Do you think TRP has the wrong approach for "beta" men?

MissMaude · 2017-12-17T02:03:56+00:00

RPers constantly misclassify omega traits as beta. This confuses the whole thing.

sublimemongrel · 2017-12-17T01:46:48+00:00

Beta/alpha is a spectrum of traits, that’s the only way it makes any sense to me. In order to maintain a healthy LTR you absolutely need some of the “good” beta traits. I think, under this frame of what “alpha/beta” is, the “best man” that most monogamous-minded women want and prefer to be with, will be one who has a mix of these traits, both “alpha” and “beta.”

The reason TRP is not interested in fostering “beta” men’s beta traits is because a) they do not recommend LTRs/marriage to begin with and b) many of the new men to TRP have too many beta traits and not enough alpha, they don’t have a good balance to begin with.

larrythetomato · 2017-12-17T01:59:07+00:00

RPers are all talking about how "beta" qualities are bad and not attractive to women, and "beta" men have to become "alpha" and domineering to get women. While this may allow them to get a high quantity of women, it may not enable them to find a quality relationship, which I feel is what a lot of beta type men are after.

This isn't what RP says, it is more subtle than this. To build attraction with a women, you need a combination of alpha (attractive traits such as confidence and fitness) and beta traits (comfort building traits such as loyalty and provision). What I believe the misunderstanding that you might be reading is because many of the men are so unassertive that they think any show of confidence is aggression (one of the negative sides of 'alpha'). Most of these guys are so far away from being aggressive that what they see as being an obnoxious asshole is "Oh hi John I didn't see you there" to everyone else. Barely assertive.

There are some men who have the alpha side down and if they want sex and love they need to work on building comfort. These guys tend not to be on the TRP reddit because they are already getting sex or are close to it. They would be at the point where they are making out with a girl but she won't let him continue because she is too uncomfortable.

Instead of teaching betas to be something they are not and get all the sluts they want

"Sleeping with any women" is a PUA bootcamp marketing ploy. In reality of course this doesn't happen. Most 'beta' have the comfort side of relationship building secure, they need to work on the attractiveness, hence the gym and anger to make them be more aggressive. Remember that these guys are so passive that their overcompensation might barely even be registered as confidence.

Beta men aren't losers or lesser men than alphas, they're just different, and they deserve to learn strategies that enhance their positive traits.

You have switched the definition of beta here, in TRP betas as specifically guys who are not getting enough sex. The TRP sub is designed around getting more sex, hence the default 'lesser' status of betas.

If you want to talk about alpha/beta in general hierarchies, then yes, there are advantages and disadvantages for both roles in a hierarchy.

they're just different

This is a platitude. Very useful in general society, especially for building and maintaining relationships, but useless if you want to change and improve.

PBRScagsquad · 2017-12-17T01:58:29+00:00

Not if they are actually betas and not omegas who think they are betas. RP regularly brings up comfort game which is basically beta traits to keep a woman happy in a relationship. The reason they emphasise alpha behaviour is because they are simply not alpha enough, they lack too many of the traits needed to generate attraction and handle themselves in a relationship in an assertive manner. They have too much beta and not enough alpha and RP is designed to help them find a balance.

Also what do you think all the horror stories on there about divorce and post wall sluts were meant to do? Teach these guys to start evaluating women they intend to LTR properly if they choose to do that. I will not pretend that by and large RP does promote marriage or LTRs and does not advise against it, they don't and that only seems to have increased for reasons I will not go into.

However I do believe the original spirit was "have some casual flings, build up your confidence a bit by building abundance mentality, gain some experience, that way when you shoot for the LTR you have a greater chance of getting the girl and hopefully not having it end in disaster."

Though I suppose that is the issue with it, people are going to interpret the advice differently depending on what their specific attitudes, beliefs and issues are, hence why there are so many people who argue over what the terms actually mean as well as what RP is or what it even preaches.

notworthmuch20xx · 2017-12-17T01:43:54+00:00

Instead of teaching betas to be something they are not and get all the sluts they want, shouldn't we be teaching them to enhance their skills and use it to their advantage? Should there be "beta game", which is more focused on finding good girls with low divorce risk worth LTRing/marrying while weeding out sluts pretending to be good girls for betabux?

