All Pills: What are some "lies" you were legitimately told about the world growing up and by whom? Be specific.

dragoness_leclerq · 2015-08-19T05:48:26+00:00

Egalitarianism... that everyone is equal and has the same potential if they only apply themselves. I realized that it since is a type of modern creationist mythology.

wazzup987 · 2015-08-19T03:42:19+00:00

Was told that a man must earn the privilege to have sex with a woman, and literally no woman simply has sex for the fun of it. If they do, they are not worth my time (lie).
Women only like men who are kind, pleasant and gracious to them.
Women do not like men who exude their sexuality. (lie)
Don't approach women you don't know, they don't like to talk to perfect stranger's. (this is not a lie, but advice that is terrible for men.)

Cyralea · 2015-08-19T14:00:03+00:00

I was told in the past and found I saw through the feel good bullshit just by repeatedly experiencing the opposite and/or observing my surroundings relatively early on in life.

You severely underestimate the difficulty of male courtship. This is the number one thing that feminists and women fail to understand in men. Every woman on the planet would shut her mouth if she could just experience it. You were able to pull through it because regardless of whatever lie you were told, some men still found you attractive. It may not have been as many as you'd have liked, but I guarantee it wasn't zero.

Lie: Women like supplication. You see this in all romcoms, cosmo advice, and from your peers. They tell you to treat her like a princess, without stating it as such. In truth, they want an Alpha to supplicate to her. 50 Shades of Grey wouldn't have gone anywhere if he was a broke gas attendant.
Lie: There's someone for everyone. Women are unique and special, some women like nice guys. Again, media and peers. This is the lie they tell to mask AFBB. That "someone" always happens to be a woman approaching the Wall, or already has kids.
Lie: Women dislike the rough-edged bad boy. Only some women like them. And these women must be insecure. This is the lie I heard countless times whenever my female friends would be complaining about exes and past flings. As much as they said they hated them...they were still fucking. Then when I started doing the same thing years later, I started seeing the same success.

There are more, of course.

dreckmal · 2015-08-19T12:36:08+00:00

That women find sensitivity attractive.

I'm sure many women would love to tell me about how they love sensitive men, but the reality is that it does not turn women on. Took me way to goddamn long to actually understand that.

speed3_freak · 2015-08-19T05:08:28+00:00

Nothing good happens after midnight - mom

Tons of awesome shit happens after midnight.

I need church/family/god in my life to be happy. Screw you, I make my own happiness.

You need to marry that girl. Mom and Dad. Thank god I didn't listen to this one.

MissPearl · 2015-08-19T12:21:29+00:00

Lie: Men are horn dogs who will lie to get sex and lack the capacity to love most of the time. They aren't sentimental and live on a diet of beer and sporting events.

Reality: Men are very similar to you. They may be operating under a different frame of reference, but most of 'em just want to be be loved and appreciated.

When this was busted - first time I talked to a member of the opposite sex.

Lie: If you're just sensible about this relationship thing you can get it all straightened out in no time!

Reality: People are fallible, as are relationships.

When this was busted - High School, first actual relationships.

Lie: You are ugly and gross and nobody wants you and ewwwww...

Reality: There's absolutely nothing wrong with you.

When this was busted - getting out of the weird small town bubble where any deviance including intelligence was wrong.

Lie: It is okay to be pissed at someone for failing to love you.

Reality: Jesus, what sort of self absorbed narcissistic lunatic thought that was a good idea?

When this was busted - very careful parenting that this was weird behaviour around the age of 13.

Lie: Boys pick on you because they like you! Be flattered!

Reality: Hit him until he backs the fuck off. If you can't be bigger than him, you can be more crazy seeming and he'll find easier prey.

When this was busted - Being picked on by 12-13 year old boys, when I was around the same age, did not translate remotely into respect, nor did they seem equip to respect anyone, much less me. The attention might get sexual, but it would be forceful and fail to acknowledge the idea of your pleasure. Much more being the sow in Lord of the Flies, less being a human.

exit_sandman · 2015-08-19T08:32:30+00:00

Me! Pick me! :desperately points finger in the air:

Okay. Now that I have your attention...

