CMV: Much of TRP has some of the most beta mindsets and have underlying flaws in their "self improvement" tactics.

MercedesBenzoAMG · 2018-02-23T14:07:39+00:00

Going to the gym is a great way to make you look better, increase confidence in all social scenarios, and it makes you healthier. Doing it for the sake of trying to have more casual sex is ludicrous.

I always thought the idea was to gain benefits from the former, not to do the latter.

As you've said yourself being physically fit makes you look better and increases your confidence in social situations. Not only does this make you more attractive to women (for LTR, FWB, ONS, whatever) but it also improves your social life in general, helps you make male friends, makes it easier to be outgoing, and increases your own self-esteem.

It's a very positive thing.

There are also posts on TRP saying to "stop being a loser: don't play video games, don't smoke pot, don't x, don't y". Sorry but if you're sacrificing the things you like to do in order to have more casual sex, isn't that the most beta mindset in the world?

Eh, I agree you should not fully give up things you enjoy, but I think the key is balance. Telling a man to stop spending all his time staying inside playing video games if he wants to improve his social skills is simply good advice whether he wants more casual sex or not.

I don't think he should give up his hobbies completely, just learn to balance them out with other things that'll help him achieve his other goals. Presumably he's on TRP in the first place because his current routine is not making him happy, after all.

However, if you feel the need to act differently/ present a certain false character of yourself in order to impress women, you've already lost.

Again, if you start off as someone who is socially awkward, you may very well need to begin by putting on a persona. This, like the other things you listed, is not only about attracting women. Better social skills help many areas of your life. Even your career.

This is very much a case of "fake it 'til you make it" though, you don't need to act forever, eventually you do just pick up that persona into your nature.

And all you're doing is taking conscious control of a process that happens naturally anyway. We all develop and change throughout our adult lives. I honestly believe that making an effort to push yourself towards a specific persona is just taking control of that process which would happen either way.

Did you know the word personality comes from persona which in turn is the Latin word for masks worn in plays?

We're all wearing masks at the end of the day. If the one you're wearing now isn't doing you any favours, put on another one.

Why should anyone care how much sex you get? Why should you care how people view how "sexually successful" you are? What's paradoxical is that bragging about how much poon you get impresses no one besides virgins/ other betas who don't get as much.

I agree with this bit.

wtknight · 2018-02-23T14:10:09+00:00

Attracting women is a hobby like any other that TRP men want to get good at, because it gives one a sense of accomplishment when one becomes skilled at a hobby. You might as well ask why not use one's hand or a fleshlight for the rest of one's life and remain a virgin forever. Even hookers aren't needed. But obviously, there is a sense of fulfillment in having sex, and even more of a sense of fulfillment at being able to attract a woman for sex.

says_harsh_things · 2018-02-23T14:42:38+00:00

"stop being a loser: don't play video games, don't smoke pot, don't x, don't y". Sorry but if you're sacrificing the things you like to do in order to have more casual sex, isn't that the most beta mindset in the world?

You think men like video games MORE than sex? Or that they don't like sex just as much?

Everyone has limited time and has to set priorities in their life. The thing is, a lot of guys aren't told that they have to make lifting and exercise and social clout a priority to have women be interested in them. They are told to just be themselves, and that women will come around. So they sit on the couch playing video games as the world passes them by, and then they wonder why they were lied to.

If I told kids at the age of 13 or 14 that if they wanted to get some poon when they were older, they better join the track team/swim team/football team, do you think as many kids would sit around playing games? Thats the issue - we as parents and society tell girls the important parts about sexual dynamics and leave the boys to make their own mistakes. Personally, I think the idea of a young man (high school age) that knows how to interest girls is a terrifying thing for parents, so they shut that shit down whenever they can.

crackrocksteady7 · 2018-02-23T15:04:45+00:00

Going to the gym is a great way to make you look better, increase confidence in all social scenarios, and it makes you healthier. Doing it for the sake of trying to have more casual sex is ludicrous.

Inside every serious gym bro is a skinny/fat beta who got burned really really badly. That is the overarching theme everywhere.

"stop playing video games" is necessary for spergs. if you live an exciting life video games are boring af and retarded. It's a necessary middle step to get you outside doing exciting shit.

