Women are partly to blame

Grizzlybear_Nobility · 2017-12-19T22:47:31+00:00

I think a lot of men on this site drastically overestimate women's sex as it pertains to their careers and incomes.

At least three times in the past few months, I've been told that, because I'm a woman, I'm poor by choice because I could always become a prostitute or camgirl, or that I'm stupid not to use my body to get ahead when it's available. 🙄

Yeah, and you could become a heroin dealer to make money or frame your coworkers for mishaps to get ahead. Doesn't mean that's a half decent option.

misunderstood_9gager · 2017-12-19T14:32:43+00:00

It's an interesting question.

I think that yes, it should be illegal to advance in ranks using sex as a tool, because it is a form of bribery. So yes, then that woman is a problem for helping to bring corruption into a working place.

However, it does create a problem. If women would be punished for sleeping with their bosses to advance ranks, how would one make a distinction for someone using sex as a tool and someone who just wants to fuck their boss?

I am not sure if you can get fired for sleeping with your boss or not, I guess it depends on the country :-S

Il128 · 2017-12-19T16:10:18+00:00

It applies to most careers. I've known man women who used their sex appeal to get promotions and raises and to gain favor.

It can go to far though and then everything just melts down. For example, I was working at a pharma company and one of the techs started sleeping with a VP. She quickly got promoted to supervisor, then just a month later manager and then it became obvious that she had no clue how to manage people and lacked the track record to merit such a "golden boy" treatment.

The VP lost his job and so did she.

When it's done right, with common sense, an attractive woman can pretty much write her own ticket by sleeping with management and being patient.

[deleted] · 2017-12-19T16:20:21+00:00

The entertainment industry is it's own bag, but in my experience as a government worker, there's a joke about women who sleep with their bosses.

"Sleeping your way to the middle."

It might get you a minor promotion or a favor or two, but you're not getting to the top that way and any woman who wanted to be taken seriously knows it's not the route to go. You'll basically be blacklisted at some point and never get another promotion again.

Now, sleeping with your boss because you want to sleep with your boss? That's fine, in my opinion. Most of the places I've worked have a hiring committee, so sleeping with one dude won't get you anywhere.

I don't leverage my sexuality, consciously at least. Been harassed and assaulted too many times for that shit. If some guy reads into what I'm doing, I can't help that.

theambivalentrooster · 2017-12-19T14:31:00+00:00

The Harvey Weinstein thing didn’t blow up for so long in part because the guy was true to his word. He gave the actresses what he promised them.

There are women who engage in this kind of quid pro who behavior unabashedly. I don’t think they are the ones complaining about sexual impropriety.

InformalCriticism · 2017-12-19T15:43:58+00:00

Even my girlfriend admits she can identify "benevolent sexism" where men go out of their way to help women, because they are seen as in need. And she recognizes how it can't hurt to have boobs in a face-to-face interview.

That being said, a savvy woman wouldn't want to work in a place that valued women for that, but ambition takes many forms.

This really doesn't apply to government careers in my experience. If you display inappropriate behavior, you're going to hear about it. Office affairs happen, but not out in the open. One exception being in politically affiliated offices, such as state and local government elected offices, where everyone has come together on the same sheet of music in support of a powerful or influential individual whose favor can greatly impact your career.

I mean, does it happen? 100%; no doubt. Should women be outed? No, I don't think so; what people do with their bodies is their business.

In short, feminism is cancer.

AstuteBlackMan · 2017-12-19T20:10:47+00:00

All these women were hiding who he was for years and all of them use the excuse of being afraid.

They weren't afraid. They simply knew his power and wanted a piece of it.

eliechallita · 2017-12-19T18:57:12+00:00

Yeah, it's very possible that some people trade sexual favors for career advancements, same way as other people play on their connections or give the boss kickbacks in some other way.

I don't see how these people affect the MeToo discussion though: These people generally aren't the ones coming forward with accusations, and if they do attempt to log false accusations then they should be treated like any other false rape allegation.

newName543456 · 2017-12-20T00:00:51+00:00

Noomi Rapace confirmed what he said basically.

Do women leverage their sexuality to further their careers? To what extent is this appropriate? Should women be outed and publicly shamed for attempting/succeeding in sleeping with their bosses?

Shamed for what?

For using sex to climb the ladder? Nah.

For using sex to climb the ladder, then trying to paint themselves as victims of some vile abuse, when they were the one to initiate the contact? Well, if you're already making accusations public, be prepared to catch some flak...

PostNationalism · 2017-12-19T17:52:38+00:00

even TRPs thread on this had people calling Weinstein a creep etc

crackrocksteady7 · 2017-12-19T14:31:43+00:00

Does this apply to all careers?

this is going to skew heavily to careers in (((((entertainment)))))

colmatterson · 2017-12-21T08:09:49+00:00

I have fairly strong feelings about this kind of issue because I worked at a place where a woman was very unashamedly sleeping her way through promotions. An office position was even created for her when there was no other promotion left to give her, a completely unnecessary position that came with a pay increase with the only added responsibility of "you're now in charge of this other portion of office workers".