A question in advance, though: were you explicitly told that cutting corners gives you bad grades (as long as you don't get caught)? Were you explicitly told that being physically attractive is completely meaningless; even the opposite - that it would make you less desirable?

Your problem is that you're equating your situation (which was actually a pretty simple one) with that faced by young boys who have been met with a barrage of counterproductive directions on pretty much all fronts. I mean, you're seeing your problem: you were overweight, and despite being on some level aware of what you should do (lose weight) it still took you until you were 23 to finally take action. Now imagine that in order to generate attraction, you would have to sift through all sorts of messages that have been part of the 2nd wavers' collective social engineering effort.

women are better than men (this was never explicitly said like that, but it has always been the implied message), it's your obligation to make them feel comfortable and treat them respectful at all times, and to abstain from violating their comfort zones
being a "bad boy" with morally questionable behavior (i.e. not putting women first) means that you're an undesirable piece of shit, a bad person and will die alone and unloved
approaching strange women is bad - women get pestered and harrassed all the time, don't do that
women would never want just sex, approaching them with that idea in mind means that you're violating rules 1-3. Also, female sexuality is sublime and mystical, sex is something women gracefully give to men; and gaining a woman's attraction is something that requires a man making her comfortable, feeling safe, feeling good with him, and female sexual attraction is generated by them having fallen for a guy (and not that women are sexually attracted to a guy and then fall for him - that's only something men do. Women are better than that).
classic/stereotypical masculinity is undesirable, juvenile, destructive, toxic; being the feminized sensitive, friendly, communicative New Man^TM who is a good listener is the way to go
only men are so superficial that they make looks a dealbreaker; they aren't really important to women, only the shallow ones really go for it (and you don't want shallow girls), good^TM women go for personality
only men are so superficial that they make a less-than-stellar body a dealbreaker, being muscular is ugly in the eyes of women, only the shallow ones go for it (and you don't want shallow girls), good^TM women go for personality
being wealthy and successful isn't really that important to women, only the gold-digging bitches go for it (and you don't want shallow girls), good^TM women would never make your earning potential or your career trajectory a dealbreaker. If you want a good^TM woman, it's far more important that you like what you're doing
being creative and intelligent is super-important (being both, I can attest to you that violating rules 1-3 and ignoring rule 7 provided me with infinitely more success. I can also safely say that the women I've dated probably never touted how I ignored rules 1,2,3 and 7, but praised how I checked rule 9 instead).
did I already mention that "personality" is most important to women? (technically, it's not even wrong, however, it's always implied that by personality the "nice guy"-persona is the one they're refering to, and not the "cocky asshole who gives a shit about rules and boundaries" one)

Cactuar_Tamer · 2015-08-19T08:10:20+00:00

That ignoring bullies will get them to leave you alone.

Oh, what a miserable childhood this shit wrought. My dad taught my brother to punch but refused to teach me, counseled me against violence, and basically abandoned me to my fate.

Also: that, given certain easily available conditions, relationships will just naturally "happen" and naturally "work"

Ha! They will not happen in general unless you are proactive about asking people out, and they will not work unless there is a very well calibrated set of specific conditions and effort on your part.

[deleted] · 2015-08-19T03:59:04+00:00

I realize these are very specific to my upbringing, but the big ones for me were that praying and being a good Christian are the solution to all life's problems, and that there's no such thing as mental illness and you just have to "think positive." Both led to a lifetime of mental anguish, a suicide attempt, and paralyzing anxiety/guilt complex that I'm still struggling with.

FallingSnowAngel · 2015-08-19T04:10:20+00:00

If I wanted to go to heaven, I needed to kill myself before puberty. This was Dad's idea. In reality...well, nobody can present evidence heaven even exists. Even if it did, suicide isn't a cheat code that beats the temptation game and opens instant access.
All sex is evil. Again, dad. It was easy to believe, when my only exposure was forced by my foster sister. But the fear of sex was far more toxic, to the point where it destroyed my life. And it was guided sex that's helped with that fear in ways the very best of intentions alone could not.
An orgasm is like a period for boys. If it happens in class, tell your teacher - she'll understand. Dad's advice was often evil as Hell, but mom's attempt to counter it was a special kind of WTF.
Rock music contains Satanic power. Mom, dad, and church all agreed. No Jem for this 80's kid.
The world will hate you, for being honest. Who doesn't believe it? But I don't have enough time for all my friends. Although, considering that my friends aren't fans of me wasting everyone's time starting pointless arguments in subreddits where I know I'm going to be downvoted for it...(I have terrible priorities.)

