The real problem with nice guys.

TRPThrowRug · 2015-08-25T23:26:32+00:00

Nice guys use female dating strategy. Surprise, it doesn't work for them.

[deleted] · 2015-08-26T00:13:14+00:00

While I agree with all that you have said, the first problem needs to be addressed, going in through the friend zone. They will waste way too much of their life if they are befriending girls that they want to sleep with.

redmachines · 2015-08-26T02:45:57+00:00

Normally attractiveness trumps everything but if we are focusing solely on behavior then the nice guy removes the woman's most powerful tool which is the victim card. Without it, she cannot keep having sex without feeling like a slut. She would have to be more sexually aggressive meaning she cannot claim rape or tell herself that she is still a good girl. Low inhibition monkeys (i.e. assholes) play right into her hand. She can have sex with them while playing the victim card. She can cry rape and tell herself that it is not her fault. The monkey was a "player" and she had no choice.

The nice guy is challenging her sexuality and she cannot handle it so she resort to irrational shaming.

exit_sandman · 2015-08-26T00:31:40+00:00

I always found sexual innuendo from men charming and a turn on. Super conservative women ruin it by thinking its so disrespectful or wrong so a lot of men are afraid to express it

Shutup_Baby_I_knowit · 2015-08-26T05:23:00+00:00

"Nice guys" generally act like pussies and wait for the girl to make a move. Which is really unlikely to happen, especially when they are really giving very little reason for the girl to feel attraction. Passive, boring, shy... these are generally not traits used to start some chemistry. So the nice guy orbits. Falls in love with another girl and orbits her, sometimes for years. Its sad but its really just the logical outcome.

drp38 · 2015-08-26T00:24:30+00:00

Yeah, I agree with this. I had less attractive friends who were not as nice, and often disrespectful to women, get more girls than me. And I'm sure it's because I am laidback and quiet and probably too nice.

exit_sandman · 2015-08-26T10:25:38+00:00

A collection of my favorite posts of on the whole nice guy-dynamic. And they aren't even written by myself for a change, yay!

wtknight · 2015-08-25T23:49:31+00:00

I agree with what you're saying. Women usually find sexual innuendo charming, although depending upon the woman and how conservative she is, you might have to be more subtle about it. Just being a nice guy will only get you friendzoned unless you are so attractive that you can make women actually want to pursue you (fairly rare). Sexual innuendo is how a man of a similar SMV to the woman he is pursuing attracts her. if you are of a lower SMV, however, she's going to find you creepy, but you never had a chance of being more than a friend anyway, so there's no harm in trying it, as just being nice will never get you sex or a relationship that eventually leads to sex.

neostoic · 2015-08-26T02:00:29+00:00

It's not the reason nice guys get rejected. Nice guying is a form of dealing with rejection. It's a denial of rejection. You still have that girl in your life, you still have a girl in your life, your not alone.

Dietyz · 2015-08-26T01:25:06+00:00

Someone said the other day: "If you want a girl for a friend then treat her like a friend. If you want to fuck a girl, then treat her like you want to fuck her."

That seems succinct enough.

It's an honest way to approach a situation, rather than pretending to be something other than you're not. In general, if that's what you want, you're better off changing your mindset to that.

Nice guys are not bold and assertive with their sexuality. They are too laidback, they aren't interesting and charming. They don't create an atmosphere that's alluring and enticing with their personality, and they are timid about expressing their sexuality in the form of jokes, teasing, playfulness, or physical escalation(such as putting your arms around a girl's waist, rubbing her shoulder, putting her hair behind her ear, etc.).

Thoughts?

None of that will help is she's not physically attracted to you. Sometimes, you can create attraction but physical attraction is a biggie. 'Expressing sexuality' will just seem ewww to a girl if she has no physical attraction to you.

But at least by approaching the situation honestly, you won't waste time with a girl who will never want you sexually. And you can find a girl who will.

[deleted] · 2015-08-26T01:00:12+00:00

I think it's really just a clash of cultures. If someone is raised in an environment where being bold and assertive with their sexuality was not appropriate, then that's how they will be socialized.

I think many people forget that it wasn't that long ago that people weren't really supposed to be having sex out of wedlock (including any kind of kissing or touching), so people in some sub-cultures may not be quite as hep as the urban sophisticates and the Sex and the City crowd.

So, the "nice guy" is "one who does not conform to the popular culture," and popular culture sets the standards which starstruck and hypnotized youth embrace as their own. To me, women seem infinitely more malleable in that regard, so their standards for sexual attraction will be based on what they see as the "social norm," whatever that may be.

Villaintine · 2015-08-26T12:20:49+00:00

They are too laidback, they aren't interesting and charming.