Why change the things you do in order for fleeting moments of casual sex. Why not just fuck hookers when you want and not have to be a slave and try to impress the women you know have silly standards?

this is true mgtow frame (not reddit men sent their own way) and this is why actual mgtows think TRP is blue pilled gynocentrism

However, if you feel the need to act differently/ present a certain false character of yourself in order to impress women, you've already lost. At that point you're literally dancing like a monkey to feed the egos of the women you claim you have "abundancy" with.

more true mgtow frame. And you dont fake it, the best strategy is to actually change.

What's paradoxical is that bragging about how much poon you get impresses no one besides virgins/ other betas who don't get as much.

this is bullshit, bagging a truly hot girl is massive social proof in almost any kind of circle. Actually if you flaunt your hot gf to undersexed betas they typically start excluding you from the group because jealousy and crabs in a bucket.

wekacuck · 2018-02-23T14:48:19+00:00

Going to the gym is a great way to make you look better, increase confidence in all social scenarios, and it makes you healthier.

Going to the gym is a net good for the individual and society regardless of the motivation.

Doing it for the sake of trying to have more casual sex is ludicrous. You are literally spending hours a day trying to impress women that you don't respect.

Is your assumption here is that men cannot respect casual partners?

... or that casual sex is not respectable regardless of gender?

If you believe in the hypergamous nature of women you'd understand that no matter how many hours you spend in there, it may not even pay off since there exists a taller/better looking/ charming guy they will throw you aside for.

If you're doing it for casual sex, why would you care that the relationship was short lived?

Scatre · 2018-02-23T18:41:39+00:00

Going to the gym is a great way to make you look better, increase confidence in all social scenarios, and it makes you healthier. Doing it for the sake of trying to have more casual sex is ludicrous.

This is altruistic logic. It's like saying learning more and making inventions is great and amazing, yet going to school to get a high paying job is bad.

You are literally spending hours a day trying to impress women that you don't respect.

Why are you equating casual sex with disrespect? Are you taking a position of women can't desire casual sex? Or that male sexuality is disrespectful to women?

If you believe in the hypergamous nature of women you'd understand that no matter how many hours you spend in there, it may not even pay off since there exists a taller/better looking/ charming guy they will throw you aside for.

Slippery slope fallacy. It's like saying there is no point in bettering your skills or getting a better degree for a job because the company can always hire someone better. It's a logical fallacy. One doesn't prevent the other.

There are also posts on TRP saying to "stop being a loser: don't play video games, don't smoke pot, don't x, don't y". Sorry but if you're sacrificing the things you like to do in order to have more casual sex, isn't that the most beta mindset in the world?

If one wants to sacrifice things to attain higher goals how is this wrong or bad?

No offense but your arguments are just rants.

[deleted] · 2018-02-23T23:46:53+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Scatre · 2018-02-23T15:53:07+00:00

Why should anyone care how much sex you get? Why should you care how people view how "sexually successful" you are?

Ask women

be yourself" is actually good advice. You just need a spine.

contradiction

RepresentativeData · 2018-02-23T21:52:14+00:00

Lastly, TRP has some fetish for meticulously counting up and comparing how many women they've been with.

I understand where you're coming from with the idea of a beta mindset, but I thought you were saying that in reference to guys who don't get results. Who cares how "alpha" your "mindset" is if you've got the results you want?

------__------------ · 2018-02-23T13:55:31+00:00

JUS BEE CONFEDUNT BRI

ThrowawayCactus6012 · 2018-02-23T15:40:22+00:00

"be yourself" is actually good advice. You just need a spine.

The only trouble is that it doesn't really measure or gauge the effect it might have on the perceptions of others. TRP may have its faults, but a large part of what they do is offer insight into female nature which might explain some things to those who may not be able to understand certain aspects of it. What they offer is information, but what people choose to do with that information is their own business.

Other than that, there are always plenty of those who are more than willing to offer free advice. Whether it's the kind of advice offered by TRP or simplistic platitudes like "be yourself," you get what you pay for.

As for "be yourself," I'm not sure anyone really takes that literally. It seems related to the notion that "honesty is the best policy," which many people still live by but don't always follow.

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WhiskersNT · 2018-02-23T17:29:35+00:00

Are you familiar with the concept of first- and second- order desires

trele_morele · 2018-02-23T17:39:07+00:00

The RP is a toolbox. If mating is of interest to you (if you're a man, it likely is) then RP is a straregy you can employ to be successful. There's nothing beta about this. By the way, mating is a primal human instinct. Video games are not.

[deleted] · 2018-02-23T18:00:24+00:00

Sort of agree with this?

It's hard to pin this stuff on the red pill itself as a set of descriptions of how things work because a lot of what you're saying is referring to the mindset of an individual.