It was terrible. She was already unqualified for the office position she had before the newly-created position, and then she became in charge of these other office workers doing work she didn't know how to do. It was a disaster by all accounts. The company went through, christ, three or four general managers in that one single year until the last one had enough integrity to say "no" to her and fire her for gross incompetence and for offering sexual favors in exchange for privileges.

However, that's just one case. There's not just one reason that a woman would do a thing like that. The problem with taking a hard stance in answer to your questions is that, for example, outing and publicly shaming the woman who does this would also include the woman who was coerced into sex by her boss/es. Or if a woman and her supervisor that had a previously disclosed relationship and break up later and, out of spite, the man claims that she was only with him for job benefits? A lot of places have obvious standards and practices that disallow a couple to work like that, with one being in a position of authority over the other, but quite a few places do not. I've worked at at least a couple places where that thing would have been allowed. Or like you said, the woman who just plain enjoys it.

In that situation... That's just not a good situation. She may not have ulterior motives other than "I fucking love this kind of sex", but then her boss is likely going to be far less impartial with her during evaluations, or he might compensate too far the other way and not recognize her abilities in the work-place out of fear that someone will think she is just sleeping her way to the top and that he's not a man of integrity. If the relationship gets found out, it is undeniable that his treatment of her is going to be scrutinized, all of his and her actions regarding each other going back to when the relationship began and even before then.

So it may not sound like much of an answer, but how I feel about it is that something like that can't be enforced with just a few simple black and white rules. The woman that I worked with, god yes she deserved to be shamed for what she did. She didn't need to be outed because she basically flaunted it to everyone, but ho-lee shit did she fuck shit up during that time.

As far as the extent to which it's appropriate... I can't think of any scenario where a boss and his subordinate can have a sexual relationship that is totally safe. Depending on the way things go, it can be bad for either one of them or both of them. I don't think that relationships are inherently bad between workers, but that kind of thing should always be disclosed to HR, still probably kept quiet and contained only to themselves and their HR representative, and if it's between a boss and a subordinate, they should probably request one of them be transferred to keep themselves safe in case of fallout.

[deleted] · 2017-12-19T14:26:20+00:00

The people who take part are to blame. This type foul play occurs extremely rarely considering the risks involved. The typical person does not resort to bribery.

Mr_Smoogs · 2017-12-19T17:10:02+00:00

you sob... I was going to post this.

lol.

TheBookOfSeil · 2017-12-19T21:50:39+00:00

Do women leverage their sexuality to further their careers? To what extent is this appropriate?

Yes. I don't find it appropriate because, to me, it's borderline prostitution, just with a different payment. It's also not appropriate for the fact that sex has nothing to do with how you are compared with your colleagues in the workplace. If I had worked my way to the top to be ready for a promotion, only to be knocked aside by some woman that was providing sexual favors to the boss in exchange for a promotion, I'd be pretty pissed off. It flies right in the face of the "equality" that women are asking for.

Should women be outed and publicly shamed for attempting/succeeding in sleeping with their bosses?

No. I don't believe that would be very productive in remedying the situation. Both should be fired.

aznphenix · 2017-12-20T06:27:35+00:00

I think some women will do this, but not even like a significant minority imo. tbh, it's a balancing game - some men leverage their power to get sex from women and some women leverage sex to get power. Extra shaming one way or another tips the scales either in favor of bad men or bad women.

sse23 · 2017-12-20T10:38:18+00:00

Do women leverage their sexuality to further their careers?

Of course they do! What you all think they just happend to find themselves alone in a hotel room, with Weinstein and he just randomly pulled his dick out?

abaxeron · 2017-12-20T12:55:34+00:00

Should women be outed and publicly shamed for attempting/succeeding in sleeping with their bosses?

Yes. At least for the sake of all the consequent shit-show of women going out of their way to shift the blame onto powerful men for "failing to set proper boundaries" or whatever.

Maybe eventually powerful men will start setting proper boundaries by pepper-spraying women who inappropriately violate their personal space.

darla10 · 2017-12-21T01:36:13+00:00

I have a visceral reaction to women who do this. I lose all respect for them. When I was in my 20s I was offered many opportunities to further my career using my looks. I turned all of them down. I feel the same way about gold diggers and social climbers and stay at home moms (to a lesser degree). Fuck them all. But I have no qualms about being bent over a desk by someone powerful who isn’t my boss. Why not.

PBRScagsquad · 2017-12-19T14:49:47+00:00

It's probably slanted towards (((certain industries))). Having said that though it is likely quite common. Yes they are partially to blame because they actively create an incentive for men to behave like Weinstein did. No I don't agree with it since they're using it to rise through the ranks on their backs not through any real merit.

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Title	Women are partly to blame
Author	Mr_Smoogs
Upvotes	35
Comments	182
Date	December 19, 2017 2:20 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/7ktit3/women_are_partly_to_blame/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/women-are-partly-to-blame.264432 https://theredarchive.com/post/264432

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