If there was one that worked, sure

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2017-12-17T02:15:09+00:00

no, it has the wrong approach for OMEGA men. TRP is most suited to "average frustrated chump" betas who are alittle too content to go along to get along and who are a little too passive but have "it" in there

blackheartblackmask · 2017-12-17T04:07:04+00:00

Problem is that plenty of natural alphas have been suppressed and repressed by modern society.

They don't want the beta life but have been led to believe it's the moral route

For natural betas that want to get cucked, for guys who think "my girl physically cheating on me is just a minor fuck up emotional is worse" TRP isn't for you I don't believe

Like why are you here, society is perfectly set up for you right now go get em squirt, there's no shortage of girls looking for a sucker out here

AstuteBlackMan · 2017-12-17T01:55:58+00:00

No. You can be "beta" and get women. Problem is she will end up using you for resources and eventually make you look like a sucker in the longer run.

When you're "alpha" not only do you get more women but you get more sex. You also do get quality relationships once she sees you can stand your ground and won't take shit from her.

There's levels to this stuff.

crackrocksteady7 · 2017-12-17T02:07:05+00:00

Beta men aren't losers or lesser men than alphas, they're just different

yup. when their wives are being fucked in the house they pay for while they're at work, it's different

Electra_Cute · 2017-12-17T01:59:44+00:00

“Beta” and “Alpha” are feckless terms that turn into semantic debates every time. Everyone uses a different definition, so who knows what they are even referring to.

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coco5440 · 2017-12-17T02:17:35+00:00

TRP does indeed seem fixated on strategies for attracting very young women for short term relationships. However, there also seem to be lots of guys there who would really like to find a good women for a long term relationship (I'd be in that category). About a month ago I started a thread about lessons I've learned (i.e. red flags and things to look for). The post got hundreds of comments. Some guys found it useful and added their own lists of things to look for and things to avoid. Many other guys called me a Beta (or worse). It was a pretty intense discussion.

Entropy-7 · 2017-12-17T03:23:25+00:00

"beta" can mean doing things for other people's benefit rather than your own.

stats135 · 2017-12-17T04:47:28+00:00

I think it is more an issue of how one chooses to express his alpha traits after acquiring them. As far as I am concerned sex is sex. All else equal, having sex with 10 women 1 time each is the same as having sex with 1 women 10 times . Some men prefer to use their alpha traits to bang 10 sluts a week. Others can focus on having their 1 women fuck their brains out 10 times a week.

Think about "dread game" as an example. A summery of this strategy is that you let women know that if she isn't fucking you, that you (by following TRP advice in making yourself attractive) can and will have other women fuck you. There can be two outcomes. Either the women you are are with now doesn't care for you, in which case you there is no point dealing with a women who isn't fucking you. So you go out and fuck some other women. Or, with the guidance of dread game, the women learns her role. So she becomes a keeper and fucks you day and night. TRP doesn't have a preference in which is the outcome. The only reason it seems that the first scenario seems more prevalent in TRP is that there just aren't many women who are keepers.

despisedlove2 · 2017-12-17T05:19:00+00:00

No one deserves anything.

Just because you believe that there ought to be a beta game doesn't mean that millions of years of evolution are just going to change to accommodate your feelings.

Yes, there is a beta game. It is called marry a used up 30 year old woman with two kids and two deadbeat dads. Or (for successful betas), marry a young 25 year old woman who loves your bank account and will betray you the moment she gets the chance.

Which one would you like?

Sniveling_Cur · 2017-12-17T06:56:26+00:00

There is no "beta game" and "women want providers" is one of TRP's biggest bullshits.

[deleted] · 2017-12-17T09:17:36+00:00

I guess TRP considers “alphas” to be the winners of the dating game and who wouldn’t want to be the winner? Suckers, that’s who.

So go alpha or go home.

rreliable · 2017-12-17T10:00:17+00:00

I'm pretty certain a very large proportion of betas will be happy with the large quantity of lovers and won't be too unhappy about the lack of a ball and chain.

Dubslav_von_Chekem · 2017-12-17T14:06:51+00:00

A guide to beta game based on studies and empirical evidence.