It comes down to only pushing one way (assuming the man is within acceptable attractiveness to the woman). Women need to be engaged emotionally. There has to be a push and pull between behaviors that validate them (beta, nice) and those that challenge them (being an asshole/DGAF). Nice guys only push validation and it loses its effectiveness. Women get bored and lose attraction when they aren't challenged.

exit_sandman · 2015-08-26T00:43:47+00:00

The problem is I find they become her friend for the purpose of being in a sexual relationship. Don't get me wrong friends do fall in love with each other...but the Nice Guy is setting himself up to be a friend. And it's not a problem if he confesses he likes her...the problem is he expects her to like him how he likes her...even though he established himself as a 'friend' and not a 'romantic interest.' Also Nice Guys tend to come on really strong and fast...and ruin themselves. They also treat you like a delicate flower...that can do no wrong. "Girls like you shouldn't do X" ...Kindly piss off :)

vinegarbubblegum · 2015-08-26T00:40:07+00:00

There are plenty of nice guys who are bold and assertive. They get laid. There's nice guys (genuine) and there are "nice guys" (the kind mocked in placed like this) and I think you might be confusing the two.

Nice guys aren't weird about their sexuality; It doesn't dominate their lives like it does for "nice guys" who are nice under the pre-tense it will get them laid if they are "nice." See the difference?

belletaco · 2015-08-25T23:26:57+00:00

their sexuality in the form of jokes

Sex jokes are lame as fuck, please don't do that if you're not comfortable with them. You end up forcing everyone to pity laugh.

[deleted] · 2015-08-26T13:05:16+00:00

I agree with you. Too timid. Scared of messing up the status quo sounds about right.

gankylosaurus · 2015-08-27T00:10:56+00:00

I think this is just the Red Pill angle of the same thing that's been discussed the whole time. You don't have to be bold and assertive. You just have to not take sexuality off the table.

As a former Nice Guy^TM I can tell you that it's common to just talk to girls we're interested in just like any other friend, as if to make it clear that, "Hey, I'm the good guy. I'm not even thinking about how I can get you to sleep with me. You can tell because of how much I'm avoiding the topic of sex."

It comes from all the memes about girls dating assholes and hey the good guys who deserve you are over here blah blah blah.

The issue is falling into the extremes. If you try to be "Alpha," then your approach is to use game to pick up chicks. If you take the niceguy approach, then you try to hard to hide anything that could be taken as sexual, in an effort to not be threatening.

Neither approach is genuine. In one, you're putting on a fake persona to get laid. In the other, you're putting on a fake persona to convince girls that you're potential "The One" material. (Not a Matrix reference, btw)

Plus, the big issue with Nice Guy Syndrome is the bitterness that Nice Guys tend to fall into when they get rejected after trying so hard to be nice, because they think that being nice is the secret ingredient to convincing girls that they're perfect for them.

Now can we stop trying to use tricks to make girls like us? They're not animals to be studied and trained. They're human beings.

Xemnas81 · 2015-08-29T01:21:51+00:00

Late response

Nice Guyism has become totally straw manned because the discussion of Beta Game has presented a threat to the feminine imperative. It has awoke men's awareness to the feral nature of hypergamy.

The Nice Guy is generally low SMV to begin with, hence his Beta Game of being Not Like those Other Guys. It's not his fault, he was raised not to objectify, and that if he's NLOG, then eventually she will see what a Great Guy he is, possibly even The One. When he is thus rejected or LJBF'ed/friendzoned for using Beta Game and being low SMV (how dare a lower SMV man try and take a shot at me) then she (and the FI, now feminism) can claim that they're not shallow, he's the problem. Threat to the FI safely removed and betas filtered out of the SMP.

crankypants15 · 2015-08-31T12:48:28+00:00

Former nice guy here.

Nice guys are not bold and assertive with their sexuality/interest.

You nailed it. Once I became more confident and assertive, my dating life improved dramatically. Lots of women like a guy who takes charge, and take charge I did, with no apologies.

relationshipdownvote · 2015-08-26T00:00:27+00:00

Yeah, a lot of guys (including Nice Guys^TM ) act like the reason assholes get laid is because they're assholes. Of course that's not true, the reason they get laid is because they try and they're not concerned at all about other people's feelings. They're willing to make other people uncomfortable or look like a fuckboi as long as they get laid. And if your life revolves around your penis that's a pretty effective way of doing it.

But that's not the only way to do it. You can totally be a nice, charismatic, well-rounded man who does well with the ladies.

NeedToKillTime · 2015-08-26T00:13:21+00:00

I'm not sure what your defining as a nice guy in the context of this question. Nice could be a whole array of different traits: friendly, agreeable, caring, cheerful, playful, etc.

When I think of a nice guy I think of one with positive traits. The traits that make someone nice don't have a connection to making them timid or their romantic success.

Title	The real problem with nice guys.
Author	gavinok
Upvotes	8
Comments	105
Date	August 25, 2015 11:18 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3ieb8u/the_real_problem_with_nice_guys/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-real-problem-with-nice-guys.280043 https://theredarchive.com/post/280043

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