Despite that bad habit, I've been in r/centuryclub for a while now, somehow. And I racked up a good amount of deltas in a short time in /r/changemyview, despite views that are to the left of most of Reddit.

Bear10 · 2015-08-19T04:38:40+00:00

"You can be anything you want to be!" Yeah, no.
Education is the key to everything, without an advanced degree you'll be flipping burgers for pennies. My sister has a PhD in (in science), I have 2 Arts undergraduate degrees. I make more than her and she's scrambling to find meaningful/decently paid work.
"It's what's inside that counts." "Don't judge a book by its cover." "Men who care what's on the surface aren't worth being with/a good man will only care about personality." I even have a memory of the don't judge a book by its cover lesson in Kindergarten.

I knew number 1 was bullshit by the time I was 14 and 5 foot 4 and it became clear that international gymnastics glory was not in my future. I knew number 2 was bullshit by the time I was 16-ish. I knew number 3 was bullshit by the time I was 9.

We all got fed some feelgood lies by usually well-meaning adults who wanted them to be true more than they wanted to be truthful with children. Do I feel sorry for people who didn't realize until very late that, for example, looks matter a lot for attracting the opposite sex? Sure. But ultimately it's the individual's responsibility, especially post-18 yrs old, to figure things out for themselves/make their own life. Blaming others for our own failures is easy. But the truth is it doesn't help fix anything in the present at all - only taking responsibility for your own life does that.

AmazingAndy · 2015-08-19T08:49:20+00:00

i guess the biggest would be the "model" of what to aspire to. i have a friend who had his own apartment, great tech job, married to high school sweetheart. this was the guy i looked up to and thought i will have that one day, this is what society teaches us to reach for to in order to maintain a good relationship and have a happy life.

She pressured him into marriage because he is non religious and didnt give a fuck but she wanted the ceremony and attention. they are both very late 20s and approaching the time where kids become a consideration. She has never worked and never studied, she claims disability but managed to go clubbing in heels quite alot for a "cripple" and she was cheating on him with at least 2 different guys that he knows of, one was a 19 yr old kid who lives with his family, and another guy who has been doing a psych degree for about a decade and is a drug addict.

He is currently undergoing an expensive divorce and his wife will likely leave their marriage about 200k richer

so it seems like the lessons are
don't get married
It doesn't matter if you have your own place or a good job
loyalty is non existent
cheating pays off.

PostNationalism · 2015-08-19T03:39:16+00:00

the biggest lie was that I am special, intelligent, etc. a natural genius. made me lazy as fuck and with a chip on my shoulder. damn you mom!

wombatinaburrow · 2015-08-19T08:06:06+00:00

No one will ever love you if you are fat. 3 decades of disordered body image later, and I see loved up fatties everywhere.

[deleted] · 2015-08-19T09:27:25+00:00

Sex is bad. At best tolerable within the confines of marriage. Sex before marriage is a sin.

Hard work and being deferential to authority is the path to success.

Risk is bad, play it safe.

It's rude to put your own interests first. Sacrifice for others is noble. Greed is bad.

Christianity is true. Naughty people burn in hell.

Alcohol is evil and you should avoid it. Drunkenness is a serious sin. Guilt is ok. Lying will send you to hell. Bars and nightclubs are places of the devil. Drugs? Ha. Swearing will at least get you a big heavenly black mark.

Girls like gentlemen who treat them like princesses. Men should open doors, lay coats in puddles, pay for everything. Give, give, give. Never take or demand. What she wants is more important. Always.

Monogamy is the only allowed setting. Marry a nice girl to have babies with. Looks aren't important, behavior is. Don't be shallow. Once you are married you will have all the sex you need. Sex = missionary, don't be depraved.

