of women who aren't getting the kind of men they want, some of whom plainly do have a false sense of entitlement because they are either unwilling or incapable of offering value commesurate with their demands, many of whom choose to vocally complain about their self-manufactured plight.

a-WaltzingMatilda · 2019-02-16T13:00:17+00:00

Put quite simply, just in terms of sheer numbers:

There are more of ‘you’ than men you’re after.

This means, the men you’re after have the pick of the litter, and all of the things you value about yourself are irrelevant to men who have abundant choice. Even if they are selective.

So it really depends, you seem more combative than agreeable, but I admit that’s based on very little info, just this thread. But, if you’re like that in real life, you’ll always get passed over for a more agreeable girl.

You also have to remember that the men you are going for have lower standards than you. A lot of things are irrelevant to men when a woman is attractive. The most attractive, most submissive, most agreeable woman being the ultimate alpha female.

So, really you have a choice. Continue as you are, maintain your high standards and run the relatively high risk of never getting exactly what you really want, and with that being alone or in an unsatisfying relationship. Or, broaden your pool.

You have to accept that there is a disparity and it’s not a conspiracy, it’s just the way a multi-factor system pans out over millions of people.

Really, what you’ve asserted is just a roundabout way of saying ‘man up’, because the right kind of men aren’t falling at your feet.

Fire_God_Vargas · 2019-02-16T17:00:57+00:00

I’m sorry, but I have to disagree on some points here. First, understand no one is perfect. Step down off the pedestal for a min.

Judging from multiple dating sites, it appears to me that every guy has to meet an impossible list of attributes to even qualify for a hello. (Be above 6’ feet tall, jungle chainsaws, ride a T-Rex, make over 100k a year, etc etc)

I’m not tall or rich, but by comparison, the type of women I used to go for weren’t a fraction as accomplished as I am and yet the attitude of entitlement was staggering.

I’m 37 now. I’ve dated women of various levels of attraction throughout my life. My ex wife is very attractive. But you know I realized that isn’t important to me anymore. It’s much better to be treated well by a good person than to have some “hot” trophy wife.

Profligate-Prophet · 2019-02-16T09:12:12+00:00

I am not going to change your view, well at least too much. But maybe you will at least understand why men are indeed "losing".

If you look at the education system that caters to women while men are either largely ignored if not out right discriminated against. Do you just end up thinking "college is dumb" and not go.

Some education systems are trying to reform to help out boys but they can't because feminist groups are literally preventing this from happening.

Colleges are now being sued for being hostile towards men. Tons of title IX alligations are finally being able to be allowed, yes allowed, to be reviewed this year about discrimination towards men in colleges.

Men are under represented in colleges but there are no programs trying to get men into colleges (at least while I was college aged) yet there were plenty of womens only scholarships and programs, now under title IX investigation because it's descriminatory against men.

So, yes college actually is dumb, at least for men.

But you are right men are not only losing they never were taught how to gain traction. They are still stuck. It's so much easier to give up. 31% of working aged men are out of work and dropping out of society and the gap is widening and fast. Around 8 years ago that was 25%. A 6% increase in 8 years is absolutely insane!

I was talking to a very renowned economics professor about this issue when those stats were at 25% he really wanted to talk about it more but it was not only unpopular but met with hostility because... womens issues... all he said was "men need help" and kinda looked at me with sad eyes and a shrug.

I can keep on going about societal issues that will always be overlooked due to our evolutionary brain always catering to the needs of women while overlooking the problems of men. Not because its complicated, but because its so expansive.

_Purple_Rain · 2019-02-16T09:16:47+00:00

Here's my take on what happened.

The average woman's station in life has improved in recent times. While men's has stagnated at best. This is largely down to decades of flat-lining wages, the 2008 collapse, the gig-economy recovery and increasing automation.

Vast swathes of good men slowly became undateable in the eyes of women. And it woke up a lot of men to the fact that women simply don't date down. And that felt unfair for a lot of them, which of course bred resentment.

Add to that, a bunch of rent seekers in the political/media/academic sphere, who's sole purpose is to demonize & shame men, became incredibly successful and influential in the wider culture. To the point where most men are now too chickenshit to even approach a woman, instead taking their chances online where there are out-thirsting women by a huge margin.

Men have shown their weakness. They've allowed an oligarchy take away their station in life without much of even a debate. They've allowed feminists and leftists get away with pushing bullshit theory as fact without any empirical evidence whatsoever. They've allowed their average T levels to reduce to that of the average woman 100 years ago without even asking why. They've allowed their bodies to bloat to the point of caricature. They'd rather hunch over a screen than grow a pair of balls and actually talk to a woman.