Be rich.
Don't be poor.

ReluctantSlimeball · 2017-12-17T14:40:04+00:00

Disagree entirely.

“Betas” are men who don’t understand attraction. They are in need of RP the most. In fact this is often the one area they fail.

Once they learn Game they are free to live life on their terms plates or monogamy.

caesarfecit · 2017-12-17T20:36:52+00:00

You're not entirely wrong.

My theory argues the fastest and simplest way to get a woman into bed is to get to start falling for you. That means genuine emotional connection. So obviously some beta strengths can go a long way.

The problem is, most betas are waaay too beta. So in most RPer's mind, you need to quit being beta cold turkey until you've developed some alphaness and familiarity playing the Chad.

OP is correct that RP is missing an opportunity - that a lot of men could have great success when they can leverage both alpha and beta traits, but that's pretty advanced game and most RP followers never get that far.

Light--Warrior · 2017-12-17T23:25:13+00:00

There is no such thing as beta men there are weak men who are brainwashed though and conditioned to be that way, here is the thing this alpha bullshit is toxic in the end all it does is push everyone away from you it will fuck up your life the trick is you use yin and yang you don't go all yin just as much as any modern women should not suppress all their yang and become over masculine the truth is more in between and slightly more for whatever your gender is.

newName543456 · 2017-12-18T08:20:13+00:00

While this may allow them to get a high quantity of women, it may not enable them to find a quality relationship, which I feel is what a lot of beta type men are after.

First, you need to define, what "quality relationship" actually means. In many cases, it might be simply unattainable.

WavesAcross · 2017-12-18T08:27:49+00:00

The RP opinion is that ltr/marriage is redpill on "hard mode" that is a successful marriage is far more difficult than casual relationship. That "alpha" traits are not just necessary for quantity, but for quality.

If betas can't even manage casual relationships (in which case in sounds like what you are really describing are omegas) then suggesting they instead work towards marriage is a terrible idea. They won't be able to maintain it.

MrPerfidy · 2017-12-18T11:56:01+00:00

Red Pill shit is just like a santized course in how to be predatory and sociopathic; much of their own behaviors are lauded as triumphant while identical behaviors in women are shamed and reviled. It's normal in the Married Red Pill sub for men to talk about their wives like total trash and for no one to even blink at it. Luckily they treat each other like a gay fraternity practicing cruelty-fetish hazing so only closet homosexuals stick around to enjoy the abusive fetish atmosphere.

quicklogaccount · 2017-12-18T17:21:58+00:00

How about no?

You're making a fundamental mistake, which is believing one's sexual strategy varies with how dominating he is or is not. Half of TRP seems to have this belief, "good guys should date the good girls, bad guys fuck the bad girls, and everyone will be happy". The tradcon crowd must rejoice and experience spontaneous orgasms hearing this sort of shit.
No, the good girl is still a hypergamist and the good guy is still a polygamist. RP tasks upon itself to teach all men, whether they're risk takers or avoid it, dominant or more submissive, that just as women are hypergamous and they are polygamous.

RP "game" is basically "Don't be feminine, be masculine. Purge yourself from womanly goals, they are not yours. Then do whatever you want."
Under no fucking circumstances men should be encouraged to play "beta game", or try to make themselves unicorn hunters. We're already taught that, and it serves no purpose besides making us commit to a good faker or a mentally unstable woman. Feminism's only noble goal is to teach men what women are so women can stop faking by the way. Let RP teach men what men are and we'll tag along just fine with women.

trumputin77 · 2017-12-23T02:40:02+00:00

Actually a lot of redpilled sites go into this.

http://www.returnofkings.com/16837/24-signs-shes-a-slut

http://www.rooshv.com/7-things-i-require-in-the-future-mother-of-my-child

https://boldanddetermined.com/shy-girls/

It's mostly about looking for signs and screening than techniques.

Title	Do you think TRP has the wrong approach for "beta" men?
Author	Theseus_The_King
Upvotes	9
Comments	108
Date	December 17, 2017 1:37 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/7kb2mv/do_you_think_trp_has_the_wrong_approach_for_beta/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/do-you-think-trp-has-the-wrong-approach-for-beta.264461 https://theredarchive.com/post/264461

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