Desire is to be suppressed.

Parents and extended family, church, school. Yes, this is literally what I was taught.

[deleted] · 2015-08-19T14:07:05+00:00

That makeup looks fake and guys don't like it. That wearing girdles and wonderbras makes you a phony, when everyone up to the 1960s wore them every day. There's a reason why "vintage" is all the rage.

That caring about your appearance a lot makes you inauthentic because your metalhead peer group called pop / boybands gay and fake - when in fact, that's just hamstering.

That exercising is more important for burning fat than eating less food.

Diet myths, like that paleo or eating 6 meals a day will automatically lead to weight loss.

That expensive clothing and beauty products are inherently better quality than cheap ones. When NYX almost duplicates MAC at times.

That playing music with feeling is more important than playing fast and accurate. More like #2 is a prerequisite for #1.

That an alleged feminist who rails against plastic surgery but gets Invisalign isn't a hypocrite - when braces are the most common form of plastic surgery.

RPSigmaStigma · 2015-08-19T11:05:46+00:00

That women aren't sexual, or are only begrudgingly sexual in exchange for romance. I don't think this was ever explicitly spelled out to me by anyone, but I've always had this notion deeply embedded in my world view for just about as long as I can remember. It just always seemed like a common trope in TV, the kinds of jokes and banter people make about relationships, etc.

It might seem minor, but it honestly really set me up for a lot of really fucked up views about women and relationships. I think this is one of the root fallacies that leads to Nice Guy syndrome, orbiting, friendzoning (as in, men who voluntarily friendzone themselves), and the madonna/whore complex.

I'm also fairly convinced that a lot of girls grow up with this notion pushed on them as well, which contributes to all kinds of cognitive dissonance in women about sex, resulting in things like ASD, the bifurcation of the AF/BB dynamic (as in, since women aren't supposed to be very sexual, they suppress it, and like anything else that's suppressed, it comes out in more deviant and secretive ways, like discreetly getting gangbanged by the football team while simultaneously keeping that "nice" boy on the "I'm just not ready yet" waiting list), etc.

dragoness_leclerq · 2015-08-19T13:26:48+00:00

In addition to the lies we've discussed elsewhere, I was fed this version of the Just World Fallacy:

Good always triumphs in the end. Evil is always vanquished and punished.

Good people are always rewarded; bad people are always punished. Good people always get good things; bad people always get their comeuppance. What goes around always comes around. It might take a long time, but that always happens.

Was disabused of this in my early days in business, when I saw very bad people around me prospering and doing well; while good men who "played by the rules" got fucked over and used.

Skitterbird · 2015-08-19T07:40:12+00:00

My parents and teachers told me I had to conform. Not "in order to X" or anything, just "conform or else". Implicitly, it was conform in order to be accepted or get anywhere in life.

I struggled with this most of my early life; my teens and high school years were in part defined by an overcorrection against this imperative.

I mellowed out in my 20s. I still do what I want, but no longer feel the need to actively oppose external expectations as part of some grand fuck you to the world.

There's a Bruce Lee quote I can't seem to find right now. Paraphrasing, it's about how you can reject mainstream dogma, but if you go out of your way to oppose it as a matter of course, you are still being influenced by it, at a detriment to yourself.

When you are truly free, you can "Adapt what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is specifically your own."

jayden695 · 2015-08-19T10:27:34+00:00

That only good people succeeded in life, and all the bad people where gonna have to play for all the bad things they've done in their past

grendalor · 2015-08-19T12:19:14+00:00

"Be careful of women -- most of them will want you for your money if you are successful."

Hehe, what a laffer that was, although I was weaned of that one in college, when I was surrounded by some of the smartest people in the world (an HYS university), and saw how people paired up -- it wasn't based on earning potential, haha.

"Avoid the girls who are having sex with guys. They're 'loose women'. There are plenty of good girls who aren't having sex with guys and who want a good, nice man."

I'm not kidding, these are almost verbatim words from my mother's mouth, with my father nodding along. Disabused of this in college as well.