Men have become pathetic and deep down they know it. They've allowed themselves to be shamed for just existing. They've bought into every trap imaginable and now are sad enough to even start blaming women for their problems.

As an aside - I hope that men realize something important sooner rather than later:

It takes two to shame - the person shaming you and YOU. Only you can allow the shame in. If you don't feel shame you don't get to be shamed. You are implicit in it. And as a a result you have power over it. Stop complaining. Stop bitching. Get your head straight - even if that means seeing a shrink.

drsx2 · 2019-02-16T05:19:14+00:00

Modern men are weak. They rely on interpersonal relationships for validation, have shit diets and sedentary lifestyle habits which lead to low T and mental health disorders. All these factors culminate in a weak willed guy with limited social skills and low self esteem.

MisterJose · 2019-02-16T09:26:01+00:00

It's all relative. I'm old enough to have met a variety of women, and I know there are women out there that are not only less of an entitled headache, but are actually interested in being good girlfriends and making you happy. So why would I ever want otherwise? I can't believe I ever put up with the shit I used to from some women.

I was thinking about this because of Valentine's Day - A tale of two girls I used to know: #1: Who expects and feels entitled to the guy spending money and going to a lot of effort to make her feel like a princess for V-day, because that's what she deserves, dammit. And don't you dare mention her doing something for him like dressing in a sexy outfit, that's demeaning to feminist ideals. Shame on disgusting men for wanting that! #2: Who was deeply concerned she wasn't doing enough for her guy on Valentine's Day. Bought a sexy outfit and wanted to show him a special time sexually. Easy going, doesn't expect anything, and she's more physically attractive than girl #1. Why the hell would I ever put up with girl #1 once I know #2 exists?

Point is, having high standards is not reflective of what you're actually worth, just what you think you're worth. I would actually say more people out there have a distorted idea of their worth than not. It's the classic trope: Guys want a pretty girl who doesn't know she's pretty. And with so much competition and pressure for beauty in the modern world making the average girl feel not good enough, there are plenty of such women out there, especially younger women.

LeJacquelope · 2019-02-16T11:09:23+00:00

If I could suspend the woman hate-fest for a minute, plenty of us are under 30 years old, in shape, gainfully employed, with social lives beyond Instagram.

And a lot of these men aren't getting any play from women.

The guys who complain our standards are too high are often times men who aren't even at the same level as we are so they go online and talk about fat sluts and single moms being demanding.

Funny how men don't mind dating women who aren't at the same level as themselves. We're less hung-up about hypergamy than your gender is, that's for sure.

What about the women who are not asking of you more than they have themselves?

Uhhh that's a small population set.

I don't find older men more physically attractive but I consider them because they whine less. Whether you like it or not, there are standards women have to meet to get a catch so if a man is trying to get one, he has to meet standards too.

We men have to put up with women whining and crying about the Chads who fucked up their lives. "All men are pigs" and of course "Where are all the good men".

Why are we expected to show you sympathy for your gender's whining but you can't be arsed to reciprocate? Florence Nightingale was largely right when she said women lack the capacity for sympathy. How many times have women's orbiters had to sit there and listen to her whine about her evil boyfriend? It's literally a trope.

Men are women's emotional sponges. And you dare come back with accusing us of whining? Seriously?

By the way, a girl doesn't have a false sense of entitlement about her so-called value if she is getting the kind of men she wants. What you think of her value doesn't matter. Her results do.

One can merely browse r/WhereAreAllTheGoodMen/ and see countless examples of women who aren't getting what they want. Strangely enough, looking at their personal ads suggest they're the ones with stupidly high standards.

FlameBlood · 2019-02-16T05:35:31+00:00

What are they losing exactly?

This isn't a fight you know..

Aside from that, some women's standards are too high. My cousin for example is a big girl, a bit bitchy and not very nice in general (though she has some good sense of humor) yet she only ever expects to be in a relationship with the prettiest boys. I've seen plenty of women who think in the same way. They barely have anything to offer, yet expect to be adored by only the 'best of the best'. And when some guy comes along who doesn't meet that standard, he doesn't even get the time of day. He usually doesn't even get treated like a normal human being then.

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hammerhaunts · 2019-02-16T05:56:38+00:00

If you don't whine, it doesn't mean it's any easier

diffdedbed · 2019-02-16T08:59:03+00:00

So... there's an objective way to quantify this. If your average woman struggles (or says things like good men are rare) to find a good man then her standards are too high. If an average man struggles to do the same then his standards are too high.