That being said do I think that mindset is ocurring in like 80% of redpillers, yeah there's a super good chance of that and you're describing a super legit paradox.

WhatIsThisAccountFor · 2018-02-24T10:04:01+00:00

it may not even pay off since there exists a taller/better looking/ charming guy they will throw you aside for.

There is a point where certain people can't get anyone better. The goal is to be the best they can get. They don't have an option to trade up, because you are the breaking point of who will take them seriously.

If is this is just because of sex, I don't think TRP men expect women to stick around forever when they're just fucking. "cock carousel" is used for a reason. Women will fuck, and move on. So will RPM.

Sorry but if you're sacrificing the things you like to do in order to have more casual sex, isn't that the most beta mindset in the world? Why change the things you do in order for fleeting moments of casual sex. Why not just fuck hookers when you want and not have to be a slave and try to impress the women you know have silly standards?

Alpha/Beta is not "I do what I want", VS "I do what you want" to TRP. Alpha/Beta is "I am valuable and respected" vs "I wish I was valuable and respected".

if you feel the need to act differently/ present a certain false character of yourself in order to impress women, you've already lost. At that point you're literally dancing like a monkey to feed the egos of the women you claim you have "abundancy" with.

I don't know what sections of TRP you are reading, but they do pretty much anything other than feed women's egos. Most of their tactics involve things like Negging and straight up rude/abrasive behavior. Their goal is not to feed the ego of women, their goal is to ruin the ego of women to a point the woman thinks he is more than she is.

Lastly, TRP has some fetish for meticulously counting up and comparing how many women they've been with. It's an admission that their value is dependent on female validation. Why should anyone care how much sex you get?

How much women desire men is a near direct sign of their perceived value in general. If you can easily get women to sleep with you, you are valuable in one or more aspects of life. You are either charismatic, successful, good looking, or a combination of the three.

"be yourself" is actually good advice. You just need a spine.

A lot of people's version of themself lacks a spine in the way it's referred to here. Also a lot of people are naturally lazy, so they creatre rigorous schedules that don't allow them to slack. A lot of people are naturally fat, so they exercise daily and follow strict diets to combat their biology. A lot of people are not naturally book smar, so they spend an extra 2 hours on each subject making sure they understand everythingt. A lot of people are simply naturally undesirable on a wide spread scale because they like things like dungeons and dragons instead of football and exercise.

Being yourself is not good advice if the version of yourself doesn't get you where you want in life.

Willow-girl · 2018-02-24T14:15:51+00:00

When your life revolves around getting pussy, who (or what) is really in charge here?

newName543456 · 2018-02-25T23:03:03+00:00

LOL.

"Be yourself" is good advice? Tell it to Elliot Rodger.

Oh wait, you can't. I wonder why...

"Being yourself" doesn't matter one bit. Presenting yourself as attractive option does. All that talk about validation of opposite sex is meaningless in the context of SMP. If you participate, quantity/quality of your partners is inherently relevant. Otherwise you wouldn't participate and instead you'd become xGTOW.

super_doofus · Tue Feb 27 9:55:09 2018 UTC

Getting pussy's not everything, not getting it is. Telling a guy who's a virgin or has serious issues with his sex life/relationships not to base his worth off of women is futile. I know cause I've been there. It's like telling a poor person not to worry cause there's more than life to money. Yeah that's true but you're not gonna make the negative feelings go away.

Is changing your lifestyle/character to get laid beta? Maybe, but who cares, crippling insecurity is way more beta. Besides, all these changes are positive for every facet of life. How many times have you heard someone say they regret taking up lifting, giving up video games, or smoking weed?

incelchad · 2018-02-23T14:19:33+00:00

The N count thing especially is a sign of low value. High value men don't care about N count because they KNOW they will be one of that womans best.

Average TRPers know if a woman has sex with 20 guys they won't be remembered and thus its an issue for them.

VermiciousKnidzz · 2018-02-23T16:12:40+00:00

alpha/beta is so subjective and such a social construct that pretty much anything can be rationalized as either depending on how you look at it

Title	CMV: Much of TRP has some of the most beta mindsets and have underlying flaws in their "self improvement" tactics.
Author	Scatre
Upvotes	39
Comments	161
Date	February 23, 2018 1:43 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/7zo446/cmv_much_of_trp_has_some_of_the_most_beta/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-much-of-trp-has-some-of-the-most-beta-mindsets.263486 https://theredarchive.com/post/263486

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