"You're better off marrying a strong, smart, ambitious woman -- you'll have more in common with her, and it will be a better marriage."

This was not from my parents, but from the general ambient culture of the highly successful 20 somethings in the early 1990s. It resulted in my decision to marry my ex-wife, which resulted in a disaster.

I was never told "looks don't matter", however. If anything my parents made it clear that personal appearance is very important in all areas of life, so I didn't get that piece of bad advice that some people seem to have gotten.

In all, my parents had no chance to have a clue, because they were too old and grew up in a different era. They grew up in the 40s and early 50s in Europe, and it was a different mating culture entirely from what I was facing beginning in the mid 1980s in the US. The advice they gave more or less worked in lower middle class Britain in 1952, but didn't work at all (other than the appearance matters bit) in the US in 1987. And I knew that, so I discounted it once I saw enough contra examples in front of my face to realize that they simply had no clue about what I was facing.

MagicGainbow · 2015-08-19T13:31:45+00:00

''Stop looking and they'll come to you'' at first this annoyed me...then I realized from my mother perspective it was true as from what she has said about her dating life, she never did the asking.

ThirdEyeSqueegeed · 2015-08-19T13:52:44+00:00

The indoctrination starts early:

Father Christmas/Santa brings you presents on Christmas - various sources
Jesus died for our sins - my parents weren't even religious but this came from school
What are little boys made of? Snips and snails, and puppy dogs tails, That's what little boys are made of. What are little girls made of? Sugar and spice and all things nice, That's what little girls are made of. - nursery rhyme
It's never OK to hit a girl (technically not a lie, because as far as society is concerned it's not OK, but the idea that hitting a girl in self defence is a morally reprehensible act, is absurd and sexist) - various sources
People always get their comeuppance (or some variation on that) - various sources
Getting your head down and doing a good job gets you noticed (or some variation) - you could debate whether this is actually a lie because it's not stated that hard work and obedience will earn you any future rewards but it's usually implied in the context. I think it's a lie anyway since your boss, partner, whoever, will tend to ignore you if you're quietly doing a good job (one less thing for them to worry about) and only notice when you stop.

There's probably loads more of these, but a lot of how we're raised/conditioned to be a good little conformist citizens is done through other means of manipulation such as shaming/moralizing, using fear/dread, or dangling a potential future carrot in front of you that's always just out of reach. It's also done by keeping us ignorant and just generally withholding truth.

dragoness_leclerq · 2015-08-19T04:12:26+00:00

So we're going to do this again, where the redpill perspectives are met with disbelief from bluepills and the whole thing becomes an argument about the authenticity of lived experiences.

[deleted] · 2015-08-19T09:49:08+00:00

Probably the hard work in school = Get rich in the future

I was the guy who would get top grades, top sets for everything, but it's only these past couple of years I have learned that social skills, networking, having a good rapport with the right people is the most important thing.

mrcs84usn · 2015-08-19T11:56:46+00:00

"As long as you at least have a degree, regardless of what it is, there will be plenty of job openings for you."
Sorry dad, my music degree didn't matter to the well paying jobs, and the bullshit jobs saw that I had a degree and were hesistant to hire me. I do at least have a cool talent that the ladies like.

goatismycopilot · 2015-08-19T13:21:57+00:00

I was told that if I worked hard and got good grades I would have some career success and stability, basically my parents although they were divorced believed anybody could achieve at least a middle class lifestyle if they were just determined enough and I think they believed that things like hard work, integrity and honesty are rewarded. Neither of them made a ton of money but they both have fixed pensions and do not grasp that I don't and will have to work until I am 150. They said super vague things about men most of which amounted to making sure I was a "nice" girl but they were not super clear on what that was.

My parents were really just super naive people and they still are but they are both decent working class people who believe in a lot of myths that lots of other Americans believe. I made my peace with not believing any of that bullshit a long time ago because I am quite a bit older and have been through economic instability, so I am not upset about the "lies" society needs to have lies in order to function especially under capitalism where consuming and idealism about accomplishments drive the engine.