DragoonXFury · 2019-02-16T11:18:56+00:00

"By the way, a girl doesn't have a false sense of entitlement about her so-called value if she is getting the kind of men she wants."

I don't think entitlement is based on what is feasible and realistic for one to obtain but rather what it is specifically that they feel they are entitled to.

In this case, no one is entitled to a specific kind of partner (no matter how high their SMV and RMV is), you may be able to land a partner who you believe you are "entitled" to but that doesn't make it any less true that you weren't "entitled" that kind of partner you happened to get in the first place.

Ordinate1 · 2019-02-16T16:35:19+00:00

Of course it goes both ways, but I meet so few women who are not completely and totally self-centered that I cannot possibly agree with your view, and my personal experiences are horrifying.

The worst part, of course, is that they don't even see how selfish they are; it never occurs to them to look at the situation from any point of view except their own.

And then I read your replies to the comments....!

[deleted] · 2019-02-16T16:58:47+00:00

The guys who complain our standards are too high are often times men who aren't even at the same level as we are full of shit LOL

so just because u have a job and can breathe, you think you're near the top percentile of women?

what exactly do you envision your male equivalent?

Tedesche · 2019-02-16T17:08:10+00:00

I don’t find older men more physically attractive but I consider them because they whine less.

LOL, older women whine less than younger women too, and younger men whine far less than younger women. Women are practically conditioned to whine about a lot of things (though not all) in our society. We still raise women to play the “damsel in distress” card, which they do quite frequently.

I think you’re just evincing one of the ways in which women promote what feminists call “toxic masculinity.” The ways in which women do this need to be talked about more, because they do it a lot.

To the other women on this sub, don’t be like this. Men deserve better from you.

[deleted] · 2019-02-16T17:20:55+00:00

I keep seeing "valued as a human being" and its oh so romantic variants thrown around. What does that even mean, and how much weight does it deserve?

From the female perspective and a simple example, my huband values me as a human being. We do a lot of fun and stupid stuff for the lols. He would still be grossed out if I got huge. Very likely fake it and try to get over it, but definitely not happy. Do I get to bust out "I thought you liked me as a human!" over him not wanting to fuck huge? Does it make me "less human" lol? That's friend level stuff. You do have to be more than "I like you as an individual human" in relationships. Likeable human isn't setting a standard and by itself doesn't make you fuckable. Those are everywhere.

I could whine about not being "allowed" to blow up and how my inner beauty should be enough, but I LIKE how how dumb he is for a great ass and legs. And you guys can be so dumb over that stuff. Even better if rp! I wonder how many words of affirmation conversations are saved by them assuming it's dread hard at work.

[deleted] · 2019-02-16T20:00:10+00:00

Women still want men taller than themselves and with higher income than they earn. When will this discrimination end?

Where are the women who see men as more than just ATMs and legal punching bags?

frondaro · 2019-02-16T20:51:51+00:00

I just want to know why so many men today are acting like women are being unreasonable. What are the standards that are too high if I am only asking for things I am myself? If I can do it why can't you?

because the road to masculinity is different then the road to femininity, being an attractive woman is incredibly easy, all you need to do is exist,

it's a little bit different for a man.

i don't think you are being unreasonable at all, but if you want to live in the real world, the road to being a man is so unbelievably hard and long that most guys just give up and don't bother.

this is nothing new, it's always been like this, just with the incel stuff guys who are losers and always will be are alot louder now.

good luck

Lordkeravrium · 2019-02-16T23:30:32+00:00

There’s no such thing as “level”.

Everyone can have standards. However, saying a man is wrong for not liking a fat woman and somehow a woman has standards for not liking short men IS wrong.

openoids · 2019-02-17T08:09:55+00:00

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder

filamilano · 2019-02-16T08:31:16+00:00

There is a literal surplus of young men (105 boys are born per 100 girls). This is why there are whiny men. Maybe 50 years ago more men would have died younger (thus evening the balance), now less boys will die in childhood (because medicine) and less will die young at work (because there's automation+longer education)

Title	CMV: Women's standards aren't too high. Men are just losing these days.
Author	alilabelle
Upvotes	0
Comments	163
Date	February 16, 2019 4:57 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/ar5i33/cmv_womens_standards_arent_too_high_men_are_just/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-womens-standards-arent-too-high-men-are-just.257189 https://theredarchive.com/post/257189

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