Basically I figured out what was bullshit and what was not on my own as a young adult. I am close to my mother but we see very different worlds, she is still fixated on how things "should" be and suprised when people are assholes. I am happy when they turn out to be less assholish than I anticipated.

Wolfwoodd · 2015-08-19T14:17:14+00:00

I love this thread. We actually all agree that society kind of sucks at preparing people to be adults (and navigating the realities of adult relationships).

wuboo · 2015-08-19T15:18:06+00:00

My parents are huge advocates of "study hard and you'll succeed". It worked for my siblings and I but I don't think it works for everyone. I think it takes a combination of hard work, talent, your social economic background, and some amount of luck.

"This company is a meritocracy", said by literally every company.

"It all comes down to communication", said by a lot of people that give dating advice.

"Women are ____ and men are ____ ", where ____ is something other than a physical attribute.

One that I believed for years was "Just do it". I then got to know some people with moderate to severe levels of depression. I saw how doing the simplest tasks could be nearly impossible for them.

ianiemasns · 2015-08-19T16:18:27+00:00

Hard work in school would bring me success in life - especially financial success. I was told again and again that if I just studied really hard and put in a ton of effort I'd get the grades I needed and be on the path to success. In reality, I found that, more than anything, cramming, abusing drugs and cheating were the best ways to get the grades one wanted. On top of that I found that hard work didn't actually get you very far in the professional world.

This is exactly what I came into the thread to say.

gregariousnefarious · 2015-08-19T16:50:27+00:00

I was told that my nerdy hobbies would preclude romantic opportunity for me, and that men don't like nerdy girls, even pretty ones. I was also told that being prim and dressing conservatively was the way to go and that it would make me more attractive to "quality" men. My dad was a big liar!

Subtletorious · 2015-08-20T03:57:36+00:00

Masculinity is toxic Who? Feminists.

Gifts and subservience will spread a girls knees Who? Mother

Education is all that is needed for a career. Who? Schools

Hard work will result in promotions and employment stability. Who? Employers

Edit: I notice these examples are "advice" which benefited the giver of the advice more than the receiver.

GridReXX · 2015-08-19T13:12:16+00:00

See? Not such a small thing, is it? And I'm not the only one who got this message. And I'm not the only one for whom it took a long time to dispel the lies.

[deleted] · 2015-08-19T15:33:29+00:00

My parents always said the girl was the prize and even told me I have dated outside of my league.

But here's the thing. TRP encouraged to be a better person. Even though I may date better looking people than myself, my SMV is much higher because insecurity is the opposite of makeup.

dragoness_leclerq · 2015-08-19T16:00:55+00:00

There's another lie that is very insidious that people have told me growing up, and I was shamed for it heavily. It's that women necessarily are spenders and have to spend more money than men.

Moreover, that the amount a woman spends is tied to her worth as an individual, to chastity and purity, to being classy. I was called a cheap shoes hoe. Called things because I've never bought organic food. Because I use dollar store makeup.

Because I use home haircolor, home haircuts. Frugality is automatically viewed as an indicator of sexual infidelity around here. As a single or young female you are expected to spend every penny that goes through your hands, otherwise you are damaged goods because you have "low self esteem".

When you are older, however, it is more acceptable since you're a "frugal mom / cougar".

Xemnas81 · 2015-08-19T18:37:57+00:00

Women don't judge men for opening up.

kick6 · 2015-08-19T22:00:37+00:00

you're perfect just the way you are, don't change you just have to find the right one that appreciates your uniquesnowflakeness
you can't meet qualityWomen® in "those places" (bars, clubs)
women are just the same as men, except for where they're not the same, and you should treat them better because they deserve it
if you just talk about it you can fix it
you're not fat, do you want me to bake you some cookies?
it's important to find a smart girl or you'll get bored

Title	All Pills: What are some "lies" you were legitimately told about the world growing up and by whom? Be specific.
Author	dragoness_leclerq
Upvotes	18
Comments	135
Date	August 19, 2015 3:26 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/3hjcs9/all_pills_what_are_some_lies_you_were/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/all-pills-what-are-some-lies-you-were-legitimately.280226 https://theredarchive.com/post/280226

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